Author Topic: Poll: Bush better president than Obama  (Read 23361 times)

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Offline emindead

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #175 on: October 31, 2010, 06:57:56 PM »
If you squint your eyes, EPICVIEW reads as EPICFAIL. And when you unsquint, it doesn't change. It's like, 3-D or something.

rumborak
The problem I have with everyone ripping him is, he is not being dick or abrasive to anyone is he? As long as somjeone one remains respectful in there thoughts and feelings I tend to leave them be. That's how I feel.
If I'm wrong and he has been disrespectful to others, point out his posts and I will understand the abuse more then I currently do.
No. You pretty much nailed it.

However, if PR finds that some posts seem to be irrational you will get ripped.

Offline Tick

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #176 on: October 31, 2010, 07:06:23 PM »
If you squint your eyes, EPICVIEW reads as EPICFAIL. And when you unsquint, it doesn't change. It's like, 3-D or something.

rumborak
The problem I have with everyone ripping him is, he is not being dick or abrasive to anyone is he? As long as somjeone one remains respectful in there thoughts and feelings I tend to leave them be. That's how I feel.
If I'm wrong and he has been disrespectful to others, point out his posts and I will understand the abuse more then I currently do.
No. You pretty much nailed it.

However, if PR finds that some posts seem to be irrational you will get ripped.
That's probably one reason I don't post in this section all that much. I prefer to not be at odds with people if I can help it.
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #177 on: October 31, 2010, 07:13:27 PM »
Thank You Tick. very nice of you to understand my point!



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Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #178 on: October 31, 2010, 07:36:24 PM »

His associations should be concern to everyone.... we are seeing the country slowly find out that "Carter Vol#2"  has never worked, and it cant work.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #179 on: October 31, 2010, 07:47:29 PM »
Tick, no one has a problem with Epicview as a poster, so while you defending him is nice, it's unnecessary. Epicview is making some pretty big claims, and then when people disagree, he's 9 times out of 10 just copying-and-pasting full, unsourced articles that already agree with him and, before anyone has time to actually read them, he makes another outlandish claim that must be met with.

The fact that we're mostly being so nice about it is probably a bad thing, since the way he posts is NOT good "internet etiquette" AT ALL, and most other places Epicview might go would probably bring down the banhammer on him immediately, which would be unfortunate as we know from other places here he's a pretty cool guy.

But it's doing Epicview a disservice to just let him keep posting as he's posting the way that he has been. Epicview has potential to be a much better, more organized and more focused poster who, by the way, brings a point of view that's not often defending around these parts. But he can't reach that potential if things just keep going as is. You telling us all to "back off" is nice and all, but it's kinda like telling everyone to back-off Nicky. But anyway, Epic: if you're reading this, maybe it'd be a good idea to see how some of the regulars here put their ideas out. I think your threads have been causing such a tantrum for a reason. You're really hitting people over the head with a lot of information, without giving people's responses the time and/or real consideration that they deserve.

Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #180 on: October 31, 2010, 08:23:20 PM »
well thanks Perceptual Change... again nice of you, I sense your trying to help and thats awesome, but I really dont see the fuss about my posts?? My views are how most of Americans feels today, my views are not far off from the Tea Party.. certainly nothing Im saying should really cause a stir..I link to articles when asked , like from PLM to back up my the article and news source of why I was stating what to me was pretty much in every news service being reported on..

I accept others views, I only ask them to prove mine wrong if they want to over emote and claim Im wrong ..to me its fun to debate , although I may disagree with people here on Obama, Im sure Id agree with many of these same people on many other subejcts so I dont get too caught up in it all.. we all have our posting style and to me thats the fun part in many ways.

I like everyone here..to me these are fun subjects to really debate..
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Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #181 on: October 31, 2010, 09:17:29 PM »
My views are how most of Americans feels today, my views are not far off from the Tea Party..

Just so you know, the Tea Party =/= most Americans. And most Americans do not have the same views you do because most Americans are (most surprisingly) moderate Republicans/Democrats. The Tea Party only seems bigger because they're yelling the loudest and getting the most attention

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #182 on: October 31, 2010, 09:36:54 PM »
My views are how most of Americans feels today,

No they aren't.

I accept others views,

Not really.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

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Offline ack44

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #183 on: November 01, 2010, 12:37:18 AM »
Epicview, not to say you're crazy, but Glenn Beck would tell you to tone it down.

He's actually made some great points. Let's recap in bulletpoint form.

