Something that bothers me about Petrucci's integrity...

[bosk1]

We need to be worried about the creativity of Petrucci's lyrics.

No, we really don't.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

We need to be worried about the creativity of Petrucci's lyrics.

No, we really don't.

You're probably right.

[ZKX-2099]

I think the events of the last few months should give him at least one song.

[bosk1]

I heard they're writing a song called "Master, Passion, Greed" where John Myung will sing lead vocals.

[YtseBitsySpider]

I heard they're writing a song called "Master, Passion, Greed" where John Myung will sing lead vocals.

So it's an instrumental then?

[MykeHavoc]

Eh, I can understand where some may get tiffed, but I personally don't care, especially seeing how lousy these lyrics in question turned out

When I write, I take fairly direct inspiration from art, books, film etc. and I make a point to analyze it, keep it's core, and then get descriptive in my own way. I'm adamant about keeping a direct quote or two intact as an actual homage to the original source in question, but anything over that is a bit much. I tend to stick to a few intensely poetic and memorable parts that usually help to highlight those themes in question. I'm open about the inspiration. Not ashamed about what I pull influence from. If anything, I'd much rather embrace it.

[Jarlaxle]

If everything ever created had to acknowledge its inspirations and sources then like 85% of fantasy genre books would need to pay homage to JRR Tolkien. So I don't see the big deal.

[dedSurroun]

So, I've been thinking about this since SC was released in 2007.  We all know how Petrucci basically ripped all his lyrics from other sources.  You can read about the origins of ItPoE, Forsaken, and TDEN here: https://faq.dtnorway.com/category/12#1099

When I got around to watching the SC documentary that came with the bonus edition, I was slightly unnerved that Petrucci made absolutely no reference to these sources at all.  In fact, he even CLAIMED that he came up with this stuff, and took the credit for it.  Even when MP complimented him on writing "bad-ass" lyrics for ItPoE, Petrucci just sort of shrugged it off...

It wasn't until several months later that Petrucci confirmed that he based ItPoE off a manga, but still made no reference to the influences for Forsaken and TDEN...which leads me to believe that JP wanted to cover up for his "plagarism" that fans began to take notice of...

I've been sort of shaken since.  He is definitely a hero, and this (if true) has the power to devastate me and my respect for him as a creative artist...

I think this is an overreaction - and jump to conclusion on Petrucci trying to "cover up" his plagarism (if you can really call it that).

I mean, really? Worried about his integrity? Devastating effect?

How much was actually plagarized? Can you even call it that? It's like a re-write or something. Either way, it's not a big deal and as someone already pointed out, the lyrics didn't come out that good, either. It's not like Petrucci was an amazing lyricist anyway. A bunch of great songs but overall, a tad bit overrated. Is he done creatively? Way too soon to tell but past few albums have been sorely lacking.

[GuineaPig]

This is true.  Iron Maiden wrote a song about Dune, admitted it, didn't get sued or anything, just weren't allowed to call the song "Dune."  Still not something I'm a huge fan of.

Iron Maiden wrote plenty of songs that are completely based on other things without given them any credit. Most notably, like half of their songs.

What?? Iron Maiden has always acknowledged their influences. That is one of the things that does give them integrity. Maybe not citing them on the CD sleeve, but Steve Harris has always been frank about where he gets his ideas from.

What? Most of those songs aren't credited in the album.

I knew that the lines they took direct from the poem on "Rime..." were quoted and sourced.

[emindead]

Not a big deal.  John Myung lifted the lyrics to Learning To Live from Ayn Rand.

The 'No time for pain/No energy for anger' part? That's the Rand reference right?

     The beams and girders of the Rearden Metal bridge were coming daily out of the rolling mills, and were being shipped to the site of the John Galt Line, where the first shapes of green-blue metal, swung into space to span the canyon, glittered in the first rays of the spring sun. He had no time for pain, no energy for anger. Within a few weeks, it was over; the blinding stabs of hatred ceased and did not return.
     He was back in confident self-control on the evening when he telephoned Eddie Willers. “Eddie, I’m in New York, at the Wayne-Falkland. Come to have breakfast with me tomorrow morning. There’s something I’d like to discuss with you.”

There you go. It was kinda cool while I was reading through those lines.

[Ħ]

So far the thing most people have done is redirect the attention from the uncredited sources of Petrucci's lyrics to the creativity of them.  Whether or not they're creative is a non-issue.  The fact is that Petrucci didn't fess up.

[Ben_Jamin]

Why should he. If people know great if they don't cool. It doesn't matter. It was just an inspiration for the lyrics as is the inspiration corner for their music

[SnakeEyes]

Didn't everybody already know the source of the lyrics?  If so, maybe Petrucci felt he didn't need to mention where he got them from because he thought it was already known among the fans. 

[skydivingninja]

I don't think it was really known until someone pointed out the similarities to DTFAQ and this site.  I didn't know about the Lovecraft and Vampire stuff until now, but the Vampire stuff seems less plausible, while Lovecraft only seems to have a line or two borrowed.  Its not like its Maiden where the titles are very clearly taken from different subject matter.  No one is going to accuse Harris of not fessing up to the inspiration for "Brave New World" because its fairly obvious  . 

Again, the actual quality is what I'm more concerned about than a Korean comic book, though the direct lifting of lines from Priest bothers me as well.  At least AROP and Wither already show lyrical improvement.

[ariich]

So far the thing most people have done is redirect the attention from the uncredited sources of Petrucci's lyrics to the creativity of them.  Whether or not they're creative is a non-issue.  The fact is that Petrucci didn't fess up.

Didn't "fess up"? Ok it wasn't credited in the liner notes, but when he was asked about it it's not like he hid anything, he came straight out and admitted it.

