Pope made to sit down and behave himself by the Queen

[hefdaddy42]

Martin Luther FTW

[soundgarden]

I actually agree completely with Bosk and very much respect his view on this because, with respect to his religious beliefs, he is being very true which many people of their own faiths fail to do.

He doesn't *think* that the pope is a charlatan.  By his beliefs he genuinely sees it as fact.  It is not insulting.  It is just his take on it.    For him to admit that there may be some truth in what the Pope says, of which are contradictory to his beliefs, would be backing away from his own faith.

For example, I believe all gods are man made creations and all prophets throughout history were charlatans (whether purposefully or misguided).  NO ONE should be offended by this because to say "no my god is real, but his is not" is partially accepting MY belief and thus partially rejecting ones own.

So Bosk: I agree with your view on the pope.  But I extend that to all the important figures of your faith.  And as long as you don't crucify me or blow up my home then we cool bro 

[Perpetual Change]

Wouldn't it have been far, far worse to have forced the Pope to stand? Seriously!

[GuineaPig]

Martin Luther FTW

Now there's a guy the Pope should get after for denying common humanity with Jews 

[Genowyn]

I clicked on the page, and upon seeing the start image of the video, my first thought was "Wow, now there's two relics of the past! And they look as old as they are irrelevant."

rumborak

Definitely agree but in fairness there are people that actually look up to the Pope. No one looks up to the Queen.

Just millions of citizens around the Commonwealth.

Please do visit some Commonwealth countries and ask how we feel about the queen sometime.

[Perpetual Change]

As an American currently living in Hong Kong, I, for some strange reason, love the Royal Family. There's no real explanation for it. I just think they all seem rather admirable. Also, as a *practicing* Christian and *non practicing* Catholic, I'm more interested in what the Royal Family does than I am the Pope.

And I'm being completely serious about this, regardless of how I may have troll'd Andy threads in the past.

[orcus116]

But what does the Queen do? I feel like she's just a figurehead of nothing important with a lot of money that just sits there because "that's how it was in the old days".

[Genowyn]

But what does the Queen do? I feel like she's just a figurehead of nothing important with a lot of money that just sits there because "that's how it was in the old days".

She prorogues parliament when the PM asks her nicely so that he can't be voted out of power.

[TempusVox]

There is a fine line between expressing your personal religious beliefs, whether you feel they can be supported or not, and being insensitive to the beliefs of others. It's a mistake not to recognize that.

[AndyDT]

I clicked on the page, and upon seeing the start image of the video, my first thought was "Wow, now there's two relics of the past! And they look as old as they are irrelevant."

rumborak

Definitely agree but in fairness there are people that actually look up to the Pope. No one looks up to the Queen.

Just millions of citizens around the Commonwealth.

Please do visit some Commonwealth countries and ask how we feel about the queen sometime.

No need:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307322/Australians-want-monarchy-according-poll.html

And a survey taken two weeks before the recent general election and released yesterday showed that 48 per cent of Australians said there should be no change in the country’s links with the monarchy.

Meanwhile, 44 per cent said a republic should be established – a fall of 8 per cent since 2008.

The drop of eight per cent since 2008 means that support for a republic is at its lowest since 1994, five years before Australia had a referendum on the topic, which also failed to glean support for cutting ties with the monarchy.

[AndyDT]

But what does the Queen do? I feel like she's just a figurehead of nothing important with a lot of money that just sits there because "that's how it was in the old days".

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1239787/Tireless-Queen-shows-sign-letting-age-83.html

she conducted 375 visits, investitures and audiences in 2009 - two decades after most people her age retired.

The number is slightly down on the 417 she performed in 2008, largely because she undertook only one overseas state visit last year rather than the normal two.

A trip to the Middle East was cancelled at the last minute so the Queen could stay in Britain to greet world leaders attending the G20 summit in London.

[emindead]

But what does the Queen do? I feel like she's just a figurehead of nothing important with a lot of money that just sits there because "that's how it was in the old days".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2owq3LN_Y&#t=3m27s

[El JoNNo]

I agree with pretty much all of that, notwithstanding that I think I must somehow be insane to admit I am agreeing with El Jonno on religious issues. 

