Author Topic: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United  (Read 120960 times)

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Online TAC

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1505 on: June 23, 2021, 07:37:43 PM »
I'm still torn on this album.  I'm struggling with it a little to be honest.  I'll post more later.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1506 on: June 23, 2021, 08:12:26 PM »
Iíll put some thoughts down now while I can at work while it's running through my head.  As I mentioned before, I appreciate the reunion and understand that it had to happen and happy that it did.  I discovered Helloween when I picked up the Dark Ride as a blind purchase as it was discounted.  Iíd heard earlier songs before like Eagle Fly Free, but I wasnít prepared for that happier sounding style of metal just yet.  The Dark Ride blew me away and it was around the time Rabbit Donít Come Easy was getting released.  That album is probably still my fav Helloween album.  I know thatís a polarizing opinion but itís nostalgia for me.  I started to appreciate the happier sounding stuff while maintaining the heaviness.  I loved Derisí voice too.  This allowed me to start to go back through and get into the Keeper albums and along with Jericho.  I followed Helloween from that album forward and itís been a pleasure.

Ever album has been a winner in my book.  MGGR was pretty underwhelming though but it has its moments.  I had no real expectations for this album and since I wasnít that excited with the reunion or the Alive show to be honest, I had no real anticipation for this one.  Listening to it a few times now, the production is hard for me to get past.  I think it quite frankly, sounds like shit.  Itís flat, lifeless and has no punch or power and IMO itís mixed pretty poorly.  Helloween since Rabbit have never had great production for some reason but I always seemed to look past it.  Iím finding it hard to look past here.  The mesh of vocals and guitars I think makes it sound messier and cluttered more than what it needs to be.  The songs are good.  But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.  Even though my anticipation was low, I thought with Kiske and Kai back, it would be a more collaborative writing effort with some more classic trademarks.  This album is a perfect continuation of MGGR in my eyes but it just feels Kiske is there because of the reunion.  Kaiís backing vocals at times are a nice touch but you wouldnít know heís there and it seems he had to write Skyfall IMO to warrant his involvement.

So, honestly, I love Kiske, but I think Iíd like this album better if it were just the five guys, but thatís more likely my issue but as I said, canít help they are there just because.  The makeup and writing of the album doesnít seem to mesh with the whole reunion aspect in my book.  Donít get me wrong, the songs are great and Iíll keep coming back to it, but yeah, the production hurts it a lot.  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

Offline Pettor

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1507 on: June 24, 2021, 12:58:45 AM »
Haven't listened to a new Helloween album since Keeper part 3, which I liked, since I never felt that connected to the style of power metal they make. Andi doesn't have a voice I am specially interested in hearing more from so this new album got me interested. Time has changed as well I guess since Kiske was once that one holy voice (together with Daniel Heiman from Lost Horizon) that just blew everything else out of the water. Keeper (the song) was also that one magic epic that I could spin over and over. Today it's not that special anymore. It's so over the top and the high vocals nearly become to much at some point. Haven't had any urge to listen to Helloween until I recently watched Kiske sing Keeper live (insane performance!) and remembered parts of why I once loved it. Should also mention that I got really into Gamma Ray again which was a band I always liked more than Helloween due to their many times awesome epics (Tribute To The Past, Heal Me, Armageddon etc. are amazing).

Anyyyyyway, that's the state going into this album. I was a bit hesitant if I would really get through an album with 14 songs. Thankfully Out of The Glory is a pretty great start for an album like this. Fun to hear Kiske again actually! However the first pretty straight forward tune that hits me is Best Time. Such a simple song but still got me hooked with that quite ridiculous Helloween vibe. But haha just hearing Kiske taking some high vocals for that final chorus is enough to give some goose bumps  ;D Been humming to the chorus over and over now.

