Author Topic: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine  (Read 40078 times)

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Offline ariich

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #140 on: November 12, 2010, 03:17:31 AM »
That wasn't directed specifically at you, a number of people have commented on it in that way. But your tone did very much suggest that "nothing has changed", though it may just have been unfortunate wording.

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Offline tri.ad

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #141 on: November 12, 2010, 03:21:56 AM »
No, I was, as I said, merely stating that the mood of MP's statements in the interview and in his forum posts is very similar, that's all.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #142 on: November 12, 2010, 03:24:45 AM »
Fair enough, although it does rather seem like stating the obvious, which is why I assumed otherwise. Apologies. :)

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #143 on: November 12, 2010, 06:33:52 AM »
Also, I don't know why some people are so adamant that "Mike left so it's all his fault". Yes it can be seen that way, and from a different perspective it can be seen that they kicked him out.

I really don't think things can be construed as Mike was "kicked out." From what I've seen, the most plausible version of the story is something like:

Mike: Guys, let's go on a hiatus.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 or 3 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: Well I want to take three years off.
DT: Well, we're not.
Mike: Then I'm leaving.
DT: Okay, leave.
Mike: Okay, I'm leaving now.
DT: Bye!

::time passes::

DT: DRUMMER AUDITIONS THIS WEEK! THINGS ARE BETTER THAN EVER!
Mike: WTF GUYS???

Offline Lynxo

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #144 on: November 12, 2010, 06:42:02 AM »
Also, I don't know why some people are so adamant that "Mike left so it's all his fault". Yes it can be seen that way, and from a different perspective it can be seen that they kicked him out.

I really don't think things can be construed as Mike was "kicked out." From what I've seen, the most plausible version of the story is something like:

Mike: Guys, let's go on a hiatus.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 or 3 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: Well I want to take three years off.
DT: Well, we're not.
Mike: Then I'm leaving.
DT: Okay, leave.
Mike: Okay, I'm leaving now.
DT: Bye!

::time passes::

DT: DRUMMER AUDITIONS THIS WEEK! THINGS ARE BETTER THAN EVER!
Mike: WTF GUYS???

 :lol Awesome summary.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #145 on: November 12, 2010, 07:01:58 AM »
I really don't think things can be construed as Mike was "kicked out."
No less so that "Mike left", that's exactly my point.

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #146 on: November 12, 2010, 07:14:49 AM »
But he did leave. He wanted a break and the guys said no, so he left.

I can only relate it to my own experience. If right now I told my academic adviser "sorry, I need to take a break. I need to go back to the states and just clear my mind and figure out what's going on in my life so I can come back more energized than ever" and he replied, "no, you can't do that, and if you do we're just going to fill your spot and take on another research student," I would not try to pass it off as me being "kicked out of the program" if I decided to leave anyway. I would have "left."

"Mike left." That's all there is to it. He wasn't kicked out. He wouldn't have been kicked out if he didn't decide to quit on the guys when they were ready to record a new album and begin a new album/tour cycle.

Sorry, but I just feel like anything less than "Mike left" or even "Mike quit" is just sugar-coating the whole thing.

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #147 on: November 12, 2010, 09:32:01 AM »
I really don't think things can be construed as Mike was "kicked out."
No less so that "Mike left", that's exactly my point.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #148 on: November 12, 2010, 09:34:35 AM »
I think it is telling how badly Portnoy comes across, yet again, in this interview when you go read the thread on this at his own forum.  Since the transcript of Portnoy's part was posted there over a day ago, in the STICKIED thread, there is a grand total of 21 responses (some of which are not even about the actual comments).  Two years ago, something like that would have been on page 10 by now, but now, almost nothing.  I think that speaks volumes about a) how much traffic has fallen off on his forum since he has made himself look bad with his repeated comments about the split, and b) how many there probably don't want to say what they really think of his comments (for fear of either getting banned or being accused of being too critical or maybe just not wanting to bash the guy on his own site).  If there was a way to defend his comments, the average Portnoy fan over there would be defending him to death, and they would be doing it in masses, but no one really is.  That says it all.  

