Mike Portnoy leaves Dream Theater

[Bertielee]

For me, I can only support MP. It's the least I can do after all of these years of giving me the greatest musical ride of my old life.

You know, for me, it's completely the opposite. it's not because he's been givig us so many things that i feel obliged to support him. Yet, I don't pay into the "we pay his bills" at all either, because as Ariich stated, i's not the case. As a fact, I respect his decision, but he simply has to get over it.
B.Lee

[Dublagent66]

Has anybody seen this yet?  Sorry if it has already been posted.  Interesting MP comment at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Y3dV9gu24

[Chino]

Has anybody seen this yet?  Sorry if it has already been posted.  Interesting MP comment at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Y3dV9gu24

so MP wanted to put DT on hold to finish A7X tour?

[MykeHavoc]

Not surprised, but its nice to get some confirmation.

[Bertielee]

It's incredible. He wanted to put his MAIN band on hold to finish the tour with A7X?!?!? It's the world upside down. No wonder the guys answered his request in the negative.

B.Lee

[Dublagent66]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking too.  If MP is upset about the situation, he has nobody to blame but himself.

[orcus116]

Tick, nowhere did he make the rest of the band out to be be "bad guys".

Now you're just straight up selectively ignoring things. Yeah he didn't flat out say it but the way he's worded explanations and reacted to how the fans have felt it's definitely implied and very bluntly.

[Dublagent66]

Must be one of those things where it's not what was said, but how it was said.

[MetalManiac666]

Tick, nowhere did he make the rest of the band out to be be "bad guys".

Now you're just straight up selectively ignoring things. Yeah he didn't flat out say it but the way he's worded explanations and reacted to how the fans have felt it's definitely implied and very bluntly.

Absolutely, not to mention the fact that I think tick worded his posts in a respectful enough manner.

[Tick]

Tick, nowhere did he make the rest of the band out to be be "bad guys".

Now you're just straight up selectively ignoring things. Yeah he didn't flat out say it but the way he's worded explanations and reacted to how the fans have felt it's definitely implied and very bluntly.

Absolutely, not to mention the fact that I think tick worded his posts in a respectful enough manner.

Thank You. I appreciate that. I didn't appreciate ariich telling me to "just chill out already."
Really? Chill out? That was way more disrespectful then anything I wrote in any post.
The purpose of a fan board is to discuss topics pertaining to the band, hopefully in a respectful way. That is the way I try to present the things I say. They are my feelings on the topic. If you can do that respectfully you achieve the purpose of a fan board.
I see no really to be told to chill out. That to me is quite offensive.

[Adami]

I'm sorry you find "chill out" to be so offensive, but I suggest you cool off before this conversation gets any more heated.


We chill?

[Nick]

I have lost quite a bit of respect for MP since this all went down.

I will say that as much as I love Mike, his whining on his site and Facebook about people picking on him for leaving DT is weak. He should know after 20 years as a musician in the public eye that fans will be fans. They pay his bills so he should shut up and let them vent, imho.

Tick, we are not hoping for respectful discussion of DT members, current and former, we demand it as part of the rules and frankly a post like this is not at all respectful to Portnoy and you should not be shocked when someone who is enforcing the rules takes exception to this style of posting. You can either tone down your comments a bit or you can stop posting about this here.

[Adami]

Tone it down? His post was fine. The harshest thing he said is that Portnoy should "shut up" about fans not acting a specific way.

That's against the rules? Really?

[Tick]

I have lost quite a bit of respect for MP since this all went down.

I will say that as much as I love Mike, his whining on his site and Facebook about people picking on him for leaving DT is weak. He should know after 20 years as a musician in the public eye that fans will be fans. They pay his bills so he should shut up and let them vent, imho.

Tick, we are not hoping for respectful discussion of DT members, current and former, we demand it as part of the rules and frankly a post like this is not at all respectful to Portnoy and you should not be shocked when someone who is enforcing the rules takes exception to this style of posting. You can either tone down your comments a bit or you can stop posting about this here.

Well since that is how I feel and its not acceptable I will refrain for speaking about it any further.

and yes Adami, the chill out seemed unnecessary, but now I clearly see that my thoughts of that nature pushed the boundaries of respect to Mike, so I won't say anymore. I don't want to break the rules or be an idiot and I apologize to the powers that be if I did.

[Nick]

Tone it down? His post was fine. The harshest thing he said is that Portnoy should "shut up" about fans not acting a specific way.

That's against the rules? Really?

Really?

Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

Frankly that post is quite belittling and quite disrespectful and a change in tone would go a long way to making it better. We're dealing with an obvious delicate and emotional situation here, use some tact and err on the side of respectful conversation, I don't think that's too much to ask.

[Nick]

I have lost quite a bit of respect for MP since this all went down.

I will say that as much as I love Mike, his whining on his site and Facebook about people picking on him for leaving DT is weak. He should know after 20 years as a musician in the public eye that fans will be fans. They pay his bills so he should shut up and let them vent, imho.

