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Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United

Started by wolfking, October 12, 2010, 03:52:06 AM

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TAC

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

wolfking

Not disappointed Tim, I'm use to the low rankings of the album.  As you say with the other six albums being so strong it has to fall somewhere.

I don't think any of those 5 songs would make my 25.  Also Tim, was that last sentence in the Madman paragraph meant to be under Swing instead?

TAC

Quote from: wolfking on August 26, 2019, 08:14:28 PM
Not disappointed Tim, I'm use to the low rankings of the album.  As you say with the other six albums being so strong it has to fall somewhere.

I don't think any of those 5 songs would make my 25.  Also Tim, was that last sentence in the Madman paragraph meant to be under Swing instead?

Yeah, I think I got my songs mixed up.   :facepalm:

You had better have a Top 25 ready when I finish!



As far as Rabbit, it's easy on the ears for sure, and I can see how it hits the spot.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

wolfking

Alright, I'll start thinking about a top 25.  I can't bitch about your choices, because just thinking about it makes me sweat with anxiety.  I remember we did this back in the day, I think for Bruce Dickinson solo songs and maybe a couple of other bands.  A shit load of us just went through a top 25, one after another, it was awesome.

TAC

It's more fun to go through this with you guys.

Quote from: wolfking on August 27, 2019, 03:48:06 AM
Alright, I'll start thinking about a top 25.  I can't bitch about your choices, because just thinking about it makes me sweat with anxiety

That's funny.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

TAC



20. Just A Little Sign (Rabbit Don't Come Easy)  (Deris)

Now this is Power Metal. Just how I like it. Strong vocals. So melodic. Fast playing.  My favorite part is the whoa whoa part right after the solo. Not much to complain about here.


19. Born On Judgement Day (Keeper: The Legacy) (Weikath)

This is a classic Helloween track. Could easily come out of the Kiske Era. This is a quality support tune for this album. I'd love to hear this song live, as it seems they don't play it. But I like it a lot, and it always seemed to be there every time there was a cut to be made.


18. My God Given Right (My God Given Right) (Deris)

The title track and final song representing this album. Another classic sounding  tune. The chorus totally earworms me. For the record, I love this song. It pains me to have it this low, but there's some tough competition here.


17. Hell Was Made In Heaven (Rabbit Don't Come Easy) (Deris/Grosskopf)

I feel this is actually a pretty powerful song. It is so melodic in both the verses and the chorus. The chorus is totally addicting. I love that it was played on the Legacy live album. An album closer in the third spot. It's a versatile song that fits anywhere. The slightly extended instrumental part is excellent.


16. We Damn The Night (The Dark Ride)  (Deris)

This is an awesome tune to crank it up in the car. The verse is steady and the chorus kicks ass.. Love the neoclassical solo from Roland. Even the whoa whoa part is cool. I've been screaming that on my way to work.


Albums...

6. 7 Sinners



This is a fucking heavy album. Lots of kick ass tunes. But this is one strong discography, and this just misses the Top 5. Songwriting contributions from all. I bought this when it came out, and I think I spent quite a few listens on it. Excellent album.



Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

wolfking

This is more like it.  A couple of these may find it's way onto my list.

TAC

#987
15. Listen To The Flies (Rabbit Don't Come Easy)  (Deris/Gerstner)

I actually think is the best song on the album. This song really gets me going. The chorus is a little different for them. Great instrumental break. I think this song totally rocks.


14. Church Breaks Down  (Straight Out Of Hell)  (Gerstner)

Somehow I managed to overlook this on my first pass through. While on a plane a couple weeks ago, this song came up, and I was like holy crap this tune's awesome. The riffs under the verses are marauding. Another chorus done classic Helloween style. Another amazing instrumental section where Sasha invokes his inner JP. Love this tune!


13. Kings Will Be Kings  (The Time Of The Oath)  (Weikath)

Excellent tune from The Oath. Another track that could've easily come from the Kiske Era. Classic Helloween. Nice unison in the solo section. This is the reason Power Metal will always look up to Helloween. They're the masters and this song is proof.


