Author Topic: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?  (Read 10257 times)

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Offline tri.ad

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2010, 12:29:47 AM »
It hasn't aged badly for me. ANTR is still mostly enjoyable for me (well, the first half, anyway), I don't care more or less for AROP, Wither still is my second favourite on the album, TSF is a very enjoyable listen. I'm somewhat indifferent about TBOT, and TCOT is still one of my top 10 DT songs.
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Offline TheGlassPrison

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2010, 02:04:36 AM »
Aged Well: ANTR, AROP, Wither
Neutral: TBOT
Aged Poorly: TSF, TCOT

just to comment on the non-positives:

TBOT - still like it, not a classic but it's a good DT song.
TSF - thought this was so awesome at first, now it's just okay for me. still listen to it once in a blue moon though.
TCOT - went from OMG LEGENDARY to just really awesome, not exactly a steep decline or anything.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2010, 02:14:08 AM »
A Nightmare To Remember, A Rite of Passage, and Wither have all stayed about the same for me.  I still like 'em.

The Best of Times and The Shattered Fortress continue to kinda just form this "gap" in the album for me of stuff I don't listen to. That hasn't changed.

Tuscany's aged pretty well. When I first heard it, I was like, eh, it's good, but it's not in the same league as their other epics. I feel differently about it now. It's definitely a favorite.

Finally, the production of the album gives it some charm. This album is mixed to sound very "clunky" almost. Myung uses a distorted bass throughout and Petrucci and Portnoy lock-in with each other and just kind of "chug" along like a freight train while most of the time while Rudess seems to just get buried in the mix. I dislike that the keys are so low, but, overall, this kinda production seems unique at least compared to other DT albums. It's pretty cool. John P definitely dominates the mix.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2010, 04:50:13 AM »
Reap, your post is flawless man. Echoes my thoughts completely.
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Offline pmahoney1337

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2010, 10:20:29 PM »
I was stoked by the album when I first got it, but now I see the flaws.



haha jk, seriously though,

A Nightmare to Remember - Aged very well (I love the sedation part as well)
A Rite of Passage - Didn't age so well (Don't listen to it as much as I used to)
Wither - Aged alright (Still love it though. guitar solo is awesome)
The Shattered Fortress - Aged alright (I could never really get into this song, I'm sure I will somewhere down the road)
The Best of Times - Aged well (Some parts I feel are a little boring, but most of it is good)
The Count of Tuscany- Aged extremely well (I could listen to this song forever, I absolutely love it. One of my favorite DT songs.

Offline kala1928

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2010, 05:49:34 AM »
Sort of hijack BUT

I guess this fits in to this thread since I'm listening to it right now (the silent part of count of tuscany going now) I'd like to point out that
COUNT OF TUSCANY IS F****** EPIC
the ending is soo awesome, really awesome ending theme / overture -feel in it and although its actually damn long it doesnt feel like it.

Offline kala1928

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2010, 05:53:08 AM »
Sort of hijack BUT

I guess this fits in to this thread since I'm listening to it right now (the silent part of count of tuscany going now) I'd like to point out that
COUNT OF TUSCANY IS F****** EPIC
the ending is soo awesome, really awesome ending theme / overture -feel in it and although its actually damn long it doesnt feel like it.

And the workplace radio just started to play A7x - nightmare and someone went to crank up the volume so much I had to put my other earphone on too :D

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Offline fsh3702

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2010, 07:13:02 AM »
oh, maybe there are really some differences about cultural understanding between east and west, i like the best of times the first time i heard it, and this affection didn't fade as the fleeting wind of time.

i also like the shattered fortress very much, especially JP's solo.

a rite of passage: the intro really impressed me, but the rest parts are really generic.

and i feel the count of tuscany a little repetitive now, also the lyrics are too narrative.
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Offline Infinite Cactus

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2010, 07:23:18 AM »
They have aged very well. The album is sitting rather comfortably at number 5 right now. Been digging A Nightmare to Remember and A Rite of Passage a lot lately.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2010, 07:40:41 AM »
oh, maybe there are really some differences about cultural understanding between east and west, i like the best of times the first time i heard it, and this affection didn't fade as the fleeting wind of time.

