Author Topic: Kevin Moore thread  (Read 63603 times)

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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #245 on: November 02, 2020, 07:55:21 AM »
The link seems no longer to be working.  Hmm...

It'll never be open again

Still works for me.

He has been very quiet on his Patreon page. Hoping he will start releasing music again next year.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #246 on: November 02, 2020, 02:54:54 PM »
The link seems no longer to be working.  Hmm...

It'll never be open again

Still works for me.

It worked for me now as well.  Temporary glitch, I guess.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #247 on: November 03, 2020, 02:03:32 PM »
The link seems no longer to be working.  Hmm...

It'll never be open again

Still works for me.

He has been very quiet on his Patreon page. Hoping he will start releasing music again next year.
Would be nice. I have actually been fidgeting around on Canva making imaginary album artwork for the next Chroma Key out of photos of my old neighborhood :mora:

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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #248 on: November 05, 2020, 09:27:34 AM »
The link seems no longer to be working.  Hmm...

It'll never be open again

Still works for me.

He has been very quiet on his Patreon page. Hoping he will start releasing music again next year.

Patreon, is now looking more as a way to help him throughout his schooling. I don't mind that at all, as we got some great songs in the meantime, it was a nice trade-off, We fund him for his school, and we get good music. That's just smart thinking.

Now, I hope he gets all these demoes, and records these songs with better production, and releases and album.
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Online TAC

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #249 on: January 13, 2022, 07:10:51 PM »
So...I'm not what you'd call a Kevin Moore fanboy. To me, OSI and Chroma Key are unlistenable. UNLISTENABLE.

However, I became a fan of Dream Theater in the summer of 1992, and literally listened to nothing but Dream Theater for the better part of the next year and a half.

I saw them 4 times on the I&W tour, and was trading bootlegs at the time. So I not only had I&W, but a number of concert recordings as well. In the Album Listening Thread, I posted that I will be going through the DT Live Eras over the next few months. I dedicated this week to the I&W Era.

Images And Words is the greatest album these ears have ever heard. It's pretty much perfect. And live, the band was the greatest live band I'd ever seen. Kevin Moore easily meshed with the vituostic talents of JP, MP, and JM...and JLB for that matter. Those early unisons with JP set the stage for the JR Era.

But there was an..elegance that he brought to Dream Theater. DT has made so much great music over their career, but I really don't think they ever achieved the magic that was created in '92-'93.

It's funny. I rank Awake very highly, but when it came out, it was kind of a head scratcher. I still remember my very first listen. It wasn't until I got to the last song, Space Dye Vest, that I thought matched the...again..the elegance of I&W. I know KevMo played some nice shadings and colors to Awake, but he is really AWOL on that album IMO.


One bootleg, I think it's Osaka, is very keyboard heavy, so you can almost listen to KevMo in isolation. I think Only A Matter Of Time was his strongest performance.


Anyway, I just wanted to give a shout out to Kevin Moore, as he really stood out to me over the last week while listening to a number of DT live shows.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #250 on: January 13, 2022, 07:27:42 PM »

It's funny. I rank Awake very highly, but when it came out, it was kind of a head scratcher. I still remember my very first listen. It wasn't until I got to the last song, Space Dye Vest, that I thought matched the...again..the elegance of I&W. I know KevMo played some nice shadings and colors to Awake, but he is really AWOL on that album IMO.



Anyway, I just wanted to give a shout out to Kevin Moore, as he really stood out to me over the last week while listening to a number of DT live shows.

It would be interesting to hear how Awake would have turned out keyboard-wise if Kevin hadn’t left the band. May be urban legend, but I was always under the impression the band intentionally toned down/kept some of the keyboard parts out of the final mix after Kevin announced he was leaving the band. Not that Awake has a lot of room for lots of airy keyboard sounds, but I wonder if there was supposed to be a bit more of a Kevin Moore presence before he quit. I suppose the demos might shed some light there (have never heard those).

