How Have the Songs on BCSL Aged for You?

[ReaPsTA]

A Nightmare to Remember - The first eightish minutes of this song are still pretty good in spite of their flaws, but not really worth hearing in full considering how wrong I find the other eight minutes. Usually, I just listen to the Peaceful Sedation part by itself since it's still genius.

AROP - I've learned to really hate the instrumental section of this song. I still think the chorus is great. I like the verses. The prechorus is solid. Some good JM work even. But then when the song's building momentum, for some reason they decided to drop in another one to play solos over. So confusing.

Wither - This one's probably aged the best. The first time I heard it I liked it but didn't see the hype. Now I do. Easily JLB's best performance on this album. Love the keyboards, love the lyrics, love the emotional progression.  I think this might be the best crafted song on the album.

The Shattered Fortress - The vocal performances on this song just bug me. Which is a shame, because I still really like the music as a conclusion to the 12-step saga. The guitar solo in particular holds up really well. So aggressive without being shreddy.

The Best of Times - Guitar solo's still in Petrucci's top ten, but other than that I don't listen to it much if ever. I don't even know why.

The Count of Tuscany - I've learned to ignore the lyrics so I can pay attention to the music, which is fascinatingly multi-layered. Did you know that in the intro, when JR plays the strings at first, they have a chorus under them. And then when the melody changes before the first unison, the chorus changes to a french horn. Also, at first, JP's electric guitar has a clean guitar with delay under it, and then when the french horns go in, the clean guitar and delay go away. This makes the overall sound cleaner. Then, the bass also switches from laying down the 3/4 rhythm to following the guitar and keyboards. The drums change from a really rushing rhythm to a more hard hitting type of thing with the ride bell. The combination of all these changes fundamentally alters the mood so you feel like you're almost rising into the first unison. The song's full of fun things like that. So I guess it's aged well.

So, to sum it up.

Aged well - The Count of Tuscany, Wither
Somewhat neutral opinion - The Shattered Fortress, The Best of Times
Aged not well - A Nightmare to Remember, A Rite of Passage

Thread Focus: How do you think BCSL's music has aged? A song by song breakdown is nice but not necessary. Just don't write a post like "I was stoked by the album when I first got it, but now I see the flaws." I don't care.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

A Nightmare To Remember - Brilliantly
aRoP - Stayed the same.
Wither - Stayed the same.
The Shattered Fortress - Atrociously
The Best Of Times - Well
The Count Of Tuscany - Also well

[Vivace]

I still enjoy the album a lot and I still place it above everything they have done post SFAM. I'm sure it will get out soon that I am one of the .o1% who think 6 degrees is overrated. 

[Aniland]

Aged well - The Count of Tuscany, Wither
Somewhat neutral opinion - The Shattered Fortress, The Best of Times
Aged not well - A Nightmare to Remember, A Rite of Passage

Pretty close to how I feel, to be honest.

[Rafael Guerra]

A Nightmare To Remember - Aged well, always liked it.
A Rite Of Passage - Aged well after I saw it live
Wither - Stayed the same. Good song.
The Shattered Fortress - Aged VERY well.
The Best Of Times - Aged VERY Well
The Count Of Tuscany - Stayed the same. Best of album.

[ariich]

My opinion hasn't changed very much since the album came out. The Count of Tuscany grew on me the most (and I liked it a ton on first listen) to become my second favourite on the album behind Wither. The rest of the songs are very good with great parts, aside from AROP which is simply good but not great.

[Adami]

I've grown to like Wither quite a bit.
ANTR is still a good rocker, but I get bored around the 8 or 9 minute park.
AROP is still a decent song, nice rockin riff, good verses, pre chorus, boring everything else.
TSF hasn't aged well. Some great music, but the lyrics/vocals don't match very well till the middle sections and by that point I start to get bored, and I usually just skip it when the keyboard solo comes on.
TBOT has become a nice song, I still love the solo, the rest of the song is good fun and I can ignore the lyrics.
TCOT hasn't aged well at all. Still a great intro, and some good riffs here and there, and the ending is good, but a lot of it is just boring.