1. Bush can fly a plane and Obama can not.
2. Bush has an IQ of 148 that no one in the world can confirm
3. Obama has friends who aren't cool.
4. So does bush, but whatever
5. Obama thinks of america as the enemy
6. Obama wants to impose sharia law
7. Obama is black
8. Bush is white



All of these FACTS prove 100% that bush was a better president than anyone in history.

 Wisdom.


 inb4 wisdumb.

wtf is the internet?

Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #184 on: November 01, 2010, 03:31:17 AM »
I don't really care for bush, but I don't really know enough about Obama to hate him, either. In fact, I wanted to hug him when I found out I was getting an extra 1200 dollars tacked onto my tax rebate for being a first-year student.

Also, I thought it was a pretty good idea to hike up cigarette prices to expand eligibility for the SCHIP, even as a smoker.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #185 on: November 01, 2010, 04:28:07 AM »
My views are how most of Americans feels today
No, not really.

my views are not far off from the Tea Party
Your views seem more radically conservative in many areas than most Tea Baggers.

certainly nothing Im saying should really cause a stir..I link to articles when asked , like from PLM to back up my the article and news source of why I was stating what to me was pretty much in every news service being reported on..
Most of the articles you supply aren't from generally recognized "unbiased" journals, but from very biased right-wing organizations.  That kind of evidence isn't.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #186 on: November 01, 2010, 04:32:59 AM »
My views are how most of Americans feels today
No, not really.

my views are not far off from the Tea Party
Your views seem more radically conservative in many areas than most Tea Baggers.

certainly nothing Im saying should really cause a stir..I link to articles when asked , like from PLM to back up my the article and news source of why I was stating what to me was pretty much in every news service being reported on..
Most of the articles you supply aren't from generally recognized "unbiased" journals, but from very biased right-wing organizations.  That kind of evidence isn't.

All of these. Seriously, EPICVIEW is getting shit on not because he's a conservative or his views align with the Tea Party, its the method in which he argues. You could have someone argue the same as EPICVIEW and he would get the same treatment even if he was a liberal and worshiped Obama.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2010, 04:42:10 AM »
Yeah, for example, if I was arguing about whether that Clarence Thomas' wife should be acting the way she is, and that he himself is a scumbag, I wouldn't just find a bunch of stuff and post it like this:

US Supreme Court justice’s wife has leading role in ultra-right group
By Tom Carter
1 November 2010

A bizarre incident involving Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, wife of US Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, has put a spotlight on her activities on behalf of extreme right-wing forces within the political establishment.

Earlier this month, Virginia Thomas placed an ill-advised phone call to Anita Hill, who had testified before the US Senate in 1991 that Clarence Thomas sexually harassed her while he was chairman of the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission under President Ronald Reagan. In a bizarre voice mail message to Hill’s office left after business hours, Virginia Thomas demanded that Hill “pray about this” and apologize for her 19-year-old testimony.

The imprudent phone call, as well as the lurid details of the 1991 sexual harassment allegations, have been exhaustively covered in the media. But very little has been said about the far more important issue: the political activities of Virginia Thomas. While the wife of a US Supreme Court Justice, she has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars in political donations and has, in turn, promoted numerous right-wing election campaigns at the local and national level.

Since his confirmation by a narrow margin in the US Senate, Clarence Thomas, an ultra-conservative who is the only black member of the Supreme Court, has distinguished himself by his reactionary opinions and hostility to fundamental democratic legal principles.

In one of his more infamous and blood-curdling opinions, Thomas justified voting in favor of the legality of military tribunals in the 2006 Hamdan case on the grounds that those whom the president designates as “guilty of illegitimate warfare” are “‘liable to be shot, imprisoned, or banished, either summarily where their guilt was clear or upon trial and conviction by military commission” and that there are no legal limits on the president’s power to act accordingly.

Virginia Thomas is a well-connected Washington lobbyist, a consultant to the conservative Heritage Foundation, and the founder and president of Liberty Central, a newly formed and richly endowed lobbying group affiliated with the Tea Party movement, which backs extreme right-wing candidates in US elections. She has appeared on numerous right-wing talk shows and maintains a public presence on her web site.

There have been no calls by the Democrats or the liberal media for Clarence Thomas to provide an explanation for his wife’s activities, let alone to resign from the court. This fact underscores the deepening erosion of democratic principles and democratic consciousness in the ruling class and in the media. The political activities of Virginia Thomas are without precedent in modern US history, and exhibit contempt for the traditional concept of the independence of the judiciary.

After decades of Washington political lobbying, Virginia Thomas started Liberty Central in 2009 on the basis of two donations—one for $50,000 and one for $500,000—from undisclosed donors. Since that time, the lobbying group has been transformed into an influential right-wing institution, issuing candidate “scorecards” reflecting how closely each candidate follows the organization’s line.