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #149 on: November 12, 2010, 09:38:46 AM »
That forum really has become a LOT less interesting. Me and my friend were talking about this a week or so ago. I feel like no-one visits anymore. I think that'll change though, when Portnoy decides to do something again (aside from A7X which, let's face it, is a hard sell for most Portnoy fans).

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #150 on: November 12, 2010, 10:10:15 AM »
I read the Portnoy interview on his site...

EEeeeeeeehhhhh uhhhhhhh wowwwwwww

There are so many bad things you can read into it.  Dissecting it line by line is uninteresting, especially since other people will inevitably point out the various unfortunate things he said, so I'll just stick to two answers that separately are interesting and in tandem say a lot.  First, the most unintentionally funny part of the interview:

Quote
I mean, we have one band member that would literally not even sit in the same room with the rest of us for years now and we'd only see him on stage or at meet and greets

Why pretend this is an even slightly ambiguous statement?  It's so obviously John Myung!!  It's so weird.  What's the point of not calling him out by name?  How does it soften the blow?  It also makes no sense.  If absolutely nothing else, Portnoy is honest.  Why backpedal here?

Now, however burnt out on this whole mess you think you are, the whole interview is an interesting read.  This is far more up front and personal than the Eddie Trunk appearance.  But this part was the most interesting:

Quote
Honestly, it had nothing to do with the music itself or the musical chemistry within the band. I was always very inspired when writing and recording together and am as proud of our last few albums as anything else in the catalog...

I don't understand how the musical chemistry can be separate from the personal chemistry.

At this point, since anyone asked about this has confirmed it, I think we can all just assume JM's role in writing the music since Train of Thought/Octavarium has become nil.  We can do that?  Great.

Now, if JM has so little investment in the music, what's his motivation then to be invested in the band in any level?  How different is he from a session musicians if he just lays down the bass lines and goes home?  Am I the only one who listened to the bass stems on BCSL?  There's no way JM would put out work that sloppy unless he really didn't care for some reason.

What's MP's plan then?  DT returns from a year off, makes another album with everyone playing the same roles as before, and then they act differently than they did before?  I mean, it's just baffling.  JM's supposed to be invested in the band for no reason?  How many different ways can I say this before I find one that makes my point?  Actually, let's try it a different way:

Post SFAM:  MP creates the 'form vocal melodies with lyrics' rule.  This affects no one in the band by JM.  Also, if you listen to ToT and FT, they're obviously MP's vocal melodies.  No way there wasn't personal tension involved here.

WDADRU Commentary:  Calling MP and JM's discussion about writing the music heated is an understatement.  There were so many layers of personal disagreement at work here that both of them weren't expressing due to being on mic.  The lack of band commentaries since this is also telling.  They recorded almost five hours of commentary before this and obviously enjoyed it.  Why stop unless this left a genuinely bad taste in their mouths?

2003 - 2005:  JM noticeably detachines from DT's writing.  This process completes itself on Systematic Chaos (when, to paraphrase Rudess, he, JP, and MP started writing essentially as a trio).

Now:  This interview.

One of my biggest theories in life that holds up repeatedly is "If there's smoke, there's fire."  When there's so much evidence of tension between MP and JM, how can you possibly conclude all the evidence is invalid in the absence of contradictory facts?  You can't without making preposterous leaps of logic.  Oh, also, didn't JLB say that JM has become far more outspoken in terms of suggesting ways to handle the situation?  I mean, shouldn't you be connecting the dots yourselves now?

One more thing worth quoting:

Quote
I suppose it also kills me that in the past the guys NEVER would question or ever debate my direction within the band. They always let me call the shots and always trusted my vision and guidance. And NOW, with such a huge and personal conflict...they disagreed with me for the first time...on the biggest decision of them all.

If we assume all this is true (which I believe is reasonable), then really, the conclusion is obvious.  MP has painted the situation in terms of him wanting to change up the band's dynamics with a break.  I'm not saying this is a political move - it's what he genuinely believes.  But really, it seems what he really wanted was to take a year off so the old way of doing things could continue with more interpersonal harmony and less friction.