12. Long Live The King  (7 Sinners)  (Deris)

Time for an ass kicking! I love the vicious opening. This song is a total burner. Dani Loble plays some great bass drums on this album, as is evidenced on this. The mid section screams Judas Priest/Accept.  Killer!


11. The Bells Of The 7 Hells  (Gambling With The Devil)  (Deris)

So I think this is one of the coolest songs of the Era. It has a total King Diamond feel (especially the "God help me" part). Helloween is known for their Power Metal style, but they can pretty much out Heavy Metal anyone. This song is particularly bad ass. I also love the fact that this is a Deris penned track. Much respect to him. What I like about this song is that nobody takes a back seat. Both guitars, drums, bass, and vocals are all top notch and involved. I would love to know what everyone thinks of this song. I think it's a standout track hidden in the back half of this album.




5. The Time Of The Oath





If The Time Of The Oath was the first one out of the chute, then I might have never left Helloween behind. This is so much closer to Classic Helloween than Master Of The Rings. The band feels much more comfortable on this, their second release. I remember this getting great reviews, and I had this in my hands a number of times. I'm so sorry I didn't pull the trigger on this back in the day. This is a great album that would surely be a sign of what was to come.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

IDontNotDoThings

Quote from: TAC on August 28, 2019, 05:41:27 PM
15. Listen To The Flies (Rabbit Don't Come Easy)  (Deris/Gerstner)

A B-side that I actually think would be the best song on the album.


14. Church Breaks Down  (Straight Out Of Hell)  (Gerstner)

Another Bonus track making the list

Listen to the Flies and Church Breaks Down aren't B-Sides. Flies is track 11 on RDCE and Church is track 13 on SOOH. :huh:



(Edit: I apparently can't format quotes properly :lolpalm:)

jjrock88

Time of the Oath has so many kick ass tunes!  :metal

bl5150

Quote from: jjrock88 on August 28, 2019, 11:46:56 PM
Time of the Oath has so many kick ass tunes!  :metal

At the time I was really disappointed with it -  guess I should revisit as it seems to be almost universally liked.

jjrock88

Quote from: bl5150 on August 28, 2019, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: jjrock88 on August 28, 2019, 11:46:56 PM
Time of the Oath has so many kick ass tunes!  :metal

At the time I was really disappointed with it -  guess I should revisit as it seems to be almost universally liked.

Maybe a couple of filler tracks but a great release overall.

TAC

Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on August 28, 2019, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: TAC on August 28, 2019, 05:41:27 PM
15. Listen To The Flies (Rabbit Don't Come Easy)  (Deris/Gerstner)

A B-side that I actually think would be the best song on the album.


14. Church Breaks Down  (Straight Out Of Hell)  (Gerstner)

Another Bonus track making the list

Listen to the Flies and Church Breaks Down aren't B-Sides. Flies is track 11 on RDCE and Church is track 13 on SOOH. :huh:



(Edit: I apparently can't format quotes properly :lolpalm:)

:facepalm:
You're right I'm not sure why I had that in mind.  It's not like I don't have the CDs piled up in front of me.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

wolfking

Haha Helloween's bonus tracks are so good you can't even tell which ones are bonus tracks.

I never cared for Kings Will Be Kings.  Will need to relisten.  I better get listening Tim as you are flying through this.

Flies, King and Church are gold, Bells is solid.

TAC

Quote from: bl5150 on August 28, 2019, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: jjrock88 on August 28, 2019, 11:46:56 PM
Time of the Oath has so many kick ass tunes!  :metal

At the time I was really disappointed with it -  guess I should revisit as it seems to be almost universally liked.

So let me get this straight....
After Chameleon and Master, you were disappointed in The Oath??
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

devieira73

Quote from: jjrock88 on August 28, 2019, 11:46:56 PM
Time of the Oath has so many kick ass tunes!  :metal
Great album! But the production is terrible...I mean the recording and mixing. Master and Better than Raw are also great albums and sound much better IMO.

TAC

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

bl5150

Quote from: TAC on August 29, 2019, 05:00:40 AM
Quote from: bl5150 on August 28, 2019, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: jjrock88 on August 28, 2019, 11:46:56 PM
Time of the Oath has so many kick ass tunes!  :metal

At the time I was really disappointed with it -  guess I should revisit as it seems to be almost universally liked.

