Alternate and Sweep picking tips and exercises

[Mechanix1911]

I'm ok at alternate picking, but I can't for example play that fast part in Another Day solo (I can but I screw up), and that fast Metropolis part at 04:42... And considering sweeping I'm only good at arpeggios on first 3 strings, so I need a couple of exercises and tips to "move on" if those exist, and I know there are some. And I'm pretty bad at, like Alternate Picking riffs - for example Master of Puppets and shit like that, it's really hard for me because I kind of "learned" to play almost everything picking upstroke. 

[Marvellous G]

I dunno what you mean about MoP, I can't play that because I learnt alternate picking. Hetfield plays that all upstroked which is why it sounds so cool, with no alternate picking, IIRC.

But to answer your broader question, I guess the simplest answer if just metronoming for each of them until you can go at lightspeeds. It feels like you're getting nowhere for the first few weeks, but it does help in the long run.

[73109]

Not to be a dick, but Het plays all of Master downstroked. That is why it is A) so damn hard to play and B)really flippin cool.

[Mechanix1911]

People say it's easier playing all songs with alternate picking, but I'm unable to do that, for most of the songs, if you know what I mean. Playing Master of Puppets - for example is really hurting my hands, and I'm playing for 4 years.

[jsem]

Down, Down, Up is the best for the intro riffs to MOP. The verse riff I play alternate, idk how Het does it with all downstrokes... would hurt too much for me.

I guess the simplest answer if just metronoming for each of them until you can go at lightspeeds. It feels like you're getting nowhere for the first few weeks, but it does help in the long run.

This. When it comes to alt picking, or any technique, this is the way to go.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I have some way stumbled onto some sort of hybrid alternate picked kinda thing where it's mostly alternate, but every once in a while there's an extra downstroke on accented notes.  I have no idea how to illustrate this, but it's really weird.  Suffice it to say, I go for alternate picking wherever possible, like the one riff form MoP (E-F-B-E-F-C-E-F-C#-E-F-C-E-F-BB).

I also like alternate picking for the arpeggios at the beginning of the Leper Messiah solo, which has to be one of my all time favorite solos.  Those arpeggios sound wicked.

[cthrubuoy]

Isn't the Intro to Technical Difficulties played with Alternate Picking? That's a good exercise.

Code: [Select]

Intro: drums      Riff A:
|-----|---|---|--||----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|
|----------------||----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|
|----------------||o---------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|
|----------------||o-5-----4-----5-----4-----4-5-----|--5-----4-----5-----4~-------------------|
|----------------||----3-3---3-3---3-3---3-3-----3-3-|----3-3---3-3---3-3-----------7-9-10-----|
|----------------||----------------------------------|-----------------------7-8-10------------|

|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------|--------------------|
|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------|--------------------|
|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------|-repeat 1st 2 meas.-|
|-10-----9-----10-----9-----7-9-----|-10-----9-----10-----9~--------------|--------------------|
|----7-7---7-7----7-7---7-7-----7-7-|----7-7---7-7----7-7----------3-5-7--|--------------------|
|-----------------------------------|------------------------3-5-7--------|--------------------|

|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------------|---------------
|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------------|---------------
|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------------|-12-------11---
|-10-----9-----10-----9-----7-9-----|-10-----9-----10-----9~----------10-12-14--|----10-10------
|----7-7---7-7----7-7---7-7-----7-7-|----7-7---7-7----7-7----10-12-14-----------|---------------
|-----------------------------------|-------------------------------------------|---------------

fing. 1  3  4  1  3  4
-------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------|
-------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------|
-------12-------11-------11-12-------|-12-------11-------12-------11~--------------------------|
-10-10----10-10----10-10-------10-10-|----10-10----10-10----10-10--------------14-15-17--------|
-------------------------------------|--------------------------------14-15-17-----------------|
-------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------|
_
\/       | |
|-------------------------------------------------|-------------------------14^12^10-----------|
|-------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
|-17-------16-------17-------16-------16-17-------|-17-----16-----17-----16~---------14^12^11--|
|----14-14----14-14----14-14----14-14-------14-14-|---14-14--14-14--14-14----------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
4  2  1 4  2  1
_
\/       | |                                                to  coda
|--------------------------17^14^11---------------|----------------------------------15-17-19--|
|-------------------------------------------------|-------------------------15-17-19-----------|
|-12-----11-----12-----11~----------17^14^11------|-17-----16-----17-----16~-------------------|
|----9-9----9-9----9-9----------------------------|---13-13--13-13--13-13----------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|

4 2  1   4  2  1
|-20-19-17----------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------
|----------20-19-17-20-19-17----------------------------------------------|---------------------
|----------------------------19-17-16-19-17-16----------------------------|---------------------
|----------------------------------------------19-17-16-19-17-16----------|---------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|-19-17-15------------
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------19-17-15---

--------------------------------||
--------------------------------||
-------------------A.H.--------o||
--------------------14~~-\-----o||
----------14-15-17--------------||
-14-15-17-------------------x\--||



[sneakyblueberry]

That part in Metropolis is so freaking hard!  But working on it at like 70% speed has really helped with my alternate picking.  As an added plus, theres a string skip in there as well.  If you have a means of slowing it down to play along with, its really good.  I still can't get it quite up to speed.  Perhaps 90-95% or something?