The “Liberty Central” web site advertises a mish-mash of nostrums combining Christian fundamentalism, nationalism, militarism and “free enterprise.” It features articles purporting to demonstrate that President Barack Obama is a “socialist” by documenting his support from various middle-class and ex-left groups such as Communist Party USA. The Liberty Central online forums have attracted the filthiest layers of the American ultra-right. Conversations on the forums revolve around topics such as “America must ban Islam,” “Mexican pirates,” “Marxist Obama,” and worse.

In January of this year, the Supreme Court issued a ruling in the Citizens United case removing restrictions on corporate political donations. (See US Supreme Court abolishes restrictions on big business political spending.) The ruling was by five votes to four, with Justice Thomas voting in the majority and thereby casting a deciding vote.

It goes without saying that Virginia Thomas benefited directly from her husband’s ruling in Citizens United. The decision unleashed a flood of corporate money into a political system already dominated by powerful financial interests.

It is worth recalling that Justice Thomas would have gone further than any of the other justices in Citizens United. In a separate 8-to-1 decision, he alone voted to abolish a disclosure requirement preventing certain corporate donations from being made anonymously.

At the time, regarding Thomas’s dissent on that issue, the World Socialist Web Site wrote: “Thomas justified his dissent on this issue on the basis of reported instances where ‘donors to certain causes were blacklisted, threatened, or otherwise targeted for retaliation.’ In other words, a corporation must not only be allowed to spend unlimited money on candidates, but must also be allowed to remain anonymous while doing so. That way, the corporation is insulated from the popular resentment that results from the policies it has secretly purchased.”

During the present Supreme Court term, the constitutionality of Obama’s health care “reform” legislation will likely come before the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, Virginia Thomas and her lobbying group have been vigorously denouncing the legislation. On October 21, a memo signed by Virginia Thomas was posted on the Liberty Central web site containing legal arguments that the legislation is unconstitutional. The memo was later withdrawn.

Longstanding legal traditions as well as current laws require judges to avoid conflicts of interest. For example, where a judge has a personal financial interest in a case, or where a judge’s relative or friend is a party to a case, the judge is expected to disqualify himself (called “recusal”).

Canon 2 of the American Bar Association’s Model Code of Judicial Conduct requires each judge to “avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety in all of the judge’s activities.”

The Supreme Court has always operated as a political tool of the ruling class. Measures like the avoidance of direct conflicts of interest have as well been regarded as essential to maintaining public confidence in the fairness and impartiality of the judiciary. Judges in the US—as well as their immediate families—have traditionally avoided political activities of any kind.

Because there is no higher court in the US than the Supreme Court, there is nowhere to appeal if a Supreme Court Justice refuses to recuse himself. The Supreme Court has previously relied on “historic practice” and the discretion of its individual members to prevent the “appearance of impropriety.”

The recent revelations reflect only the latest events in the protracted breakdown of democratic traditions within the political establishment, facilitated by both parties of big business—the Democrats and Republicans. The powers of the government to torture and assassinate, conduct domestic spying, restrict freedom of speech and association, and conduct itself in secret are being expanded. At the same time, the right to free speech, the right to vote, the right to privacy, and the right to be free from illegal searches and seizures are under relentless attack.

The media or Democratic Party will conduct no serious fight in defense of the democratic principles flouted by the conduct of Clarence Thomas and his wife.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and it had been revealed that, say, the spouse of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, one of the liberal justices, was engaged in political lobbying, there would have been a deafening media outcry for her resignation. The fact that the Democrats will not lift a finger against Thomas underscores the total prostration and indifference of liberalism to the steady march to the right by the political establishment and its abandonment of democratic principles.

The “Ginni” Thomas revelations call into question a host of decisions since his appointment in 1991 in which Justice Thomas had a clear conflict of interest and in which he cast a deciding vote in a 5-4 decision.

Most importantly, the revelations call into question the 2000 Bush v. Gore decision, in which a right-wing majority of judges on the Supreme Court, including Clarence Thomas, called a halt to the counting of election ballots and installed George W. Bush as president. Even at that time, Virginia Thomas was an influential lobbyist and directly benefited from the theft of the election by her husband.

While Clarence Thomas is perhaps the most shameless exemplar of the breakdown of judicial ethics, he is by no means alone. In 2004, Justice Antonin Scalia went on a private duck-hunting outing with Vice President Dick Cheney while Cheney was a named party in a case before the Supreme Court. (See Supreme Court Justice Scalia’s hunting trip with Cheney: the political and constitutional issues.) Scalia refused to recuse himself. It is worth recalling that Scalia received unanimous support from the Senate—including 47 Democrats—in 1986.

