How much do you think MP's hurt pride was a factor?

[rumborak]

Was just thinking that. Looking back on the interview and his statements, I think he really saw himself as the linchpin of DT's operation. That is, requesting an indefinite hiatus might have looked to him as a no-brainer since the band clearly would have no other choice!
So, the fact that the band tells him "No dude, we're gonna go on" was/is an obvious statement that they did not share the notion of MP's complete indispensability.
I still think that leaving the band over the matter of a requested hiatus is a bit extreme, and I'm wondering whether the hurt pride might have been an element. You know, in the sense of "Well, if you guys think you can go on without me, maybe you *should* go without me!"

Thoughts?

rumborak

[Tick]

Pride comes before a fall.

[glaurung]

Not a very big one.

[wolfking]

Was just thinking that. Looking back on the interview and his statements, I think he really saw himself as the linchpin of DT's operation. That is, requesting an indefinite hiatus might have looked to him as a no-brainer since the band clearly would have no other choice!
So, the fact that the band tells him "No dude, we're gonna go on" was/is an obvious statement that they did not share the notion of MP's complete indispensability.
I still think that leaving the band over the matter of a requested hiatus is a bit extreme, and I'm wondering whether the hurt pride might have been an element. You know, in the sense of "Well, if you guys think you can go on without me, maybe you *should* go without me!"

Thoughts?

rumborak

I totally agree. I'm happy the other four guys said, "no, we're gonna continue with or without you." He really wouldn't have expected that.  He thinks what he says goes, it's been that way for years, it's about time he got knocked down a peg or two.  Sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but I think the last couple of albums he's been over controlling, and the music, while still great, has suffered.  The other four are more than capable of putting out a album at the standard of any of their previous work, wether he thinks so or not.

[rumborak]

As a bit of corroboration, this is the exact notion that MP's "Never Enough" lyrics are about. In them he essentially threatens to quit too for lack of appreciation for his efforts in DT.

rumborak

[TheKillingHand]

To be honest, yes I agree. While I think that MP was right to leave to take a break as he felt it was necessary, I think that he expected the other guys to wait for him, and I think the other guys probably made a decision that they wouldn't allow him to call the shots in this instance and say no, and I don't blame them for doing that. And I don't mean any bad to MP for that...he was in DT since the beginning so naturally he thought that they wouldn't even consider continuing without him, but obviously it's very important to them to keep going either way.

[EPICVIEW]

I'm sure Mikes pride was hurt, but I think after he had made the decision to ask for an extended hiatus..

so Im not sure if it was a factor, or a by product of his decision

[TAC]

To be honest, yes I agree. While I think that MP was right to leave to take a break as he felt it was necessary, I think that he may have expected the other guys to wait for him, and I think the other guys probably made a decision that they wouldn't allow him to call the shots in this instance and say no, and I don't blame them for doing that. And I don't mean any bad to MP for that...he was in DT since the beginning so naturally he thought that they wouldn't even consider continuing without him, but obviously it's very important to them to keep going either way.

This makes sense..and Rumbo..I just think that MP was "DT" tired. The band has a great opportunity after the Maiden tour and A7X tour..so this may be the worst possible timing..but apparently MP just could not go on.

[rumborak]

I'm not questioning the cause of the request. I am certain that Mike was somewhat tired of DT when he uttered his request.
But, he wouldn't have been the first band member to bridge a slump of excitement by "going along", especially when seeing the determination of the fellow band members. JLB apparently went along during SDOIT. I am sure that if you ask any musician in a long-operating band, they will tell you that there had been moments in their career where they had lost the excitement and went along to keep things going.
I'm pretty sure that MP could have gone along too. The fact that instead he went to the extreme measure of quitting the band altogether seems to me there was more going on than just "oh, I wanted a break, they didn't".

rumborak

[emindead]

Yeah, but if his pride would have been hurt that much he would have tried to destroy the band like Waters tried to do. It did took him by surprise that the band said "And we'll carry on the best that we can without you here beside us", but he let them go. He's hurt, but not that much; he still has an open window.

[rumborak]

That's a nonsensical comparison. Waters is a very different personality than MP, and the Pink Floyd split was as ugly as it gets.
Your point is like saying that every time you break up with a girl you will try to kill her.

rumborak

[Dublagent66]

It seems to me that there's a lot more to this situation than we know.  If MP was burned out from his DT duties, then why didn't he talk to the guys about taking on some of those duties?  I'm sure everything could've been worked out if that were the case.  Now, other band members are forced to take on those duties.  Maybe MP is just tired of DT in general.  This whole thing just seems completely bizzare to me and I really can't make sense out anything right now.