The rest of the band were the ones who really decided something needed to change.  They made a major decision as a group for the first time in probably a decade.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 10:19:08 AM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline ariich

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #151 on: November 12, 2010, 10:14:43 AM »
But he did leave. He wanted a break and the guys said no, so he left.

I can only relate it to my own experience. If right now I told my academic adviser "sorry, I need to take a break. I need to go back to the states and just clear my mind and figure out what's going on in my life so I can come back more energized than ever" and he replied, "no, you can't do that, and if you do we're just going to fill your spot and take on another research student," I would not try to pass it off as me being "kicked out of the program" if I decided to leave anyway. I would have "left."

"Mike left." That's all there is to it. He wasn't kicked out. He wouldn't have been kicked out if he didn't decide to quit on the guys when they were ready to record a new album and begin a new album/tour cycle.

Sorry, but I just feel like anything less than "Mike left" or even "Mike quit" is just sugar-coating the whole thing.
Dude, not everything that happens will relate to things that you've experienced personally. Fair enough if the programme you're on is like that, but I know plenty of people who have taken sabbaticals from jobs or studies to do something different for a year or two.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #152 on: November 12, 2010, 10:15:15 AM »
I really don't think things can be construed as Mike was "kicked out."

Except for the fact that your summary takes a left turn off the Reality Highway halfway through.  It would be closer to accurate if it were more like:

Mike: Guys, let's go on a hiatus.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 or 3 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: Well I want to take three years off.
DT: Well, we're not.  We're going into the studio in January, with or without you.
Mike: But I can't go into the studio.  I need a break.
DT: Well, we're going into the studio, and we're not going in with a "temporary drummer," so if you aren't going in with us, I guess that's that.

You can think whatever you want about how Mike has been handling things, but let's at least be honest about the facts.
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Offline phentalmyst

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #153 on: November 12, 2010, 10:29:30 AM »
the one thing that keeps replaying in my head is how many times MP would say the PERSONAL chemistry in the band was "better than ever." who was he lying to, us or himself?

Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #154 on: November 12, 2010, 10:30:52 AM »
the one thing that keeps replaying in my head is how many times MP would say the PERSONAL chemistry in the band was "better than ever." who was he lying to, us or himself?
I don't think anyone is going to outright say that the band chemistry is bad unless they have a huge beef with the band.
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Offline phentalmyst

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #155 on: November 12, 2010, 10:33:34 AM »

If we assume all this is true (which I believe is reasonable), then really, the conclusion is obvious.  MP has painted the situation in terms of him wanting to change up the band's dynamics with a break.  I'm not saying this is a political move - it's what he genuinely believes.  But really, it seems what he really wanted was to take a year off so the old way of doing things could continue with more interpersonal harmony and less friction.


wait, so you're saying the quote about how other band members were complaining about day-to-day stuff might've actually been them stepping up and starting to disagree with how the band has been run, thereby making MP feel like he's losing control and asking for a break to regain it?

woah, that's intense! but not entirely unrealistic.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 10:51:10 AM by phentalmyst »

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #156 on: November 12, 2010, 10:36:35 AM »
Expanding on Reap's post, wasn't there a commentary where Myung discussed how much he liked the old days when they got together to jam and the songs came from that, which was then followed by 10 minutes of ragging on the guy about wanting to live in the past?  That gave me a pretty sour taste regarding the MP/JMX dynamic.  I think Reap's analysis is pretty solid, and yet another reason why I think this will lead to a big improvement in the quality of DT's music.  
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Offline phentalmyst

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #157 on: November 12, 2010, 10:38:49 AM »
the one thing that keeps replaying in my head is how many times MP would say the PERSONAL chemistry in the band was "better than ever." who was he lying to, us or himself?
I don't think anyone is going to outright say that the band chemistry is bad unless they have a huge beef with the band.

but i don't get his need to proclaim such brotherly love if it in fact wasn't true. i'm not saying he should've said it was bad, but this doesn't make sense. he was saying this just this time last year, but now it comes out that he started having these feelings of friction at that same time. something doesn't add up.

i think ReaPsTA is onto something here...

Offline j

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #158 on: November 12, 2010, 10:40:17 AM »
This Portnoy interview doesn't shed any new light or anything, it just confirms what we basically already knew.