Over the course of the remaining songs it's a bit hit and miss. A lot of the songs feels very straight forward template Helloween. I guess if you really like that template it's just glory all the way but for me it does get a bit same same. Would have liked something strange or unexpected. Kiske is nice to listen to but sometimes those constantly high pitched vocals becomes a bit too much. I definitely outgrown the need for that. Maybe like swearing in church but someone like LaBrie that can breathe a bit between the high vocals (and whose low register voice is quite different from the high pitch one) just feels more comfortable and gives a bit of needed dynamic range in my book.

Angels is a cool song btw. It has some parts where more emphasis goes to the keyboard layers which I like. Otherwise the songs can usually become the quite usual drum + guitar parts without any part of melody that stands out.

I would easily trim the songs on this album a bit. Skyfall is such a standout song and spinning the album becomes a bit difficult since it starts strong and then becomes a bit tedious from Rise Without Chains until Skyfall finally hits.

So regarding the main highlight then. I did listen to the Skyfall single edit when it came and liked it. It's really cool and has a lot of unique stuff that makes it different from the bunch. The "Little alien" part is maybe the main highlight of the whole album. SOOOO much Gamma Ray going on there  :metal Overall feels like a classic Helloween song that could been part of the Keeper albums.

For some strange reason the album doesn't end with Skyfall but there's two more songs. I still haven't been able to listen to those really. It feels overwhelming for me. I think there's a good reason most progressive bands,or even Helloween once, usually ends with the main epic as the finale. Behind The Surface with DT is one of the only good "cooldown" songs I know of.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 01:11:19 AM by Pettor »

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1508 on: June 24, 2021, 01:09:20 AM »
For some strange reason the album doesn't end with Skyfall but there's two more songs. I still haven't been able to listen to those really. It feels overwhelming for me. I think there's a good reason most progressive bands,or even Helloween once, usually ends with the main epic as the finale. Behind The Surface with DT is one of the only good "cooldown" songs I know of.

Skyfall is the album closer. The ones after are bonus tracks.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1509 on: June 24, 2021, 02:45:50 AM »
Iíll put some thoughts down now while I can at work while it's running through my head.  As I mentioned before, I appreciate the reunion and understand that it had to happen and happy that it did.  I discovered Helloween when I picked up the Dark Ride as a blind purchase as it was discounted.  Iíd heard earlier songs before like Eagle Fly Free, but I wasnít prepared for that happier sounding style of metal just yet.  The Dark Ride blew me away and it was around the time Rabbit Donít Come Easy was getting released.  That album is probably still my fav Helloween album.  I know thatís a polarizing opinion but itís nostalgia for me.  I started to appreciate the happier sounding stuff while maintaining the heaviness.  I loved Derisí voice too.  This allowed me to start to go back through and get into the Keeper albums and along with Jericho.  I followed Helloween from that album forward and itís been a pleasure.

Ever album has been a winner in my book.  MGGR was pretty underwhelming though but it has its moments.  I had no real expectations for this album and since I wasnít that excited with the reunion or the Alive show to be honest, I had no real anticipation for this one.  Listening to it a few times now, the production is hard for me to get past.  I think it quite frankly, sounds like shit.  Itís flat, lifeless and has no punch or power and IMO itís mixed pretty poorly.  Helloween since Rabbit have never had great production for some reason but I always seemed to look past it.  Iím finding it hard to look past here.  The mesh of vocals and guitars I think makes it sound messier and cluttered more than what it needs to be.  The songs are good.  But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.  Even though my anticipation was low, I thought with Kiske and Kai back, it would be a more collaborative writing effort with some more classic trademarks.  This album is a perfect continuation of MGGR in my eyes but it just feels Kiske is there because of the reunion.  Kaiís backing vocals at times are a nice touch but you wouldnít know heís there and it seems he had to write Skyfall IMO to warrant his involvement.

