Within Temptation thread

[Ben_Jamin]

I enjoy some songs on Resist.  Some of those songs came off well live too IMO (Supernova really grew on me after seeing it live).

But it's just not music that I find very interesting.  And also to Bosk's point, the endless guests.  It seems like a gimmick at this point, which I can get into if I really found the music to be worthy.

I hear ya.

Like the special guest for their livestream.

I didn't watch the livestream, did they just have video and not actual in person guests?  And I didn't watch the livestream for precisely the reasons why my love for them had faded.

I didn't even watch it. I thought it hasn't streamed yet. I could be wrong though as I haven't been paying attention either.

[Cool Chris]

For all the 'feat' guests they've had on their releases, I think Tarja is the only one whom I have known.

This band was one of a handful who are automatic buys at this point in my life. No questions asked, no need to preview, just take my money. Hydra was a massive letdown after The Unforgiving. Resist was equally underwhelming, but I enjoyed the songs more when I saw them live. I might have to pass on anything they release in the future, which might bug me a little as it will remove them from the "Cool Chris Completionist' group in my collection.

[bosk1]

Sadly, didn't do much for me.  I still really want to like this band, but they lost me a couple of albums ago.  It would go a long way with me if they would drop the special guests and just go back to making solid, catchy, somewhat-symphonic metal.  They did that very well.  But I guess this direction is working for them and a lot of their fanbase, so... 

It's the "catchy" bit that makes the difference for me. Heart of Everything and especially The Unforgiving have so many amazing tunes and great hooks. I have no problem at all with the shift in style, but their songs mostly don't have the same strong hooks anymore - there are maybe 3-4 really songs on each of the last two albums but not enough to make them strong albums overall.

Yeah, those two albums were definitely the sweet spot for me.  But as Cram mentioned, I might still be interested in catching them live.  I have the Elements/Hydra DVD, and even though I hated Hydra (the album), the live show is fantastic.  And I caught a recent show of theirs on YouTube the other day, and it was outstanding.  They still put on a great show, and they are pure joy to watch.  Thankfully, they still play a lot of the "old" tunes.

[ErHaO]

I like pop(pier) metal and I do like the type of sound they have been going for. However, for some reason none of the melodies connect on any of their recent albums. The music sounds like it should have some good hooks and catchy bits, but it just doesn't have that for me. So I can't say "modern" WT has been for me.

[ariich]

I like pop(pier) metal and I do like the type of sound they have been going for. However, for some reason none of the melodies connect on any of their recent albums. The music sounds like it should have some good hooks and catchy bits, but it just doesn't have that for me. So I can't say "modern" WT has been for me.

Well put, yes this is exactly my feeling as well.

I will say that I'm still a big fan of Sharon, and I really like the pretty mellow pop solo album she did (My Indigo). Different style but very warm and melodically more engaging than the past couple of WT albums.

[SeRoX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60IPPvLhWA&ab_channel=WithinTemptation

Their new single "Don't Pray For Me" sounds amazing. It has old WT feeling, a good combination of The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving.

[Cool Chris]

Alright, you seriously better not be over-hyping that song, because reading " a good combination of The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving" has me drooling.

[bl5150]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60IPPvLhWA&ab_channel=WithinTemptation

Their new single "Don't Pray For Me" sounds amazing. It has old WT feeling, a good combination of The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving.

Finally................but on the other hand that production is so muddy it undoes much of the appeal of the song for me.  It sounds like vocals , drums and a mess of other stuff.  The Unforgiving had some clarity to it (yet still the "modern" sound) but I really struggle to enjoy a song when there's no clarity to the instruments.  But this does sound at least like their best work since The Unforgiving.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I did really enjoy that song, certainly their best that I can recall since The Unforgiving.  I think that muddiness has kind of been something of a characteristic of theirs for awhile though.  It seemed like as the 00s went along they took a low-pass filter to the guitars, they haven't had much bite or sizzle on the top end.  Some great songs, but it's like they're afraid to sound too "metal" anymore.  It's part of why I've preferred a band like Delain, they still have some edge to the guitars. 

[nick_z]

Real nice song!

I do agree with the production, though. It doesn't bother me too much, but it's definitely a thing.

Also agreeing with the comments about the direction WT have been taking. I sure love the early records, but The Unforgiven might well be my favorite. I still enjoyed Hydra, then they lost me a bit. As noted by others here, it's not about them becoming more straight "pop" - it's the fact that not much stuck with me in way of songs and melodies.

But this new single is promising...

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Enter and The Dance are the most musically interesting albums in my estimation, those albums to me are the nexus of the gothic/symphonic/progressive metal/rock scene, connecting the experimentalism of the 90s with the explosion in the 00s.  de Graaf's drumming in particular never gets discussed enough, it's much more imaginative and creative than most similar bands.  But The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving just have so many infectious songs, I like them on a similar level, just for different reasons. 