I agree there was something magical about Kevin’s writing and playing that DT never recaptured after he left. There was virtuosity there, but not at the expense of melody or well structured parts. I think Kevin was maybe the most “artsy” of the band members for lack of a better word, which sent him off in a different direction from the band, but also was something Derek and Jordan didn’t quite replace (even if I might prefer Derek of the three on most days - he’s kind of a good blend between virtuosity and rock vibe, sort of a middle ground between Kevin and Jordan).

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #251 on: January 13, 2022, 07:30:17 PM »
So...I'm not what you'd call a Kevin Moore fanboy. To me, OSI and Chroma Key are unlistenable. UNLISTENABLE.

And I thought I was the only one... :eek

I think that, outside of DT, the only KM stuff I like are the Fates Warning albums he's part of.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Herrick

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #252 on: January 13, 2022, 07:36:07 PM »
May be urban legend, but I was always under the impression the band intentionally toned down/kept some of the keyboard parts out of the final mix after Kevin announced he was leaving the band.

Why would they do that?
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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #253 on: January 13, 2022, 07:37:09 PM »
So...I'm not what you'd call a Kevin Moore fanboy. To me, OSI and Chroma Key are unlistenable. UNLISTENABLE.

And I thought I was the only one... :eek

I think that, outside of DT, the only KM stuff I like are the Fates Warning albums he's part of.

The first Chroma Key album isn’t so far afield from something like Space Dye Vest (at least in places). That album and the first OSI are both albums I really enjoy. The second Chroma Key less so, but it has some cool parts. OSI dropped off fast after the debut I thought.

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #254 on: January 13, 2022, 07:42:36 PM »
May be urban legend, but I was always under the impression the band intentionally toned down/kept some of the keyboard parts out of the final mix after Kevin announced he was leaving the band.

Why would they do that?

Not sure why or if they would (though something similar happened when Steve Hackett left Genesis), just something I remember reading at some point. But it may have just been speculation. I may be confusing it with a record company directive to produce a darker, heavier album.

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #255 on: January 13, 2022, 07:48:41 PM »
Not that Awake has a lot of room for lots of airy keyboard sounds, but I wonder if there was supposed to be a bit more of a Kevin Moore presence before he quit. I suppose the demos might shed some light there (have never heard those).


Huh. I ignored the Awake Demos when they were first released on Ytsejam, but now I think I'm intrigued to hear them.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #256 on: January 13, 2022, 11:07:48 PM »
It would be interesting to hear how Awake would have turned out keyboard-wise if Kevin hadn’t left the band. May be urban legend, but I was always under the impression the band intentionally toned down/kept some of the keyboard parts out of the final mix after Kevin announced he was leaving the band. Not that Awake has a lot of room for lots of airy keyboard sounds, but I wonder if there was supposed to be a bit more of a Kevin Moore presence before he quit. I suppose the demos might shed some light there (have never heard those).

I'd have to double-check Lifting Shadows, but I don't think KM announced his plans to leave the band until after Awake was finished.
Edit: never mind on this part, the book says "towards the end of the recording sessions" not "after"

MP has gone on record saying that if the band knew he was leaving, they wouldn't have included Space-Dye Vest on the album, given how personal the song is. With that in mind, since this was something they'd want to do but felt it was too late, I don't think diminishing KM's already-made contributions to the album (once they did know he was leaving) was a priority that late in the process.
Quote
"When we first heard [Space-Dye Vest] we thought it was so very, very different we didn't think we even wanted to fuck with it," [MP] explains. "At the time we decided to put 'Space-Dye Vest' on the album because we thought Kev was staying in the band. In retrospect, if we had known earlier that he would be leaving I don't think we would even have put in on the album."
Lifting Shadows p136