My opinion remains the same: I think his request for a break was reasonable and well-founded, and I think DT would have been smart to go along with it.  But since they did not, he had to choose to leave or stay, and he chose to leave.  He was in no way "kicked out" of the band, and he's misrepresenting the situation by painting it as such.  I'm disappointed but not surprised at how he's handled the situation so far, and I'm excited to see what DT does next, with or without him.

Expanding on Reap's post, wasn't there a commentary where Myung discussed how much he liked the old days when they got together to jam and the songs came from that, which was then followed by 10 minutes of ragging on the guy about wanting to live in the past?  That gave me a pretty sour taste regarding the MP/JMX dynamic.  I think Reap's analysis is pretty solid, and yet another reason why I think this will lead to a big improvement in the quality of DT's music.  

Yeah I think it was in one of the WDADU commentaries.  People here have speculated that this has been the case for a long time, now there's something tangible to support it.

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Offline phentalmyst

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #159 on: November 12, 2010, 10:40:33 AM »
Expanding on Reap's post, wasn't there a commentary where Myung discussed how much he liked the old days when they got together to jam and the songs came from that, which was then followed by 10 minutes of ragging on the guy about wanting to live in the past?  That gave me a pretty sour taste regarding the MP/JMX dynamic.  I think Reap's analysis is pretty solid, and yet another reason why I think this will lead to a big improvement in the quality of DT's music.  

i couldn't agree more. JP's post on his forum in regards to writing both BEFORE and IN the studio for the next cd tells a lot about this as well. i'm really REALLY pulling for JM to step outside of himself now...

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #160 on: November 12, 2010, 10:40:42 AM »
You can think whatever you want about how Mike has been handling things, but let's at least be honest about the facts.

Okay, then. I was just *trying* to be funny. But, the point is, Mike left. He wasn't kicked out. He left. Quit. It's that simple. Anyone who thinks that it's ambiguous as to whether Mike left or Mike was "kicked out" is reading against everything we've been told so far...

Mike wanted to leave, and the guys didn't want to and told him they'd go on without him if he was leaving. So Mike left anyway. What I don't get is why some people think it actually makes Mike look bad or something for leaving. It's okay guys, to admit that Mike left on his on volition  :P

Dude, not everything that happens will relate to things that you've experienced personally.

Dude, as cool as we are and stuff, I don't think anyone here has EVER made as many sweeping generalizations about my thought-process as you seem to (mainly, every time we disagree about something).   ;)

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #161 on: November 12, 2010, 11:24:09 AM »

If we assume all this is true (which I believe is reasonable), then really, the conclusion is obvious.  MP has painted the situation in terms of him wanting to change up the band's dynamics with a break.  I'm not saying this is a political move - it's what he genuinely believes.  But really, it seems what he really wanted was to take a year off so the old way of doing things could continue with more interpersonal harmony and less friction.


wait, so you're saying the quote about how other band members were complaining about day-to-day stuff might've actually been them stepping up and starting to disagree with how the band has been run, thereby making MP feel like he's losing control and asking for a break to regain it?

woah, that's intense! but not entirely unrealistic.

People fundamentally misunderstand what power is.  You can't make anyone do anything.  Any control or influence you have over other people is because those other people allow you to have it.  Otherwise, employees quit companies, friends don't hang out, or (most radically) people would rather die than obey.

MP ran Dream Theater because he was allowed to.  I could be wrong, but it seems as though when MP drew his line in the sand with the one year hiatus, the rest of the band had the following collective realization:

"Oh shit, Mike thinks just because he said we should take a year off we'll just do it even if we don't like it.  This is bad for the band and we can't let it happen.  We need to clearly state as a group the next DT album begins production in January.  If we allow this to happen, how much more of our role as band members will just be taken away?"

How much buildup there was to this I don't know.  I don't know how much of my speculation was conscious vs. unconscious in the other band member's heads (I just believe something like this almost had to happen).  The only thing I'd really stake my life on is some kind of very real personal tension between MP and JM.
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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #162 on: November 12, 2010, 11:26:18 AM »
i hate this whole 'huge and personal conflict' and how it really made him need a break, comparing it to Rush when they took a break because Neil's family tragedies.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #163 on: November 12, 2010, 11:26:51 AM »
Reap', I think you're assuming way too much.
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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #164 on: November 12, 2010, 11:29:45 AM »
I really don't think things can be construed as Mike was "kicked out."