I don't think it's a cultural difference. The thing is, as a Chinese guy, you haven't been around English really enough to know what's "cliche" and what isn't. Lyrically, "The Best of Times" is full of poetic expressions and metaphors that have been used TOO frequently by writers. Lines like "The fleetings winds of time" are so typical now that, even though I'm sure the song meant A LOT to Mike, it's just not that poetic.  Even the title of the song, "The Best of Times," is taken from an expression that's had all artistic value beaten out of it over the past 200 years.

The only thing I can think of to describe it better is how the "moon" can represent missing a far-away lover in Chinese poetry. If some laowai read a modern Chinese poem about how the moon represents the writer's feelings for their far-away beloved, chances are they'd think it was really good, not having read the hundreds and hundreds of older poems which use the same images to touch on the same topic.

I will still say, though, that the lyrics are not bad UNTIL "And then came the call... Our lives changed forever"
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 07:49:33 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline orcus116

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2010, 08:18:25 AM »
That's a really good assessment summing up all the problems I had with those lyrics.

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2010, 09:00:35 AM »
Simply put, not well.

I have a much better appreciation, and I enjoy "The Count of Tuscany" a LOT more, and dig it big time. I've always liked "A Rite of Passage." After that, meh. Didn't like the rest when it came out (for the most part), don't really like it now. DT paint by numbers.

SOOOOOO much looking forward to seeing where they go now that MP is not involved.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2010, 09:11:55 AM »
I still like it a lot and have much more appreciation for TBOT, which I didn't care for in the beginning.  Looking forward to the next album.
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Offline Seventh Son

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2010, 10:07:47 AM »
A Nightmare to Remember - Not as terrible as some people make it out to be. I would like it more without Jordan's solo of course, but overall its a good song. I listen to my fair share of Death/Black Metal, so Portnoy's growling doesn't really bother me, although it is INCREDIBLY out of place in the song and if they really wanted to do something like that, they could have tried to make it fit instead of randomly placing it there.

A Rite of Passage - Rather badly. Bottom 20 or 15 DT song, the riffs are completely stale and lifeless and Petrucci's solo does nothing for me. Pass.

Wither - I like this quite a bit, much more so than AROP. Has aged pretty well for me, but I tend to enjoy Dream Theater's ballads a lot.

The Shattered Fortress - Pretty good song, but I'd like it more if the song wasn't a copy/paste of the other AA Suite tracks. Still top 50 material for me.

The Best of Times - Lyrics are extremely awkward and cliche (like others said before), but the music itself is pretty top-notch and Petrucci brings out DAT SOLO. Tied for best song on the album.

The Count of Tuscany - Two words describe this song for me. Wasted Opportunity. This song had the potential to be absolutely amazing but the middle section drags it down a lot (Like, potential top 10 to like top 30 or so for me). Still, the synth section is a top 10 DT moment (Or close to it) and the ending is great. Still, the middle section just feels so lifeless and boring to me. Still a pretty good song overall, but this song had a lot of potential that it didn't live up to. So it aged averagely for me.

Overall: Middle of the road DT album. Definite improvement over SC (Although doing that isn't that hard of a task :p) but I can't help but feel this album is a "Dream Theater by the numbers" type of release.
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Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2010, 07:58:05 AM »
I would say it's in the top of the mid tier CDs. Very good over all. And some of JPs best solo work ever.

Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2010, 09:23:01 AM »
To me the songs have aged pretty badly for me.  I don't know what it is about this album, but I guess I find it to be their most uninspired work.  It is definitely my last favorite album by them.  At first I thought it was OK, but it's just gotten worse as time goes on.

I still enjoy ANTR sometimes, except for the ending.  And TCOT and Shattered Fortress are pretty good tunes which I enjoy, but the album as a whole... I just don't like it.