Tick, we are not hoping for respectful discussion of DT members, current and former, we demand it as part of the rules and frankly a post like this is not at all respectful to Portnoy and you should not be shocked when someone who is enforcing the rules takes exception to this style of posting. You can either tone down your comments a bit or you can stop posting about this here.

Well since that is how I feel and its not acceptable I will refrain for speaking about it any further.

and yes Adami, the chill out seemed unnecessary, but now I clearly see that my thoughts of that nature pushed the boundaries of respect to Mike, so I won't say anymore. I don't want to break the rules or be an idiot and I apologize to the powers that be if I did.

I thank you for understanding. Please understand no one is trying to silence you, we simply want the conversation to remain respectful to both Mike and the band.

[Perpetual Change]

I completely, 100 percent agree with tick on this. Twitter is not an outlet for grown men to complain about how angsty they feel, regardless of celebrity status. I'm sorry if ya'll disagree, but I really think MP is just attention seeking with some of this stuff.

Except, to keep it respectful, I'm asking that Portnoy simply "be quiet" rather than "shut up."  

[orcus116]

Frankly that post is quite belittling and quite disrespectful and a change in tone would go a long way to making it better. We're dealing with an obvious delicate and emotional situation here, use some tact and err on the side of respectful conversation, I don't think that's too much to ask.

Well rules is rules but to call "shut up" belittling is a little, I dunno, kindergarten? To spin tick's post in any sort of negative light is a bit unfair considering how restrained it was, IMO.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Tick's comments on this MP saga have been some of the best I have read. They all come across as:

"Here's a guy who genuinely loves DT and MP, but right now, he is calling it like he sees it, and he sees Portnoy handling the situation poorly"

I love you guys, ariich and Nick, but even if tick technically crosses the line by saying MP should "shut up", you gotta recognize there is no harm intended, and anyone who reads his entire posts will recognize that.

Your "chill out" comments, ariich, and your mini-warning, Nick, are unjust and kind of silly, methinks.

[ariich]

Guys, I don't know if you're being deliberately difficult or just not getting it, but we're quite obviously not just talking about the phrase 'shut up'. The whole tone was disrespectful and quite rude about MP. I'm not saying it was intended that way, it's not like I issued a warning or anything, but that's how it came across.

Besides, I thought reading things into other things and making arbitrary assumptions is standard fare for this thread. I fail to see how "chill out x" is anything close to "x is so whiny and should just shut up".

[Perpetual Change]

The whole tone was disrespectful and quite rude about MP.

Honestly-- and I hope you don't take this as me being deliberately difficult, 'cuz I like to think I'm a pretty straight shooter when it comes to disagreements and stuff, even though I'll admit I haven't always been that way-- I didn't get that impression from tick's post at all. Especially judging by posts tick has made recently in other threads. What I see here is exactly what ToX said: tick's a true, diehard DT fan calling it like he sees it, even though it's tough for him to do so and even though it hurts to admit his recent disappointments with Mike. I feel exactly the same way. As someone who's defended Mike's creative control, songs like "Never Enough," and even Mike's vocals on these forums plenty of times, I really am facing the same problem tick is right now. It makes it doubly hard for me, since I think Mike is doing GREAT in A7X and am actually excited about the type of music he's producing with them.

Actually, I'm getting more the feeling that you just don't like all the speculation, mostly based on things you've said in the past (both in this thread and in other places) and because in this case some speculation will naturally lead toward a negative way of viewing the whole situation.

In fact, I think I shall start referring to you as DTF's resident "hater of all speculation."

[?]

https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=147085

AVENGED SEVENFOLD's MIKE PORTNOY Meets THE REV's Family For First Time

As far as I know, Mike hasn't joined A7X full-time and he posted the same thing to his Twitter some time ago already.

[Chino]

I don't think Tick was being out of line there.... Had he said "shut the fuck up" it would have been a whole different argument. I mean, technically hes right. The only way MP will get the trolls to stop, is if he stops himself. He's not going to do that by chilling out, he going to do that by shutting up. I don't understand what wrong with what he said.

[Nihil-Morari]

I don't think Tick was being out of line there.... Had he said "shut the fuck up" itbwould have been a whole different argument. I mean, technically he right. The only way MP will get the trolls to stop, is if he stops himself. He's not going to do that by chilling out, he going to do that by shutting up. I don't understand what wrong with what he said.

Well spoken.

[TAC]

While Tick's comments were , in my opinion, OK, I think Ariich may have been quick to songle out tick, but I applaud him for it as it really speaks to the general tone of this thread. I posted a defense type of post in favor of MP. I had been meaning to do so for about a week. Everyone needs to cut MP a break. If it weren't for him, we wouldn't be here.

I'm all for thoughtful discussion, but when it comes to negativity, just cuz we can doesn't always mean we should.

Ariich may have used tick as the example. But this thread needed to be redirected.

