Place your bets again - DT's next top model.

[Adami]

There is no was the rest of the guys tell the new drummer "What to play".  Now maybe the songs were done and they fleshed it out with him but telling him what to play is just wrong.

I doubt DT would ever be like that, but plenty of bands do that. It's sad for a drummer like me.

[King Postwhore]

There is no was the rest of the guys tell the new drummer "What to play".  Now maybe the songs were done and they fleshed it out with him but telling him what to play is just wrong.

I doubt DT would ever be like that, but plenty of bands do that. It's sad for a drummer like me.

I've read the stories of Cinderella doing just that but this is a bit more technical.  They may say, We'd like something like this, but you can't micromanage a DT sound.  it's just too hard to do.

[Adami]

Oh no, I know DT wouldn't be like that.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I'm pretty sure that whoever it is won't have a ton of input musically, but it's still DT and it's still going to be great. I'll be happy no matter who it is.

Like none. Not on this album. Let's not forget that it is almost a certainty that in a situation like this a new band member is probationary and will never to get to write anything straight away. He will basically be handed his parts and just told to play them. He can style a little bit with what he is given, but no writing credits or royalties for the new guy until he is made truly permanent. And that can't happen until after a nice long tour, which is what we will have this summer and fall. You don't know someone's long term viability until you tour with them. It's the only relevant stress test. It is my belief that the drum stuff has already been recorded and they are moving on to guitars and keyboards now. Basically the drums are written without the drummer using drum machines, then the drummer just gets to play what is given to him.

Not that I'm an expert on these sorts of things, but that seems awfully tough to believe. Your reasoning makes some sense, but I've just seen too many albums in which a new member comes in and the sound is completely changed. To use a drumming example, think of when Scott Travis joined Judas Priest and they released Painkiller--they were back in thrashy stuff and it was a big change from the more hair metal-type stuff Priest did in the 80s. I doubt Travis did that all himself, but you'd think that he had at least something to do with it, since the style was so different.

It was my impression that MP/A7X-style gigs are the exception, not the rule. After all, if the band was really impressed with their new member's writing ability, why wouldn't they be confident in writing with him, regardless of what they knew on the tour?

Plus, isn't Derek credited with a lot of the ACoS revisions and FII stuff? Obviously, he toured prior to that, but even so, MP and JP had some trepidation about him for pretty much the entire time he was in the band (which is why he wasn't made a full member for six months and they ultimately kept trying to get JR). And of course, JR went right to work on SFAM, which had similar secrecy as this album.

Not saying that the drummer necessarily IS taking an active role, but I find it foolish to rule any of these scenarios out.

Plus, if the band is apparently so pumped, I doubt they are really "iffy" about their choice. Think about it--they're pretty much the leading prog metal band in the world right now, so I'd bet a good amount of prog metal drummers aspire to be in DT. It's not like when JLB, Derek, or Jordan joined, when the band wasn't as popular--after all, there was supposedly an audition with seven incredible drummers. Sure, maybe that's somewhat hype, but I think we can all agree that the names who've been thrown out for the past 126 pages are pretty insane talents, whether or not they are the single IDEAL choice. Would we have been discussing Lang, Minnemann, or Mangini if MP had left after FII (and the band had stayed together anyway)? Possibly, but DT may have had to go with a lesser-named or lesser-talented guy, since they weren't at the top of the prog metal heap and had just released what most considered a disappointing album. So if it's someone with such incredible talent (which it almost HAS to be) and the band hand-picked him among seven of the best drummers in the genre, I'd imagine they'd feel pretty secure in at least listening to what the dude had to say with songwriting.

[ricky]

I'm pretty sure that whoever it is won't have a ton of input musically, but it's still DT and it's still going to be great. I'll be happy no matter who it is.