[robwebster]

For me, BCSL is a fairly... not neutral, but it's an album which neither falls behind nor stands out.

Wither is one of those brilliant little short songs, and A Rite of Passage is the token addictive rocker. Neither of them reinvent the wheel, sure, but neither of them come within a millimetre of being bad songs. The Shattered Fortress is one of those songs that I'm only likely to listen to in the context of the album, or the context of the Twelve-Step Suite. A Nightmare to Remember has gone from being my favourite song on the album to "just another Dream Theater song." It's a brilliant rocker with a wonderful chorus - and "Without warning" might be one of my favourite heavy passages in DT's catalogue - but everything after the last "Beautiful AAAAAAAAAAAGONYYY" I could take or leave. 'Cept that wonderful little passage (quoting the Without Warning bit) with the plinky plonky keys where everything goes quiet. That's brilliant.

The Best of Times is currently the one that's grown on me the most. I found it a wee bit pedestrian at first, and it used to be the "skip track," but then I listened to it once in juuuuust the right mood and it instantly clicked. Meanwhile The Count of Tuscany has stayed strong throughout, and while it's maybe not quite a top 10 DT song it's definitely in the top 20 for me.

It's middle of the road! It's stopped being exciting and magical, but that happens to all albums after the first few weeks - sadly. It's not as radical and thrilling as Systematic Chaos, it's not as masterfully composed and complete as Octavarium, but there is a certain "classiness" to it. If I had to choose a word, I'd call it the sensible DT album.

[juice]

A Nightmare to Remember - great
A Rite of Passage - decently
Wither - aged to be a good song
The Shattered Fortress - pretty good
The Best of Times - pretty good
The Count of Tuscany - great

[DarkEternalNight]

ANTR - Aged bad
AROP - Aged decent
Wither - Aged good
The Shattered Fortress - I was never blown away so decent
TBOT - Aged good
TCOT - Aged great

[Ħ]

ANtR -- Same as before.  Still very epic, possible top 20.
ARoP -- I always thought it was not that great.  It's only gotten worse.
Wither -- Thought it was awesome, but now it's just ok.
TSF-- Started off REALLY strong, but now it's just kinda strong.
TBoT -- Forgettable in the beginning.  Doesn't really strike a chord with me, but I've grown to appreciate it for what it is.
TCoT -- Started off as a top 3 DT song, but now it's like top 5.

[antigoon]

Just a note about ANTR: It's amazing to me how quickly the first seven minutes of that song go past while the last nine are just so. damn. slow. When the "Day after day" part kicks in, there's still nearly FIVE minutes left to go in the song! It's really a shame, because not only are the first seven/eight minutes so great, there's also some pretty neat music in the latter half of the song. Unfortunately, it's just too much.

[Quadrochosis]

The only song from Black Clouds that I ever listen to anymore is "The Count of Tuscany", and I listen to it about once a month, if even.

[King Postwhore]

Just a note about ANTR: It's amazing to me how quickly the first seven minutes of that song go past while the last nine are just so. damn. slow. When the "Day after day" part kicks in, there's still nearly FIVE minutes left to go in the song! It's really a shame, because not only are the first seven/eight minutes so great, there's also some pretty neat music in the latter half of the song. Unfortunately, it's just too much.

anti, that's exactly how I feel.  All the parts up to "Day after Day" is unbelievable but it does drag after.

[Cool Chris]

A Nightmare to Remember - The first eightish minutes of this song are still pretty good in spite of their flaws, but not really worth hearing in full considering how wrong I find the other eight minutes. (plagiarizing ReaPsTa here)

AROP - I've liked everything about this song except the soloing since the beginning. Enjoyed seeing it live more than I expected to, which brought it up a small notch.

Wither - I've always really liked this song and still rank it high up there. No change.

The Shattered Fortress - Nothing outstanding about this song either way, my feelings haven't changed much.

The Best of Times - I got too caught up in the negative comments people had about the lyrics at first, but once I learned to just accept them for what they were, I found myself enjoying the song more.

