Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United

[Mladen]

That just has to be the song of the year. 

[TAC]

So last night I was watching Helloween on youtube. I was watching clips of the Pumpkins United tour. This show was one of my all time favorite concerts I have ever seen. In terms of anticipation, performance, and on stage camaraderie, it was amazing.

It's always tricky when a band brings back an old singer (VH, Anthrax). There's always bruised egos and such. But what was amazing was the respect that Kiske really gave to Deris and Kai gave to Sasha. It was a truly incredible experience.

I'm so stoked that they are ALL making the next Helloween album.

So that all led me to this...Even though I do own all of the Deris albums, I am really not all that versed in them. I've bought them all, listened a couple of times, and put them down, grabbing one very occasionally for a one and done listen. If you were to ask me what my Top 10 Deris Era tracks were, embarrassingly, I couldn't say.

I've never been crazy about his voice. It's not a Kiske thing. I ordered the two advance CD singles of Mr Ego and Perfect Gentleman as soon as they were available. Frankly, it wasn't Helloween.


Anyway, I am doing a "deep dive" on the Deris albums this week. Going through the 4 Grapow/Kusch albums tonight. I think The Time Of The Oath is the standout of the four.

[wolfking]

Good post Tim.

For me, if you asked what my Top 10 Seris tracks would be, I couldn't tell you because there are just too many that could make the cut.

[Polarbear]

Good post Tim.

For me, if you asked what my Top 10 Seris tracks would be, I couldn't tell you because there are just too many that could make the cut.

Same for me!

But if you asked me, then i'd say the strongest Grapow/Kush era album is Better Than Raw. Best album of the pre-reunion Gerstner/Löble era for me is either Keeper Legacy, or Gambling With The Devil.

[MirrorMask]

Of course tastes are tastes and anyone can dislike Deris' voice or the songs written with him as much as they like, but I feel that more than anyone else Deris has a thankless job and is a very underrated singer.

First of all, he saved Helloween in 1994, if he hadn't joined, the band probably wouldn't have gone on. Yeah, call it PR but the band was really in a down mode at the end of 1993 and their mindset was "If we can't get someone we can trust in the band there's no point in going on".
Then he's a singer with a specific voice, like it or hate it but he's no Kiske clone or anyone's clone, he has his own voice and style and - for better or worse - you can't find anyone else like him in the scene.
Another important factor is that he's a damn good songwriter, so he brings definitively a lot to the table creatively.
And finally, and this can't be stressed enough, he's a great frontman. Always entertaining and able to work up a crowd. I'd daresay that, if you don't consider the gods of the genre like Bruce Dickinson, he's actually THE best frontman in metal.

So, as I said like it or hate it, but Deris saved Helloween and contributed strongly to the band ever since he joined. And what does he get for his troubles? complaints for the way he sings song written for a teenager with an inhuman voice.

I bet he's the first one out of all the fans who's glad that Kiske's back, so he can finally stop to sing Eagle Fly Free and get shit for it 

[Mladen]

Deris is great. Although I am a younger fan, I have also started with the Kiske albums and struggled a bit at first to get into Andi's voice. But once I did, boy, did I fall in love with it. Every time I saw him live, he delivered in every way. Of course, his contributions in terms of songwriting have also been amazing.

If I tried to pick my ten favorite songs from the Deris era, I think these would be the ones, chronologically:

Where the rain grows
Forever and one (Neverland)
A Handful of pain
Midnight sun
The Departed (Sun is going down)
The King for 1000 years
Occasion avenue
As long as I fall
Fallen to pieces
The Sage, the fool, the sinner

[wolfking]

Not a bad list MIaden.  A few I'd probably have and a few different ones like the last 3 there that wouldn't make my cut but great songs.  I might have a crack.

[The Walrus]

I always liked Derisween more than Kiskeween. But I even liked Kaiween more than Kiskeween.

[MoraWintersoul]

Then he's a singer with a specific voice, like it or hate it but he's no Kiske clone or anyone's clone, he has his own voice and style and - for better or worse - you can't find anyone else like him in the scene.

I always thought of him as the LaBrie of the power metal scene. Not just because of the superficial similarities, but because I genuinely feel sorry for the people who feel turned off by their voices in the same way that I feel sorry for the people whose tastebuds turn the taste of some greens into the taste of soap 

[pg1067]

Here's a Helloween question 30 years in the making:

In the song "Halloween," right before the guitar solo, there's sort of a devil/angel back-and-forth section (right after the line, "redeemed or enslaved").  According to the lyrics sheet, the "devil's" first line is "I'll show you passion and glory," but I'll be damned if he's actually saying "glory."  Anyone know what is really being said?  Or is it actually "glory" that is completely unintelligible because of the effects?