[gazinwales]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60IPPvLhWA&ab_channel=WithinTemptation

Their new single "Don't Pray For Me" sounds amazing. It has old WT feeling, a good combination of The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving.

Finally................but on the other hand that production is so muddy it undoes much of the appeal of the song for me.  It sounds like vocals , drums and a mess of other stuff.  The Unforgiving had some clarity to it (yet still the "modern" sound) but I really struggle to enjoy a song when there's no clarity to the instruments.  But this does sound at least like their best work since The Unforgiving.

Didn't bother me, but then again everything on YT sounds sh**house to my ears, reminds me of AM Radio quality 

[nick_z]

Enter and The Dance are the most musically interesting albums in my estimation, those albums to me are the nexus of the gothic/symphonic/progressive metal/rock scene, connecting the experimentalism of the 90s with the explosion in the 00s.  de Graaf's drumming in particular never gets discussed enough, it's much more imaginative and creative than most similar bands.  But The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving just have so many infectious songs, I like them on a similar level, just for different reasons.

Yep, I think I can agree with this.

By the way, Restless is such a great opener on Enter, with that piano theme and the mournful strings. Or the title track...Still sounds great. Haven't listened to The Dance in a long time.

And you are right about the drumming. Although, in that respect, it always seemed to me there is a very good tradition of tasteful Dutch drummers in extreme metal Thinking of Ed Warby too  (his drumming in Gorefest is so good...and then everything else he did, of course), or the band Threnody (can't recall the name of the drummer here) among others...

I seem to recall you are from the Netherlands, right...? Or am I wrong?

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Yeah, those are both great songs.  The last minute or so of "Enter" especially, some really well-captured tom work. 

That's an interesting point, I'd have to relisten to various bands, but I know Pestilence stands out as having had a number of outstanding drummers, though some have been from other countries.  Ed Warby is definitely another favorite, everything he touches is magic.  Demiurg's Slakthus Gamleby is another fantastic album he's on.  I don't think I've heard Threnody yet.  They appear to have a different drummer on most of their albums, is there a particular one you recommend? 

Nah, I'm from the US.  I just have a disproportionately high number of favorite bands and vocalists from the Netherlands (and from Sweden for that matter). 

[nick_z]

Yeah, those are both great songs.  The last minute or so of "Enter" especially, some really well-captured tom work. 

That's an interesting point, I'd have to relisten to various bands, but I know Pestilence stands out as having had a number of outstanding drummers, though some have been from other countries.  Ed Warby is definitely another favorite, everything he touches is magic.  Demiurg's Slakthus Gamleby is another fantastic album he's on.  I don't think I've heard Threnody yet.  They appear to have a different drummer on most of their albums, is there a particular one you recommend? 

I only have one album, "Bewildering Thoughts"...I haven't listened to it in ages. I remember it was a bit along the lines of Gorefest's Erase, but I'd have to go back and revisit. Not an album that blew my mind, but I recall the drumming being interesting, technical but tasteful.

Nah, I'm from the US.  I just have a disproportionately high number of favorite bands and vocalists from the Netherlands (and from Sweden for that matter).

Got it 

[cramx3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60IPPvLhWA&ab_channel=WithinTemptation

Their new single "Don't Pray For Me" sounds amazing. It has old WT feeling, a good combination of The Heart of Everything and The Unforgiving.

I saw them open for Iron Maiden last week.  Happened to record this song

Within Temptation - Don’t Pray for Me LIVE @ Prudential Center Newark NJ 10/21/2022

I thought they were awesome that night. This song also is a much better song out of their recent releases. I will say though, the highlight for me was probably Supernova.  I've really come around to love that song.

[Grappler]

I was thrilled to hear Paradise, Faster, In the Middle of the Night and Mother Earth.  Would have loved to hear something from The Heart of Everything or The Silent Force, but it's hard to do a lot in a 45 minute opening slot.  At least they did play some of their new songs.  We got Entertain You in Chicago.

I really wanted to hear Iron. 

[Cool Chris]

When I saw them on their last headlining tour, I enjoyed songs from Resist much more than I expected to.

[Samsara]

I've been fortunate enough to see WT twice.

The first was as a support act for Lacuna Coil at a tiny club in San Francisco. 2007, I think. LC was on the Karmacode tour, and WT was promoting The Heart of Everything. Great show. Sharon caught a frog in her throat, and was so humble, apologizing to the crowd. As a singer, shit like that happens. you just catch some saliva the wrong way and start coughing and it takes a few minutes. She fumbled through a song, apologized, got it cleared out and then killed it the rest of the show. I was really impressed, as was Mrs. Samsara.

