The question Portnoy did not get asked, and needs to be

[Samsara]

DO NOT FORGET THIS POST

Eddie is not asking the BIG question to Portnoy, which is:

"Mike, Dream Theater pays for the other guys' mortgages and lives, so how is it fair to those guys to have this hiatus you want, when they depend on DT for their livelihood? Particularly the guys that don't write the songs and depend on touring for their income?"


THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED.

Portnoy needs to address that.

[ehra]

There's absolutely no point in anyone asking such a ridiculously slanted question when he hasn't shown even a hint of resentment towards the band for continuing without him.

[Samsara]

And ehra said in another thread why would it be asked if there was no animosity. And NO, it is not "ridiculously slanted." What MP is doing is very, very slanted. He's made the band out to be selfish, when it is really the other way around.

WHY? Because it points out that MP wasn't thinking about the interests of his bandmates, just his own. I love MP, but this is very selfish on his part, in my opinion, and Eddie should have asked that. That is a realistic question based on how the band is made up.

[ZBomber]

No, he doesn't need to be asked that, because this is a band. He does not need to stay in the band. Kevin Moore did not need to stay in the band, and neither does MP. Nobody should be forced to create music they cant even relate to.

[ehra]

So simply suggesting a break is such a horrible thing all of a sudden?

How has he made the band out to be selfish? He's flat out said that it's simply a case of different people doing what they want.

[blackngold29]

He kind of answered it: JP has been talking about doing a solo album, JM has Jelly Jam he's working on, JLB just did a new solo project, JR always has 840 things he's working on too.

I know they aren't kabillionaires, but I would think they could afford one year off.

[Samsara]

No, he doesn't need to be asked that, because this is a band. He does not need to stay in the band. Kevin Moore did not need to stay in the band, and neither does MP. Nobody should be forced to create music they cant even relate to.

Please. Stop it. This is a VALID question. Mike Portnoy wanted a break. Not the band. The band wanted to play. Why? Because they wanted to, and because all of them depend on that band for their lives and income. There are realistic, real life reasons. And Portnoy didn't address any of that, and tried to make this whole thing out to be a difference in opinion, which it was, but why isn't MP called out for being selfish and putting other guys' lives and incomes at stake by taking a break at this point in their career, when they are at a high point.

It's a very valid question.

JLB and JM write almost nothing. They likely get almost no publishing. They NEED to be out on the road to bring in money. Having some of them sacrifice their lifestyle because MP needed to have a break, seems a little unfair.

I totally get MP and how he might feel, but if I am in a family of five guys who depend on their family busiiness in order to make a living, I do the unselfish thing, and instead of calling a break, perhaps structuring things so that he can have more "in cycle" breaks instead of just doing nothing. This way his bandmates get what they want, and MP gets more time to himself.

Sorry folks, you can defend MP all you want, but that question is very valid, and I for one would really wish MP would address that, and if he even thought about how his bandmates might suffer financially if they did go on a long hiatus.  They aren't millionaires folks.

[robwebster]

No offence, but I think you might have your lawyer head on.

Seems to me you're looking at it like he was trying to force them to do something they didn't want to. He didn't. He left, instead. This is the compromise. This is him going "Yes, okay. I can see that it's not going to happen." He's done the mature thing.

He pitched his ideal version of events, tried to make it work, realised it was never going to happen, and took the action that would let them continue. You're trying to fight a battle the band have already won. You're preaching to the converted, a bit.

[Sigz]

I get the feeling that other band member's personal finances are not something that one would normally discuss publicly. The rest of the band wanted to continue, their reasons for doing so are kinda irrelevant in my eyes.

[blackngold29]

JLB and JM write almost nothing. They likely get almost no publishing. They NEED to be out on the road to bring in money. Having some of them sacrifice their lifestyle because MP needed to have a break, seems a little unfair.

Both of them have completed (or Jelly Jam has atleast started) other projects within the past month. A break would give them time to tour with those acts instead.

[Adami]

Do you actually think James will make enough money to support himself and his family for 2+ years based on a solo tour?

Hah.

[blackngold29]

Do you actually think James will make enough money to support himself and his family for 2+ years based on a solo tour?

Hah.

Probably not solely on a solo tour. I obviously don't know the guy's financial situation, but he's a talented singer with lots of experience and connections in the industry. He could do a bunch of different stuff if he wanted to.

[ehra]

but why isn't MP called out for being selfish and putting other guys' lives and incomes at stake by taking a break at this point in their career, when they are at a high point.

