Poll

Which of the following applies to your views on 9/11?

It was blatanly perpetrated or allowed to happen by the US to further government / individual interests
4 (9.5%)
It was most likely perpetrated by the US, but I still have some doubts
4 (9.5%)
I'm not sure; both scenarios seem plausible to me
0 (0%)
There are some inconsistencies with the official story, but it was most likely perpetrated by Al Qaeda
7 (16.7%)
Al Qaeda is to blame; no doubt about it
22 (52.4%)
The US most likely allowed it to happen but took no part in it directly
5 (11.9%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?  (Read 20155 times)

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Online El Barto

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2010, 08:27:58 AM »
With all due respect to Tempus, plentiful and sincere on my part,  I disagree.  Aside from the point I made about stifling discussion in general, there are still some aspects of it that I find damned interesting.  Personally, I'd really like to see some intelligent discussion concerning some of the question marks.  Unfortunately, that's a surprisingly difficult thing to come across, and everything I've seen leads me to believe that this will be no exception.
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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2010, 08:31:29 AM »
Don't you think that the different departments of the government just failed to work together to connect the dots?  I think they had the intel but never got the where or the when or just plain dropped the ball.
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Online El Barto

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #107 on: October 15, 2010, 08:40:51 AM »
Sure.  Like I said earlier, my mantra is never underestimate the incompetence of others.  However, I'm not convinced that some of the incompetence wasn't deliberate.  Once you get to that point, then you're talking about a conspiracy. 
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #108 on: October 15, 2010, 08:52:56 AM »
I'd rather we just have a forum rule that says, "We have adopted REALITY as our guide on this issue, so leave your conspiracy theories about this topic at home in your mom's basement where they belong."
Suits me, buddy.  :tup

Agreed 9001%  Every time I see a 9/11 conspiracy theory it makes me want to smack someone, especially because pretty much every conspiracy theory about why the planes couldn't have destroyed the towers has been, AFAIK, debunked.  I hope anyone who still thinks 9/11 was a government conspiracy will look at Tempus' post, feel ashamed, and learn from it.

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2010, 10:32:24 AM »
I wish global warming conspiracy theories were treated with 1/10th of the hostility 9/11 conspiracy theories were. 
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Offline orcus116

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #110 on: October 15, 2010, 10:47:54 AM »
Seriously. Their "Global Warming is going to kill everything!" theories are absurd.

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #111 on: October 15, 2010, 10:59:45 AM »
Now I'm confused.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2010, 11:06:29 AM »
I was half joking. Both extreme sides of that issue are annoying. I don't mind the GW deniers as much because they're just more of a nuisance and easy to ignore. The fearmongerers, like Gore, who are just aiming to profit are probably the worst. They shove statistics and graphs with ridiculously disproportionate scales down peoples throats and try to guilt them into paying for dumb shit like carbon credit.

Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #113 on: October 15, 2010, 11:23:35 AM »
Thank you so much Tempus.  I was not near the Pentagon but conspiracy theories of this sort regarding 9/11 make my blood boil unlike anything else in this world.  My uncle works right near the pentagon and he witnessed the physical effects of the plane flying over and crashing as well. 

Also, Reap made a great clear post, a post which I have actually said in a previous thread from a year or 2 ago agaisnt In The Name of God who had presented the same conspiracy.  Reap's post is SO FILLED with logic, that you cannot dispute it.  No conspiracy will break that logic, unless cold hard REAL evidence is brought forward somehow (not going to happen because it does not exist). 

If the gov did know something was up that day, it was probably much like Pearl Harbor, or the iceberg that sunk the titanic.  None of those thigns happened on purpose, it was just people missing the signs.  Remember, hindsight is 20/20.  Incompetence plus the belief that this could not be feasible were probably very motivating factors to why it went down the way it did that day.  Thinking 4 planes could get hijacked simultaneously and used as missiles was a fantasy before 9/11.  You need perspective to our mindsets pre 9/11 to understand this.
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2010, 11:32:07 AM »
I think hindsight being 20/20 is pretty obviously disproved by the mere fact that conspiracy theorists exist  :P
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #115 on: October 15, 2010, 11:35:00 AM »
I think hindsight being 20/20 is pretty obviously disproved by the mere fact that conspiracy theorists exist  :P

What I'm saying is that it is easy for someone right now to say "How could they not see that coming?"
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2010, 11:41:46 AM »
And that's why I was all like  :P
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2010, 11:49:47 AM »
Oh I don't really know what a tongue sticking out face means lol.  I knew you were being playful with your words, but wasn't sure what you were trying to get across i guess.
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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2010, 11:49:58 AM »
Thinking 4 planes could get hijacked simultaneously and used as missiles was a fantasy before 9/11.  You need perspective to our mindsets pre 9/11 to understand this.