So, honestly, I love Kiske, but I think Iíd like this album better if it were just the five guys, but thatís more likely my issue but as I said, canít help they are there just because.  The makeup and writing of the album doesnít seem to mesh with the whole reunion aspect in my book.  Donít get me wrong, the songs are great and Iíll keep coming back to it, but yeah, the production hurts it a lot.  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

I disagree with almost all the points you made about the new album, wolfking!

But that's okay, we all have opinions. :tup

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1510 on: June 24, 2021, 04:59:18 AM »
Lol, fair enough bear, I fully expect that.

I somewhat agree with Pettor.  Skyfall is probably the highlight and the only to me that makes sense in relation to the reunion and the only song with an old school Kiske Helloween feel.

Although, Best Time may actually be my fav here.

Offline Melphina

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1511 on: June 24, 2021, 07:08:10 AM »
Iíll put some thoughts down now while I can at work while it's running through my head.  As I mentioned before, I appreciate the reunion and understand that it had to happen and happy that it did.  I discovered Helloween when I picked up the Dark Ride as a blind purchase as it was discounted.  Iíd heard earlier songs before like Eagle Fly Free, but I wasnít prepared for that happier sounding style of metal just yet.  The Dark Ride blew me away and it was around the time Rabbit Donít Come Easy was getting released.  That album is probably still my fav Helloween album.  I know thatís a polarizing opinion but itís nostalgia for me.  I started to appreciate the happier sounding stuff while maintaining the heaviness.  I loved Derisí voice too.  This allowed me to start to go back through and get into the Keeper albums and along with Jericho.  I followed Helloween from that album forward and itís been a pleasure.

Ever album has been a winner in my book.  MGGR was pretty underwhelming though but it has its moments.  I had no real expectations for this album and since I wasnít that excited with the reunion or the Alive show to be honest, I had no real anticipation for this one.  Listening to it a few times now, the production is hard for me to get past.  I think it quite frankly, sounds like shit.  Itís flat, lifeless and has no punch or power and IMO itís mixed pretty poorly.  Helloween since Rabbit have never had great production for some reason but I always seemed to look past it.  Iím finding it hard to look past here.  The mesh of vocals and guitars I think makes it sound messier and cluttered more than what it needs to be.  The songs are good.  But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.  Even though my anticipation was low, I thought with Kiske and Kai back, it would be a more collaborative writing effort with some more classic trademarks.  This album is a perfect continuation of MGGR in my eyes but it just feels Kiske is there because of the reunion.  Kaiís backing vocals at times are a nice touch but you wouldnít know heís there and it seems he had to write Skyfall IMO to warrant his involvement.

So, honestly, I love Kiske, but I think Iíd like this album better if it were just the five guys, but thatís more likely my issue but as I said, canít help they are there just because.  The makeup and writing of the album doesnít seem to mesh with the whole reunion aspect in my book.  Donít get me wrong, the songs are great and Iíll keep coming back to it, but yeah, the production hurts it a lot.  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

I disagree with almost all the points you made about the new album, wolfking!

But that's okay, we all have opinions. :tup

Yeah same, especially while giving praise to one of the absolute worst Helloween albums (MGGR) but saying this one sounds like shit confounds me. This album rules and the production rocks imo.

Offline Pettor

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1512 on: June 24, 2021, 07:16:12 AM »
For some strange reason the album doesn't end with Skyfall but there's two more songs. I still haven't been able to listen to those really. It feels overwhelming for me. I think there's a good reason most progressive bands,or even Helloween once, usually ends with the main epic as the finale. Behind The Surface with DT is one of the only good "cooldown" songs I know of.

Skyfall is the album closer. The ones after are bonus tracks.

