Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United

[wolfking]

from SOOH, these are the ones I could do without:

World of War
Make Fire Catch the Fly

Wow!

[The Walrus]

Helloween is one of the most inconsistent 'big' metal bands around. It's like they'll release one really good album and then put out duds for a few years before coming back with something awesome.

I disagree. I find them incredibly consistent.

Chameleon is a dud, but that was a totally fractured band at that point. I'm going chronologically through the Deris albums, and SOOH is the only one so far I feel is a notch below. Every other ranges from very good to excellent.

Yeah I strongly disagree with that too.  Besides MGGR, everything from the Deris era IMO is excellent.

Unfortunately they never figured out production. 7 Sinners sounds great, but literally every other record is poorly produced imo.

[TAC]

Just finished two listens to My God Given Right, and honestly, I think I'm good. Easily the weakest Deris album.

I could really only pick 4 songs to make the cut, but I can't see them making it past the last round.

My God Given Right

Heroes
My God Given Right
Swing Of A Fallen World
Creatures In Heaven
Claws

[The Walrus]

Kind of surprised not to see Claws on there, honestly. I remember reading a lot of opinions when the album was fresh and that generally seemed to be one of the crowd favorites.

Can we talk about that album art for a sec? It really looks like it came out of 1994. 

[TAC]

Kind of surprised not to see Claws on there, honestly.

Fixed. I forgot to add that.  Another track that isn't making past the next cut though.

[TAC]

So, in my quest to create a Deris Era Top 10, I have chosen 64 songs to represent their respective albums in the next round.

Oh boy, this is going to be tough...

I think my next choice is to get down to 24 or 30.



Master Of The Rings

Sole Survivor
Still We Go



The Time Of The Oath

We Burn
Steel Tormentor
Power
Before The War
Kings Will Be Kings
Mission Motherland
The Time Of The Oath



Better Than Raw

Falling Higher
Hey Lord
Don't Spit On My Mind
Revelation
Time
Midnight Sun
Back On The Ground


The Dark Ride

All Over The Nations
Salvation
We Damn The Night
Immortal
The Dark Ride
Maddening Of The Crowds
Delinering Us From Evil


Rabbit Don't Come Easy

Just A Little Sign
Open Your Life
The Tune
Sun 4 The World
Hell Was Made In Heaven
Listen To The Flies


Keeper: The Legacy

King For 1000 Years
The Invisible Man
Born On Judgement Day
Pleasure Drone
Silent Rain

Occasion Avenue
Do You Know What You Are Fighting For
The Shade In The Shadow
My Life For One More Day


Gambling With The Devil

The Saints
Paint A New World
Final Fortune
The Bells Of The 7 Hells
Dreambound
Heaven Tells No Lies
We Unite
Find My Freedom
See The Night


7 Sinners

Who Is Mr. Madman?
Long Live The King
You Stupid Mankind
If A Mountain Could Talk
My Sacrifice
Far In The Future
I'm Free

Straight Out Of Hell

World Of War
Burning Sun
Waiting For The Thunder
Years
Make Fire Catch The Fly


My God Given Right

Heroes
My God Given Right
Swing Of A Fallen World
Creatures In Heaven
Claws

[The Walrus]

I can mostly get down with that list. Very nice. Good luck narrowing it down past that though!   

[wolfking]

Good luck Tim.  You've got quite a task ahead of you.

[Mladen]

I'm still baffled by seeing only two songs from MOTR in the selection. There is so much gold on that record. I'd have a hard time picking two songs I don't like as much.

[MirrorMask]

I Can and Straight Out of Hell are huge omissions for me but otherwise great list.

[NotePad]

Back on the Ground is a great song with a nontraditional structure. should have made the full album.

[Polarbear]

Regarding My God-Given Right;

I have a hunch that the reunion was already locked in at that point, but they had recently inked a deal with Nuclear Blast, and thus were contractually obligated in doing a studio album in a reasonable timeframe. That meant that My God-Given Right ended up being a hastily thrown together album, just to meet with the terms of the record deal.

A lot of the tracks on MGGR feel like b sides, and i have a feeling that is for a reason. All of this is speculation on my part!

With that being said, i really like "Creatures in Heaven"! It's catchy and has a uplifting feel to it, not to mention some great guitar parts. If only it were on a better album...

[Mladen]

It's interesting that they had no less than thirteen songs to go for a "hastily thrown together" album. That's a lot of songs. I think they worked on it as hard as they did on the other ones, but for some reason, it didn't work as well.

[wolfking]

Back on the Ground is a great song with a nontraditional structure. should have made the full album.

Agree.