[Ħ]

^ Maybe those weren't the right words, but I hope I am getting the right message across.  It just bothers me watching the SC documentary, when JP is talking about each of the songs and what they mean.  You would think that the natural thing to do would be to at least mention the sources...

[ariich]

I dunno, it's not like he went into long detailed descriptions. He was asked what the songs were about, so gave a couple of sentences about the story.

Plus, only ITPOE is obviously taken from something else. The others you are making an assumption on.

[Ħ]

It is possible that the Lovecraft/TDEN connections aren't really there.  However, if you check out the Forsaken connections with the vampire story in the link in my OP, not only is the story similar, but the lyrics are taken directly from sentences in the story...

[Kyo]

Plus, only ITPOE is obviously taken from something else. The others you are making an assumption on.

That'd be an awful lot of coincidences if he just happened to use so many phrases similar to those in the other alleged sources.

[Tick]

Much to do about nothing. It doesn't even matter.

[jcmistat]

If James LaBrie can write about Dexter.....

What song has Dexter references in it I must know!

[Ħ]

It's from an episode where Dexter figures out how to travel to a paradox dimension, where his mom and dad become his kids, Dee Dee becomes his wife, and Mandark becomes his best friend.  Dexter grows very content with this living situation, and even comes to recognize the alternate reality as his home.  However, the major conflict in the story is that Dexter cannot survive more than 24 hours in the alternate reality, so he must leave them at the end of the episode.  It's incredibly emotional, and the ultimate source of "Coming Home."

[Rafael Guerra]

It's from an episode where Dexter figures out how to travel to a paradox dimension, where his mom and dad become his kids, Dee Dee becomes his wife, and Mandark becomes his best friend.  Dexter grows very content with this living situation, and even comes to recognize the alternate reality as his home.  However, the major conflict in the story is that Dexter cannot survive more than 24 hours in the alternate reality, so he must leave them at the end of the episode.  It's incredibly emotional, and the ultimate source of "Coming Home."

I can't really tell if you are kidding or not, but this other source (https://www.thecontrapuntist.com/2010/10/29/album-review-static-impulse-by-james-labrie/) refers to the other "Dexter" show:

"Coming Home was inspired by the show Dexter, who is a vigilante serial killer. I took the liberties to take this character and have him in the position of incarceration confessing to the very people who helped him to become more connected to the human emotional spectrum. At the same time he has accepted his sentence, which is death by lethal injection. He asks his family for forgiveness. He wants them to know that he is grateful for giving him a life of normalcy, love and awakening and that he truly regrets the dishonesty."

[Ħ]

Lies.

[hefdaddy42]

Lies.

Well, it's straight from the horse's mouth.

[ddtonfire]

"Our deeds still travel with us from afar, and what we have been makes us what we are."
- George Eliot, Middlemarch (1871)

[Jarlaxle]

Omg, maybe Petrucci should be sued. You huys are blowing this way out of proportion.

[Mladen]

Iron Maiden wrote plenty of songs that are completely based on other things without given them any credit. Most notably, like half of their songs.

Yep. And that's exactly why I don't see anything wrong with this kind of stuff.

[KevShmev]

Omg, maybe Petrucci should be sued. You huys are blowing this way out of proportion.

Actually, artists have been sued for doing a lot less "borrowing" than Petrucci did...and lost.  Not saying he should be sued, or that it is a major big deal, but if the situation were reversed, and someone had done that much borrowing from a DT song, the DT fan base would be crying foul like mad.  I remember many on Portnoy's forum going ballistic over this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyWQVZ8PqJc

[Jarlaxle]

Still, as far as the last quote goes, just because it sounds like a direct reference to another piece of work, doesn't mean Petrucci or whoever did it looked at that quote, altered it, then put it in their song. Lots of things happen like this that are purely coincidental. In grade 12 I almost failed my english class because the teacher thought I copied pretty much a whole paragraph from some famous work. But I quite literally just wrote off the top of my head and it was damn similar to the other work. After explaining this to the teacher and my principal, I got to keep the paper, and ended up getting a 90 something on it.

[Perpetual Change]

Omg, maybe Petrucci should be sued. You huys are blowing this way out of proportion.

Actually, artists have been sued for doing a lot less "borrowing" than Petrucci did...and lost.  Not saying he should be sued, or that it is a major big deal, but if the situation were reversed, and someone had done that much borrowing from a DT song, the DT fan base would be crying foul like mad.  I remember many on Portnoy's forum going ballistic over this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyWQVZ8PqJc

But not this, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kne9JS0eIRc&feature=related  

Personally, I feel that people get way too fired up about "borrowing" things in music. A lot of great works of art, music included, have borrowed from other works all through history. Only recently to we have this absurd notion that works have to be "completely original," and even so, most of the original guitar gods completely ignored that notion, as has been misguidely documented by plenty of people who want to show how Page and Hendrix were "plagiarists."

But, that being the case, it could be very possible that someone at Roadrunner or in the band didn't want him to advertise the inspiration for those lyrics given how insane people are about "ownership" and stuff.

[Jarlaxle]

And it's almost impossible to be completely original these days. Some way or another, there's going to be something that a song or the lyrics are similar to.

[emindead]

Omg, maybe Petrucci should be sued. You huys are blowing this way out of proportion.

Actually, artists have been sued for doing a lot less "borrowing" than Petrucci did...and lost.  Not saying he should be sued, or that it is a major big deal, but if the situation were reversed, and someone had done that much borrowing from a DT song, the DT fan base would be crying foul like mad.  I remember many on Portnoy's forum going ballistic over this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyWQVZ8PqJc

OMG! "One Last Time" piano note for note.