Airplanes being used as weapons go way back.  The Israelis were damn sure hip to it.  Ralph Nader suggested this very scenario back in [I believe] the late 70s.  American defense agencies were certainly aware of the possibility since they were conducting training exercises for it THAT VERY WEEK.  
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Offline rumborak

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2010, 12:11:16 PM »
Airline hijackings have been around forever.

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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2010, 12:53:49 PM »
"The fact you're saying it's possible the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane is already insane." You must not have read my reply thoroughly (or misinterpreted it); this is exactly the accusation I was trying to avoid.

You fail logic forever.  Let's go back a little bit:

Quote from: SovereignDream
You are also making assumptions of what my beliefs are on the Pentagon crash, etc. I'm not saying they are true or false claims, but preparations for such an event could have been made much earlier than one thinks.

You're saying you can't deny that a missile hit the Pentagon.  This is another way of saying it's possible.  You're not a defendant on a witness stand, and I didn't accuse you of anything.  I just took the meaning of what your post said and drew it to its logical conclusion.  A sane person should not be capable of believing a missile hit the Pentagon unless he/she is profoundly ignorant.

And by the way, I don't want to say I was convinced by Loose Change.  If you had put a gun to my head and asked for my honest opinion after seeing it I would have said their conclusions didn't seem probable.  But there were a few weeks after seeing it where I hadn't found any compelling counter-arguments.  I have a tendency of finding new pop culture movements right before they become cool.  In the case of Loose Change, not everyone had made a website debunking it yet, so I sat around thinking "wait, they didn't find any airplane debris at the Pentagon?  I mean, my dad has a friend who saw it.  But still, that makes no sense."  It's a compelling movie, but if you still believe it AFTER reading all the websites that debunk it, I don't know what to do other than being a dick.  I don't share anything near what Tempus experienced that day, but it was still a surreal day in my life and a nightmare for others.  Using it as masturbatory conspiracy fodder is insulting.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 07:31:22 PM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #121 on: October 15, 2010, 04:41:58 PM »
Thinking 4 planes could get hijacked simultaneously and used as missiles was a fantasy before 9/11.  You need perspective to our mindsets pre 9/11 to understand this.

Airplanes being used as weapons go way back.  The Israelis were damn sure hip to it.  Ralph Nader suggested this very scenario back in [I believe] the late 70s.  American defense agencies were certainly aware of the possibility since they were conducting training exercises for it THAT VERY WEEK.  

Please see bolded.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #122 on: October 15, 2010, 07:43:08 PM »
1 hijacked plane is commonplace, 4 planes is unthinkable?
Not exactly.

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Offline Adami

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #123 on: October 15, 2010, 11:30:34 PM »
It probably wasn't too difficult to hijack the planes back then. They didn't use bombs. Security was horrible before 9/11. They could have probably fit a nuke on there if they had wanted to.
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Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2010, 05:05:39 AM »
I bet you guys have watched Zeitgeist movies, whether they are absurd theories or not, but in case you haven't, just give your 10 minutes for this video and think again. Of course, there is no reason to believe in this video, and as there is no reason to believe this video, there is no reason to believe the government either. It's up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyyRXfROhrc

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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #125 on: October 16, 2010, 07:04:41 AM »
You're right.  There's no reason to believe the movie.  It's pure and utter trash.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #126 on: October 16, 2010, 07:22:32 AM »


But on a serious note, like most conspiracy theories the 911 conspiracy theory takes observations of things that might not quite add up up (like a shadow going the wrong way, or a building falling down in a manner that one wouldnt expect) but rather than looking at a billion or so trivial and easily plausible explanations they automatically jump to the extreme conclusion of governmenental conspiracy. They present a false dichotomy that isn't actually there.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #127 on: October 16, 2010, 07:44:23 AM »
I bet you guys have watched Zeitgeist movies, whether they are absurd theories or not, but in case you haven't, just give your 10 minutes for this video and think again. Of course, there is no reason to believe in this video, and as there is no reason to believe this video, there is no reason to believe the government either. It's up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyyRXfROhrc

I genuinely feel sorry for people who watch videos like this and actually have their minds changed about issues because of it.

Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #128 on: October 16, 2010, 08:09:46 AM »
I'm not an American and I was young at that time to understand the gravity of this incident, but the video suggests enough clips and evidences, although it may not be very reliable because it is just a video in youtube blah blah, that actually convinces me slightly. Well I'm a skeptic in nature and I decided to take the stance from the video as my basis. And when I did, the US government seemed as absurd as how you guys think of the video. Hope you get my point.