When the guys who's "lives and incomes" were put at stake haven't even come close to suggesting MP is/was being selfish, or even hint at any hard feelings against him, it should become apparent pretty quick that you, someone who has absolutely no stake in the issue, really have no reason to get all up in arms over it.

[King Postwhore]

To qoute Spock, "The needs of the many, outweight the needs of the few, or one".

While Mike stretches himself out too thin the other bandmates want to concentrate on what's most important to them, which is DT. Whether is for the music or for money or both.

[ZBomber]

No, he doesn't need to be asked that, because this is a band. He does not need to stay in the band. Kevin Moore did not need to stay in the band, and neither does MP. Nobody should be forced to create music they cant even relate to.

Please. Stop it. This is a VALID question. Mike Portnoy wanted a break. Not the band. The band wanted to play. Why? Because they wanted to, and because all of them depend on that band for their lives and income. There are realistic, real life reasons. And Portnoy didn't address any of that, and tried to make this whole thing out to be a difference in opinion, which it was, but why isn't MP called out for being selfish and putting other guys' lives and incomes at stake by taking a break at this point in their career, when they are at a high point.

It's a very valid question.

JLB and JM write almost nothing. They likely get almost no publishing. They NEED to be out on the road to bring in money. Having some of them sacrifice their lifestyle because MP needed to have a break, seems a little unfair.

I totally get MP and how he might feel, but if I am in a family of five guys who depend on their family busiiness in order to make a living, I do the unselfish thing, and instead of calling a break, perhaps structuring things so that he can have more "in cycle" breaks instead of just doing nothing. This way his bandmates get what they want, and MP gets more time to himself.

Sorry folks, you can defend MP all you want, but that question is very valid, and I for one would really wish MP would address that, and if he even thought about how his bandmates might suffer financially if they did go on a long hiatus.  They aren't millionaires folks.

They're going on without him. Mike Portnoy doesn't need to be involved. I don't see what the big deal is. JLB and JMX still have jobs right now....

[Samsara]

The point is, while Mike talked about doing an "indefinite hiatus" at first, and then compromised at a year or a year and a half, to be honest, that's selfish, given the band said "no." It's a band, not Mike Portnoy solo.

Portnoy should have instead, when telling the guys how burnt out he felt, threw out an idea to them of him (MP) taking a reduced role for the next couple of album/touring cycles. Just being a drummer, longer breaks between tour legs (say on the road for six weeks, home for a month or two months, on the road again for six weeks, etc.), allowing him to "just be a drummer" and do that, and leave all the other hats to JP and JR, and the rest of them.

That way, the band, who depend on DT for their livelihoods, could continue the way the BAND wanted to, and the one holdout (MP) could have a reduced role and get some longer breaks so he could have some more time for himself.

MP wears his heart on his sleeve. And I am not in any way saying Mike is a bad guy. FAR from it. But the way he came across is basically a guy who had it in his head that HE wanted something, and since the band wasn't happy with it, he's going away from the band, instead of considering WHY the guys in the band may want to keep going.

I just don't believe MP considered all the other compromise opportunities. I could be wrong, obviously. But he doesn't come across at all as someone willing to really compromise.

Compromising "indefinite" to "a year and a half" is a joke. Come on now. You can't expect four other guys to sit there with their money-making machine on the shelf while Portnoy "finds himself" on the road with A7X and Transatlantic. DT is bigger than Portnoy, and obviously, DT will continue without him. But it DID NOT HAVE TO GO ON WITHOUT HIM, had MP (and perhaps he did, we don't know) suggested some other compromises that really considered the gravity of taking a band off the road for such a long time.

If Portnoy just took a back seat, had tours shortened, and gave himself a bigger free time schedule and not be so involved with the band (and handed the lead off to JP for awhile) all this may have been avoided. Instead, he goes the melodramatic route and leaves the band, which he didn't want to do, but forced himself to when the band didn't do what he wanted.

And the thing that pisses me off the most? At the end of that interview, MP says that he hopes in a few years he'll play with them again and be together again, and said (paraphrase here) "I'll have gotten what I wanted anyway."

BINGO.

I just get frustrated with that crap.

It is what it is, but that last sentence he spoke to Trunk about getting together with DT again spoke volumes to this long time fan.

[King Postwhore]

I think Sam, that the band was also frustrated with that crap and got to the point of splitting up with Mike.  That's the point your making.

[Samsara]

Kings - no, not really. I think frustrated, but not to that extent.

The sad thing here is, with MP throwing out that he basically would expect to play with DT again in the future, and hopes for that, he's really setting up a situation where perhaps it is fans against the band.

Think about this.