Except for the fact that your summary takes a left turn off the Reality Highway halfway through.  It would be closer to accurate if it were more like:

Mike: Guys, let's go on a hiatus.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 or 3 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: Well I want to take three years off.
DT: Well, we're not.  We're going into the studio in January, with or without you.
Mike: But I can't go into the studio.  I need a break.
DT: Well, we're going into the studio, and we're not going in with a "temporary drummer," so if you aren't going in with us, I guess that's that.

You can think whatever you want about how Mike has been handling things, but let's at least be honest about the facts.


Exactly. Just to clarify for those who haven't seen the article here's a summary that follows what's been said:
Mike: Guys, I need a break and think it would all do us good. Let's go on an indefinite hiatus, and we can all work on various projects - JL on his solo album/tour, JP on his solo album, JM on the latest Jelly Jam and JR on the zillion things he's got going on at all times.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: How about a year and a half?
DT: No.
Mike: What about a year?
DT: No.
Mike: Guys, I really need a break, but if pushed, I'd be willing to do some work in 2011.
DT: That's not good enough.  We're going into the studio in January, with or without you.
Mike: Can't you just use an interim drummer in the studio and tour?
DT: Look, we're going into the studio, and we're not going in with a "temporary drummer," so if you aren't going in with us, I guess that's that.
Mike: So you're saying either I have to go into the studio against my will, or leave the band?
DT: Yes.
---a week later---
DT: We feel the same way we did before - we plan on going into the studio in January - are you going with us or not?
Mike: I feel the same way I did last week too. If I were to go into the studio in January, I'd be forced to do so against my will, my heart wouldn't be into it, not to mention it's not fair to you guys (since I would be putting in a half-hearted effort). So as hard as it is for me to do it, I guess I'm gonna have to leave the band since there aren't any other options open.
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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #165 on: November 12, 2010, 11:35:44 AM »
>>>>I'm sorry, but MP still comes off poorly here. It's all about how this band is Mike's band, and how he called all the shots, and how he expected them to do what he wanted to do.

I don't know, I realize there is more behind the scenes, but again, why can't Mike see that as much as he worked on Dream Theater and worked on the band to build it, the band is BIGGER THAN MIKE PORTNOY.

You've got four other guys who rely on Dream Theater to not only make a living, but it is THEIR life work as well. You can't expect those four guys, during Dream Theater's peak of exposure (outside of Pull Me Under) to call it quits for awhile.

THAT IS SELFISH.

I totally get that MP wasn't into it. I get it. I get HE needed a break.

But again I say -- why didn't Rich Wilson ask MP if he went to them, and asked them this:

"How about I sit out this next album and tour cycle and we pay a drummer to play on the record and do the tour. I just am feeling burnt out, and need to get away for a bit, but don't want to leave what we created.">>>>>>>I SEE SCOTTY SAID THAT WAS SAID, BUT WHERE, PUBLICLY, WAS IT STATED THAT MIKE ASKED THAT (caps only so it is seen, not yelling).

>>>>But I don't see anything out in the public eye that shows that Mike asked this of the band. Had he, and the answer was still "NO," I would probably be a bit more sympathetic to Mike on this.

But as it sits, all this comes across as is (and these are my words, based on what I've read from MP): "This is MY band, and I told the guys what WE were doing, and they disagreed, and so I left and I'm shocked they are continuing after everything *I* did to make the band successful."


>>>>That is absolutely, 100 percent, selfish and egotistical. But that is what it comes off as.

I'm sorry, but the more MP opens his mouth, the worse he looks.

I swear, if MP just flat out stated that he said "hey, I DID ask the guys if *I* could go on hiatus and just bring in another drummer temporarily, and they told me no,"  I think most of us would be a bit more understanding. (AGAIN, WHERE IS IT PUBLICLY STATED BY MP THAT HE ASKED THIS OF THEM?)