Like none. Not on this album. Let's not forget that it is almost a certainty that in a situation like this a new band member is probationary and will never to get to write anything straight away. He will basically be handed his parts and just told to play them. He can style a little bit with what he is given, but no writing credits or royalties for the new guy until he is made truly permanent. And that can't happen until after a nice long tour, which is what we will have this summer and fall. You don't know someone's long term viability until you tour with them. It's the only relevant stress test. It is my belief that the drum stuff has already been recorded and they are moving on to guitars and keyboards now. Basically the drums are written without the drummer using drum machines, then the drummer just gets to play what is given to him.

I doubt they are really "iffy" about their choice.

Yup, the say all end all. They know better than us.

[emtee]

More and more I think DT's intention all along was NOT to name the drummer until after the album
is in the can. It just seems really unlikely that legalities could/would be the primary reason for such
a long delay. April 8th will be 7 months. If lawyers can't iron out a situation involving a drummer
in a rock band in 7 months I would be very surprised. Peace treaties bewteen countries take less time.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

More and more I think DT's intention all along was NOT to name the drummer until after the album
is in the can. It just seems really unlikely that legalities could/would be the primary reason for such
a long delay. April 8th will be 7 months. If lawyers can't iron out a situation involving a drummer
in a rock band in 7 months I would be very surprised. Peace treaties bewteen countries take less time.

True, but then why did they initially say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision? Or all this "It'll be soon" stuff? You'd think they could just say "We want it to be a secret, and you'll know when the album is out."

[jonny108]

More and more I think DT's intention all along was NOT to name the drummer until after the album
is in the can. It just seems really unlikely that legalities could/would be the primary reason for such
a long delay. April 8th will be 7 months. If lawyers can't iron out a situation involving a drummer
in a rock band in 7 months I would be very surprised. Peace treaties bewteen countries take less time.

True, but then why did they initially say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision? Or all this "It'll be soon" stuff? You'd think they could just say "We want it to be a secret, and you'll know when the album is out."

When did they say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision?

[bosk1]

There is no was the rest of the guys tell the new drummer "What to play".  Now maybe the songs were done and they fleshed it out with him but telling him what to play is just wrong.

I doubt DT would ever be like that, but plenty of bands do that. It's sad for a drummer like me.

I've read the stories of Cinderella doing just that but this is a bit more technical.  They may say, We'd like something like this, but you can't micromanage a DT sound.  it's just too hard to do.

The difference being that Coury wasn't very good, so they always had to bring in a session drummer to lay down their drum tracks, and they just had him learn them to be able to tour with them.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

More and more I think DT's intention all along was NOT to name the drummer until after the album
is in the can. It just seems really unlikely that legalities could/would be the primary reason for such
a long delay. April 8th will be 7 months. If lawyers can't iron out a situation involving a drummer
in a rock band in 7 months I would be very surprised. Peace treaties bewteen countries take less time.

True, but then why did they initially say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision? Or all this "It'll be soon" stuff? You'd think they could just say "We want it to be a secret, and you'll know when the album is out."

When did they say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision?

Can't find it right now, but one of the band members definitely said it around the time the whole seven drummer audition news was broken--sometime in Oct. if I recall. I think it was Rudess who said it, although I'm not entirely sure. I definitely remember the line to the effect of "You will know as soon as we do," and my memory doesn't normally fail me on things like that...anyone else know specifics here?

EDIT: Got it. Rudess' twitter on Oct. 7: "Dream Theater will be having closed/private auditions for our new drummer this month. We will let u all know the moment we make a decision!"

[King Postwhore]

There is no was the rest of the guys tell the new drummer "What to play".  Now maybe the songs were done and they fleshed it out with him but telling him what to play is just wrong.

I doubt DT would ever be like that, but plenty of bands do that. It's sad for a drummer like me.

I've read the stories of Cinderella doing just that but this is a bit more technical.  They may say, We'd like something like this, but you can't micromanage a DT sound.  it's just too hard to do.

The difference being that Coury wasn't very good, so they always had to bring in a session drummer to lay down their drum tracks, and they just had him learn them to be able to tour with them.

I do remember that too.  Strange times in the 80's where producers had power.