The Count of Tuscany - This was about a B/B+ song for me but like ARoP, seeing it live makes it a solid B+/A- in my book.

So in all, this was a boring post, as my feelings about the album and songs as a whole haven't changed much from the first listen.

The main thing I've thought about this album from the beginning, is that it isn't an album I'm going to pop in to listen to individual songs from, because none of them are that strong. But when listened to as a whole, there are no significant weak points either (save the last ~6-8 minutes of ANtR).

[TAC]

The thing about BC&SL is that when SC came out, I gave them a break. It took a lot of criticism, but after the emotion of Score, SC just seemed like a "fun" album. But with that, I had high expectations for their next release. But there's not a lot of separation between the two, so for that I was disappointed. I do like it very much, but I was expecting something far better.

Song by song has not changed. TCOT is still great as is TBOT.

[AtmosphericV]

BCSL is for me a very good album, and I really can't understand how people are saying that DT is becoming stale with the last albums. BCSL is for me a fresh and inspired album. ANTR should be 4 minutes shorter though, and AROP is a little long as well.

[Seventh Son]

BCSL is for me a very good album, and I really can't understand how people are saying that DT is becoming stale with the last albums. BCSL is for me a fresh and inspired album. ANTR should be 4 minutes shorter though, and AROP is a little long as well.

Well, to me it doesn't really sound like an evolution of their sound. They've always seemed to change their sound from album to album, but Black Clouds just doesn't feel that different.

[skydivingninja]

Black Clouds has a darker atmosphere than any DT album, IMO.  The last three songs are still godly, Wither and AROP are still solid, and ANTR is great until the "Beautiful Agony" section ends.  Its still a great album.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Awake wants a word with you!

[j]

ANTR - My overall opinion has stayed pretty much the same (starts strong, drags after the mellow section), but I wasn't impressed by this song at all at first, and now I like it okay.

AROP - Neutral.  Even when BC&SL first came out, I didn't think this song was as bad as everyone else seemed to.  I think it was unfairly shit on because it was the "single" and because of the presence of the ever-controversial bebot solo.  It's not great by any means, but it's decent, which puts it on par with most of the rest of this album.

Wither - Hasn't aged well.  It's all right, but the 80s ballad cliches stand out to me more and more with each listen.  LaBrie still sounds good to me though, and Petrucci's solo remains awesome.

TSF - Aged well.  I was completely underwhelmed by this song on first listen, but have grown to love the subtle (and not-so-subtle) nods to the rest of the suite as well as Petrucci's awesome guitar solo near the end.  Still not a great song, but solid.

TBOT - Neutral.  Didn't care for this when it came out, don't care for it now.  The lyrics are not good, the music is uninteresting, and it's not one of LaBrie's finer vocal performances.  Outro solo is still pretty cool, but not nearly enough to save the song from mediocrity.

TCOT - Hasn't aged well.  I was pretty much floored by this song after hearing it for the first time, and it considerably inflated my opinion of the album as a whole for awhile.  The lyrics were always weird, but I didn't really care for some reason (still don't); they just don't bother me, partly because I think they're at least partially supposed to be that way.  At any rate, I still think it's a pretty sweet song, but the middle part (with the verses and stuff) doesn't really hold my interest at all anymore, and if I listen to the song I usually fast forward through it.

I should also note that I haven't listened to BC&SL in a LONG time, so this is mostly from memory.

-J

[orcus116]

Black Clouds has a darker atmosphere than any DT album, IMO.  The last three songs are still godly, Wither and AROP are still solid, and ANTR is great until the "Beautiful Agony" section ends.  Its still a great album.

Interesting. I've always thought it had an neutral atmosphere since nothing ever jumped out as dark.

[TAC]

BCSL is for me a very good album, and I really can't understand how people are saying that DT is becoming stale with the last albums. BCSL is for me a fresh and inspired album. ANTR should be 4 minutes shorter though, and AROP is a little long as well.