I feel like the feel and flow of this album just isn't solid. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2010, 09:48:32 AM »
Overall, the album has aged fairly well for me.  I recently took a little break from it because I played it to death after it came out (along with Snowfall On Judgement Day and The Whirlwind).  But I'd say, overall, it ranks about where it initially did, which is:  really, really good album.  DT did an overall outstanding job with the album, and the entire packaging with special editions, etc.  The only minor flaws as an album is in terms of overall song lengths.  Quite a few of the songs could have been cut down just a bit, and maybe add a shorter song on the album.  With only six songs, if I don't like one, and am not in the mood for another one or two on a particular day, the album just feels too short, despite clocking in at nearly 80 minutes.  Anyhow, since this is a "song-by-song" thread:

ANTR:  I thought this song was terrific when it came out, and my opinion has not changed one bit.  The transitions between heavy and lighter sections work really well, and there is a lot of atmosphere that really lets the song breathe.  I love the section with Mike's vocals.  The only weakness in that section is the "roar" at the end.  Sorry, but it just doesn't sound convincing and, more importantly, doesn't feel like it fits.  The instrumental portions also feel a bit long, and some trimming would make the entire song flow a bit better, IMO.

AROP:  Nothing spectacular, but it is a solid, fun song.  I liked it well enough when I first heard it, but felt that it easily wasn't their strongest.  I still feel about the same.  And I think the radio edit flows better than the full song.  When I heard the full song initially, I didn't really feel it was too long.  But after hearing the edit, I definitely felt like there is fat in the full version that can be trimmed.

Wither:  This song has probably aged the worst of any on the album, but that isn't a bad thing.  I still think it is a good song, and definitely worthy of being on the album, but I don't like it as much as I initially did.

TSF:  This one has aged really well.  I liked it a lot when I first heard it.  I think I like it even more now.  Again, it would probably be even better if cut down a bit.  And the "take all of me" reprise still feels forced and unnecessary.  If I had the stem tracks, I would streamline the song a bit by eliminating that part.  I would go from the slow Repentence section immediately before it right into the instrumental section that uses the main TROAE riff immediately after the "take all of me" reprise, and then I would cut the instrumental section down a bit.  Still, great song that I like even more now than I initially did.

TBOT:  Still about the same as when the album came out:  There are some really cool moments, and when I take the time to really dwell on the lyrics, they are indeed emotional.  But generally, I basically just don't connect with this song emotionally, and that drags it down for me.  Despite some really cool moments, and despite my appreciation for what Mike was going through when he wrote it, I generally don't care for this track.

TCOT:  I guess you could say it hasn't aged well, since I don't like it as much as I previously did.  I still think it is a very good song.  But the volume swell section in the middle kills the momentum for me and makes me lose interest.  There just isn't enough that is interesting going on in that part of the song to keep me.  And that's a shame because the rest of the song is absolutely brilliant.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2010, 09:52:40 AM »
Hey bosk, not to discount the rest of your post or anything BUT:

Overall, the album has aged fairly well for me.  I recently took a little break from it because I played it to death after it came out (along with Snowfall On Judgement Day and The Whirlwind). 

These albums came out relatively close together. Summer-Fall 2009.... Probably one of the best times for music EVER?????? Because of these albums?????

Offline bosk1

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2010, 10:57:15 AM »
I don't understand your point.  What is the problem with my love of those 3 albums?  I just don't understand...  ???
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2010, 10:59:25 AM »
What? No. I was APPROVING of your love for those albums, and asking you if you also think it was one of the best "seasons" for music ever. lol. Sorry if it didn't come out that way...  :lol

It's because I just wrote... "?x3" which comes out, on the forum, like  ??? which, unfortunately, has a negative connotation. But I didn't mean it negatively at all!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 11:04:40 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline bosk1

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2010, 11:30:22 AM »
Oh, I follow you now.  Yeah, totally.  2009 was one of the best years for music that I can remember, and those three albums were the pinnacle.
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Offline Tick

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2010, 12:00:13 PM »
First and last songs on the record are legendary. The others are just pretty good.
Nuff said.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2010, 12:08:12 PM »
The last song sure is legendary but not for musical reasons.