The “Ginni” Thomas affair exposes the extent to which once-venerated democratic legal traditions are presently being thrown overboard like so much dead weight.

(The Article, by the way, is from a Socialist website)

Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #188 on: November 01, 2010, 08:37:43 AM »
My views are how most of Americans feels today
No, not really.

my views are not far off from the Tea Party
Your views seem more radically conservative in many areas than most Tea Baggers.

certainly nothing Im saying should really cause a stir..I link to articles when asked , like from PLM to back up my the article and news source of why I was stating what to me was pretty much in every news service being reported on..
Most of the articles you supply aren't from generally recognized "unbiased" journals, but from very biased right-wing organizations.  That kind of evidence isn't.




Not really..and its the Tea Party..my views are are from various surces, and if you want to debate my views, simply link to a valid source that can prove otherwise.


should I use the Huffington Post for valid  sourcing? LOL , I actually use very valid sources, tell me which you disgree on?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 10:19:17 AM by EPICVIEW »
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #189 on: November 01, 2010, 08:44:26 AM »
For me, I'd just like to see less info-dumping on your part and more of a dialog. It seems like you get so caught up in how fast people are replying to you that you just scrounge up as many links as you can and then copy and paste them onto here. And then when someone responds? You answer with another copy and pasted article. You might be received a bit better if you actually reason through things, respond to other points in a way that shows you care a little bit about what other people are saying, etc. Like I said, you'll see how things go when you check out some of the regulars here a bit more.

You don't have to listen to me, but I think people would be more receptive of you if you did things that way.

Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #190 on: November 01, 2010, 08:49:16 AM »
guys.. when I try use quotes here , I have a tech issue where to bottom of the typing box is out of view, that why I make so many typos..does anyone else have that tech issue? its when the person im quoting had a long post, then its worse, and the whole box jumps around.

Honestly, It really look to me like Ive touched a nerve on the Obama zealots, nothing more,.. but if ripping on me is the only way to refute my posts, then thats ok too. what is the worst is that some of you are saying things that are not very nice, or things I dont say..and never would.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 11:34:31 AM by EPICVIEW »
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Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #191 on: November 01, 2010, 08:51:48 AM »
For me, I'd just like to see less info-dumping on your part and more of a dialog. It seems like you get so caught up in how fast people are replying to you that you just scrounge up as many links as you can and then copy and paste them onto here. And then when someone responds? You answer with another copy and pasted article. You might be received a bit better if you actually reason through things, respond to other points in a way that shows you care a little bit about what other people are saying, etc. Like I said, you'll see how things go when you check out some of the regulars here a bit more.

You don't have to listen to me, but I think people would be more receptive of you if you did things that way.

I think what you say has some merit..and YOU are VERY NICE!!! PLM asked for PROOF, so I pasted the articles as a form of proof, I usually ask the questioner to "find the info themselves" only so they can find it from a source they feel is objective. Sometimes I paste the article jus because I want to share it, or I dont have the time to type it all out..
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 11:35:21 AM by EPICVIEW »
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Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #192 on: November 01, 2010, 09:00:00 AM »
and Perpetual Change,

I had no issue with your pasting that article..I read it, I dont agree with it, but I read it .

I had read earlier his wife called Anita Hill again requesting she retract her allegations, timing of your article is good as we will be seeing lots of issues of voter fraud coming tomorrow
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #193 on: November 01, 2010, 09:03:23 AM »

Honestly, It really look to me like Ive touched a nerve on the Obama zelots, nothing more,..


I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a single Obama zealot, let alone a "zelot" on this forum.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #194 on: November 01, 2010, 09:05:41 AM »
Dude, there really are no Obama zealots here.  At this point, I doubt he'd get 5 votes from DTF's P/R posters.

As for your articles, part of the problem is that you're posting opinion pieces from pundits and trying to pass them off as credible sources.  Chain mails and blogs don't cut it.  If your positions are sound, then you shouldn't have any trouble finding valid sources to back them up.  
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Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #195 on: November 01, 2010, 09:21:23 AM »

Honestly, It really look to me like Ive touched a nerve on the Obama zelots, nothing more,..


I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a single Obama zealot, let alone a "zelot" on this forum.

it would be harder to find a fan of GWB I think..LOL. I sense that if I was ripping GWB that I'd be more welcomed. When I read that people think my "sources are no good" that tells me a lot. LOL. That means they love Obama but have no comeback to my concerns on his overt radical ties, and they wont even aknoledge his own words and associations..
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 10:17:32 AM by EPICVIEW »
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Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #196 on: November 01, 2010, 09:24:05 AM »
Dude, there really are no Obama zealots here.  At this point, I doubt he'd get 5 votes from DTF's P/R posters.