Say DT picks up a drummer they love, have great chemistry with in the studio and on the road, and really don't miss a beat. Portnoy calls up in three years and wants back in. What is DT to do at that point? If you get to that point, then DT is stuck, because despite perhaps loving the new chemistry, and not really wanting to change from it, if MP makes that call, they sort of HAVE to welcome back MP regardless, because the fans will clamor for the "reunited lineup."

MP probably didn't do this on purpose, but he basically threw a fit and left the band when he didn't get his way, and now set it up so that when he IS ready to come back, regardless if the band AT THAT POINT (obviously right now they want him back) wants him back or not, they sorta have to, otherwise the fallout would be huge.

Again, probably not done on PURPOSE, but that is exactly what MP set up by saying what he did.

This whole thing is ridiculous, and I can't shake the feeling that MP could have avoided all of this had he been more willing to compromise to a REALISTIC level.

Just my opinion.

[ZBomber]

Kings - no, not really. I think frustrated, but not to that extent.

The sad thing here is, with MP throwing out that he basically would expect to play with DT again in the future, and hopes for that, he's really setting up a situation where perhaps it is fans against the band.

Think about this.

Say DT picks up a drummer they love, have great chemistry with in the studio and on the road, and really don't miss a beat. Portnoy calls up in three years and wants back in. What is DT to do at that point? If you get to that point, then DT is stuck, because despite perhaps loving the new chemistry, and not really wanting to change from it, if MP makes that call, they sort of HAVE to welcome back MP regardless, because the fans will clamor for the "reunited lineup."

MP probably didn't do this on purpose, but he basically threw a fit and left the band when he didn't get his way, and now set it up so that when he IS ready to come back, regardless if the band AT THAT POINT (obviously right now they want him back) wants him back or not, they sorta have to, otherwise the fallout would be huge.

Again, probably not done on PURPOSE, but that is exactly what MP set up by saying what he did.

This whole thing is ridiculous, and I can't shake the feeling that MP could have avoided all of this had he been more willing to compromise to a REALISTIC level.

Just my opinion.

Not defending or supporting Portnoy at all really, but he shouldn't ever have to stay in a band just because. I'd rather him take a break if he doesn't feel up to it. Mike stays and you're pretty much going through the motions and giving your fans mediocre halfassed efforts. I'm excited to see what the guys come out with now that Mike is gone and it will force them to be creative.

If Mike Portnoy wants to take a break for his own personal reasons, the other guys can't stop him, and they didn't try to. They want to continue, he wants a break. Its that simple. I don't see why people are so riled up. Both parties will continue to do music and will likely reunite at some point.

[dethklok09]

you do bring up a good point with the chemistry with a new band member thing. cause either they would have to have 2 drummers, throw out mike (which isnt likely), or throw out the new guy. and not many amazing drummers are going to wanna give up their bands just to be thrown out of dt in the future.

[Perpetual Change]

The first thing I thought about when I heard about this, and I'm sure a lot of fans did as well, was that the other guys in DREAM THEATER  probably said , "Well, he's playing with all these other bands, but when we need to work, he doesn't have time for us, so that's that." But you're saying that really wasn't it.

I don't know... Yeah, maybe they do feel that way...

...They're my friends and they're my brothers and if they really wanna continue, then I can't say no; I don't wanna be an a-hole and do that to them. It's a strange situation, and luckily it ended on good terms and those guys have made it blatantly clear that the door is always open for me. So, I mean, it's a weird thing because I would go back to them in a heartbeat, just not now. I just need a break.

Seems to me like Mike understands.

Anyway... seems pretty obvious that Mike wants to come back later. He's just a little upset that he's going to be missing an album or two, and didn't think he'd have to go that far to get his way.

[hefdaddy42]

If Mike Portnoy wants to take a break for his own personal reasons, the other guys can't stop him, and they didn't try to. They want to continue, he wants a break. Its that simple. I don't see why people are so riled up. Both parties will continue to do music and will likely reunite at some point.

Some people are a little riled up because he didn't go to the band and say "I need a break, I need to sit out the next album/tour."  He said "I need a break, so you all take a break too until I feel like break time is over."

[ariich]

Except that he didn't do that either. He said "I think we should take a break, what do you guys think?". JP is an honest guy, he wouldn't claim that MP treated the situation like a gentleman if he hadn't done.

[King Postwhore]

Except that he didn't do that either. He said "I think we should take a break, what do you guys think?". JP is an honest guy, he wouldn't claim that MP treated the situation like a gentleman if he hadn't done.

You know ariich, if that's the case mabye this has been a buildup of frustration for a long time that, we as fans don't know all the personal details.  It sure seems that way by the recation of the rest of the band.