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2010, 01:52:47 PM »
The last song sure is legendary but not for musical reasons.
Now wait a minute, man.

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2010, 02:21:14 PM »
The last song sure is legendary but not for musical reasons.
Now wait a minute, man.
Oh hell, not that again.
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Offline jsem

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2010, 02:59:51 PM »
Wither has turned into a gr8 power ballad for me, with the solo as a climax.
ANTR has always been good imo, but gets better every time.
Count of tuscany remains decent.
AROP has a catchy riff, but that's about it. Aged poorly
The Best of Times... I used to like it a bit more, not anymore.
Shattered fortress? Meh.

Offline ytserush

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2010, 06:15:59 PM »
Not much has changed.

I don't really care much for the first and last songs (Although I have to say "The Count of Tuscany" has improved for me in that I like the intro and the instrumental break and everything after).




I liked "A Rite of Passage," "Wither," "The Shattered Fortress," "The Best of Times"  a lot from the get-go and still do.


Offline fsh3702

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2010, 08:03:32 PM »
oh, maybe there are really some differences about cultural understanding between east and west, i like the best of times the first time i heard it, and this affection didn't fade as the fleeting wind of time.

I don't think it's a cultural difference. The thing is, as a Chinese guy, you haven't been around English really enough to know what's "cliche" and what isn't. Lyrically, "The Best of Times" is full of poetic expressions and metaphors that have been used TOO frequently by writers. Lines like "The fleetings winds of time" are so typical now that, even though I'm sure the song meant A LOT to Mike, it's just not that poetic.  Even the title of the song, "The Best of Times," is taken from an expression that's had all artistic value beaten out of it over the past 200 years.

The only thing I can think of to describe it better is how the "moon" can represent missing a far-away lover in Chinese poetry. If some laowai read a modern Chinese poem about how the moon represents the writer's feelings for their far-away beloved, chances are they'd think it was really good, not having read the hundreds and hundreds of older poems which use the same images to touch on the same topic.

I will still say, though, that the lyrics are not bad UNTIL "And then came the call... Our lives changed forever"

your remarks are really meaningful to me, the fact is that i really don't get what is the cliche in english. and you are absolutely right about the moon conception. "moon" is a super cliche in chinese literature and lyrics, almost abused too much.  :D

i think the contrast before and after "And then came the call... Our lives changed forever" is awefully touching, a sudden transition from joyfulness to sadness is completely refreshing and unexpected.

mostly importantly this song make me cherish more the relationship between me and my dad, a silent man whose care and love for me are not always expressive and imperceptible.
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Offline PetFish

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2010, 01:23:15 AM »
Overall I don't place it above or below anything else as I like to view each album on par with every other one.  Each one is special in it's own unique way and represents a specific period in their music.

SONG - RELEASE GRADE / CURRENT GRADE

ANTR - C / C
   I could never figure out why people like this one so much.  The lyrics are too literal and don't leave anything open to interpretation.  Other than the "beautiful agony" sections it doesn't really do anything for me and just cuz MP can has blast beats doesn't mean they can has be in a song where they don't fit.

AROP - A / B
   I think I liked this song most when it first came out cuz the video was so cool.  I still love the chorus "turn the key..."

Wither - A / A
   Loved it from the first listen.  Great melody and flow and a tasty guitar solo.  I was somewhat disappointed with the video but the song rises above it.

TSF - B / B
   A great finish to a phenomenal piece of music.  I especially love the slowed-down TGP riff.  You expect it to just go and then there's a major tempo change.  If MP does come back or at least do a show down the road then there's hope to hear the entire suite live but who knows how long that will take.

TBOT - B / B
   I love it when DT write major songs and hope they do more of them in the future. I don't care for the lyrics but I do respect what they are about and the emotion behind them.  JP's outro guitar solo is in my top 3 of all time and it would be a damn shame if we didn't get to hear it live at some point.