[cthrubuoy]

Here's a list of songs you might enjoy that will work your Alternate/Economy Picking:

Alternate/Economy Picking
Racer X--Technical Difficulties/Metal Dog
Paul Gilbert--Curse Of Castle Dragon
Megadeth--Tornado Of Souls
Megadeth--Holy Wars...The Punishment Due
Metallica--Fight Fire With Fire
Dream Theater--Metropolis Pt. One
Dream Theater--Erotomania
Dream Theater--This Dying Soul
Wintersun--Winter Madness
Buckethead--Nottingham Lace
Nicolo Paganini--5th Caprice**
John Petrucci--Glasgow Kiss
John Petrucci--Damage Control
Dream Theater--Octavarium
Dream Theater--Afterlife
Dream Theater--Lines In The Sand
Dream Theater--Overture 1928
Dream Theater--In The Presence Of Enemies
Liquid Tension Experiment--Paradigm Shift
Steve Morse--Tunmeni Notes
Al Di Meola--Pharaoh Kings
Shawn Lane--Gray Pianos Flying
Shawn Lane--Get You Back

And some for your Sweeping

Sweep Picking
Metallica--Leper Messiah
Jason Becker--Altitudes
Jason Becker--Perpetual Burn
Jason Becker--Serrana
Cacophony--Concerto
Cacophony--Speed Metal Symphony
Nevermore--The Psalm Of Lydia
Between The Buried and Me--Selkies:The Endless Obsession
Between The Buried and Me--Alaska
Yngwie Malmsteen--Trilogy Sweet Op. 5
Yngwie Malmsteen--Blitzkreig
Tony MacAlpine--Wheel Of Fortune
Michael Angelo Batio--No Boundries
Protest The Hero--Turn Soonest To The Sea
The Human Abstract--Vela Together We Await The Storm
The Human Abstract--Violent Strike
Nicolo Paganini--24th Caprice**
Necrophagist--Advanced Corpse Tumor
Necrophagist--Mutilate The Stillborn
Outworld--Riders
Rusty Cooley--Under The Influence**
Rusty Cooley--The Butcher*
Rusty Cooley--Dominion**
Rusty Cooley--The Duel**
Dave Martone--Pigeon Walk
Racer X--Frenzy
Dream Theater--Fatal Tragedy
Frank Gambale--High 5

Sweep Tapping(Obviously this will improve your sweeping too)
Necrophagist--Stabwound
Necrophagist--Symbiotic In Theory
Necrophagist--Fermented Offal Discharge
Dream Theater--Under A Glass Moon
Dragonforce--Valley Of The Damned

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Isn't the Intro to Technical Difficulties played with Alternate Picking? That's a good exercise.

A fantastic example.  That song is badass, as is most anything that has Paul Gilbert on it.  He is all about the alternate picking.  For anyone interested, here's a link to the audio for this example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkoPfV5tjWo

Also, when you were listing a bunch of songs with alternate picking the first song that came to mind was Steve Morse's "Tumeni Notes".  Alternate picking the chord forms in that one blew me away the first time I heard it.  Hell, it still blows me away when I hear it.  He's a HUGE fan of alternate picking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76svWOj8B04

[jsem]

Paul Gilbert ftw  x 

[Mechanix1911]

Wow, I'd never expect so many responses.. Thank you everyone..   

[Mechanix1911]

Btw. Yeah, Technical Difficultes helped me develop alternate picking really really fast, like fast in a week... Because I already knew how to do most Kirk Hammett solos, but Technical Difficulties took it a little bit to the next level for me... just a little bit.

I want to learn to play Metropolis so fucking hard.

[cthrubuoy]

Which part? I'm guessing you can do the intro...

[Mechanix1911]

I can do up to 4:30...

[cthrubuoy]

Well I can do up to 4:42

[Mechanix1911]

Can you do any parts after that fast alternate picking part? And how long have you been playing? And what other DT songs can you play?

I have been playing for I think... 4 years.. I can play slow melodies in a really emotional heart-touching way actually, because my vibrato is pretty good and phrasing too... I can play some cool blues too, but I'd really like to learn to do some really really fast licks (like that Metropolis one that we can't play ) to kinda broaden my playing style. I think jazz players are also very cool, but I can't play any jazz, sadly.

And I'm kind of limited to pentatonics and dorian mode when improvising, I'd like to broaden that too... Maybe I'll learn more stuff and actually be better the more I play, I don't know really. But I know one thing, I love to play guitar really really much, and that is, I think, because I love music.

[cthrubuoy]

Yeh. The next part I find difficult with is 5:50.
It's not the DT I've practised most though

[sneakyblueberry]

I can do up to 4:30...