[TAC]

Good luck Tim.  You've got quite a task ahead of you.

Yes! So I really used to roll my eyes when someone said, there are so many good tunes, I can't pick a favorite.

The thing is, there are a lot of great tunes, even though nothing really spine tingles me. But they are all equally damn f'n good.

[TAC]

I'm still baffled by seeing only two songs from MOTR in the selection. There is so much gold on that record. I'd have a hard time picking two songs I don't like as much.

I think it's pretty weak compared to the rest of the discog. I don't love Perfect Gentleman but it was great live and showed the camaraderie of the band.

Just gave it another listen to see what moves on.

Master Of The Rings

Sole Survivor
Still We Go


And even though Still We Go moves on, it's doubtful it makes it past the next round of cut downs.


The Time Of The Oath

We Burn
Steel Tormentor
Power
Before The War
Kings Will Be Kings
Mission Motherland
The Time Of The Oath


I feel like the band was more in a groove on their second album together. Oath feels way more cohesive than Rings.

Pretty confident Power makes it all the way to the Top 10.



What do you guys think of The Time Of The Oath (the song)? I originally had it crossed out, but uncrossed it as I was listening. It doesn't hit you over the head, but that is one solid tune. It would make a great Dio song. Not sure how far it will ultimately get, but that could be a sleeper.

[IDontNotDoThings]

It's interesting that they had no less than thirteen songs to go for a "hastily thrown together" album. That's a lot of songs. I think they worked on it as hard as they did on the other ones, but for some reason, it didn't work as well.

I'm still confused at what y'all have against MGGR, but I should mention that (according to the album's Wikipedia page and its citation) they had 33-34 songs written, but got someone else from the record label to choose which songs went on the album, as they didn't want to be biased in choosing them.

Interestingly, that means that aside from the 13 album tracks and 5 bonus tracks, there are another 15-16 songs that still have yet to see the light of day.

[wolfking]

What do you guys think of The Time Of The Oath (the song)? I originally had it crossed out, but uncrossed it as I was listening. It doesn't hit you over the head, but that is one solid tune. It would make a great Dio song. Not sure how far it will ultimately get, but that could be a sleeper.

Really good and something a bit different.  Always been a big fan.  Not sure it's top 10 material, but a great song.

[MirrorMask]

What do you guys think of The Time Of The Oath (the song)? I originally had it crossed out, but uncrossed it as I was listening. It doesn't hit you over the head, but that is one solid tune. It would make a great Dio song. Not sure how far it will ultimately get, but that could be a sleeper.

It's a great song, an epic and eerie piece that works well as a title track and as a preview of "darker" Helloween. Great song, I'm glad I got to hear it live but they'll probably never play it again 'cause Grapow wrote it...

[jjrock88]

I still think in regards to the Deris era of Helloween, his first four albums with the band are the best. I have no problem with anyone loving anything from Rabbit-MGGR, I definitely like a lot of the material too. But I remember the first time I listened to Rabbit and I thought this was a big downgrade from the other Deris albums and I never changed my mind.  I had that same thought for every subsequent release too

[wolfking]

I still think in regards to the Deris era of Helloween, his first four albums with the band are the best. I have no problem with anyone loving anything from Rabbit-MGGR, I definitely like a lot of the material too. But I remember the first time I listened to Rabbit and I thought this was a big downgrade from the other Deris albums and I never changed my mind.  I had that same thought for every subsequent release too

I would have thought Gambling and 7 Sinners would be up your alley mate.

[MirrorMask]

Found out that today it's also Weiki's birthday! he shares it with Bruce Dickinson 

[TAC]

Found out that today it's also Weiki's birthday! he shares it with Bruce Dickinson 

And he doesn't look too happy about it. 

[NotePad]

i actually love SOoH, and feel MGGR is their weakest album in a long time.
anyone else feel the production on Gambling is weak? it's a great album, like they did the Helloween version of Painkiller, but the production quality sucks.

[The Walrus]

i actually love SOoH, and feel MGGR is their weakest album in a long time.
anyone else feel the production on Gambling is weak? it's a great album, like they did the Helloween version of Painkiller, but the production quality sucks.

I personally don't think the production on Gambling is weak, but there is some weird processing going on with a lot of Andi's vocals in some songs. There's a treble-y sound to the mix that I kind of like particularly on songs like Final Fortune which is a SUPER underrated track imo, but I can understand people not liking the way Gambling sounds. There is something different about it.

[MoraWintersoul]

Sole Survivor
We Burn
Steel Tormentor

wtf, these are all my favorites! 