[MykeHavoc]

Well, I think its fair to say that Mike is sort of bi-polar in that respect; it's either all or nothing with the guy. There's no half-assing or in-between. He's even stated this in a DVD commentary: he's obsessive with every aspect of his music stuff but completely lazy in every other respect. Maybe relinquishing power was not an option in his mind. It's all or nothing.

[emindead]

That's a nonsensical comparison. Waters is a very different personality than MP, and the Pink Floyd split was as ugly as it gets.
Your point is like saying that every time you break up with a girl you will try to kill her.

rumborak

The point is that his pride was hurt. But not that much. I'm as surprised and thankful as everyone else that things turned out this well. In the music business it normally it doesn't end up as good as this. Although it still is too early to tell.

[j]

I don't think we have enough information to do any substantive speculation.  It's obviously not as simple as it's being presented to us, and there's no way to know how the situation has really transpired so far.

-J

[SnakeEyes]

I suspect pride is a big part of it, rumborak.  And, like I said in another thread concernin the issue of Portnoy leaving, I'm beginning to wonder how much money is being offered to Portnoy to play in Avenged Sevenfold and how much it affected his decision to leave DT.  

Not accusing him.... just wondering.  We'll never know because none of us are Portnoy or Avenged Sevenfold.....

[hefdaddy42]

I believe both Mike and the guy from A7X who both reported that nothing had been offered by A7X beyond the current schedule through December.  They thought he would be returning to DT.  I see no reason to doubt that information.

[glaurung]

I believe both Mike and the guy from A7X who both reported that nothing had been offered by A7X beyond the current schedule through December.  They thought he would be returning to DT.  I see no reason to doubt that information.

This.

Why is it things always have to be more complicated than they seem?

[MetalManiac666]

I think pride was a definite factor.  What I DON'T think was a factor is money.

[SnakeEyes]

Okay, I'm dropping the money thing.  I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts....

[fadetoblackdude7]

Was just thinking that. Looking back on the interview and his statements, I think he really saw himself as the linchpin of DT's operation. That is, requesting an indefinite hiatus might have looked to him as a no-brainer since the band clearly would have no other choice!
So, the fact that the band tells him "No dude, we're gonna go on" was/is an obvious statement that they did not share the notion of MP's complete indispensability.
I still think that leaving the band over the matter of a requested hiatus is a bit extreme, and I'm wondering whether the hurt pride might have been an element. You know, in the sense of "Well, if you guys think you can go on without me, maybe you *should* go without me!"

Thoughts?

rumborak

I totally agree. I'm happy the other four guys said, "no, we're gonna continue with or without you." He really wouldn't have expected that.  He thinks what he says goes, it's been that way for years, it's about time he got knocked down a peg or two.  Sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but I think the last couple of albums he's been over controlling, and the music, while still great, has suffered.  The other four are more than capable of putting out a album at the standard of any of their previous work, wether he thinks so or not.

*In Christopher Walken's voice* YES!

[ThroughHerEyesDude6]

Was just thinking that. Looking back on the interview and his statements, I think he really saw himself as the linchpin of DT's operation. That is, requesting an indefinite hiatus might have looked to him as a no-brainer since the band clearly would have no other choice!
So, the fact that the band tells him "No dude, we're gonna go on" was/is an obvious statement that they did not share the notion of MP's complete indispensability.
I still think that leaving the band over the matter of a requested hiatus is a bit extreme, and I'm wondering whether the hurt pride might have been an element. You know, in the sense of "Well, if you guys think you can go on without me, maybe you *should* go without me!"

Thoughts?

rumborak

I totally agree. I'm happy the other four guys said, "no, we're gonna continue with or without you." He really wouldn't have expected that.  He thinks what he says goes, it's been that way for years, it's about time he got knocked down a peg or two.  Sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but I think the last couple of albums he's been over controlling, and the music, while still great, has suffered.  The other four are more than capable of putting out a album at the standard of any of their previous work, wether he thinks so or not.

*In Christopher Walken's voice* YES!

I concur.

[tri.ad]

I think hurt pride was definitely part of the reason of MP's departure. The only question is how much of an influence it actually was.

[RazielSR]

For me is:

50% tired
50% pride/personality

I mean, he is tired and he thinks (I really think he thinks that way) that DT is what it is thanks to him.
He wants to leave and thinks that the others are gonna feel mentally destroyed or something. And no, he is seeing that the rest wants to continue. And his siter the same...she thinks that the others can go on alone with DT. Ok, we'll see who was the most important here, MP or the whole band.