Awake also had its final mix done without oversight from the band, because the band weren't happy with the earlier mixes done with their input.
Quote
"Well yeah. We tried doing it one way and that didn't work," admitted James [LaBrie]. "We were all in the studio when it first started and it was just unfair to the producers. Obviously each guy was focusing on his instrument, so it was like 'Wait, I want me up more!' So they were trying to please everyone and you just can't do that. You have to have some objectivity, so they were left alone."
Lifting Shadows p126
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 11:31:45 PM by IDontNotDoThings »
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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #257 on: January 13, 2022, 11:44:17 PM »

Awake also had its final mix done without oversight from the band, because the band weren't happy with the earlier mixes done with their input.
Quote
"Well yeah. We tried doing it one way and that didn't work," admitted James [LaBrie]. "We were all in the studio when it first started and it was just unfair to the producers. Obviously each guy was focusing on his instrument, so it was like 'Wait, I want me up more!' So they were trying to please everyone and you just can't do that. You have to have some objectivity, so they were left alone."
Lifting Shadows p126

It could be that what I'm thinking of is without Kevin in the room advocating for his own parts, they weren't brought out as much as maybe they could have been. As you note though, the producers got to do the final product, so it would have been their call and not the band's if his parts were downplayed.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #258 on: January 14, 2022, 12:10:49 AM »

Awake also had its final mix done without oversight from the band, because the band weren't happy with the earlier mixes done with their input.
Quote
"Well yeah. We tried doing it one way and that didn't work," admitted James [LaBrie]. "We were all in the studio when it first started and it was just unfair to the producers. Obviously each guy was focusing on his instrument, so it was like 'Wait, I want me up more!' So they were trying to please everyone and you just can't do that. You have to have some objectivity, so they were left alone."
Lifting Shadows p126

It could be that what I'm thinking of is without Kevin in the room advocating for his own parts, they weren't brought out as much as maybe they could have been. As you note though, the producers got to do the final product, so it would have been their call and not the band's if his parts were downplayed.

Maybe, but when the band learnt of KM's intent to leave the band, they didn't tell anyone until at least after the album was already finished. So if the producers wanted to downplay KM's playing, it was for a different reason than his departure, since they wouldn't have known at the time.
Quote
The departure of the keyboard player had been kept under wraps and away from the record label until the last possible moment, hoping that they could quietly find a replacement and avoid unsettling their East West paymasters.

[...]

"As soon as we finished recording we went home for the wedding" recalls Mike. "Even at my wedding we knew that Kev was leaving the band as he had already told us, but we hadn't told anybody else. The label and management were getting fired up for the new album, and we didn't want to take the wind from anyone's sails. We just wanted to deliver the record before anybody knew about it."
Lifting Shadows p130
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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #259 on: January 14, 2022, 07:12:55 AM »

Awake also had its final mix done without oversight from the band, because the band weren't happy with the earlier mixes done with their input.
Quote
"Well yeah. We tried doing it one way and that didn't work," admitted James [LaBrie]. "We were all in the studio when it first started and it was just unfair to the producers. Obviously each guy was focusing on his instrument, so it was like 'Wait, I want me up more!' So they were trying to please everyone and you just can't do that. You have to have some objectivity, so they were left alone."
Lifting Shadows p126

It could be that what I'm thinking of is without Kevin in the room advocating for his own parts, they weren't brought out as much as maybe they could have been. As you note though, the producers got to do the final product, so it would have been their call and not the band's if his parts were downplayed.

Maybe, but when the band learnt of KM's intent to leave the band, they didn't tell anyone until at least after the album was already finished. So if the producers wanted to downplay KM's playing, it was for a different reason than his departure, since they wouldn't have known at the time.
Quote
The departure of the keyboard player had been kept under wraps and away from the record label until the last possible moment, hoping that they could quietly find a replacement and avoid unsettling their East West paymasters.

[...]