Well I can do up to 4:42

BROTHERS!  I can play all of Metropolis besides that.  Its ridic.  Absolutely ridic.

[jsem]

Can you do any parts after that fast alternate picking part? And how long have you been playing? And what other DT songs can you play?

I have been playing for I think... 4 years.. I can play slow melodies in a really emotional heart-touching way actually, because my vibrato is pretty good and phrasing too... I can play some cool blues too, but I'd really like to learn to do some really really fast licks (like that Metropolis one that we can't play ) to kinda broaden my playing style. I think jazz players are also very cool, but I can't play any jazz, sadly.

And I'm kind of limited to pentatonics and dorian mode when improvising, I'd like to broaden that too... Maybe I'll learn more stuff and actually be better the more I play, I don't know really. But I know one thing, I love to play guitar really really much, and that is, I think, because I love music.

If you wanna start with jazz, the first step is probably just playing some jazz standards. Play the chords, and then the melody. Try putting them together. And then you can have an excersize where you play the 3rd and 7th of each chord on every beat - it's pretty difficult if you don't know your chords too well. It's great for developing as a guitarist.

[dethklok09]

ill share a two exercises/riffs I wrote that should improve your sweeping, alternate picking, and string skipping
--------------------------------457654--------------
------------------------------5--------5------------
----------------------------4-----------4-----------
-7676--76-----47---467---4--------------6----------
------4-----46---67-----6------------------764-----
----------5-------------------------------------7646

                                                                                                                                    tapping section       end tappin(continued on)    
-------13531----------35653---------781087----------81012108-----------9101210---------9101217910121591012-1211109--------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------13121110
-----------------------------7-----7----------79-----------------9-----9-------------9---------------------------------------------
-3---3-------3----3-----------7--7----------7---7-----------------9--9-------------9--9-------------------------------------------
--3-3-----------3--3------------5----------5------5-----------------7-------------7-----7------------------------------------------
---1-----------1----1---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now play this part twice as fast
---------------------------------------9101112
-----------------------------10111213---------
--------------------10111213-----------------
----------11121314---------------------------
-12131415------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------

[dethklok09]

I can do up to 4:30...

Well I can do up to 4:42

BROTHERS!  I can play all of Metropolis besides that.  Its ridic.  Absolutely ridic.

all you guys have to do is be able to do three note per string runs, and memorize where each one leads into. its not too hard as long as you can remember where you are going on the neck. if anything its the unison after the bass solo that is complicated

[sneakyblueberry]

I can do up to 4:30...

Well I can do up to 4:42

BROTHERS!  I can play all of Metropolis besides that.  Its ridic.  Absolutely ridic.

all you guys have to do is be able to do three note per string runs, and memorize where each one leads into. its not too hard as long as you can remember where you are going on the neck. if anything its the unison after the bass solo that is complicated

Oh, its a piece of piss knowing where to go... its getting it up to speed AND tight thats the hard part.

[cthrubuoy]

I can do up to 4:30...

Well I can do up to 4:42

BROTHERS!  I can play all of Metropolis besides that.  Its ridic.  Absolutely ridic.

all you guys have to do is be able to do three note per string runs, and memorize where each one leads into. its not too hard as long as you can remember where you are going on the neck. if anything its the unison after the bass solo that is complicated

Oh, its a piece of piss knowing where to go... its getting it up to speed AND tight thats the hard part.

Yeh, I also know exactly what notes I'm playing... just can't get the speed and accuracy. (I can play it at 80% using legato rather than Alt Picking though)

[dethklok09]

I can do up to 4:30...

Well I can do up to 4:42

BROTHERS!  I can play all of Metropolis besides that.  Its ridic.  Absolutely ridic.

all you guys have to do is be able to do three note per string runs, and memorize where each one leads into. its not too hard as long as you can remember where you are going on the neck. if anything its the unison after the bass solo that is complicated

Oh, its a piece of piss knowing where to go... its getting it up to speed AND tight thats the hard part.

Yeh, I also know exactly what notes I'm playing... just can't get the speed and accuracy. (I can play it at 80% using legato rather than Alt Picking though)

its not the fact that i dont know where to go its that im playing so fast i dont have time to think of where to go.

[sneakyblueberry]

I can do up to 4:30...

Well I can do up to 4:42

BROTHERS!  I can play all of Metropolis besides that.  Its ridic.  Absolutely ridic.

all you guys have to do is be able to do three note per string runs, and memorize where each one leads into. its not too hard as long as you can remember where you are going on the neck. if anything its the unison after the bass solo that is complicated

Oh, its a piece of piss knowing where to go... its getting it up to speed AND tight thats the hard part.

Yeh, I also know exactly what notes I'm playing... just can't get the speed and accuracy. (I can play it at 80% using legato rather than Alt Picking though)

Yeah, I can do like 80-90% w/ alt picking.  I think you've just gotta be able to put the time in and have the patience