Ahhh that makes sense. Spotify never wrote them as bonus tracks (which is usually the case). Somehow that will make it a bit easier to grasp them. They will still have the issue of coming after Skyfall and e.g. Pain of Salvation, Sonata Arctica etc. have sometimes placed the bonus tracks in the normal flow of songs to make them a bit easier to grasp. I think that would possibly have been a good idea here :)

Online devieira73

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1513 on: June 24, 2021, 07:16:33 AM »
I like the album's production. My only personal disappointment is that the drums sound lacks punch and heaviness, although it does sound pretty clear.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1514 on: June 24, 2021, 07:19:05 AM »
For some strange reason the album doesn't end with Skyfall but there's two more songs. I still haven't been able to listen to those really. It feels overwhelming for me. I think there's a good reason most progressive bands,or even Helloween once, usually ends with the main epic as the finale. Behind The Surface with DT is one of the only good "cooldown" songs I know of.

Skyfall is the album closer. The ones after are bonus tracks.

Ahhh that makes sense. Spotify never wrote them as bonus tracks (which is usually the case). Somehow that will make it a bit easier to grasp them. They will still have the issue of coming after Skyfall and e.g. Pain of Salvation, Sonata Arctica etc. have sometimes placed the bonus tracks in the normal flow of songs to make them a bit easier to grasp. I think that would possibly have been a good idea here :)

It should be mandated by law to incorporate bonus tracks in the proper tracklist. How annoying it is to have the obvious album closer and then a random song.

Of course in some cases it's difficult, take Viper King - where do you place such an oddball song in d/t's tracklist? but in Helloween's case the additional songs could be put into the proper tracklist.
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Online devieira73

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1515 on: June 24, 2021, 07:21:09 AM »
About the style of the songs, besides Skyfall, I agree with wolfking that they sound closer to Deris era, but I notice that they really adapted the melodies to Kiske's voice  - which already does a major difference - and I think, maybe because all the band seems to be involved in the song's arrangements (based on some interviews), there's a more progressive edge to them.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1516 on: June 24, 2021, 07:27:52 AM »
But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.
This is a good point. It is important to remember that, even though Kiske and Hansen perform on the album, it's not like they were actively involved in the writing process. This is why a lot of the stuff is reminiscent of the recent Helloween albums. Robot king, for example, reminds me of Claws quite a bit.

That being said, it sounds like Weikath, Deris and Gerstner really pulled it together this time around in terms of songwriting, because a lot of this album consists of what would have been the highlights on Straight out of hell and My God-given right - same style, but much better. There are no tracks like Wanna be God, If God loves rock and roll, Live now and Asshole to drag the album down.

Offline nick_z

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1517 on: June 24, 2021, 08:02:01 AM »
But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.
This is a good point. It is important to remember that, even though Kiske and Hansen perform on the album, it's not like they were actively involved in the writing process. This is why a lot of the stuff is reminiscent of the recent Helloween albums. Robot king, for example, reminds me of Claws quite a bit.

That being said, it sounds like Weikath, Deris and Gerstner really pulled it together this time around in terms of songwriting, because a lot of this album consists of what would have been the highlights on Straight out of hell and My God-given right - same style, but much better. There are no tracks like Wanna be God, If God loves rock and roll, Live now and Asshole to drag the album down.

Yes, that's exactly how I feel about the album too. The key (for me) is that they really stepped up the songwriting vs. the most recent 2-3 records. No real throwaway tracks - I mean, Helloween are clearly known for goofier songs/moments in their albums, but I 100% agree some of the tracks you mention above were just, uhm, bad?  ;D While there are "lighter-hearted" moments in this album  (e.g. Mass Pollution), there is nothing I feel like skipping. It's a pretty consistently good batch of songs, some of them great.

I actually appreciate they didn't pander too much to the "nostalgia" effect - to me, this is a continuation of what they have been doing for a while, just with better songs. Whether this was because of Kiske and Hansen being back to the fold, and the chemistry they brought to the table (regardless of actual songwriting contributions), I'm not sure. Maybe they just took their time to better craft the songs.


Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1518 on: June 24, 2021, 09:41:37 AM »
It's also not odd for Helloween to pull it together in terms of songwriting when it's necessary. When people dismissed the band after Chameleon, they knocked it out of the park with Master of the rings. When the fans were underwhelmed by The Legacy, they stepped up with Gambling with the devil. This is kind of similar.

Offline ariich

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1519 on: June 24, 2021, 10:39:58 AM »
Yeah I have to say, I'm enjoying this album more than anything they've done since The Dark Ride. I like the early Deris era a lot (it's when I got into the band) but everything since has been a bit inconsistent and often the melodies haven't really been grabbing me.

The new album isn't anything new or unexpected (and I wasn't looking for that anyway), but I'm finding it very enjoyable and well-written and there's a lot of good hooks. I also generally like the full production, although there are a few moments here and there that lack punch.

Offline gazinwales

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1520 on: June 24, 2021, 01:53:19 PM »
I haven't listened to a new Helloween album this much in many years, well at least 30 to be precise!
I couldn't care less who has written the songs, there is definitely chemistry, magic and a feeling that has been missing for me from Helloween's music for many years.
You can tell they spent a lot of time on the song writing, arrangements and vocals and it shows.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1521 on: June 24, 2021, 02:04:51 PM »
I haven't listened to this new album yet but as someone who used to listen to Helloween a lot in my late teenage years, I think this whole concept of getting these guys back involved is really cool, especially when the reception seems to be as good as it is. As someone who gets into band discographies and get a kick out of the whole 'legacy' of a band, it's quite cool to see a band release something this late in their career which could be viewed as a sort of an epic finale (even if there is more to come). I'm definitely curious to check this out based just on that alone, even if I haven't listened to a Helloween album front-to-back in 10 years or so.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1522 on: June 24, 2021, 04:09:24 PM »
This popped up in my youtube feed. I've never heard this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpkdJZNei8s
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1523 on: June 24, 2021, 06:17:11 PM »
This popped up in my youtube feed. I've never heard this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpkdJZNei8s

Released on a Noise compilation called Death Metal  :lol    I actually like that song/style better than plenty of their others from the very early days.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1524 on: June 24, 2021, 06:43:29 PM »
Iíll put some thoughts down now while I can at work while it's running through my head.  As I mentioned before, I appreciate the reunion and understand that it had to happen and happy that it did.  I discovered Helloween when I picked up the Dark Ride as a blind purchase as it was discounted.  Iíd heard earlier songs before like Eagle Fly Free, but I wasnít prepared for that happier sounding style of metal just yet.  The Dark Ride blew me away and it was around the time Rabbit Donít Come Easy was getting released.  That album is probably still my fav Helloween album.  I know thatís a polarizing opinion but itís nostalgia for me.  I started to appreciate the happier sounding stuff while maintaining the heaviness.  I loved Derisí voice too.  This allowed me to start to go back through and get into the Keeper albums and along with Jericho.  I followed Helloween from that album forward and itís been a pleasure.

Ever album has been a winner in my book.  MGGR was pretty underwhelming though but it has its moments.  I had no real expectations for this album and since I wasnít that excited with the reunion or the Alive show to be honest, I had no real anticipation for this one.  Listening to it a few times now, the production is hard for me to get past.  I think it quite frankly, sounds like shit.  Itís flat, lifeless and has no punch or power and IMO itís mixed pretty poorly.  Helloween since Rabbit have never had great production for some reason but I always seemed to look past it.  Iím finding it hard to look past here.  The mesh of vocals and guitars I think makes it sound messier and cluttered more than what it needs to be.  The songs are good.  But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.  Even though my anticipation was low, I thought with Kiske and Kai back, it would be a more collaborative writing effort with some more classic trademarks.  This album is a perfect continuation of MGGR in my eyes but it just feels Kiske is there because of the reunion.  Kaiís backing vocals at times are a nice touch but you wouldnít know heís there and it seems he had to write Skyfall IMO to warrant his involvement.

So, honestly, I love Kiske, but I think Iíd like this album better if it were just the five guys, but thatís more likely my issue but as I said, canít help they are there just because.  The makeup and writing of the album doesnít seem to mesh with the whole reunion aspect in my book.  Donít get me wrong, the songs are great and Iíll keep coming back to it, but yeah, the production hurts it a lot.  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

I disagree with almost all the points you made about the new album, wolfking!

But that's okay, we all have opinions. :tup

Yeah same, especially while giving praise to one of the absolute worst Helloween albums (MGGR) but saying this one sounds like shit confounds me. This album rules and the production rocks imo.

The term 'giving praise' is somewhat embellishing what I actually said.

But for the record, I would rank this new one above MGGR.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1525 on: June 24, 2021, 06:45:48 PM »
But this is basically a Deris era album featuring Michael Kiske with a kai Hansen written song.  I feel the album isnít anything different compared to what the band have been doing.
This is a good point. It is important to remember that, even though Kiske and Hansen perform on the album, it's not like they were actively involved in the writing process. This is why a lot of the stuff is reminiscent of the recent Helloween albums. Robot king, for example, reminds me of Claws quite a bit.

That being said, it sounds like Weikath, Deris and Gerstner really pulled it together this time around in terms of songwriting, because a lot of this album consists of what would have been the highlights on Straight out of hell and My God-given right - same style, but much better. There are no tracks like Wanna be God, If God loves rock and roll, Live now and Asshole to drag the album down.

That's my point.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1526 on: June 24, 2021, 06:48:53 PM »
This popped up in my youtube feed. I've never heard this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpkdJZNei8s

Yeah, I've heard that one.  Old school.  :metal

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1527 on: June 24, 2021, 07:06:07 PM »
  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

So this is an interesting thought. I don't know if it's that simple though. I've watched a bunch of interviews and Andi states that he wrote Fear Of The Fallen and Rise Without Chains specifically for two singers, and Sasha wrote Angels with Kiske specifically in mind. And Out Of The Glory was already a Deris Era track that they could never make work for an album.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline gazinwales

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1528 on: June 24, 2021, 09:44:07 PM »
The songs simply wouldn't be the same with them both. I am sure they added to them by way of melodies and different ideas.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1529 on: June 25, 2021, 12:28:57 AM »
  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

So this is an interesting thought. I don't know if it's that simple though. I've watched a bunch of interviews and Andi states that he wrote Fear Of The Fallen and Rise Without Chains specifically for two singers, and Sasha wrote Angels with Kiske specifically in mind. And Out Of The Glory was already a Deris Era track that they could never make work for an album.
I find it refreshing to hear Kiske's vocals on a Gerstner song, as well as two vocalists on a Deris song. It gives new flavors to a familiar sound. I also have a hard time imagining Deris singing Out of the glory. The sheer brightness and positivity of the melodies and chord progressions immediately demand Kiske on vocals.

In my opinion, had this album been released without Skyfall and only with Deris on vocals, I think it would be as well received as Gambling with the devil and 7 Sinners were. Which would be awesome at this point in their careers.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1530 on: June 25, 2021, 01:02:31 AM »
  Iím pleased itís being so well received but would love to know the reactions with the exact same songs (obviously without Skyfall) without Kiske or Kai.  I truly reckon it would be chalked up as Ďanother solid Deris led outing flying the Helloween banner,í or something like that.

So this is an interesting thought. I don't know if it's that simple though. I've watched a bunch of interviews and Andi states that he wrote Fear Of The Fallen and Rise Without Chains specifically for two singers, and Sasha wrote Angels with Kiske specifically in mind. And Out Of The Glory was already a Deris Era track that they could never make work for an album.

You're right, it's probably not that simple mate, and maybe the songs I'm still discovering and getting to know that's the issue.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1531 on: June 25, 2021, 01:05:07 AM »
It seems as though I'm a bit of a lone wolf with my thinking of this album, which is probably a good thing for the band and the fans so who am I?  It's funny, I had no real expectations for it yet I'm picking it to shit and not sure why.  I'll give the songs more time to evolve. 

