Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United

[TAC]

That's cool. I watched a documentary on it, and it's definitely for the young.


Many years ago, a friend and I were seriously looking into see Iron Maiden at Donnington in '92. We had even visited a travel agent. It started to feel a bit complicated. Now with a computer, I could sit down and bang out all of my plans in one sitting.

[cramx3]

Wacken (and other massive metal festivals) look cool, but the logistics of it all just make it seem not nearly as fun as it looks.  I've never been to one of these so what do I know.  I just feel like I'd need a nice shower and bed after that, but if you go back to camping, well, I just feel like I'd be miserable come day 2 

[MirrorMask]

I remember you could pay for a closed toilet (so you didn't have to poo in the woods) and I assume there are actual showers installed. So I'm confident that if you want, you can still have some basic hygiene without having to wash yourself with a bucket of water.

If a festival is well organized, it can still be fun and not overwhelming. It all comes down to one's personal preference; how much travelling are you willing to do? for how long you can stand a queue? do you like camping? if queues and camping don't terribly bother you, I'd say a big festival is a nice experience.

I'm glad I did it when I was young, now I probably can't be bothered anymore.

[TAC]

Seems Helloween is cancelling a couple of Festival appearances due to Michael Kiske having laryngitis...

https://bravewords.com/news/update-helloween-drop-off-bill-for-hellsinki-metal-festival-as-singer-michael-kiske-recovers-from-acute-laryngitis-apocalyptica-fill-their-spot

[MirrorMask]

That sucks!

Anyway, minor rambling on their show: during the Walls of Jericho portion of the set, I was thinking that maybe it should have been just the original line-up guys, without Sasha. No disrespect to him, he's earned every right to be there, but in that specific moment, when they were playing songs from the debut, I was thinking that seeing just the "original line-up" (with the obvious and sad exception of Ingo) would have been more a faithful reminder of what it was 30 years ago. Again, I don't mind seeing Sasha there for that part of the show as well, nothing against him, it's just that if it was only Kai / Michael / Markus (and obviously Dani on drums), it would have been more nostalgic and a more faithful reminder of how it all started.

[TAC]

I completely disagree and it goes against the whole spirit of what makes this reunion special. 

[wolfking]

That sucks!

Anyway, minor rambling on their show: during the Walls of Jericho portion of the set, I was thinking that maybe it should have been just the original line-up guys, without Sasha. No disrespect to him, he's earned every right to be there, but in that specific moment, when they were playing songs from the debut, I was thinking that seeing just the "original line-up" (with the obvious and sad exception of Ingo) would have been more a faithful reminder of what it was 30 years ago. Again, I don't mind seeing Sasha there for that part of the show as well, nothing against him, it's just that if it was only Kai / Michael / Markus (and obviously Dani on drums), it would have been more nostalgic and a more faithful reminder of how it all started.

Sascha takes a lot of pressure off Kai and Weiki in the guitar department.  I think they really appreciate his rock solid foundation on the guitar especially I think during the old faster stuff.  I get what you're saying but I don't see the harm, plus it beefs up the whole sound.

That's kind of like saying Janick should fuck off out the back during Wasted Years or Stranger in A Strange Land.  Doesn't really make sense.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I had a similar opinion, but after seeing them live, and how Sasha is integrated with the older members of the lineup...he definitely earned his place in the band, and does an amazing job across the board.

When it comes to Jannick though...I would pay a PREMIUM price for a Maiden ticket in a spot that completely obstructed his view and only let me see the members of the classic lineup. His guitar is usually low in the mix, so I wouldn't miss anything. Unless it's his turn to butcher the solo on Revelations or Heaven Can Wait.

[MirrorMask]

I had a similar opinion, but after seeing them live, and how Sasha is integrated with the older members of the lineup...he definitely earned his place in the band, and does an amazing job across the board.

And I agree! I never said he should go, I just thought "well, if they're going the Walls of Jericho route, it would be fun if they'd go hardcore about it and have just Kai, Michael and Markus, like it was in 1986". It's not that I want Sasha out of the band, I figured he'd take a 10 minutes break in the middle of the show, that's all 

[wolfking]

When it comes to Jannick though...I would pay a PREMIUM price for a Maiden ticket in a spot that completely obstructed his view and only let me see the members of the classic lineup. His guitar is usually low in the mix, so I wouldn't miss anything. Unless it's his turn to butcher the solo on Revelations or Heaven Can Wait.