TCOT - B / A
   I liked it at first but now I really like it.  Nothing in the music feels out of place.  The lyrics feel like some old English over-the-top opera and the music itself takes me back to a time when all they had was live theatre and crazy costumes.  The chorus is huge for audience participation... something that really lacks in DT's music.

Offline PixelDream

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2010, 11:01:27 AM »
I rarely listen to anything from it anymore. But it's a very good album in it's style. Kinda more into 'old school' DT now, from I&W up until Live Scenes (after staring myself blind on Score and Budokan, I realized this is still the dvd with the most awesome songs on it).

The problem is, I can't stand these full on mastered metal productions anymore. Same with the new Alter Bridge record, my ears just get tired because it is all so bombastic.

I really liked BC&SL when it came out, but I hated Wither. Now I think Wither is the best song on the album, and the other songs? I just check out the awesome guitar solos now and then, that's it. I'm sure I'll appreciate the album more in future times. I'll return to it, unlike SC.
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2010, 11:47:38 AM »
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Offline Zantera

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2010, 02:43:05 PM »
Back when it was released, i really liked the album and the songs on it.
Now however, i'd say it looks something like this:

A Nightmare to Remember - Back then it was my favorite on the album, and now... it's at least one of my favorites.
It's a good song, some parts are great, some are "ok" but nothing more - overall a song that qualifies as one of the 'better' modern DT-songs.

A Rite of Passage - Back then i liked it, now i'd say it's OK. Nothing majorly wrong with it, but nothing with it that i find amazing either.
I don't really like the instrumental section, because i don't think it fits the song.

Wither - I've never really cared for this song, and it's about the same now.
DT goes pop-style, and i couldn't really be less excited about it in this case.

The Shattered Fortress - Back then i really liked it, but i'm not really sure about it now.
It's good, but compared to other AA-suite songs, i wouldn't rank it amongst the better ones. (This Dying Soul and The Glass Prison being my favorites)

The Best of Times - Really liked it when it came, and it's still a great tune. The only bad thing i can say, is that the solo (while still being very good) sounds slightly cheesy, which drags down the overall point.
And the song clocks in at like what? 14-15 minutes? which feels very long, because i've never considered TBOT to be a DT-epic in the same group as ACOS/Octavarium or 6DOIT.

The Count of Tuscany - Good back then, and i still like it. I'm actually not the biggest fan of DT's longer songs (as many others are), i do like most of DT's epics, but they've never been amongst my favorite songs by them.
TCOT is one of those songs i really like, but i'm not sure it would place in my top25 DT-songs.

Offline fsh3702

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2010, 05:58:44 AM »
The problem is, I can't stand these full on mastered metal productions anymore. Same with the new Alter Bridge record, my ears just get tired because it is all so bombastic.

agree. comparing with the current "bombastic" the old DT was delicate and intricate.
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Offline Zydar

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2010, 06:06:42 AM »
I listened to TBOT this weekend after not listening to it for a few months, and I still got goosebumps when that solo came on.
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Offline ddtonfire

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Re: How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2010, 10:49:44 AM »
A Nightmare to Remember:
0:00 - 8:33: Brilliance
8:33 - 11:03: Standard solo section, cool unison
11:03 - 13:16: Not so much
13:16 - 16:11: Brilliance

I really like how the feel meshes with the storyline. It's classic.

A Rite of Passage:

I find myself skipping over this song more and more. It has some really cool sections, though. Not so fond of the change of pace in the solo sections though.

Wither:
Aged pretty well, the music video really helped that.

Shattered Fortress
I haven't listened to this since May. I started out liking it a lot, but quickly grew tired of it. I'm going to have to listen to it again.

Best of Times
I haven't listened to this since May. I never really got into it.

Count of Tuscany
Favorite DT song now. It has the most plays on my iPod. Amazing music, great intro, fun lyrics (that everyone takes too seriously... typical DT fans), great pace, multiple sections, perfect song.