[Fluffy Lothario]

It seems Mike didn't want to try some half-assed, neither here nor there compromise. Or perhaps the furthest he was willing to go in that direction was the one and a half year option. And he's perfectly entitled to take that position.

Maybe it is selfish, but so what? DT are big boys. Mike isn't their dad. So people aren't allowed to make selfish decisions every now and again?

If everyone made all of their life decisions so that no-one around them even might end up the slightest bit worse off, then the world would be an awful, stagnant place.

[ainamotore]

Except that he didn't do that either. He said "I think we should take a break, what do you guys think?". JP is an honest guy, he wouldn't claim that MP treated the situation like a gentleman if he hadn't done.

You know ariich, if that's the case mabye this has been a buildup of frustration for a long time that, we as fans don't know all the personal details.  It sure seems that way by the recation of the rest of the band.

This.

[MykeHavoc]

Samsara and I appear to be on the same page in one regard - Mike should have stuck it out and taken a reduced role. No need to quit. I had touched upon this in the interview thread. Why should he not stick around for the guys that have been there to support him through all these years? Maybe he felt he didn't owe it to them, but I believe that he did. Him quitting makes it seem like he doesn't have that much faith in them functioning without his full support.
I understand the "if my hearts not into it" logic, but at this point? In this climate? Where musicians make little to no money off of records and even the biggest bands nowadays have to essentially live on the road to earn income? At the peak of DT's popularity? Are you serious? They deserve to move on. I, and hope all of you, fully approve. Mike does have plenty of back-burner stuff to help pay the bills. It truly seems he isn't shaken or afraid to dissolve DT for a few years for this reason. He can't play dumb and assume that the other 4 would agree. And he shouldn't act like he doesn't understand why.

[ZBomber]

I can't think of more than a small handful of people who are upset DT is moving on without Mike. And I don't see why the monetary part of this is bugging anyone. Yes, if they took a break money might have been hard for members who don't have as much royalties like JLB/JMX. But they aren't taking a break. They are still going. They're still gonna be touring, still making an album, and most of us are gonna end up buying it and seeing them live. Trust me. They aren't gonna be hurting at all.

I'm much more interested in the next studio album now that Mike is gone. This really puts them in a make it or break it situation... and when a band is under pressure is often when they put out their best efforts.

[Mebert78]

MP really said he hopes to rejoin the band at some point in a few years?  If that's the case, that's not cool.  Either quit or don't.  I really feel he and the band need to come out with a new announcement in which they decide he's 100% leaving or 100% taking a break and returning in a few years.  The band needs to know that answer in order to proper fill the drummer's role.  If he's "taking a break," then a professional prog-metal fill-in like Mark Zonder would be a good choice.  He's 52 and hires himself out for various drumming projects and easily jumps in and jumps out of projects.  But if it's a permanent departure for MP, then the band can properly choose a suitable replacement.  But he can't do this half-ass quit where he's trying to leave the door open.  That's not fair to the band.  It's gonna lead to major major problems when the time comes.

[Samsara]

MP really said he hopes to rejoin the band at some point in a few years?  If that's the case, that's not cool.  Either quit or don't.  I really feel he and the band need to come out with a new announcement in which they decide he's 100% leaving or 100% taking a break and returning in a few years.  The band needs to know that answer in order to proper fill the drummer's role.  If he's "taking a break," then a professional prog-metal fill-in like Mark Zonder would be a good choice.  He's 52 and hires himself out for various drumming projects and easily jumps in and jumps out of projects.  But if it's a permanent departure for MP, then the band can properly choose a suitable replacement.  But he can't do this half-ass quit where he's trying to leave the door open.  That's not fair to the band.  It's gonna lead to major major problems when the time comes.

BINGO. And I think they should come to an agreement that Portnoy is not "leaving" per se, but just taking his own break while the band continues for awhile, and pursues that route. Interesting that you mentioned Zonder, Mike. Because that was the name that came out from both my wife and myself at the same time when talking about this. He would be a PERFECT choice.

But no, it wasn't cool the way Mike said he hopes to be able to come back at some point. The situation is in-flux, and MP needs another conversation with his bandmates and clarify with them exactly how they want to proceed, at least in this fan's opinion.

Personally, coming to some sort of agreement that this is a break for Portnoy for an extended period, and that the band is continuing on with a guest drummer in his absence would be the better choice. Time will tell. But MP should have handled this better in this fan's opinion.

