The Hypothetical Future Of Dream Theater

[Tick]

What if the new album flops, and the fans don't care for it? Do they get a pass in general for making a sub par album and consider it a fluke? or does it get blamed on Mike not being there?

Where would the band go next?

Would they disband?
Would they just rebound, ignore the criticism and make another album?
Would they seek to get Mike back?
Would there pride make them feel they can't ask Mike back?
Would they feel that not having Mike had nothing to do with anything?
Would Mike want to return at that point or revel in the failure?
 
None of this will probably matter because in all likelihood the album will be good, but man, what if?

[?]

I think the option 2 would be the most realistic. I doubt they would ask Mike to rejoin them just because an album didn't get as good reception as expected.

[Mebert78]

If the album flops, people will say it's because MP wasn't in the band and they missed his leadership and direction.  Welcome back, MP!

If the album is great, people will blame MP for the band's recent mediocre albums and cite his departure as the reason for improvement.  People will embrace the new drummer and lineup with open arms.  No more, MP.

If it's an OK album, hmmmm idk.

[skydivingninja]

Honestly, I can see a lot of DT fans not buying the new album simply BECAUSE MP isn't on it.  If it flops, hopefully, DT will understand some fan disappointment with that and press on as if they weren't coming off of two albums in the Billboard top 20.  I do hope they do a great job though.  They really have something to prove to us again.

[orcus116]

Honestly, I can see a lot of DT fans not buying the new album simply BECAUSE MP isn't on it.

That'd be kind of dumb. I know he was "part of the core" and all but I never got the idea that the drum parts were a huge draw on the last few albums. Could be cause I don't play the drums so I can't tell what nuances are present but it sounded like he could've written similar parts in his sleep.

[Adami]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

[Jarlaxle]

Option two is the most realistic out of the bunch as they have never been a band to take fan criticism to heart.

[Tick]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

I like all their albums so I'm one of those homers who will probably like whatever they do. Unless James has the dude on his solo album do a lot of the vocals on the next DT album.

The only album I'm not ecstatic about is WDADU. Don't like Charlies vocals at all.

[orcus116]

Option two is the most realistic out of the bunch as they have never been a band to take fan criticism to heart.

You sure about that?

[Tick]

Option two is the most realistic out of the bunch as they have never been a band to take fan criticism to heart.

I think that may change without Mike. I think they will take it more personal, imo.

[orcus116]

Really? Mike was the only one who seemed to take criticism personally.

[Tick]

Really? Mike was the only one who seemed to take criticism personally.

Don't you think that might change with him gone, if his departure is blamed for people not liking the album?
I hope they stay as even keel as ever but ya never know what will come?

[Seventh Son]

Continue as normal.

Can't see how they would make anything on the same level as SC, so I imagine they'd press on no matter what happens.

[SovereignDream]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

[Jarlaxle]

Well they don't take criticism to heart with the obvious exception of Mike, who seems to get mad whenever somebody even suggests that he hit the wrong tom while playing the intro to Honor Thy Father.  

[Seventh Son]

Option two is the most realistic out of the bunch as they have never been a band to take fan criticism to heart.

You sure about that?

Mike really got that upset over that? Shit, I've had worse insults hurled my way by a small child and simply shrugged it off before. I know Mike's an emotional kind of guy, but I think he could benefit from having some thick skin.

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointing me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

I enjoy DT but SC was pretty bad in my opinion. Like, 3/10, maybe 4/10 on a good day.

[Stoneyman]

I think that only fans who might not buy the new stuff will be the MP devotee clan.  Really, if you are drummer or fan of good drumming, you would think those types will be into a new talented drummer???  we'll have to wait and see.

I think those who lashed out at MP and were mad at him over this were true DT fans.  I was more present on his site due to him being the face of DT.  Now I really dont care if he plays golf with Jimmy the skunk or billy balls.  Not much of an A7X fan, sorry.

It seems to me that DT fans will still support DT.  As far as I know MP doesnt (and never has) written all the parts of DT's music.

I dont see much of a drop off as far as fans/cd sales.  Drummers who love drummers will surely be into the new guy.  And I am pretty sure he will be darn good.

The only bad scenario I see is if DT totally changes their style with the new guy.  Then the new guy will be "blamed" for changing DT's vibe.

Wasnt it Rena who chimed in at JP's site to confirm that John has pretty much written (music) every DT song anyway?

[Seventh Son]

I think that only fans who might not buy the new stuff will be the MP devotee clan.  Really, if you are drummer or fan of good drumming, you would think those types will be into a new talented drummer???  we'll have to wait and see.

I think those who lashed out at MP and were mad at him over this were true DT fans.  I was more present on his site due to him being the face of DT.  Now I really dont care if he plays golf with Jimmy the skunk or billy balls.  Not much of an A7X fan, sorry.