[phentalmyst]

I do remember that too.  Strange times in the 80's where producers had power.

oh it still happens. even today.

[Ben_Jamin]

Haha Rudess meant, they'll announce they made a decision, not tecnically who It is.

[King Postwhore]

I do remember that too.  Strange times in the 80's where producers had power.

oh it still happens. even today.

I do understand but I'd venture it's a bit harder to micromanage a DT song.  Ideas and thoughts while working with them....yes.  Total control on what the drummer plays.....no.  I think Mike was the micro manager and they be a bit more free in the studio.  That's my guess.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I do understand but I'd venture it's a bit harder to micromanage a DT song. 

Well, Kevin Shirley sure gave it a shot 

[King Postwhore]

I do understand but I'd venture it's a bit harder to micromanage a DT song. 

Well, Kevin Shirley sure gave it a shot 

Though, I think it was more pressure from the record company.  Kevin was trying to have them record in a different way sonically.

[jonny108]

More and more I think DT's intention all along was NOT to name the drummer until after the album
is in the can. It just seems really unlikely that legalities could/would be the primary reason for such
a long delay. April 8th will be 7 months. If lawyers can't iron out a situation involving a drummer
in a rock band in 7 months I would be very surprised. Peace treaties bewteen countries take less time.

True, but then why did they initially say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision? Or all this "It'll be soon" stuff? You'd think they could just say "We want it to be a secret, and you'll know when the album is out."

When did they say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision?

Can't find it right now, but one of the band members definitely said it around the time the whole seven drummer audition news was broken--sometime in Oct. if I recall. I think it was Rudess who said it, although I'm not entirely sure. I definitely remember the line to the effect of "You will know as soon as we do," and my memory doesn't normally fail me on things like that...anyone else know specifics here?

EDIT: Got it. Rudess' twitter on Oct. 7: "Dream Theater will be having closed/private auditions for our new drummer this month. We will let u all know the moment we make a decision!"

Doesn't that mean they will let us know the minute they have chosen a drummer (which they did), not necessarily telling us who the drummer is though.  That's how I interepreted it. 

[The Presence of Frenemies]

More and more I think DT's intention all along was NOT to name the drummer until after the album
is in the can. It just seems really unlikely that legalities could/would be the primary reason for such
a long delay. April 8th will be 7 months. If lawyers can't iron out a situation involving a drummer
in a rock band in 7 months I would be very surprised. Peace treaties bewteen countries take less time.

True, but then why did they initially say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision? Or all this "It'll be soon" stuff? You'd think they could just say "We want it to be a secret, and you'll know when the album is out."

When did they say they'd announce the drummer as soon as they made a decision?

Can't find it right now, but one of the band members definitely said it around the time the whole seven drummer audition news was broken--sometime in Oct. if I recall. I think it was Rudess who said it, although I'm not entirely sure. I definitely remember the line to the effect of "You will know as soon as we do," and my memory doesn't normally fail me on things like that...anyone else know specifics here?

EDIT: Got it. Rudess' twitter on Oct. 7: "Dream Theater will be having closed/private auditions for our new drummer this month. We will let u all know the moment we make a decision!"

Doesn't that mean they will let us know the minute they have chosen a drummer (which they did), not necessarily telling us who the drummer is though.  That's how I interepreted it. 

Hmm...I see how you could interpret it that way, I suppose. Seems kind of weird for them to say that, though. I mean, Rudess had to know that the DT fans largely don't care WHEN the decision is made, so much as WHO wins. It just seems odd to me. And still, why wouldn't they just say "You'll know when the album comes out?"

The two common statements we've seen since auditions ended are "You'll know soon enough" and "You'll get why when it's announced." If it was simply going to be that they were going to release the drummer's name with the album, then just saying so would allow DT to a) tell fans WHEN and b) tell fans WHY. The fact that they haven't simply said so makes me believe that something else is going on, that the announcement time is more fluid, and that the reasons are deeper than the band simply deciding on a time. Not that I have any idea of what those reasons are, because there've been plenty of good arguments about why it isn't legal stuff and so on already, and it seems like we've ruled out just about every possibility, or at least deemed them all unlikely.