[TAC]

OK...been travelling. Finishing the first cuts on the next two albums, wrapping up the Grapow Era.

Better Than Raw

Falling Higher
Hey Lord
Don't Spit On My Mind
Revelation
Time
Midnight Sun
Back On The Ground


The Dark Ride

All Over The Nations
Salvation
We Damn The Night
Immortal
The Dark Ride
The Madness Of The Crowds
Delinering Us From Evil



I wanted to move the Dark Ride songs through, but honestly, I'm not sure how much further they will get.

Hey Lord is likely making it to the Top 10.

[TAC]

So, these would be my Top 16 of the Grapow Era..


Master Of The Rings

Still We Go

The Time Of The Oath

Power
Before The War
Kings Will Be Kings
Mission Motherland
The Time Of The Oath

Better Than Raw

Falling Higher
Hey Lord
Don't Spit On My Mind
Midnight Sun
Back On The Ground

The Dark Ride

All Over The Nations
Salvation
We Damn The Night
Immortal
The Dark Ride


On to the next 6 albums..

[ZKX-2099]

Opinion immediately invalidated due to lack of PUSH!

[Samsara]

hey everyone. I am sorry to interrupt the current thread, but I have a couple of questions regarding United Alive's release, and hoping someone with more knowledge can help me.

First, the Blu-Ray release only appears to be available in the UK and EU. I visited amazon.co.uk to buy it (I live in the United States), but noticed it was being released in Region B2. I did some cursory looking around at whether that region will play, but I don't remember the model number of my Samsung 4K Blu-Ray player I use, and my other two Blu-Ray players are PS4 and PS3 game systems, respectively. Some my long-winded question is, does anyone know if Region B2 will for sure play in a Samsung 4k Blu-Ray player (without me knowing off-hand the model number)? I don't want to spend and then pop it in and it not play.

Second, I pre-ordered the Orange Vinyl box set the day it was available (how can you be a Helloween fan with a turntable and NOT buy the orange - lol). But I can't see if the vinyl set will include a download card. I generally now listen to only vinyl at home, and listen to digital everywhere else (my CDs are displayed and racked on a huge wall, but I can't tell you the last time I did anything with a CD other than rip it to digital). So, I need to know if I have to fork over an extra 15 bucks for the digital version, or if my vinyl box will contain a digital download card in it. Does anyone know?

Missing the Los Angeles show was one of the biggest concert disappointments of my life (I had a family issue come up, and while I could have still gone, it would have been the wrong decision to do so), and to-date, I still haven't listened to Helloween because I just get all upset over missing one of my favorite singers (Kiske) sing songs from two of my favorite records (Keeper 1 and 2). I am NOT missing them if/when they come back again. Anyway, I am excited to get the United Alive release(s) and enjoy them, and just want to make sure of what I need to purchase.

Thanks gang.

B

[gazinwales]

I would doubt there would be a download card, NB releases very rarely contain them at all.
If it did it would surely state this on their website.

No idea about the BR, my old Samsung BR player would play anything but B1 BR discs

[The Walrus]

Samsara, sorry to hear about that. I have no idea if you'll have a download code or not but the USA Nuclear Blast website has the 2 Blu-ray version for sale...

https://shop.nuclearblast.com/en/products/sound/dvd-bluray/2bluray/helloween-united-alive-2br-.html

[Samsara]

Samsara, sorry to hear about that. I have no idea if you'll have a download code or not but the USA Nuclear Blast website has the 2 Blu-ray version for sale...

https://shop.nuclearblast.com/en/products/sound/dvd-bluray/2bluray/helloween-united-alive-2br-.html

Thanks on that. Weird that it's not on US Amazon then. And on the Helloween website, it does not have a link to a US-based version to buy. Appreciate the link. I'll buy it there.

I would doubt there would be a download card, NB releases very rarely contain them at all.
If it did it would surely state this on their website.

No idea about the BR, my old Samsung BR player would play anything but B1 BR discs

Thanks for the info. I guess they'll be getting three purchases from me. The Blu-Ray set, the Vinyl set, and a download. Damn this is an expensive band. 

[TAC]

Opinion immediately invalidated due to lack of PUSH!

It's the chorus, man. The rest of the song is pretty intense, but the chorus lets it down big time for me.

[TAC]

So I'm listening to Keeper: The Legacy tonight and I had this thought.


What do you guys think about the upcoming album? Any chance it's built on the Keeper concept?

Perhaps the tour could be Keeper promoted pulling tracks from the 1st two albums, as well as The Legacy and New Album.


There are spots in King Of 1000 Years that would fit Kai perfectly, and in Occasion Avenue where Kiske could slide into.