It seems to me that DT fans will still support DT.  As far as I know MP doesnt (and never has) written all the parts of DT's music.

I dont see much of a drop off as far as fans/cd sales.  Drummers who love drummers will surely be into the new guy.  And I am pretty sure he will be darn good.

The only bad scenario I see is if DT totally changes their style with the new guy.  Then the new guy will be "blamed" for changing DT's vibe.

Wasnt it Rena who chimed in at JP's site to confirm that John has pretty much written (music) every DT song anyway?

A change in style might actually be a good thing for Dream Theater. A bit of fresh air is always good for the mind.

[Tick]

Option two is the most realistic out of the bunch as they have never been a band to take fan criticism to heart.

You sure about that?

Mike really got that upset over that? Shit, I've had worse insults hurled my way by a small child and simply shrugged it off before. I know Mike's an emotional kind of guy, but I think he could benefit from having some thick skin.

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointing me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

I enjoy DT but SC was pretty bad in my opinion. Like, 3/10, maybe 4/10 on a good day.

I love SC a lot!

[Seventh Son]

Option two is the most realistic out of the bunch as they have never been a band to take fan criticism to heart.

You sure about that?

Mike really got that upset over that? Shit, I've had worse insults hurled my way by a small child and simply shrugged it off before. I know Mike's an emotional kind of guy, but I think he could benefit from having some thick skin.

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointing me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

I enjoy DT but SC was pretty bad in my opinion. Like, 3/10, maybe 4/10 on a good day.

I love SC a lot!

Well I'm just one of the SC haters anyway 

[j]

Honestly, I can see a lot of DT fans not buying the new album simply BECAUSE MP isn't on it.

You really think so?  Honestly, that would surprise me.  In fact, the album might sell BETTER simply due to the buzz created by this turn of events.

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.  But surpassing SC isn't much of an accomplishment, and overall BC&SL is pretty mediocre by DT's standards.

A change in style might actually be a good thing for Dream Theater. A bit of fresh air is always good for the mind.

Amen brother.

-J

[KevShmev]

It'll be interesting to see what the first week sales are of the next album, to see if it comes close to the first week sales of BC&SL.  The key will be how much Roadrunner still pushes them.  You have to think that Portnoy was probably pretty persistent in getting them to promote them anywhere and everywhere, which obviously helped, so hopefully Petrucci or one of the others will do the same thing the next time around.

[darkshade]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.

wait... Scenes From A Memory?

though i agree about those 3 albums (especially SDOIT) 

[Seventh Son]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.

wait... Scenes From A Memory?

though i agree about those 3 albums (especially SDOIT) 

I enjoy Falling Into Infinity more than Scenes.

[Adami]

When I said subpar I didn't mean bad. Just not up to par with their earlier stuff. Sub par albums to me would be ToT, 8vm, SC and BCSL. All decent, but a decline from 6doit and before.

[Tick]

It'll be interesting to see what the first week sales are of the next album, to see if it comes close to the first week sales of BC&SL.  The key will be how much Roadrunner still pushes them.  You have to think that Portnoy was probably pretty persistent in getting them to promote them anywhere and everywhere, which obviously helped, so hopefully Petrucci or one of the others will do the same thing the next time around.

If Roadrunner is smart they will promote them hard for at least one album to see what the result of the curiosity factor of the diehards brings. and also to keep the momentum of the casual fan who doesn't even know or care that there was a lineup change. They have a band on there label that debuted at 7 on there last album, they would be stupid not to see what this album brings with some heavy promotion.

[j]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.

wait... Scenes From A Memory?

though i agree about those 3 albums (especially SDOIT) 

I enjoy Falling Into Infinity more than Scenes.

Actually so do I, but we might be the only ones.  It's a pretty close call, at any rate.

It'll be interesting to see what the first week sales are of the next album, to see if it comes close to the first week sales of BC&SL.  The key will be how much Roadrunner still pushes them.  You have to think that Portnoy was probably pretty persistent in getting them to promote them anywhere and everywhere, which obviously helped, so hopefully Petrucci or one of the others will do the same thing the next time around.

If Roadrunner is smart they will promote them hard for at least one album to see what the result of the curiosity factor of the diehards brings. and also to keep the momentum of the casual fan who doesn't even know or care that there was a lineup change. They have a band on there label that debuted at 7 on there last album, they would be stupid not to see what this album brings with some heavy promotion.

I agree.  I think they'll promote it at least as heavily as they did with BC&SL.

-J

[SovereignDream]

Honestly, I can see a lot of DT fans not buying the new album simply BECAUSE MP isn't on it.