Fast forward years later (I forget what year - 2018 maybe?). WT was HEADLINING...The Warfield in San Fran. That's a 2,800 capacity theater. BIG step up, considering they were OPENING in a 500 person club a decade or so earlier. The songs from Resist were awesome live. They were and are one of my daughter's favorites, so it was one of the first shows we took her to that she remembers. She had an absolute blast and still wears the concert T shirt today, probably a couple times a month. Just a great show. We weren't very fond of In Flames as an opener, but they were solid. But WT just had the crowd. Sharon was such a showperson with the flag and those vocals.

I was really bummed that WT wasn't opening the Maiden dates out here in CA. I would have gone to Maiden, just to see WT open and bring my daughter again. But unfortunately, WT just did the eastern half of the tour.

Regarding WT's new music...I hope they put out that CD soon. I see all the tracks available - I'm not a singles download guy. I want the album. As does Mrs. Samsara and the kid.

[Grappler]

The Reckoning is an awesome song and sounded great live.  I warmed up to Supernova after seeing them play it live and enjoyed Raise Your Banners with a tribute to Ukraine.

I probably put this in another thread, maybe the Maiden one, but there was a fun story from Chicago.  The show was in the United Center, where the Chicago Bulls play basketball.  In between songs, Sharon had the drummer stand up and show off his Bulls jersey.  She explained that he's a big fan and he bought the jersey that morning and wore it during the concert.  I forgot how popular basketball is in Europe and how cool it must be for him to be a fan and play a show in the same arena where Michael Jordan played and won the the team's last three championships. 

[Samsara]

Yeah, I read that. That was a cool moment to witness. I dig drummers who do that. Portnoy, Danny Carey. Even singer John Bush used to do that for hoops teams in cities they were touring (he doesn't any longer).

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Yeah, I follow the NBA a little bit, and Europe has definitely taken to basketball.  They have their own leagues there, and some of the players make their way over here.  Slavic countries are more common, but if I remember correctly the Netherlands has one of if not the tallest average heights in the world, so you'd think they'd have an advantage. 

[cramx3]

Finally got the new Within Temptation album "Bleed Out' last night and have now listened to it twice today. 

I think it's an improvement over Resist.  I think that's easily noticed already.  But it's not top Within Temptation for me, also easily noticed.  It's a good, but nothing special album so far.  Some good songs, nothing really bad about it, but nothing that stands out and seperates itself.  Still, glad to see an improvement (to my ears) over their previous work and reverse the course of heading the wrong direction.

Another oddly positive thing, no guests on the album.  I feel like their last two albums relied heavily on guest vocalists and it felt like it was becoming a crutch.  I'm usually a big fan of the guest musicians in general, hence why it's an odd positive, but I'm glad to see the band not rely on it here.

I think my biggest issue though was the slow trickle of music before this release.  I didn't even realize a full album was about to come out until recently, and then didn't realize I had actually heard a few of these songs a year or more ago.  I mentioned this in the new release thread, but clearly since this thread has been dead, I can't be the only one who didn't know a full album dropped last Friday.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I gave it a cursory listen a week or so ago.  I'm still not overly excited about it, but it did seem a bit better than their previous one and I could see some growth potential.  Sharon is still an amazing vocalist, but there are so many other bands beating them at their own game at this point.

[Ben_Jamin]

What sold me on this album is seeing them play them on their Hellfest show. Those songs come across so good live. I would say it's up with The Heart of Everything, which I would consider my favorite of theirs.

[Cool Chris]

Wait... they have a new album out?

What sold me on this album is seeing them play them on their Hellfest show. Those songs come across so good live.

I didn't rate Resist very highly but did feel many of those songs played well live when I saw them on that tour.

[jingle.boy]

I gave it a cursory listen a week or so ago.  I'm still not overly excited about it, but it did seem a bit better than their previous one and I could see some growth potential.  Sharon is still an amazing vocalist, but there are so many other bands beating them at their own game at this point.

I'm with you here dude.  The Xandria release was better for sure, but I was pleasantly surprised with Bleed Out

[ariich]

I gave it a cursory listen a week or so ago.  I'm still not overly excited about it, but it did seem a bit better than their previous one and I could see some growth potential.  Sharon is still an amazing vocalist, but there are so many other bands beating them at their own game at this point.

I'm with you here dude.  The Xandria release was better for sure, but I was pleasantly surprised with Bleed Out

Yep same for me. Probably roughly on a par with Hydra. Solid, some really good songs with great hooks, but nothing that hugely excites.

[Cool Chris]

Probably roughly on a par with Hydra.

Well, that's not encouraging.

[Grappler]

Just popping in to say that Ritual is a great song from the new album!   

[cramx3]

Probably roughly on a par with Hydra.

Well, that's not encouraging.

It may be better than Hydra.  I think Hydra had too many guests and a lot of those songs werent that great.  This album at least feels more like a consistent WT album of their modern style.