Well, to me it doesn't really sound like an evolution of their sound. They've always seemed to change their sound from album to album, but Black Clouds just doesn't feel that different.

I agree with this...

I've always thought it had an neutral atmosphere since nothing ever jumped out as dark.

..and this.

[sonatafanica]

All the finest songs

IMPROVE WITH AGE

[Adami]

All the finest songs

IMPROVE WITH BALLS!

MPTFY

[skydivingninja]

Awake wants a word with you!

I'm not really sure how that slipped my mind.  I was thinking back to other albums and thinking that "BC&SL feels a lot darker than X, Y, Z, and Q," but for some reason Awake never crossed my mind.  I'd still hold my argument though, but Awake feels like a more...industrial darkness, while BC&SL seems more like an atmospheric darkness.  Does that make any sense?  Probably not. 

[orcus116]

Kind of like a Nine Inch Nails dark vs a Massive Attack dark? One's just cold and unfeeling while the other is brooding.

[Nick]

Aged well: A Rite of Passage, Wither, The Count of Tuscany
Aged normally: A Nightmare to Remember, The Best of Times
Aged poorly: The Shattered Fortress

I don't love TSF quite as much as I used to, but it's still a fantastic song and a great end to the 12 step saga.

[skydivingninja]

Kind of like a Nine Inch Nails dark vs a Massive Attack dark? One's just cold and unfeeling while the other is brooding.

Guess you could say that, except for "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" doesn't quite fit that NIN description or JLB's voice.

[IdoSC]

ANTR - I love it, thought it feels a bit too long, especially with the whole "here comes a horror movie" introduction. Then again, of course, Mike's "Day after day" section...

AROP - It's a nice song, though it didn't grow on me. Like I said somewhere else, instrumental break is nice for headbanging but that's about it.

Wither - awesome song, highlight of it is the Summersonic live edition imo, and also the piano version is great.

The Shattered Fortress - could be one of my favorite 12 Step Saga songs, it's really great all the way.

TBOT - I love this song...will be a horrible loss if they won't play it live now that Mike left.

TCOT - great song, and yet, the lyrics just kill it to me. I remember that interview where JP talked about it...sounds completely randomly written.

[The Dark Eternal Knight]

The album definitely has its weak points in terms of aging, but overall I think it aged well.

(10=Metropolis Pt. 1 on my scale)

ANTR: 6/10, had some great points and some bad points. Blast beats? Growling? I don't want death metal DT, I want progressive metal DT. I really hope the new drummer cannot growl. The song overall, though, would have done better if they shaved off 7 minutes or so.

AROP: 7.5/10, I don't get all the hate for the solo section? Its not that bad (bar Jordan's iPhone solo, that is hard to listen to). Regardless, catchy riffs, catchy chorus, just a good single, nothing more than that in my book.

Wither: 7.5/10, JR really does some fantastic things that are, unfortunately, buried in the mix . Even better single than AROP.

TSF: 8/10, Does well in concluding the 12 step suite. Really, just a solid song, not great, not bad, somewhere in the middle.

TBOT: 9/10, Intro solo somewhat reminiscent of the Hollow Years intro solo to me for some reason... One of JP's best solos. JR (once again) way too low in the mix at some points. Great melodies and theme. Great song overall.

TCOT: 10/10 a perfect song. Really, up there, for me (epics), with 8v, ACOS.

[LCArenas]

Aged well: Wither, The Count of Tuscany, A Nightmare to Remember
Aged normally: The Best of Times, The Shattered Fortress
Aged poorly: A Rite of Passage

[peruvianskynewhampshire]

I bought the box set and to tell ya the truth i listen to the no lyrics cd more than the other. I only wish the lead parts were included in the instrumental cd. I also listen to the cover cd more than the original cd as well.

[Plasmastrike]

Reap, your post is flawless man. Echoes my thoughts completely.

[MykeHavoc]

It has faired well I guess. The bad lyrics took me time to overcome, but I've learned to live with most of'em. I enjoy the variety in the music the most. In the scheme of things, it sits as my six favorite studio album in DT's discography.