As for your articles, part of the problem is that you're posting opinion pieces from pundits and trying to pass them off as credible sources.  Chain mails and blogs don't cut it.  If your positions are sound, then you shouldn't have any trouble finding valid sources to back them up.  

I agree.. but now show me one chain letter or blog that I have posted too?

EB, tell me of the ones that you think I have not backed up and I will RE-back it up, no problem

Good to hear Obama is not popular here, but Im not sure Im sensing that.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 10:16:42 AM by EPICVIEW »
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Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #197 on: November 01, 2010, 10:17:29 AM »
Dude, there really are no Obama zealots here.  At this point, I doubt he'd get 5 votes from DTF's P/R posters.

Assuming he runs for re-election (which he most likely will), I'll still vote for him. I've yet to see any GOP candidate I agree remotely with.

And let's face it, a lot of the problem is Congress, not him.

And when the GOP controlled Congress fails to deliver on their promises, we'll be in an equal and opposite situation in two years (physics applies to politics too)

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #198 on: November 01, 2010, 10:29:16 AM »
should I use the Huffington Post for valid  sourcing?
Probably not for most things, no.  I read it from time to time, but they are a little too liberal for me to read regularly.  However, they are left-leaning journalists, not just left-wing blowhards (sometimes, at least).
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Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #199 on: November 01, 2010, 11:00:19 AM »
should I use the Huffington Post for valid  sourcing?
Probably not for most things, no.  I read it from time to time, but they are a little too liberal for me to read regularly.  However, they are left-leaning journalists, not just left-wing blowhards (sometimes, at least).


so what is truly objective? I ask that ... as you have claimed that I am not objective, and that my linked sources for news ( when ask to prove why I have the views I have) would you say are acceptable?
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Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #200 on: November 01, 2010, 11:29:55 AM »
should I use the Huffington Post for valid  sourcing?
Probably not for most things, no.  I read it from time to time, but they are a little too liberal for me to read regularly.  However, they are left-leaning journalists, not just left-wing blowhards (sometimes, at least).


so what is truly objective? I ask that ... as you have claimed that I am not objective, and that my linked sources for news ( when ask to prove why I have the views I have) would you say are acceptable?
There is no objectivity in journalism. Period. Left or Right, they all have their biases and will write stories according to them and hope to sink their teeth into people willing to believe in either side.

The best you can do is to read a bit of everything and take the small 1%'s of truth that exist in them and try to piece something together that resembles the whole truth. There is no one source that is objective at all.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #201 on: November 01, 2010, 11:34:15 AM »
should I use the Huffington Post for valid  sourcing?
Probably not for most things, no.  I read it from time to time, but they are a little too liberal for me to read regularly.  However, they are left-leaning journalists, not just left-wing blowhards (sometimes, at least).


so what is truly objective? I ask that ... as you have claimed that I am not objective, and that my linked sources for news ( when ask to prove why I have the views I have) would you say are acceptable?

Any given day,  all of them.  Or none of them.  It's just a matter of recognizing if they're trying to inform you or persuade you.  I've actually seen reasonable journalism from FOX once or twice. 

My home page has feeds from CNN, Reuters, FOX, and 10 or so rotating stories from all sources as selected by Google.  I think Reuters tends to do a good job.  Most of the particularly good or bad stories come from the Google Top Stories thing.  It's always an interesting mix:
Quote
What's at stake in the House: Hostility 'on nitroglycerin'
CNN - all 5184 related »

Saudi Arabia's shadowy connection
BBC News - all 8337 related »

Death Toll Higher in Baghdad Church Attack
Voice of America - all 1588 related »

Election Fraud Charges Swirl Even Before Election Day
ABC News - all 415 related »

Former Rep. Condit Testifies In Levy Murder Trial
NPR - all 298 related »

Brazil Stocks Open Higher As Rousseff Win Reinforces Risk Appetite
Wall Street Journal - all 1861 related »

Rubio coasts into Election Day in Fla. Senate race
MiamiHerald.com - all 1346 related »

The year is 2020: What's happening with marijuana?
Washington Post - all 669 related »

O'Donnell has trouble airing 30-minute TV ad in Delaware
Washington Post - all 73 related »
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

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Re: Poll: Bush better president than Obama
« Reply #202 on: November 01, 2010, 11:38:33 AM »
EB,
it would be interesting to see where we all get our news from, has that thread been done?
"its so relieving to know that your leaving as soon as you get paid, Its so relaxing to know that your asking now that you got your way"