Yes, I actually somewhat think that some of you are 'blinded' by the well-made propagandas and all that and you have no doubts about your government's reliability. No wrong in that, of course. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong to question the government. I'm not knowledgeable in politics so please, don't tell me stuff like "How much do you know about how the government works?" and stuff, because I probably don't know. Also, I'm just stating my belief.

Another request. Can you show me actual basis, maybe by the government itself, that actually addresses the questions raised in the video, and stop responding like 'yeah that video's absurd and it doesn't make sense'?
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #129 on: October 16, 2010, 08:28:00 AM »
I'm not an American and I was young at that time to understand the gravity of this incident, but the video suggests enough clips and evidences, although it may not be very reliable because it is just a video in youtube blah blah, that actually convinces me slightly.

Except that the video has been trashed by real experts a thousand times over and the damn thing even LOOKS like it's trying to hypnotize you when you watch it.
Well I'm a skeptic in nature and I decided to take the stance from the video as my basis.

Too bad you  couldn't extend you skepticism to someone who's notorious for making up stories based on circumstancial evidence!
Yes, I actually somewhat think that some of you are 'blinded' by the well-made propagandas and all that and you have no doubts about your government's reliability.
LOL. Blinded by our government? Do you even TALK to anyone on this board about what they think of the US government?

Another request. Can you show me actual basis, maybe by the government itself, that actually addresses the questions raised in the video, and stop responding like 'yeah that video's absurd and it doesn't make sense'?
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
https://www.nmsr.org/nmsr911.htm
911myths.com
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/home Mark Robert's website
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/Mackey_drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf   Ryan Mackey's White Paper that refutes David Ray Griffin's arguments.
https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/

Further evidence:  Noam-fucking-Chomsky disagrees with the "truthers." Enough said.

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #130 on: October 16, 2010, 08:31:09 AM »
AwakeFromOctavarium, there are literally second-by-second refutations of Zeitgeist.

Also, I think that anyone that believes for a second anything promoted by Zeitgeist, they revoke any rights to label themselves as a "skeptic."  Swallowing any bullshit you see is the exact opposite of skeptical thinking.
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Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #131 on: October 16, 2010, 08:41:37 AM »
Well except, it's up to you to think which one is bullshit. But I'll read all the thing PC gave me.
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Offline MetalMike06

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #132 on: October 16, 2010, 08:58:30 AM »
A bigger problem is that nobody is allowed to question the theory without being labeled a crackpot.  I disagree with the conspiracy theorists, but I'd like for their questions to be addressed and not automatically dismissed as lunacy.

My exact position pretty much.

Offline ehra

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #133 on: October 16, 2010, 09:11:36 AM »
For a public speaking class I had to take we were given an assignment to study pretty much any topic we felt like then give a 10-15 minute speech on it to the class (nothing difficult). The day before I was scheduled to do mine a girl did her speech on how 9/11 was an inside job to a dead silent class, using mainly Loose Change as her source. I was tempted to be an asshole and switch my topic to debunking 9/11 theories at the last minute, but I figured bathroom etiquette and hygiene was more important.

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #134 on: October 16, 2010, 09:21:34 AM »
Holy fuck, you so should've.

Did you at least rock her brain with insightful comments and penetrating questions?
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Offline ehra

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #135 on: October 16, 2010, 09:25:57 AM »
The entire class was completely silent; we were supposed to ask questions but the instructor had to do that for us. I didn't want to ruin the magic.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #136 on: October 16, 2010, 09:27:49 AM »
I had a class like that. One kid explained why the moon landing was faked. Another kid talked about how to make jello-shots. I talked explained the concept of 7th Son of a 7th Son  :tup

Offline Seventh Son

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #137 on: October 16, 2010, 09:42:47 AM »
I had a class like that. One kid explained why the moon landing was faked. Another kid talked about how to make jello-shots. I talked explained the concept of 7th Son of a 7th Son  :tup

Damn straight you did.
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Offline William Wallace

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #138 on: October 16, 2010, 09:45:49 AM »
AwakeFromOctavarium, there are literally second-by-second refutations of Zeitgeist.

Also, I think that anyone that believes for a second anything promoted by Zeitgeist, they revoke any rights to label themselves as a "skeptic."  Swallowing any bullshit you see is the exact opposite of skeptical thinking.
Thank you. Zeitgeist was a miserable excuse for a "documentary" and the "just open your mind" response from its fans is so unbelievably irritating. The fact that we both hate it should clue in people to its veracity.  :laugh:

Offline ScioPath

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Re: 9/11 Official Story: True or False?
« Reply #139 on: October 16, 2010, 11:09:17 AM »
stop making polls thanks.