Just watched the 87 Minneapolis show on YouTube, and Weiki clearly says "glory".
It's true on the album it's pretty much indecipherable.

By the way, if there was a better song released in 1987, I don't know what it was.

Not sure there was one.

Although Whitesnake's Still Of The Night was pretty strong too.

Live is, of course, a different story.

Still of the Night is a really good song, but it can't hold a candle to Halloween.

[TAC]

I agree.

I used to drive around with a mix tape that had both songs on it.

[The Walrus]

I think Deris hit his stride in the 00s. To me 90s Helloween was them floundering around, and although the 00s weren't exactly consistent, I think it had Deris's best material by a country mile: The Dark Ride, Gambling With The Devil, even Straight Out Of Hell and Rabbit Don't Come Easy had some great songs.

[jjrock88]

I like the Deris versions of The Chance, Dr. Stein and Future World off of the High Live album.  That's a really cool live album but I think it could have been a bit longer, maybe 3-4 extra Kiske era songs thrown in.

I personally found a drop off in quality in the Deris albums after The Dark Ride.  The first four with him are awesome; after that, I found there to be a bit more filler on the albums with him.

But a new album with everyone involved just has to be epic.

[TAC]

For me, if you asked what my Top 10 Deris tracks would be, I couldn't tell you because there are just too many that could make the cut.

I've created a document to help me keep a list of the best songs from each album as I get through them. I'm on Day 2 of the Grapow albums, and I've listed 5-7 songs I really like off of each album. Some great tunes on these first 4 albums.

Of course tastes are tastes and anyone can dislike Deris' voice or the songs written with him as much as they like, but I feel that more than anyone else Deris has a thankless job and is a very underrated singer.

First of all, he saved Helloween in 1994, if he hadn't joined, the band probably wouldn't have gone on. Yeah, call it PR but the band was really in a down mode at the end of 1993 and their mindset was "If we can't get someone we can trust in the band there's no point in going on".
Then he's a singer with a specific voice, like it or hate it but he's no Kiske clone or anyone's clone, he has his own voice and style and - for better or worse - you can't find anyone else like him in the scene.
Another important factor is that he's a damn good songwriter, so he brings definitively a lot to the table creatively.
And finally, and this can't be stressed enough, he's a great frontman. Always entertaining and able to work up a crowd. I'd daresay that, if you don't consider the gods of the genre like Bruce Dickinson, he's actually THE best frontman in metal.

So, as I said like it or hate it, but Deris saved Helloween and contributed strongly to the band ever since he joined. And what does he get for his troubles? complaints for the way he sings song written for a teenager with an inhuman voice.

Yeah, and just so we're all clear, I wasn't in love with Deris' voice because he was not NOT Kiske. I mean, no one is. Like I mentioned, when I saw the Mr Ego and Perfect Gentleman singles available I JUMPED at them. I was so pumped for new Helloween, even with e new singer. But I just didn't like his voice, nothing against him.

But he is amazingly versatile and very strong vocally. The more I truly familiarize myself with him, the more accepting I am. Deris Era Helloween isn't new to me, but I've been really casual about it.


I have actually said a number of times before that I have enormous respect for Andi Deris. He has given Helloween a remarkable second half of a career. Even calling it a "second half" is disrespectful. He really seems like a great guy too.

[TAC]

Where the rain grows
Forever and one (Neverland)
A Handful of pain
Midnight sun
The Departed (Sun is going down)

Of these 5 Grapow Era songs, only Midnight Sun made my first cut. But it is an amazing track, and likely a Top 5 of that era for me as well.

[TAC]

So after listening to the Grapow Era, these are the tracks that make the cut.

Master Of The Rings seems to be the weakest. Perhaps as a band, they just didn't quite gel yet. But damn, all of these songs are freaking excellent.


Master Of The Rings
Sole Survivor
Still We Go

The Time Of The Oath
We Burn
Steel Tormentor
Power
Before The War
Kings Will Be Kings
Mission Motherland
The Time Of The Oath

Better Than Raw
Falling Higher
Hey Lord
Don't Spit On My Mind
Revelation
Time
Midnight Sun
Back On The Ground

The Dark Ride
All Over The Nations
Salvation
We Damn The Night
Immortal
The Dark Ride

[MirrorMask]

I have actually said a number of times before that I have enormous respect for Andi Deris. He has given Helloween a remarkable second half of a career. Even calling it a "second half" is disrespectful. He really seems like a great guy too.

Yeah, I never met him but from interviews and DVDs he really gives the idea of being nice, polite and all around a great guy.