You really think so?  Honestly, that would surprise me.  In fact, the album might sell BETTER simply due to the buzz created by this turn of events.

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.  But surpassing SC isn't much of an accomplishment, and overall BC&SL is pretty mediocre by DT's standards.

A change in style might actually be a good thing for Dream Theater. A bit of fresh air is always good for the mind.

Amen brother.

-J

See, I thought all their works before SC and BC&SL were masterpieces. Train of Thought was amazing, with some of the best solos and riffs and I loved the heavyness of it, Octavarium's 1st tracks were...different but still sounded amazing - and Octavarium, the song, is one of my personal favorites. It is just so...moving, so epic. One of, if not THE best song in their repertoire.

It goes without saying that Six Degrees and Scenes were absolute masterpieces as well. SC and BC&SL seem to be missing a virtuosic element - and JOHN MYUNG!!

[Vivace]

I don't see how a new album could flop. I don't think Mike was a principle song writer per se, mostly he arranged the songs. I think the rest of the band is fully capable of filling those shoes albeit Mike certainly did a good job (not perfect but good nonetheless). I believe the core of the music comes from JP, JR and JM but mostly from JP and JR I think. So in my opinion I have the following possibilities

1) the album is nothing short of excellent and can be easily compared to something earlier, probably more like Octavarium but it's still shunned because Mike isn't there.
2) the album is nothing short of excellent and can be easily compared to something earlier, probably more like Octavarium, the new drummer brings a fresh drumming experience that people love and suddenly the new drummer becomes what Jordan was during SFAM.

I remember when Jordan joined and a lot of people were skeptical but they already knew what he was capable of with LTE. The minute that man showed up what he could do with SFAM he became a fortified member and suddenly Derek is thrown under the bus. I have a feeling the same thing is going to happen here however I think it will take two albums, not one. Now this is only a personal opinion and is not a comment on Mike's drumming.

[TAC]

Honestly, I can see a lot of DT fans not buying the new album simply BECAUSE MP isn't on it.

You really think so?  Honestly, that would surprise me.  In fact, the album might sell BETTER simply due to the buzz created by this turn of events.

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.  But surpassing SC isn't much of an accomplishment, and overall BC&SL is pretty mediocre by DT's standards.

A change in style might actually be a good thing for Dream Theater. A bit of fresh air is always good for the mind.

Amen brother.

-J

See, I thought all their works before SC and BC&SL were masterpieces. Train of Thought was amazing, with some of the best solos and riffs and I loved the heavyness of it, Octavarium's 1st tracks were...different but still sounded amazing - and Octavarium, the song, is one of my personal favorites. It is just so...moving, so epic. One of, if not THE best song in their repertoire.

It goes without saying that Six Degrees and Scenes were absolute masterpieces as well. SC and BC&SL seem to be missing a virtuosic element - and JOHN MYUNG!!

..and James LaBrie!!!

[Bone_Daddy]

They've already released a bunch of sup bar albums, why would another be all that shocking?

Are you kidding? The only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and BC&SL. Even then, those albums were not BAD at all; they simply failed to be as good as all their others. Dream Theater is incapable of producing a bad album; the worst they can do is simply have that album not live up the the greatness of all albums prior to SC and BC&SL...

They've been on the decline for quite a while now.  BC&SL is one of only three DT albums (the others being I&W and SDOIT) to be better than the album preceding it, IMO.

wait... Scenes From A Memory?

though i agree about those 3 albums (especially SDOIT) 

The last 4 albums have been pretty average - meh.

[Lowdz]

I can't imagine a world where DT (even an MP-less DT) can release a subpar album. Aint gonna happen. Not to these ears anyway. every album contains so many golden moments (even SC) that it's worth listening to. Even though I consider SC a less brilliant album it still has ITPoE, Forsaken, MOLS, even POW.

[TAC]

I can't imagine a world where DT (even an MP-less DT) can release a subpar album. Aint gonna happen. Not to these ears anyway. every album contains so many golden moments (even SC) that it's worth listening to. Even though I consider SC a less brilliant album it still has ITPoE, Forsaken, MOLS, even POW.

Exactly.

[Tick]

When I said subpar I didn't mean bad. Just not up to par with their earlier stuff. Sub par albums to me would be ToT, 8vm, SC and BCSL. All decent, but a decline from 6doit and before.

In all due respect, I know that many share this opinion as if its a fact among  DT fans that the last last 3 albums are a decline from the earlier albums. I would argue that songs like ITPOE, Octavrium, A Nightmare To Remember, and The Count Of Tuscany are better songs then any songs on FII or Awake. That's how I feel anyways.

[Adami]

And just for that Tick (the awake comment) I'm not going to use any lube.