"As soon as we finished recording we went home for the wedding" recalls Mike. "Even at my wedding we knew that Kev was leaving the band as he had already told us, but we hadn't told anybody else. The label and management were getting fired up for the new album, and we didn't want to take the wind from anyone's sails. We just wanted to deliver the record before anybody knew about it."
Lifting Shadows p130

Ah, interesting. Then it was likely more that the producers, record company, and/or band just wanted a heavier, less keyboard oriented release to begin with.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #260 on: January 14, 2022, 07:24:47 AM »
IDontNotDoThings, thanks for posting those quotes. I didn't know about some of those details.
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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #261 on: January 14, 2022, 08:01:09 AM »
So...I'm not what you'd call a Kevin Moore fanboy. To me, OSI and Chroma Key are unlistenable. UNLISTENABLE.

However, I became a fan of Dream Theater in the summer of 1992, and literally listened to nothing but Dream Theater for the better part of the next year and a half.

I saw them 4 times on the I&W tour, and was trading bootlegs at the time. So I not only had I&W, but a number of concert recordings as well. In the Album Listening Thread, I posted that I will be going through the DT Live Eras over the next few months. I dedicated this week to the I&W Era.

Images And Words is the greatest album these ears have ever heard. It's pretty much perfect. And live, the band was the greatest live band I'd ever seen. Kevin Moore easily meshed with the vituostic talents of JP, MP, and JM...and JLB for that matter. Those early unisons with JP set the stage for the JR Era.

But there was an..elegance that he brought to Dream Theater. DT has made so much great music over their career, but I really don't think they ever achieved the magic that was created in '92-'93.

It's funny. I rank Awake very highly, but when it came out, it was kind of a head scratcher. I still remember my very first listen. It wasn't until I got to the last song, Space Dye Vest, that I thought matched the...again..the elegance of I&W. I know KevMo played some nice shadings and colors to Awake, but he is really AWOL on that album IMO.


One bootleg, I think it's Osaka, is very keyboard heavy, so you can almost listen to KevMo in isolation. I think Only A Matter Of Time was his strongest performance.


Anyway, I just wanted to give a shout out to Kevin Moore, as he really stood out to me over the last week while listening to a number of DT live shows.

I don't have the same experience of seeing the band that you do, but everything else is pretty close.  I rate I&W VERY highly; it's not number one, but certainly top five or so.     Excellent record then, and has held up over time very well.   I always sort of equated Kevin Moore with Mark Kelly (Marillion) for some reason.  Neither one was Keith Emerson/Rick Wakeman, but they were a sort of glue for the bands they were in, allowing the guitar player/drummer to do their thing.   

I'm also a big fan of Kevin's lyrics.  I think he brought a sensibility and approach that the band never consistently recaptured (even if they had their moments).  I regret not seeing the band back in that time period; I lived in southern Connecticut at the time; they played within 30 minutes of my house probably 25 times with Kevin and I didn't see any of them for one reason or another. 

Offline pg1067

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #262 on: January 14, 2022, 09:52:34 AM »
It's funny. I rank Awake very highly, but when it came out, it was kind of a head scratcher.

My initial reaction was, "where the heck are the keyboards?"  They're there, of course, but it seemed like they were intentionally using patches to make the keys sound like another guitar.  I didn't care for that approach too much because one of the big things about I&W that appealed to me was that they had masterfully integrated keyboards into metal music.  When I first heard Awake, I was not yet aware that KM was no longer in the band (I don't know if I learned about that before seeing or because of the video for Lie).


May be urban legend, but I was always under the impression the band intentionally toned down/kept some of the keyboard parts out of the final mix after Kevin announced he was leaving the band.

Why would they do that?

I'm sure you're familiar with the stories about everyone fighting about making their instruments higher in the mix.  If memory serves me correctly, KM announced his departure at the end of the album's recording sessions, so he wouldn't have been around for mixing.  Thus, while they may not have intentionally lowered the keys, if KM wasn't around to advocate on behalf of his parts, the effect may have been the same.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #263 on: January 14, 2022, 10:01:58 AM »
I remembered reading an old KM interview from the Chroma Key/SFAM era where Kev had some comments about the mix on Awake. I googled it and found a post here in DTF referring to it. The link for the actual interview is dead, but I'm quoting the original post here and highlighting the part where he talks about the mix for Awake and also SDV:

I found this old interview with Kevin Moore from around the time Chroma Key's You Go Now was released: https://www.oocities.org/hume2112/chromakeyint.html To my surprise he seemed pretty comfortable talking about DT:

Quote
2112: I’ve just got three Dream Theater questions now. Is that fine?