But he has had ample opportunity to say that, and he hasn't. So as far as I can see and tell, this is basically Mike being flabbergasted that the four other guys in the band disagreed and wouldn't give Mike what he wanted, so Mike is crying about his OWN DECISION to leave.

A band is a BAND. It's not something where one guy calls the shots. You are GIVEN THAT POWER by your band members. If they all disagree with you, perhaps the person in the wrong is the one holdout.

I think everyone is entitled to feel the way they feel (MP). But if you are part of a business that is bigger than your individual wants and needs, then perhaps forcing the issue isn't the best idea. Here are two scenarios MIke could have done:

1. As stated before, ask the band for a personal hiatus, with a temp. drummer doing the album and tour.

(WHERE IS IT PUBLICLY STATED THAT THIS WAS ASKED BY MP TO THE BAND AS IS BEING CLAIMED UP ABOVE? again, caps only so it is seen, not yelling.)

2. If that doesn't work, stay in the band, but tell the guys you aren't going to partake in the writing sessions. You'll come in and do drums, but want to step back your role and investment in the band because of your burnout. Do the tours, and just mentally separate yourself a bit.


>>>>If those two things don't work for MP (and I am guessing they don't), then I don't know what to tell him. But to expect an entire band to say "ok Mike, we won't be Dream Theater because you don't want to," is ridiculous.

And as for Mike talking about how someone in the band stayed away from the rest of the band and only saw him on stage and meet and greets...apparently the rest of the band was willing to deal with it. Maybe you shouldn't have made as big of a deal as you did about this.

Seems to me, Jordan and James got along fine. Mike, JP, and Jordan seem fine. And JM...maybe JM IS disconnected, but not sure that's him either.

But if you are going to say things like this, don't be lame like this and not name names. Be a man.

Portnoy is so damn frustrating.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #166 on: November 12, 2010, 11:45:00 AM »
I'm pretty sure whatever the effect this interview was supposed to have according to MP, it didn't do that. To me it almost read like an interview with a dictator who was complaining that his minions staged an uprising.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #167 on: November 12, 2010, 11:54:37 AM »
Little open note to MP:

Mike - with ALL respect dude, where (or why haven't you if you haven't) is it publicly stated that you asked the band to let YOU go on a personal hiatus and to do an album and the tour with a temporary drummer, and that the band told you NO on that. I think many people would be more sympathetic to what you are saying, if you asked the band that, and they declined. Because if you did, and they said no, it pretty much shows that you did all that you could.

But I don't see that posted publicly anywhere that you asked that of them. People say you did, but no one has seen anything publicly where you have definitively stated that you asked that of your former bandmates.

Because right now, respectfully, you come off really poorly dude. I am an open critic of you in regard to how things you say come off, but you are one of my favorite drummers to see perform. But as a fan, I can't just give you a pass when you look bad like this.

The band may have some internal issues, but apparently the other four guys were willing to continue with them, and handle them as they came up. YOU weren't. Isn't part of being in a band realizing that you alone don't dictate decisions? You may have been the band leader, but you were given that leadership by your bandmates (where in fact, or just by default because they trusted you). But as with all leaders, you have to realize that the band is bigger than the individual, no matter who that individual is, or what your role in the band is.

I wish you the best, MP, but I really wish you'd answer that question above.
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Offline Kyo

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #168 on: November 12, 2010, 12:03:14 PM »
Expanding on Reap's post, wasn't there a commentary where Myung discussed how much he liked the old days when they got together to jam and the songs came from that, which was then followed by 10 minutes of ragging on the guy about wanting to live in the past?  That gave me a pretty sour taste regarding the MP/JMX dynamic.  I think Reap's analysis is pretty solid, and yet another reason why I think this will lead to a big improvement in the quality of DT's music.  

I agree. I remember being really startled by the whole commentary incident and I also remember how Portnoy tried to play it down once people started discussing it. His claims that they were all happy with their roles within the band and getting along better than ever didn't sound quite right then and the later revelation that Myung wasn't even writing with them anymore didn't really go with that, either.

the one thing that keeps replaying in my head is how many times MP would say the PERSONAL chemistry in the band was "better than ever." who was he lying to, us or himself?