....

Something isn't right with the universe; I'm going to be very nervous until 2012.

[hefdaddy42]

Martin Luther FTW

Now there's a guy the Pope should get after for denying common humanity with Jews 

Nobody's perfect.

[Bombardana]

I eagerly await seeing how spectacularly he will manage to piss everyone off again tomorrow.

[Perpetual Change]

But what does the Queen do? I feel like she's just a figurehead of nothing important with a lot of money that just sits there because "that's how it was in the old days".

I get your point, but Andy's not completely off base about people missing the common wealth. For example, here in Hong Kong, there's nothing people want MORE than to be back under the flag of the UK. Even though mainland Chinese people are much closer in proximity and ethnicity to Hong Kong people, every single HK person I've talked to so far is absolutely terrified of the fact that their city/island will once again be under Chinese control, and wish the British never let go of the colony. In fact, when I've asked people how they felt about the independence ceremony 10 years or so ago, most people I've talked to, especially those who were children at the time, say they were absolutely horrified.

[rumborak]

I think Hong Kong is a very special case there, and I would guess that HK would join just about anything that would promise protection from Chinese rule.

rumborak

[Genowyn]

I think Hong Kong might be the exception in this instance, though. I can certainly understand why one would rather be a citizen of the British Empire than a citizen of China, but personally I don't like that an old lady 3000 miles away from me has the ability to suspend our government if they ask nicely.

[rumborak]

Unless I am mistaken, I have the impression that if the Queen really tried to exert her power on Canada, South Africa or Australia by e.g. suspending the government against the public will, there would just be one giant middle finger sent over the ocean. That is, those countries remain in the Commonwealth as long as it means pretty parades and hand waving by the Queen. But if push came to shove, the Queen would be kicked out in an instant.

rumborak

[Perpetual Change]

I think Hong Kong is a very special case there, and I would guess that HK would join just about anything that would promise protection from Chinese rule.

rumborak

Eh, I see what you mean, but I'm definitely not getting an "anyone but China" feeling from these people. I'm getting more of a "we genuinely loved the freedom and cultural exchange we had with the British" vibe. Seriously. People here still care about the British Soccer teams and stuff, even. And no, I refuse to call that sport "football," ever.

[Genowyn]

Well, when I say suspending the government, I mean she puts parliament on hold, not sure if that was clear.

Either way, the thing is that she has done it. Recently. There were plans in parliament to get together and force a federal election, which our current PM was afraid he would lose, I suppose. So, he calls up the Queen or the Governor General and asks her to prorogue parliament, and suddenly he gets a nice vacation and no federal election threatening his position.

[rumborak]

I have to say, I weep for your country's lack of self-determination in this case. I have only ever lived in completely self-determined democracies (Germany, US) and some old hag thousands of miles away putting my own government on hold would be unbearable in either Germany or the US.

rumborak

[Genowyn]

Believe me, there was plenty of public outcry, people urging the MPs to ignore the prorogue and go to parliament anyways (there is a precedent for this, but obviously the MPs aren't going to do any more work than they have to), and of course plenty of people pushing for complete independence from Britain. The problem is we need to wait for at least one or two more generations to die out until we have a voting majority of people born AFTER we got our own Constitution, so that the idea of us being separate from the UK seems more natural.

[GuineaPig]

Well, when I say suspending the government, I mean she puts parliament on hold, not sure if that was clear.

Either way, the thing is that she has done it. Recently. There were plans in parliament to get together and force a federal election, which our current PM was afraid he would lose, I suppose. So, he calls up the Queen or the Governor General and asks her to prorogue parliament, and suddenly he gets a nice vacation and no federal election threatening his position.

Governor General does not equal the Queen.  While technically the Governor General is the representative of the Queen, the decision to prorogue exists entirely with the Governor General.

[Genowyn]

I was under the impression that the fiasco from last year was straight from the queen, not from the Governor General, but even so. Being that she is the representative of the queen, if we didn't have a queen, we wouldn't have a Governor General, and then we wouldn't have someone to prorogue parliament whenever Harper feels threatened.

[GuineaPig]

Nope.  It's on the GG.