[Perpetual Change]

In my opinion, after following this drama for like the last 3 days, Mike will be back. In fact, his departure and "sadness" about it really amounts to little more than the shock that he had to take things so far to get his way this time.

It's no secret that Mike controlled most aspects of Dream Theater.　Mike wanted a hiatus. The band, much to his surprise, weren't going to go along with him, at least not about this. He tried to compromise. They delivered their ultimatum to him (perhaps the biggest shock of all for Mike) and he, not able to swallow his pride and accept that he's been "shot down" took his leave, doubtlessly scathed and even a little jolted by having all four members oppose him on something-- which we can only imagine has never happened before--  but not THAT jolted. For Mike, I think, this whole incident amounts to, "damn, so I'm going to have to actually quit the band and then come back to get what I wanted all along-- a break from Dream Theater."

What will be really interesting to see is whether that spot for him is really there in a couple of years like he hopes it will be.

From the whole "break up" perspective, this must be so awkward for the other guys in DT.

Mike: Uh, hey.
DT: Hey.
Mike: I uh... wanna take a break. To see other people for awhile. Indefinitely.
DT: ...oh.
Mike: Are you cool with that?
DT: Um... No, not really.
Mike: Oh. Um. Maybe we could just take a year off from each other then. You know, to see if we really want to be with eachother.
DT: Uh. I know I really want to be with you.
Mike: Oh.
DT: Yeah.
Mike: So I guess we have to break up.
DT: Uh... no?
Mike: Well I want to break up.
DT: Oh... okay then. I'm sorry. Wish it didn't have to be this way.
Mike: Me too. We can still be friends?
DT: Yes.
Mike: I just need time to find myself. I hope that you'll give me another chance one day.
DT: ...Ok.

(2 Days Later)

Mike: *calls DT*
DT: ...Yeah?
Mike: You meant what you said the other day, right, about us being together again if this doesn't work out?
DT: Yeah... let's talk about that later.

[Aniland]

^I like that a lot.

[robwebster]

Like Mike says, though, this isn't a new thing. The man's on record as saying that if he were to start Dream Theater now, at his age, he wouldn't pick JLB as a singer. I don't think prog's his current favourite genre, either. He's frequently said that prog's just the genre of the band that he happened to fall into, and he could just as easily have ended up being a metal drummer or what have you. Maybe it's less of a brief crisis and a necessary break, and more that he's just finding the genre less stimulating than he used to. Once you've been with a band for 25 years, you can't just flick a switch and accept that your heart's not in it, it'd be a hard internal struggle. And probably one where you keep going "you know what, maybe we should put off recording for a bit." Like how KevMo changed, but more of a slow burn. 'Cept instead of doing ambient moody stuff, he's interested in the more hardcore stuff.

I think he could, possibly, come back in two years. I also think that would be unfair on his replacement, and on the band, but I imagine Petrucci, Rudess et al. would be at least a bit torn, as he is a very old friend. But, equally, I think he could just be starting to find Dream Theater less stimulating than he used to.

Not really fair to psychoanalyse someone we know so little about, but there we go. I'd not be entirely surprised if he found that, after enjoying his other projects so much, he stopped feeling the urge to rejoin DT again. It's like when you know you have to make a change, but you try and push it to the back of your mind - but then when you finally go through with it, you feel so much better.

Pure speculation. Probably all bollocks. Ah well. Just a possibility I hadn't seen mentioned, and I think it's a bit interesting.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think he's coming back. 

[KevShmev]

MP really said he hopes to rejoin the band at some point in a few years?  If that's the case, that's not cool.  Either quit or don't.  I really feel he and the band need to come out with a new announcement in which they decide he's 100% leaving or 100% taking a break and returning in a few years.  The band needs to know that answer in order to proper fill the drummer's role.  If he's "taking a break," then a professional prog-metal fill-in like Mark Zonder would be a good choice.  He's 52 and hires himself out for various drumming projects and easily jumps in and jumps out of projects.  But if it's a permanent departure for MP, then the band can properly choose a suitable replacement.  But he can't do this half-ass quit where he's trying to leave the door open.  That's not fair to the band.  It's gonna lead to major major problems when the time comes.

Totally agree.

This whole "I will have gotten what I wanted" crap he said last night is extremely unfair to the band AND to his fans.  It is like he is saying that he can just waltz back into the band whenever he wants, and it is like saying to the fans, "I will be back eventually; it is just a matter of time," which is giving the fans possible false hope for the coming years.  You quit, so that is it.  Don't quit and say, "But I'll probably be back at some point."  Honestly, I think it was mostly lip service, as I still think there was more to it than either side is saying, but I still think that him taking that public stance is unfair.