So let me get this straight....
After Chameleon and Master, you were disappointed in The Oath??

Outside of being a nice beer coaster Chameleon doesn't even count - I think I liked one song on it.

But Master Of The Rings I liked.............although up and down I thought the better tracks like Soul Survivor hinted at what could be a great next album.   From memory (and it's been a long time) I went into "Oath" with big expectations but struggled to find anything catchy on it.

TAC

First Time is amazing musically except for the dumb ass lyrics, which I believe were written by Kiske. He was obviously in full fuck it mode by then.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

The Walrus

The whole band was at that time. It's obvious  :loser:

jjrock88

When it comes to Chameleon I think Windmill might be one of the worst Helloween songs, but Giants would be one of the best Helloween songs in their entire discography. That album is all over the place

TAC

Giants is awesome.


I may not do it right away, but my ultimate goal is to merge the two eras into one list.


I remember that Chameleon was not released here. I had a VHS bootleg of the tour, and they played like 8 or 9 songs from it. I dubbed the Chameleon tracks from the show onto a cassette so I could listen to the songs in the car. I remember really liking the When The Sinner live version, but the studio version kind of blows.
As a Kiske fan, I really like In The Night and Longing. But they are definitely not Helloween songs.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

bl5150

That's the one..............Giants was the one track I ever listened to.

ZKX-2099

Windmill is a bit corny but I enjoy all of Chameleon.

TAC

The only way I can get through Chameleon is thinking that it's a half Kiske solo album, and a half Helloween album. Windmill falls onto the Kiske side.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

The Walrus

And Kiske falls on the floor. At least at the show I went to. :neverusethis:

Art


IDontNotDoThings

Chameleon is an underrated masterpiece. Perfect example of a band exploring a new sound gracefully. I love every song on that album - especially First Time, When The Sinner, Giants, I Believe, and Longing.

Quote from: TAC on August 29, 2019, 06:39:40 AM
First Time is amazing musically except for the dumb ass lyrics, which I believe were written by Kiske. He was obviously in full fuck it mode by then.

First Time is solely credited to Weikath, both lyrics and music.

TAC

#1008
10. Back On The Ground (Better Than Raw) (Kusch/Deris)

Pretty sure this is an actual Bonus Track.. This song jumped out at me right away. As good as this song is, it's the instrumental part that totally turns this from a good song to a great song. A mesmerizing section for sure. Two of the best minutes in the entire catalog.


9. The Time Of The Oath (The Time Of The Oath)  (Grapow/Deris)

I hate mid tempo stuff, but this has a pace that keeps things moving and interesting. This would've made a great Dio tune. It's quite different for Helloween, but this is proof of their versatility. I so regret not buying this album back in the day. This song reminds me of Zeppelin and Rainbow, but especially Martin Era Black Sabbath. What's cool is that while it has a classic hard rock feel, the solos are unmistakably Helloween. Awesome tune.


8. Paint A New World (Gambling With The Devil)  (Gerstner/Weikath)

This song rips. There were a couple of nights during this exercise that I was waking up in the middle of the night with this chorus earworming me. And I just want to say that I am a huge Dani Loble fan. This guy is as steady AF. Not much to point out, other than this totally hits the spot for me.


7. Midnight Sun  (Better Than Raw)  (Weikath)

On first listen here, I knew this song was going to place high. Great and simple chorus but very memorable. Awesome solo section done Helloween style. Love how the song transitions at the end of the solos. I also like how in the chorus the beat goes double. Excellent tune.


6. The Dark Ride  (The Dark Ride)  (Grapow)

Fittingly written by Roland Grapow, I feel like this is the highlight of the entire Grapow Era. I mean, I have a lifetime with the Pink Bubbles album, as well as Giants from Chameleon as we have discussed today.  But I think if I set the clock at zero, this is it.
What's cool about this song is that it's like two songs in one. For the first 5 minutes, I'm thinking man, this song is a rocker. And then once the guitar ends and it moves towards the outro, I'm like Holy Shit this song is epic! Great tune that narrowly missed the Top 5.