But having a GG has its advantages too.  We just haven't been having too many constitutional crises recently.

[rumborak]

I don't know. Sounds like something that can (and has been) abused for political gain, and worse, can when done right completely disable the whole democracy.

rumborak

[AndyDT]

But what does the Queen do? I feel like she's just a figurehead of nothing important with a lot of money that just sits there because "that's how it was in the old days".

I get your point, but Andy's not completely off base about people missing the common wealth. For example, here in Hong Kong, there's nothing people want MORE than to be back under the flag of the UK. Even though mainland Chinese people are much closer in proximity and ethnicity to Hong Kong people, every single HK person I've talked to so far is absolutely terrified of the fact that their city/island will once again be under Chinese control, and wish the British never let go of the colony. In fact, when I've asked people how they felt about the independence ceremony 10 years or so ago, most people I've talked to, especially those who were children at the time, say they were absolutely horrified.

It's a shame in a lot of ways I think. Also, people from Singapore I've met often have a deep respect for the British Empire.

[AndyDT]

I have to say, I weep for your country's lack of self-determination in this case. I have only ever lived in completely self-determined democracies (Germany, US) and some old hag thousands of miles away putting my own government on hold would be unbearable in either Germany or the US.

rumborak

Self-determining democracy? Germany gave away the DM to the "Euro" and the centralisation which that entails for which millions of Germans are now paying the price. The Commonwealth is not about centralisation not was the British Empire, even in America where to my knowledge each of the 13 states had assemblies and where there was a large loyalist base right up until the declaration of independence.

[Perpetual Change]

Not sure how large that base could have been. Around 15 percent?

[yorost]

It was something around that for loyalists, yeah.  I don't think they actually know for sure, but the split was something along the lines of 40-40-20, for rebelling, refusing to take sides, and staying loyal.  Loyalists weren't always supportive of the crown so much as they didn't want anything to risk the lives they had created for themselves.

[Progmetty]

Speaking of the Queen; is it true that she's the last living person to have worn a commanding military uniform during WW2?

[rumborak]

I have to say, I weep for your country's lack of self-determination in this case. I have only ever lived in completely self-determined democracies (Germany, US) and some old hag thousands of miles away putting my own government on hold would be unbearable in either Germany or the US.

rumborak

Self-determining democracy? Germany gave away the DM to the "Euro" and the centralisation which that entails for which millions of Germans are now paying the price. The Commonwealth is not about centralisation not was the British Empire, even in America where to my knowledge each of the 13 states had assemblies and where there was a large loyalist base right up until the declaration of independence.

Whatever Germany chooses to do with its rights is completely its own business. See, Germany *chose* to adopt the Euro. I doubt the Commonwealth countries have the choice of having their parliament prorogued by an inherently foreign potentate.
A monarchy is the exact opposite of a self-determining democracy, no matter how you twist it. And especially when that Queen lives on a different continent than you.

rumborak

[AndyDT]

I have to say, I weep for your country's lack of self-determination in this case. I have only ever lived in completely self-determined democracies (Germany, US) and some old hag thousands of miles away putting my own government on hold would be unbearable in either Germany or the US.

rumborak

Self-determining democracy? Germany gave away the DM to the "Euro" and the centralisation which that entails for which millions of Germans are now paying the price. The Commonwealth is not about centralisation not was the British Empire, even in America where to my knowledge each of the 13 states had assemblies and where there was a large loyalist base right up until the declaration of independence.

Whatever Germany chooses to do with its rights is completely its own business. See, Germany *chose* to adopt the Euro. I doubt the Commonwealth countries have the choice of having their parliament prorogued by an inherently foreign potentate.
A monarchy is the exact opposite of a self-determining democracy, no matter how you twist it. And especially when that Queen lives on a different continent than you.

rumborak

My point is that the currency is no longer something Germany controls.
A constitutional monarchy is different from the absolute or executive monarchies of the continent and has outlived them and been extremely successful system of government with the Queen remaining head of state in 16 countries including Jamaica, Canada and New Zealand.

[orcus116]

I can't think of anything, in 2010, that is more archaic than someone politically controlling a country like New Zealand from literally halfway around the world.