KM: Yeah.

2112: Do you still keep in touch with the band?

KM: By email, occasionally. But, we’ve pretty much gone our own way, I’d say. For the most part.

2112: Do you resent the fact that a lot of people still know you from Kevin Moore from Dream Theater, the player on Images and Words and Awake? Or are you happy you still have that legacy attached to your name?

KM: If people don’t know me as Kevin Moore from Dream Theater, people don’t know me. It’s either that or nothing (chuckles). It’s not like Chroma Key is huge. I really don’t have a problem with the Dream Theater thing at all. I mean, I’m happy with the work I did with Dream Theater. We did some interesting stuff.

2112: What was your favorite Dream Theater album to record?

KM: To record?

2112: Or maybe just your favorite Dream Theater album, sound-wise.

KM: I don’t know. I think the best sounding album is Images and Words. I think my sound is better on Awake, even though I hate the mix. The mix is terrible on Awake. But I like the sounds used on Awake better.

2112: Are you glad that Dream Theater recorded “Space Dye Vest”? I read an interview with Mike (Portnoy), and he said that if he had known you were leaving, they wouldn’t have recorded the song. Because it’s really your song, you wrote it. Are you glad you presented it to the band and it ended up on Awake?

KM: Yeah. I’m glad because that song kind of helped indicate the direction I was going to go with Chroma Key. Because that song might fit on a Chroma Key album. So it really gave people a hint, and I’m really just talking about Dream Theater fans, what kind of music I was going to be doing. Once they found out I left, they had that song to refer to.


2112: Have you heard the new one, Scenes From A Memory?

KM: I haven’t. Mike was supposed to send it me, but he hasn’t.
Earlier in the interview he also talked about the SDV lyrics and about practising keyboards when he was in DT.

I wonder what happened after 2000 and made him avoid having anything to do with Dream Theater... Was it MP's negative comments on him or did he simply get bored about being referred to as "ex-DT keyboardist"?
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline abydos

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #264 on: January 14, 2022, 01:27:06 PM »
I really like the way Awake sounds, it's my favourite after FII.

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #265 on: January 14, 2022, 01:37:11 PM »
I really like the way Awake sounds, it's my favourite after FII.

I do to. Awake and FII are definitely my two favorite sounding DT albums. I don't really have an issue with the balance of keyboards in the mix or the sounds Kevin used. In some ways I think they did an even better job incorporating keyboards into the metal sound of Awake than they did on I&W, though I agree the end result was a bit more subtle in the keyboard department.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #266 on: January 14, 2022, 02:23:05 PM »
It's funny. I rank Awake very highly, but when it came out, it was kind of a head scratcher.

My initial reaction was, "where the heck are the keyboards?"  They're there, of course, but it seemed like they were intentionally using patches to make the keys sound like another guitar.  I didn't care for that approach too much because one of the big things about I&W that appealed to me was that they had masterfully integrated keyboards into metal music.  When I first heard Awake, I was not yet aware that KM was no longer in the band (I don't know if I learned about that before seeing or because of the video for Lie).


May be urban legend, but I was always under the impression the band intentionally toned down/kept some of the keyboard parts out of the final mix after Kevin announced he was leaving the band.

Why would they do that?

I'm sure you're familiar with the stories about everyone fighting about making their instruments higher in the mix.  If memory serves me correctly, KM announced his departure at the end of the album's recording sessions, so he wouldn't have been around for mixing.  Thus, while they may not have intentionally lowered the keys, if KM wasn't around to advocate on behalf of his parts, the effect may have been the same.