Also, the weirdest thing, he's the only singer that seems to me a totally different person when he speaks. I just can't reconcile his speaking voice during interviews with his singing voice, or even when he's speaking from the stage. Everyone else more or less you realize, when you hear them speak, how it's related to their voice, but speaking Deris and singing Deris (or, as I said, talking-on-stage Deris) seem to me two different persons.

I'd also like to point out that the guy lives in Tenerife, so his life basically is:
- When there's nothing to do, chilling in Tenerife
- When there's a new album to record, still chilling in Tenerife because he owns a studio there
- When it's time to leave, it's to tour the world and play concerts in front of cheering fans

So, as a big fan of him I'm unhappy at reading around (not here, I'm speaking in general) negative comments about him, but I'm sure that a bad comment from RandomYouTuber666 "really" gets under his skin when he's sitting with his balls on the ocean sipping on a drink 

[Art]

I love the Deris Era, esecially the Grapow/Kusch albums. A great b-side is A Game We Shouldn't Play, from BTR.

BTR is my favorite Deris-era album, and top 3 Helloween career-wise for me.

[The Walrus]

My favorite Deris songs/moments are the ones where he leans into the Halford-style screaming. World of War, Burning Sun, We Damn The Night, Kill it - some of the absolute best moments in Helloween's discography are the ones when Deris is screaming like a banshee.

[Mladen]

I have to add Push to that already awesome list. That screaming on the verses is out of this world, I've never heard anything like it.

[Art]

Push is badass! 

[wolfking]

I have to add Push to that already awesome list. That screaming on the verses is out of this world, I've never heard anything like it.

This is a top 3 Deris song at least.  Fucking brilliant.

[The Walrus]

I forgot all about Push. Playing it now. Yup, this is a fucking banger for sure. Good call.

[TAC]

I actually don't like Push at all. That chorus is brutal.

[The Walrus]

I actually don't like Push at all. That chorus is brutal.

I think the production is the bigger criminal here! I still can't understand a fucking word Deris is singing.

[wolfking]

I actually don't like Push at all. That chorus is brutal.

Brutal! 

What do you mean exactly by brutal Tim?  I'm guessing brutally painful? Why is that?

I love the lyrics.  Way more relevant now than 20 years ago when released.

[wolfking]

Got Better Than Raw on in the car this morning on the way to work.   

[TAC]

I actually don't like Push at all. That chorus is brutal.

Brutal! 

What do you mean exactly by brutal Tim?  I'm guessing brutally painful? Why is that?

I love the lyrics.  Way more relevant now than 20 years ago when released.

Brutal as in unpleasant to listen to. I don't have a problem with the verses, but that chorus is so jarring.

I'm listening to The Dark Ride again tonight. I want to hit these for another day before moving on.

Better Than Raw is excellent. Including Back On the Ground, it had 7 tracks make "the cut".

I have it in the van as well. I'll be listening on my way to work in the morning!

[wolfking]

I actually don't like Push at all. That chorus is brutal.

Brutal! 

What do you mean exactly by brutal Tim?  I'm guessing brutally painful? Why is that?

I love the lyrics.  Way more relevant now than 20 years ago when released.

Brutal as in unpleasant to listen to. I don't have a problem with the verses, but that chorus is so jarring.

I'm listening to The Dark Ride again tonight. I want to hit these for another day before moving on.

Better Than Raw is excellent. Including Back On the Ground, it had 7 tracks make "the cut".

I have it in the van as well. I'll be listening on my way to work in the morning!

Back on the Ground is a wonderful bonus track.  Helloween have some of the strongest bonus tracks I know from any band.

Not sure Tim but while you're listening to The Dark Ride, try and get the bonus tracks, Madness of the Crowds and Deliver Us From Temptation.

[TAC]

Thanks Kade. My CD doesn't have those. I will hunt them down tomorrow!

[The Walrus]

Oh man, how did I forget Deliver Us From Temptation? That song is just Another Deris belter. Pure metal. BODY CRYYY

[MirrorMask]

And what about Madness of the Crowds? that really deserves the definition of brutal 

[wolfking]

Yep, that's why I mentioned both.  Both fucking rip. 

Oh, and Time is a wonderful, moody underrated tune from the band.  What a great track.

[TAC]

Time made my cut!!


I freaking love Hey Lord!

[ShadowWalker]

So after listening to the Grapow Era, these are the tracks that make the cut.

Master Of The Rings seems to be the weakest. Perhaps as a band, they just didn't quite gel yet. But damn, all of these songs are freaking excellent.

Interesting. Master of the Rings is my second favorite Helloween album after Keeper Part 2