No offence, but I hate that people still have this opinion.  The guys been in the band for over 30 years FFS!

[TAC]

When it comes to Jannick though...I would pay a PREMIUM price for a Maiden ticket in a spot that completely obstructed his view and only let me see the members of the classic lineup. His guitar is usually low in the mix, so I wouldn't miss anything. Unless it's his turn to butcher the solo on Revelations or Heaven Can Wait.

No offence, but I hate that people still have this opinion.  The guys been in the band for over 30 years FFS!

Right. It's funny how now with Jannick, the beginning of Caught Somewhere In Time actually sounds pretty good. The old boots of that song show why I think they've never played it since. It just never sounded right.

[Samsara]

Keeping a newer member when the original or classic guys return is classy, and often helps a band (except budget-wise). But for Helloween and Iron Maiden, not really any serious budgetary problems doing it. I admit, Sascha looks...off...from the rest of them, look-wise. And yeah, Jannick always...he's always "the other guy." But both have earned their place in those bands.

[wolfking]

It's just amusing that Janick has actually been an Iron Maiden member for more years collectively than Adrian.

[RodrigoAltaf]

It's just amusing that Janick has actually been an Iron Maiden member for more years collectively than Adrian.

Doesn't change the fact that I think he sucks. But that's only my opinion.

[Mladen]

Good grief, Rodrigo. You're usually right about every single thing. But this is whole other story. 

[RodrigoAltaf]

Good grief, Rodrigo. You're usually right about every single thing. But this is whole other story. 

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm DEFINITELY not a fan of JAnnick.

[pg1067]

It's just amusing that Janick has actually been an Iron Maiden member for more years collectively than Adrian.

Not quite, but it's close.

[TAC]

Good grief, Rodrigo. You're usually right about every single thing. But this is whole other story. 

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm DEFINITELY not a fan of JAnnick.

I mean, the way he carries Hell On Earth is just awful.

[wolfking]

It's just amusing that Janick has actually been an Iron Maiden member for more years collectively than Adrian.

Not quite, but it's close.

Actually I think you're right thinking about it.  Adrian may have him pipped by a year.

[wolfking]

Good grief, Rodrigo. You're usually right about every single thing. But this is whole other story. 

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm DEFINITELY not a fan of JAnnick.

I mean, the way he carries Hell On Earth is just awful.

Sarcasm Tim, surely?

[TAC]

Good grief, Rodrigo. You're usually right about every single thing. But this is whole other story. 

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm DEFINITELY not a fan of JAnnick.

I mean, the way he carries Hell On Earth is just awful.

Sarcasm Tim, surely?

Of course. If someone is not a fan of Janick, then they're not really a fan of the Reunion Era because he is plastered all over it.

[wolfking]

Good grief, Rodrigo. You're usually right about every single thing. But this is whole other story. 

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm DEFINITELY not a fan of JAnnick.

I mean, the way he carries Hell On Earth is just awful.

Sarcasm Tim, surely?

Of course. If someone is not a fan of Janick, then they're not really a fan of the Reunion Era because he is plastered all over it.

Agree.  His contributions are integral and always have been.

[pg1067]

It's just amusing that Janick has actually been an Iron Maiden member for more years collectively than Adrian.

Not quite, but it's close.

Actually I think you're right thinking about it.  Adrian may have him pipped by a year.

Yeah...Smith joined Maiden on November 8, 1980 and left during pre-production for NPFTD, which would have been somewhere during spring 1990, so that's about 9 1/2 years that Smith was in and Gers wasn't.

It's not clear to me exactly when Gers joined.  NPFTD was recorded from June to September 1990, and Gers' first concert with Maiden was September 19, 1990.  Smith rejoined sometime in 1999, and his first concert after rejoining was July 11, 1999, so there was somewhere between 8 1/2 years to 9 years and a couple months that Gers was in and Smith wasn't.

[TAC]

Gers joined the night before they started recording NPFTD. Janick auditioned three days after Adrian was booted, and they started recording the next day.

[wolfking]

It's just amusing that Janick has actually been an Iron Maiden member for more years collectively than Adrian.