So Albums 3 & 4 are a virtual tie. These are so close, and probably the closest that consecutive albums come in this list. I truly like them both equally.

4. The Dark Ride




3. Better Than Raw

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

TAC

Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on August 29, 2019, 06:48:54 PM
First Time is solely credited to Weikath, both lyrics and music.

I'm not sure how I had that wrong. In my head I remember being so disappointed by the lyrics, and for some reason I thought Kiske was responsible.


Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on August 29, 2019, 06:48:54 PM
Chameleon is an underrated masterpiece. Perfect example of a band exploring a new sound gracefully. I love every song on that album - especially First Time, When The Sinner, Giants, I Believe, and Longing.

To me it sounds like a band splitting apart. There's the Kiske side and the Weikath side. I am a huge Kiske guy, so I can live with many of the songs, but the Keepers albums are masterpieces. This isn't in their league. At all.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

bl5150

The Dark Ride (again from memory way back) was a weird album for me.  I had heard great things about it and by track 6 or 7 I was thinking "this is just okay" and then the last 5 or so tracks kicked my butt  ;D

TAC

It's basically tied for 3rd in a 10 album list, so I really like it a lot.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

wolfking

That's a great update.  5 rippers right there.

The Walrus

"All over the nations the Jews come alive..."

TAC

5. Hey Lord  (Better Than Raw)  (Deris)

I feel like you guys might be surprised by this pick, but I love this song. I love the instrumental melodic part of the chorus. Great solo by Weiki too. Minimal, but really strong. I can't place what it reminds me of. Anyway, This song gets stuck in my head, and I've been known to scream the chorus in my car.


4. Dreambound (Gambling With The Devil)  (Gerstner/Weikath)

I must say that Sasha and Weiki make a great team. With so many great tunes to choose from, it's hard to explain how this one stands out to me. The chorus gives me goosebumps. The "You'll change my dream" part gets me going. The guitar solo section fucking rips. This song has the steady verse, fantastic chorus, and a beastly solo section. I could listen to this song all day.


3. King For 1000 Years  (Keeper: The Legacy)  (All)

Right after I bought this  shortly after its release, I can remember listening to King with the lyrics out while waiting outside my sons' school. This song never really clicked. I felt it was such a bloated attempt at an epic, stealing the Keepers theme. This song has so many great parts. Tons of great rhythms and a very nice gallop throughout. Great instrumental section showing their versatility. This song stays so consistently strong, and the last minute is amazing.


2. Power  (The Time Of the Oath)  (Weikath)

This has always been the most recognizable song of the Deris Era for me, even when everything else failed to register. This is just a fantastic song all the way through. When they played it on the Pumpkins United tour, I went out of my mind. The joy in Andi's voice was so evident. I think this is one of their most perfect and succinctly written songs.


1. Occasion Avenue  (Keeper: The Legacy) (Deris)

I wish I could remember what my original thoughts were when I first heard this years ago. I know I would've thought the title was stupid, and that Kiske samples were lame and cheap. But during this exercise, this song has stood out above them all. I've been particularly enjoying the Live On Three Continents DVD version. The shot of Markus on the riser during the intro is so epic. He's amazing by the way, which obviously is not a new revelation. I really like the effects of the ghostly background vocals. Another track where Dani shines. Great songwriting by Andi. A very well conceived and constructed track. Just pure goodness throughout.  The "I pray for all us people" part is eargasmic. I proudly proclaim Occasion Avenue as my favorite Deris Era song!


And finally the last two albums..


2. Gambling With The Devil




This is a great album. Probably their heaviest of the Deris Era after 7 Sinners. So many great songs. I think it placed four songs in the Top 25 and many more made the original cut. It has an absolutely brutal production, but that's not something I ever hold against the tunes.


1. Keeper: The Legacy



I've said before, but calling the album after Keeper Of The Seven Keys was always weak to me. I guess I always thumbed my nose at it. I thought King Of 1000 Years was a fake epic to me.
Well, I couldn't have been more wrong. There's not a weak track on the entire double album. An absolutely tremendous effort.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol