Author Topic: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United  (Read 120946 times)

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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1470 on: June 19, 2021, 04:25:15 PM »
On my first listen now. The version I bought, the limited edition earbook with black vinyl and 2 CDs doesn't come out until 6/25, so I went and bought the mp3 version on Amazon...
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1471 on: June 20, 2021, 03:34:39 AM »
Yeah, I don't like the production at all.  Just seems to lack oomph.  Sounds very flat to my ears and I don't know, it sounds muddy and I think the mix actually makes it difficult to hear everything for me personally.  The drums sound like shit too.  Must be me.

I may need to come back to this.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1472 on: June 20, 2021, 03:42:03 AM »
I am on my second listen though and Best Time is brilliant, fucking brilliant.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1473 on: June 20, 2021, 04:03:21 AM »
Yeah, I don't like the production at all.  Just seems to lack oomph.  Sounds very flat to my ears and I don't know, it sounds muddy and I think the mix actually makes it difficult to hear everything for me personally.  The drums sound like shit too.  Must be me.

I may need to come back to this.

I get what you're saying. I think to accommodate there being 3 vocalists & 3 guitarists, they opted to go for a more wall-of-sound approach where it's not designed for everything to be audible at the same time. I'm pretty neutral on it personally (despite me often disliking it in other albums), but it certainly lacks the punch of the previous few Helloween albums.

The songs themselves more than make up for it though, imo. :metal

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1474 on: June 20, 2021, 04:05:38 AM »
Yeah, I don't like the production at all.  Just seems to lack oomph.  Sounds very flat to my ears and I don't know, it sounds muddy and I think the mix actually makes it difficult to hear everything for me personally.  The drums sound like shit too.  Must be me.

I may need to come back to this.

I get what you're saying. I think to accommodate there being 3 vocalists & 3 guitarists, they opted to go for a more wall-of-sound approach where it's not designed for everything to be audible at the same time. I'm pretty neutral on it personally (despite me often disliking it in other albums), but it certainly lacks the punch of the previous few Helloween albums.

The songs themselves more than make up for it though, imo. :metal

Thanks IDNDT.  I thought it must have been me.  Yeah, I think you're right, the three guitar thing seems to get a bit lost as does the vocal layers maybe.  I don't think there's much depth in the sound.

Still listening, Mass Pollution is a fav, as is Robot King.  There is some pure Avantasia feel in this one for me,  Indestructible is nice too.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1475 on: June 20, 2021, 04:37:13 AM »
So, Golden Times is better than most song on the album.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1476 on: June 20, 2021, 04:41:58 AM »
So, if I look past the production, this is a pretty strong album.  It's basically a late Deris era album with Kiske thrown in and a Gamma Ray epic on the end.  Kai pretty much turns up for a few vocals and some solid soloing but when you listen to the songwriting on the album, it's clear he had no involvement besides Skyfall.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1477 on: June 20, 2021, 07:46:32 AM »
I am on my second listen though and Best Time is brilliant, fucking brilliant.

So, Golden Times is better than most song on the album.

Thought you might like Best Time. Both of these songs happen to be Sasha tunes, as is Angels.
I think Angels is amazing.




Still listening, Mass Pollution is a fav, as is Robot King.  There is some pure Avantasia feel in this one for me,  Indestructible is nice too.

I've been listening to some of the interviews for this album, and Andi stated that he wrote both Fear Of The Fallen and Rise Without Chains with having two singers in mind, so that makes sense.



I watched a Kiske interview last night and he said Out For The Glory is actually a song that (Deris-era) Helloween already hadn't but just couldn't get it right enough to put on an album.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline nick_z

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1478 on: June 20, 2021, 01:27:04 PM »
Keep going back to this and plenty enjoying what I'm hearing!

Best Time is SO good. I didn't know the Unisonic song - there are definite similarities in the overall mood and, well, a few notes in the chorus  ;) But I do enjoy the Helloween song better. And, again, Angels is excellent as the more "experimental" song (at least in the context of this record's sound).

But, truly, I think it's a very, very good album overall.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1479 on: June 20, 2021, 03:24:58 PM »
I can't believe how good Michael Kiske sounds.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1480 on: June 20, 2021, 03:27:01 PM »
I can't believe how good Michael Kiske sounds.

There was one song towards the back end where he hits some insanely high notes.  Highest notes I've ever heard from him I think.

Offline gazinwales

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1481 on: June 21, 2021, 01:15:19 AM »
I can't believe how good Michael Kiske sounds.

He does sound amazing, some of those high notes are just insane.
Deris sounds great too and despite that he is a heavy smoker.
Everyone sounds great such a killer album I can't stop playing it.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1482 on: June 21, 2021, 02:36:18 AM »
The only issue I am having is that Kiske's pronounciation is a bit odd in my opinion. I have a hard time figuring out the words from time to time, especially in the opener. Other than that, his voice sounds full, and the high notes truly are insane. It's so great to have the man back.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1483 on: June 21, 2021, 04:48:13 AM »
I can't believe how good Michael Kiske sounds.

He does sound amazing, some of those high notes are just insane.
Deris sounds great too and despite that he is a heavy smoker.
Everyone sounds great such a killer album I can't stop playing it.

Deris sounds great I think it's Robot King.  Some of his vocals there remind me of the heavier stuff like Push.  That's the shit I like.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1484 on: June 21, 2021, 05:49:45 AM »
I love Robot King!!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1485 on: June 21, 2021, 05:56:48 AM »
I can't believe how good Michael Kiske sounds.

He does sound amazing, some of those high notes are just insane.
Deris sounds great too and despite that he is a heavy smoker.
Everyone sounds great such a killer album I can't stop playing it.

I like the fact that it's not just Kiske singing. I can't take a whole album of him. Great vocalist that he is, that vibrato really grates on me - always has. Sorry Tim  We're not talking Robert Plant levels of dislike here though :biggrin:
Deris sounds great I think it's Robot King.  Some of his vocals there remind me of the heavier stuff like Push.  That's the shit I like.

Offline devieira73

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1486 on: June 21, 2021, 06:53:35 AM »
Interesting this. I also feel, although I love Kiske's voice, an entire album of him singing is a bit too much, even in the classic Helloween albums. His voice lacks puch when sometimes is needed. I think they achieved a perfect balance on vocals in this new album. And Deris has a lot of GREAT moments in the album. I have goosebumps at the end of Robot King when Andi kind goes out of nowhere and does that sreaming backing vocal "Kiiii....IIIIIIING!" :o :hefdaddy
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1487 on: June 21, 2021, 07:21:31 AM »
Interesting comments on Angels. I don't think there's much, if any, experimenting going on in that song; there's nothing on it that makes me raise an eyebrow or go 'wow that's different/new' like, say, half of Rabbit Don't Come Easy. In fact after a dozen or more spins it's the only song I find myself skipping. It's mostly because of the weak chorus melody and how it completely loses energy going into the chorus by dropping the speed entirely. Compare and contrast with songs like Out For The Glory, or Robot King, or Down In The Dumps. Andi is firing on all cylinders every time he's heard on this record, it continues to baffle me how he manages to sound like such a wailing demon this far into his career. The amount of high notes he's knocking out makes me wonder what the recording process for him was like. Robot King gets better every time I hear it. That's a contender for the all-time greatest Helloween songs list as far as I'm concerned.

The production on this doesn't bother me. It's crisp and clear and has a lot of punch. Granted it's not the best sounding metal record ever, but for Helloween, it's sure as shit better than the vast majority of their other albums. It reminds me of Gambling With The Devil. Lots of treble and lots of effects but without sacrificing any punch in the low end.

Offline Evermind

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1488 on: June 21, 2021, 11:57:13 AM »
Indestructible and Fear of the Fallen are my favourites from the first two listens. Not feeling Mass Pollution and Cyanide at all so far. Also I kinda dislike the spoken words in Best Time's chorus. Not feeling Out for the Glory either.

It's definitely way better than My God-Given Right, and it's also Monday so I might be a bit harsh on the album. I'll keep spinning it.
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1489 on: June 21, 2021, 12:41:37 PM »
I love love love "Best Time"! :hefdaddy

I will bet anything that it's going to be a live staple going forward. When they are able to play live again anyway.. :P

There is not a song that I outright dislike on this album. I have even warmed up to "Angels"..

Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1490 on: June 21, 2021, 12:44:23 PM »
The only track that isn't grabbing me at all is Down in the dumps. Another one I was slightly underwhelmed with was Indestructable, but that one is growing on me. Robot king is also getting better with each listen, even though it really confused me at first.

As for the favorites, the obvious choices are Fear of the fallen, Out for the glory and Skyfall. However, Angels and Rise without chains are pretty much up there as well.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1491 on: June 21, 2021, 01:01:12 PM »
although I love Kiske's voice, an entire album of him singing is a bit too much,


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline Melphina

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1492 on: June 21, 2021, 01:13:16 PM »
although I love Kiske's voice, an entire album of him singing is a bit too much,




Offline gazinwales

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1493 on: June 21, 2021, 01:14:29 PM »
although I love Kiske's voice, an entire album of him singing is a bit too much,

UGH NO! It's an absolute pleasure to hear him singing this way in this band on this album.



Offline ErHaO

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1494 on: June 21, 2021, 01:20:56 PM »
I can listen to an album with any of these vocalists (even Kai with his weird vocals always manages to write something that suits him). But the magic here for me is the combination. And I prefer Andi here (especially live, judging by United Alive and some stream material). Kiske has a great and unique sound overall, but sometimes I can't make out a single word.

I like the album. Helloween is one of those bands where I am not really a fan of any album, but throughout their years they have made some killer songs.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1495 on: June 21, 2021, 02:13:26 PM »
I can listen to an album with any of these vocalists (even Kai with his weird vocals always manages to write something that suits him). But the magic here for me is the combination.

I agree. It really works. Think of how rare a reunion like this is in music. Has anything like this ever happened?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1496 on: June 21, 2021, 08:12:06 PM »
Watching some interviews with Sasha tonight... In Best Time, it seems the "Yesterday is history" line in the chorus is Sasha. I guess I assumed it was Kai. Apparently the idea was that it would be Kai and Sasha, but they left Sasha's demo vocal in. Charlie's idea.



Also, Dani recorded this album on Ingo's drums.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1497 on: June 21, 2021, 11:24:56 PM »
Watching some interviews with Sasha tonight... In Best Time, it seems the "Yesterday is history" line in the chorus is Sasha. I guess I assumed it was Kai. Apparently the idea was that it would be Kai and Sasha, but they left Sasha's demo vocal in. Charlie's idea.



Also, Dani recorded this album on Ingo's drums.

Yeah, that makes sense.  Thought it must have been Kai but it didn't quite sound like him.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1498 on: June 21, 2021, 11:49:18 PM »
I was absolutely confident that was Kai. I still am. Sasha got confused, that has to be Kai!  :lol

And yeah, that is such a cringe line, but you kind of expect it from Helloween.  ;D

Offline gazinwales

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1499 on: June 22, 2021, 01:07:39 AM »
Yeah 100% sounds like Kai, has to be him right?

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1500 on: June 22, 2021, 01:13:14 AM »
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1501 on: June 22, 2021, 02:27:38 AM »
Yeah 100% sounds like Kai, has to be him right?
I mean, it's obviously not if Sasha claims that it is his voice on that line. But damn, does it sound like Kai.  :lol

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1502 on: June 22, 2021, 09:07:29 AM »
Some initial thoughts on the new album. I like it. I didn't take to it immediately, however. I'm now on my fourth listen to the album, and its really started to grab me. It could be that I'm not really a huge fan of Andi Deris' voice. I'm totally pro-Michael Kiske. I don't hate Deris by any stretch at all. I just feel Kiske has a superior voice. Deris deserves every bit of credit - without him, there likely would not have been a Helloween. But for me, Helloween was what Helloween was because of how Kiske's voice melded with the songs back in the day.

Anyway, that bit of context said, I really felt they played to each singer's strengths on this one. I'm so glad they were able to make this work, at least for one huge tour and now a new record. Deris and Kiske really mesh well, and Kai's vocals work too, for color and mood changing.

I don't want to go song by song, but after a slow start (I loved Skyfall when it came out, but once I got the record, it took a bit), I'm really starting to dig it now. I have my earbook being delivered this week. But I couldn't wait so I purchased the mp3s on Friday. :)
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Offline Lowdz

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Offline wolfking

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Re: Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United
« Reply #1504 on: June 23, 2021, 07:35:28 PM »
I'm still torn on this album.  I'm struggling with it a little to be honest.  I'll post more later.