Not quite, but it's close.

Actually I think you're right thinking about it.  Adrian may have him pipped by a year.

Yeah...Smith joined Maiden on November 8, 1980 and left during pre-production for NPFTD, which would have been somewhere during spring 1990, so that's about 9 1/2 years that Smith was in and Gers wasn't.

It's not clear to me exactly when Gers joined.  NPFTD was recorded from June to September 1990, and Gers' first concert with Maiden was September 19, 1990.  Smith rejoined sometime in 1999, and his first concert after rejoining was July 11, 1999, so there was somewhere between 8 1/2 years to 9 years and a couple months that Gers was in and Smith wasn't.

I had in my head Adrian joining 81, but knew that was wrong after I thought about it.

Gers joined the night before they started recording NPFTD. Janick auditioned three days after Adrian was booted, and they started recording the next day.

Yeah, I knew it was pretty quick.  Gers with no writing credits and a Smith credit on the album lines up with that too.

[MirrorMask]

Since in this topic we recently discussed Dream Theater and Iron Maiden for whatever reason, let's make a crossover with the Judas Priest ranking thread.

The Green Manalishi has been brought up - how many of you did notice that during the end of Dr. Stein, when they play it live of course, they briefly touch the riff during the final "time is right" parts?

[wolfking]

I always thought the riff after the chorus was ripped off from Green Manalishi.

[TAC]

The Green Manalishi has been brought up - how many of you did notice that during the end of Dr. Stein, when they play it live of course, they briefly touch the riff during the final "time is right" parts?

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's definitely there, though tbh, I've never made the connection before.

We all know Kai loves his Judas Priest.

[wolfking]

The Green Manalishi has been brought up - how many of you did notice that during the end of Dr. Stein, when they play it live of course, they briefly touch the riff during the final "time is right" parts?

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's definitely there, though tbh, I've never made the connection before.

We all know Kai loves his Judas Priest.

That's funny, I noticed it the very first time I heard it and can never unhear it.

Kai is probably the biggest rip off king out there, but I love his little nods.

[TAC]

The Green Manalishi has been brought up - how many of you did notice that during the end of Dr. Stein, when they play it live of course, they briefly touch the riff during the final "time is right" parts?

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's definitely there, though tbh, I've never made the connection before.

We all know Kai loves his Judas Priest.

That's funny, I noticed it the very first time I heard it and can never unhear it.

Kai is probably the biggest rip off king out there, but I love his little nods.

I think it has a lot to do with me usually skipping Dr. Stein.

[wolfking]

The Green Manalishi has been brought up - how many of you did notice that during the end of Dr. Stein, when they play it live of course, they briefly touch the riff during the final "time is right" parts?

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's definitely there, though tbh, I've never made the connection before.

We all know Kai loves his Judas Priest.

That's funny, I noticed it the very first time I heard it and can never unhear it.

Kai is probably the biggest rip off king out there, but I love his little nods.

I think it has a lot to do with me usually skipping Dr. Stein.

It's a fun song, yet agree, skippable.  Certainly good for the live setting over the studio.

[wolfking]

Just thinking about Kai's love for his influences, there's quite a few;

Heading for Tomorrow - Victim of Changes (main riff)
Hand of Fate - Dissident Aggressor (verse)
Heart of the Unicorn - Painkiller (verse vocal melody)
Opportunity - The Clairvoyant (middle section)
Empress - Princess of the Dawn (all of it)
Insurrection - Exciter (melody during solo section)
To the Metal - Metal Gods (the whole fucking thing)
I think Real World it is he rips of the Sentinel in the middle.....


He also rips himself off too.  The melody from I Want Out is included in Heaven or Hell.

He loves Queen too.  The Silence has a direct melody from Somebody to Love I think it is.

Also check out 3:05 from Somewhere Out in Space and 2:18 from Helloweens Hey Lord.

[TAC]

Nice list. I was going to say that Gamma Ray is littered with Priest riffs.

I'm going to go through these tomorrow.

[wolfking]

Nice list. I was going to say that Gamma Ray is littered with Priest riffs.

I'm going to go through these tomorrow.

There's probably more, they were just off the top of my head.  The only one I checked was obviously the last one with the timestamp.

[wolfking]

Forgot Solid.  That's a legit Rapid Fire rip off.