I guess I just realised I'm a Helloween Deris era fanboy and I should be thankful that Andi is still around because he is probably the hero out of all this, especially with the amount of songwriting on here from him.  If Andi were kicked out for Kiske, I would be devastated, Sascha too.  Gotta look at the positives.

Offline gazinwales

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1532 on: June 25, 2021, 02:56:55 AM »
Noticed Weiki is holding a Jackson guitar in the CD booklet, did he stop playing Gibson's?

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1533 on: June 25, 2021, 05:05:41 AM »
It seems as though I'm a bit of a lone wolf with my thinking of this album, which is probably a good thing for the band and the fans so who am I?  It's funny, I had no real expectations for it yet I'm picking it to shit and not sure why.  I'll give the songs more time to evolve. 

I guess I just realised I'm a Helloween Deris era fanboy and I should be thankful that Andi is still around because he is probably the hero out of all this, especially with the amount of songwriting on here from him.  If Andi were kicked out for Kiske, I would be devastated, Sascha too.  Gotta look at the positives.

I have probably listened to Deris era Helloween more than Kiske era. I would also be very unhappy if Deris and Gerstner would have been kicked out. Although Andi owns 1/3 of the Helloween name and brand, so it would have been pretty much impossible for the rest to continue without him.

Anyway, I see only positives with this change! This to me, is now the definitive Helloween lineup! Something truly incredible can come up from this. I think their best work is yet to come!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 05:44:27 AM by Polarbear »

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1534 on: June 25, 2021, 05:08:19 AM »
It seems as though I'm a bit of a lone wolf with my thinking of this album, which is probably a good thing for the band and the fans so who am I?  It's funny, I had no real expectations for it yet I'm picking it to shit and not sure why.  I'll give the songs more time to evolve. 

I guess I just realised I'm a Helloween Deris era fanboy and I should be thankful that Andi is still around because he is probably the hero out of all this, especially with the amount of songwriting on here from him.  If Andi were kicked out for Kiske, I would be devastated, Sascha too.  Gotta look at the positives.

I have probably listened to Deris era Helloween more than Kiske era. I would also be very unhappy if Deris and Gerstner would have been kicked out. Although Andi owns 1/3 of the Halloween name and brand, so it would have been pretty much impossible for the rest to continue without him.

Anyway, I see only positives with this change! This to me, is now the definitive Helloween lineup! Something truly incredible can come up from this. I think their best work is yet to come!

This is a good point.  Things may come together even more on the next album.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1535 on: June 25, 2021, 05:09:08 AM »
Noticed Weiki is holding a Jackson guitar in the CD booklet, did he stop playing Gibson's?

I noticed that right away too.  I'm not sure but it looked funny at first glance!

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1536 on: June 25, 2021, 05:13:19 AM »
Is this an official alt. mix?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvNwBdOUP4s&ab_channel=AntonisSkar

I can't tell if the sound is unclear or not but that's Kai singing the first part on the verse right? On the album it's Kiske the whole verse or am I beeing deceived?
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1537 on: June 25, 2021, 06:02:30 AM »
Thatís the alternative vocals mix that was released with the Skyfall Edit single.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1538 on: June 25, 2021, 10:45:33 AM »
Coming around on this album, definitely their best in a while. It's not classic Helloween, obviously, but I like more than half of the songs here which is good. I respect Deris, but Kiske really makes this album shine for me. It's not even the high notes, it's just his voice works really well as a counterpoint to Andi's rougher voice.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 10:57:05 AM by Evermind »
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Melphina

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1539 on: June 25, 2021, 10:48:43 AM »
Coming around on this album, definitely their best in a while. It's not classic Helloween, obviously, but I like more than half of the songs here which is good. I respect Deris, but Kiske really makes this album shine for me. It's not even the high notes, it's just his voice works really well as a counterpoint to Andy's rougher voice.

It's like peanut butter and jelly. The two work so well together.