It is a big mistake to think you are "the one"....a big mistake, just wait and see.

[TAC]

I'm not questioning the cause of the request. I am certain that Mike was somewhat tired of DT when he uttered his request.
But, he wouldn't have been the first band member to bridge a slump of excitement by "going along", especially when seeing the determination of the fellow band members. JLB apparently went along during SDOIT. I am sure that if you ask any musician in a long-operating band, they will tell you that there had been moments in their career where they had lost the excitement and went along to keep things going.
I'm pretty sure that MP could have gone along too. The fact that instead he went to the extreme measure of quitting the band altogether seems to me there was more going on than just "oh, I wanted a break, they didn't".

rumborak

OK..I get you now. MP did make it sound like there were some strained relationships, so what you do say makes sense. But I woudn't try and get too deep into it. Whether it was creatively, or personality wise...

[Tick]

I believe both Mike and the guy from A7X who both reported that nothing had been offered by A7X beyond the current schedule through December.  They thought he would be returning to DT.  I see no reason to doubt that information.

This.

Why is it things always have to be more complicated than they seem?

Because were on the internet.

[ElusivePhantom]

To be honest, I did like Portnoy, but he DOES come across that way. I'm very glad the lads did decide to go on without him.. maybe if/when he comes back, he might not be as arrogant, if that's even the right word. Ultimately though, we know next to nothing about what really went on, and this is all just speculation

[Lowdz]

Well, I think its fair to say that Mike is sort of bi-polar in that respect; it's either all or nothing with the guy. There's no half-assing or in-between. He's even stated this in a DVD commentary: he's obsessive with every aspect of his music stuff but completely lazy in every other respect. Maybe relinquishing power was not an option in his mind. It's all or nothing.

I said something similar on the MP.com forum and got banned for it when all this came out. Couldn't believe it. i went there for support at a time when I was feeling low and got banned.

Hi everyone. First post here but a long time fan (since WDADU in fact).

[ACID_FOX]

Well, I think its fair to say that Mike is sort of bi-polar in that respect; it's either all or nothing with the guy. There's no half-assing or in-between. He's even stated this in a DVD commentary: he's obsessive with every aspect of his music stuff but completely lazy in every other respect. Maybe relinquishing power was not an option in his mind. It's all or nothing.

I said something similar on the MP.com forum and got banned for it when all this came out. Couldn't believe it. i went there for support at a time when I was feeling low and got banned.

Hi everyone. First post here but a long time fan (since WDADU in fact).

Welcome man!

[MykeHavoc]

Well, I think its fair to say that Mike is sort of bi-polar in that respect; it's either all or nothing with the guy. There's no half-assing or in-between. He's even stated this in a DVD commentary: he's obsessive with every aspect of his music stuff but completely lazy in every other respect. Maybe relinquishing power was not an option in his mind. It's all or nothing.

I said something similar on the MP.com forum and got banned for it when all this came out. Couldn't believe it. i went there for support at a time when I was feeling low and got banned.

Hi everyone. First post here but a long time fan (since WDADU in fact).

Wow, sorry to hear it. Pretty lame. I don't find anything I said to be inflammatory. It's not even implying anything negative, really. At least nothing that Mike hasn't already admitted to. I draw a simple conclusion from the information put in front of us.

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

Well, I think its fair to say that Mike is sort of bi-polar in that respect; it's either all or nothing with the guy. There's no half-assing or in-between. He's even stated this in a DVD commentary: he's obsessive with every aspect of his music stuff but completely lazy in every other respect. Maybe relinquishing power was not an option in his mind. It's all or nothing.

I said something similar on the MP.com forum and got banned for it when all this came out. Couldn't believe it. i went there for support at a time when I was feeling low and got banned.

Hi everyone. First post here but a long time fan (since WDADU in fact).

Since WDADU? Oh my. Welcome.

[SnakeEyes]

I don't understand why Portnoy (or, anyone) would think he's the centerpiece of DT.  I'd say, personally, that JP is the centerpiece.  A complete no brainer.  Sorry, but if Petrucci left, DT WOULD be over. 

[rumborak]

Well, I think we got empirical evidence for that one now

rumborak

[SnakeEyes]

yup

[Cool Chris]

We may revisit the issue of pride once Mike feels ready to rejoin DT. If post-MP DT releases a solid, popular album, and has a successful tour, how will JP and the rest of the guys respond to his trying to reconnect/rejoin with them?

Or, alternatively, is Mike's pride going to mean he'll wait for the 4 to approach him? And if they never do... what happens then?