That's a very good question!
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Offline phentalmyst

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #169 on: November 12, 2010, 12:15:38 PM »


But again I say -- why didn't Rich Wilson ask MP if he went to them, and asked them this:

"How about I sit out this next album and tour cycle and we pay a drummer to play on the record and do the tour. I just am feeling burnt out, and need to get away for a bit, but don't want to leave what we created.">>>>>>>I SEE SCOTTY SAID THAT WAS SAID, BUT WHERE, PUBLICLY, WAS IT STATED THAT MIKE ASKED THAT (caps only so it is seen, not yelling).


it was asked. JR mentioned it. the band thought that would be viewed as half-assed.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #170 on: November 12, 2010, 12:16:41 PM »
Samsära, with all due respect, there are two problems with what you are advocating in your last two posts:

1.  Mike doesn't owe anybody a more detailed public explanation.  He just doesn't.

2.  It's not about people being more sympathetic if we would say something along the lines of what you want him to say.  People always want to seem to look for someone to blame.  If Mike asked for options and the band said no, some people may want that info brought to light so make is less to blame and the band can share some of the blame.  Fine.  People can think that all they want.  But maybe the higher road to take for us the fans (i.e. us who are not the five individuals who are actually involved in the situation) is to not worry about assigning blame to anybody.  

What gets frustrating about a lot of this discussion is that people feel the need to demand that the answer to the question "Did Mike leave?" to be a simple "yes."  It isn't.  It's "yes, but..."  And the "but" and what follows are things that it would be nice to have all the details on.  But we're not entitled to the details just because we buy the albums.  Yet everybody wants to fill in the blanks with something that just has to make somebody the bad guy.  Well, I hate to say it, but in life, you don't always find the villain wearing the black hat because sometimes he just ain't there.  Sometimes, things just happen for reasons that are tough to explain.  And usually, the explanations will be very different depending on which side you talk to because people just have different perspectives depending on where they are standing.  I don't know why people have to make assumptions about situations and then project those assumptions onto everything that happens afterward as if it is somehow fact, and then demand that the parties involved (DT and Mike) cough up information that backs up those assumtions.  That just doesn't make sense to me.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #171 on: November 12, 2010, 12:22:27 PM »
bosk,

WIth equal respect, if Mike is going to whine and complain and talk about how devastated he is, he absolutely owes a detailed explanation.

Because he obviously wants fans to react, otherwise he wouldn't be having people post this stuff. Tell the entire story, give us the full explanation, or just be quiet. Period.

If it is YES BUT, then explain the BUT, so people can make an informed judgment (which is what we ALL do), instead of a half-assed one.

p.s. and if that question I am asking HAS been asked, publicly, then POST WHERE THAT ANSWER IS. Because quite frankly, that question goes a long way in shaping how people will react to Portnoy leaving.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #172 on: November 12, 2010, 12:24:03 PM »
 I dunno, but I would say we have a pretty good understanding by this point of what went down. Mike was running a tight ship, a very tight ship it seems, where everything was top-down. I can't see the rest of the band having been too excited over this historical development, and when Mike approached them about this hiatus, I think there was just the perfect storm. They felt his demand was unmeetable, and they probably also saw the opportunity for a more equal band. Had they agreed to his request, they might as well have renamed the band to "Mike Portnoy presents Dream Theater". So, they didn't really have much choice, and from the bands' unsuccessful restraint of their excitement I think it's safe to say they felt relieved when this had gone down. They didn't like the fact that they had lost of a friend in the process, but they like the new avenues this presents.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #173 on: November 12, 2010, 12:26:58 PM »
As more time goes on, Portnoy being a huge fan of both Roger Waters and Lars Ulrich makes a lot more sense. :lol

Offline phentalmyst

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Re: Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine
« Reply #174 on: November 12, 2010, 12:29:11 PM »
bosk,
p.s. and if that question I am asking HAS been asked, publicly, then POST WHERE THAT ANSWER IS. Because quite frankly, that question goes a long way in shaping how people will react to Portnoy leaving.

re-read my post. it was asked in the PROG interview. JR mentioned it. the band thought that would be viewed as half-assed.