Given all the unrest in the fanbase, it just seems like if there was an easy way for DT to let the fans know further information (like specifics of time/reason/etc.) they would've done so by now. But, as they say, time will tell. All we can hope for at this point is that there WAS a damn good reason, that the drummer is good, and that the album will kick ass.

[ricky]

An abbreviated version of the previous post:

They want to tell us the new drummer. but due to some [most likely] legal reason, can't.

i honestly am more interested in having that scenario confirmed, rather than having mangini revealed.


edit typo

[aurorablind]

New JR/DT update on FB: "After spending the day today in the studio with the band, i must report that you guys better be good and ready for when this album comes out, because IT- is gonna blow your mind! I'm really excited about what we are creating!"

 

[Zydar]

[Metabog]

  I can't frickin' wait. They seem to be genuinely excited.

[Remco]

And we'll see YOU. On the road. 

[rumborak]

New JR/DT update on FB: "After spending the day today in the studio with the band, i must report that you guys better be good and ready for when this album comes out, because IT- is gonna blow your mind! I'm really excited about what we are creating!"

 

I know they try their best in the situation to keep the excitement afloat, but at this point I think they need to up the ante a bit. I.e. post a small video or something.

rumborak

[jonny108]

New JR/DT update on FB: "After spending the day today in the studio with the band, i must report that you guys better be good and ready for when this album comes out, because IT- is gonna blow your mind! I'm really excited about what we are creating!"

 

Jordan giving us hints, the new album will be called IT    Cannot fooking wait for this album. 

[Plasmastrike]

Heh, yep, maybe IT is the abbreviation. Let the speculation begin!

[rumborak]

Infinite topology

[Adami]

A short video would be great actually. Doesn't need to show the drummer. Hell, doesn't even need to have drums. Just JP playing a guitar riff by himself, or JR doing a keyboard part, or something. I'd be happy with that.

[ariich]

A short video would be great actually. Doesn't need to show the drummer. Hell, doesn't even need to have drums. Just JP playing a guitar riff by himself, or JR doing a keyboard part, or something. I'd be happy with that.

Actually a short clip of them jamming where we can HEAR the drummer but not see him would be amazing; the speculation would be through the roof.

[Zydar]

A short video would be great actually. Doesn't need to show the drummer. Hell, doesn't even need to have drums. Just JP playing a guitar riff by himself, or JR doing a keyboard part, or something. I'd be happy with that.

Actually a short clip of them jamming where we can HEAR the drummer but not see him would be amazing; the speculation would be through the roof.

Dare I say forum crash as a result?  

[King Postwhore]

A short video would be great actually. Doesn't need to show the drummer. Hell, doesn't even need to have drums. Just JP playing a guitar riff by himself, or JR doing a keyboard part, or something. I'd be happy with that.

Actually a short clip of them jamming where we can HEAR the drummer but not see him would be amazing; the speculation would be through the roof.

I'd love this.

[dongringo]

New JR/DT update on FB: "After spending the day today in the studio with the band, i must report that you guys better be good and ready for when this album comes out, because IT- is gonna blow your mind! I'm really excited about what we are creating!"

 

Wow!

[tri.ad]

A short video would be great actually. Doesn't need to show the drummer. Hell, doesn't even need to have drums. Just JP playing a guitar riff by himself, or JR doing a keyboard part, or something. I'd be happy with that.

Actually a short clip of them jamming where we can HEAR the drummer but not see him would be amazing; the speculation would be through the roof.

I'd love this.

This. That would really raise interest in the new drummer again.

[fadetoblackdude7]

A short video would be great actually. Doesn't need to show the drummer. Hell, doesn't even need to have drums. Just JP playing a guitar riff by himself, or JR doing a keyboard part, or something. I'd be happy with that.

Yes, but if you give a mouse a cookie......

[Metro]

Yes, but if you give a mouse a cookie......

It will probably die.