I didn't know about that until IDontNotDoThings posted those quotes. I'm trying to imagine John Myung arguing about his space in the mix but I just can't see it  :lol
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #267 on: January 15, 2022, 06:21:54 AM »
I'm also a big fan of Kevin's lyrics.  I think he brought a sensibility and approach that the band never consistently recaptured (even if they had their moments).
He did! There's a red thread running through all of his work, something unique to just him, that just works for me. It's funny, I like JP and MP better when they were just trying things out and weren't fully formed lyric writers. They both solidified their approach into something that doesn't quite capture my attention in the same way.

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Offline Trav86

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #268 on: January 15, 2022, 06:54:43 AM »
I'm also a big fan of Kevin's lyrics.  I think he brought a sensibility and approach that the band never consistently recaptured (even if they had their moments).
He did! There's a red thread running through all of his work, something unique to just him, that just works for me. It's funny, I like JP and MP better when they were just trying things out and weren't fully formed lyric writers. They both solidified their approach into something that doesn't quite capture my attention in the same way.

Agree 100%. While KM obviously has a lot less songs in the catalog, I really like all of his lyrics. Even the super wordy early ones (Light Fuse and Get Away, Only a Matter of Time).  I honestly can’t think of anything JP or MP did post-FII, that I like as much as the lyrics FII and back.
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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #269 on: January 15, 2022, 02:22:07 PM »
I'm also a big fan of Kevin's lyrics.  I think he brought a sensibility and approach that the band never consistently recaptured (even if they had their moments).
He did! There's a red thread running through all of his work, something unique to just him, that just works for me. It's funny, I like JP and MP better when they were just trying things out and weren't fully formed lyric writers. They both solidified their approach into something that doesn't quite capture my attention in the same way.

I'm with you 100% on that.  I've sort of thought that many times over the years, musically as well.  It's like their personal experimentation gave them their progressive edge, but once that solidified into a "genre" it tapped itself out a bit.  I love Mike, I follow (most) of his projects and largely enjoy them, but I sort internally cringe when he talks about his "metal" band, his "hard rock" band, his "traditional prog" band, etc.   Even if subconsciously, I can't imagine it doesn't restrict your thinking as to the choices you make.  When you have ONE band that is everything - metal, hard rock, trad prog, modern prog - thrown into the mix, it implies a broader palate.

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #270 on: January 15, 2022, 03:57:57 PM »
I'm also a big fan of Kevin's lyrics.  I think he brought a sensibility and approach that the band never consistently recaptured (even if they had their moments).
He did! There's a red thread running through all of his work, something unique to just him, that just works for me. It's funny, I like JP and MP better when they were just trying things out and weren't fully formed lyric writers. They both solidified their approach into something that doesn't quite capture my attention in the same way.

I can get on board with this, and it's something I've been thinking about this week while listening to the era.


I&W is great because of the music and performances, obviously, but I always found its lyrics fascinating. Songs like Surrounded, Under A Glass Moon, Take The Time...every song really, had some real interesting and thoughtful lyrics. While Moore has Surrounded, PMU, and Wait For Sleep, I find JP's lyrics on UAGM and Metropolis incredible.

So I agree that MP, and especially JP wrote their best lyrics when they were wide eyed and wondrous kids as opposed to relating life experiences.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pg1067

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #271 on: January 18, 2022, 11:24:09 AM »
I didn't know about that until IDontNotDoThings posted those quotes. I'm trying to imagine John Myung arguing about his space in the mix but I just can't see it  :lol

Clearly he's never fought very hard.  :-(
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Herrick

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Re: Kevin Moore thread
« Reply #272 on: January 18, 2022, 11:25:28 AM »
I didn't know about that until IDontNotDoThings posted those quotes. I'm trying to imagine John Myung arguing about his space in the mix but I just can't see it  :lol

Clearly he's never fought very hard.  :-(

Tis a shame.
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!