[LTE3]

Lets face reality. Mike played a hand of poker with his mates. He bluffed, and they called him on it. He didn't in his wildest dreams believe this would happen, but guess what... Mike found out the world doesn't revolve around him. He wanted to be bigger then the sum of his parts and when his band objected he was thrown for a loop. Sure he is angry. He has quite an ego and its been turned upside down. He wanted to have his affair and now his future is in his hands. Mike without Dream Theater is something he doesn't want as much as the fans, and that's why he can't handle it. Mike is my favorite Dream Theater member(or was?) but his whining does not work for me. He made his choice, and this is what comes with it. Maybe he can cry on the shoulders of some Avenged fans because Dream Theater fans have a right to say what they will as fans.

I think you make valid points, Mike was totally shocked that they didn't just go along with his break idea, athought I kind of believe it could have been a good idea for the band. As it turns out the break is taking place. it is just a break from Mike. Which I also think could be a good thing. I still beleive in less then two years we will have the whole team back together.

[Tick]

I appreciate those who understand I was not trying to disrespect Mike. I am a huge Mike Portnoy fan and that's why I get upset at the fact I feel he is embarrassing himself in his tweets and such. Am I allowed to say that?
Mike wears his heart on his sleeve. I can relate to that. Right now though knowing full well his is going to get a mixed bag of support and criticism, he should probably take a hiatus from so much social media.

I have not heard him say anything about the people who have given him there total support in all this? Where are the tweets thanking all the fans that have totally had his back? There are probably half that have been positive and supportive.

If those tweets are out there I have not read them? All I keep seeing is his displeasure with the fans that refuse to understand. I cringe every time I read one of them. He needs to, and should understand after all these years, there is nothing he can do about that but take the high road and say nothing. Letting it all blow over will be so much easier if he chooses to remain silent. Every time he voices his displeasure with the disgruntled part of his fan base it creates another firestorm.

I understand people like TAC who will cut him slack at this time. I get it, and I respect it. I just feel different, and that is what I am trying to convey in constructive fashion.
I guess if I had said be quiet instead of shut up, my post would have been better received.

The absolute truth is I am such a huge fan that its silly how much his departure bothers me. I need to get over it. I respect rules and the people here who uphold them. I get fired up and passionate when I discuss things that matter to me. Its like how people get fired up when there favorite sports team loses. In the grand scheme its not life or death but when you have a passion for something you tend to take it more serious then it needs to be taken.

I will try and choose my words more carefully in the future and I hope this post stayed within the boundaries of the rules.

[ariich]

In fact, I think I shall start referring to you as DTF's resident "hater of all speculation."

Yeah. Well, no I don't hate it as such, and sometimes it can be quite fun, but in more controversial cases it can be annoying and ultimately ends up with people basing their opinions on speculation, and other people finding it hard to even distinguish between speculation and reality.

The only way MP will get the trolls to stop, is if he stops himself.

This I agree with, him making comments unfortunately just fuels the trolls. That wasn't the issue that I have with tick or anyone else's posts. And TAC is absolutely right, I didn't mean to single out tick because he isn't a major culprit at all, his just happened to be the most recent post of that kind when I made my remarks. But I can completely appreciate how it probably looked like I was having a go at him specifically, so I apologise for that.

My problem is the fact that Mike has always been like this. He is very open and public about how he is feeling at any given time. If someone doesn't like that about him, fair enough, each to their own, but why would anyone "lose respect" for someone when he is the same way he always is. Why is it ok for us to be open about how we feel about the situation but not him? Why is it ok for the rest of the band to be open about how they feel but not him? Is it because they are optimistic and he is feeling sad, and if so then why should that make a difference?

The silly thing is, Mike himself gets annoyed at people misinterpreting what he says and reading things into his comments that simply aren't there. So when people continue to do it more and more, especially when he's obviously hurting about the situation, then I can't help but feel sorry for the guy.

[Bertielee]

My problem is the fact that Mike has always been like this. He is very open and public about how he is feeling at any given time. If someone doesn't like that about him, fair enough, each to their own, but why would anyone "lose respect" for someone when he is the same way he always is.

This is a valid point. I, for one, began to lose respect not for that particular situation but a while ago because, precisely, I was fed up with his openness and "publicity" (for lack of a better word). It's begun to be too much for my taste and I'm not sad he left since he was the one I liked the least in the band. Hence my negative view of all his twits and comments that come up so often.

B.Lee

[TAC]

BTW, there were more chicks in that youtube clip with Steve Moore backstage than in all the DT clips combined! 

[KevShmev]

The only way MP will get the trolls to stop, is if he stops himself.

This I agree with, him making comments unfortunately just fuels the trolls.

The problem with this attitude is that it is assumes that anyone and everyone who criticizes him and his comments is a troll.  That probably isn't what you mean, but that is how it comes across.

The silly thing is, Mike himself gets annoyed at people misinterpreting what he says and reading things into his comments that simply aren't there. So when people continue to do it more and more, especially when he's obviously hurting about the situation, then I can't help but feel sorry for the guy.

Eh, when he says something like, "Jamming some System Of A Down tonight...great stuff...see, sometimes a hiatus does indeed make the heart grow fonder...just sayin...," that kind of passive-aggressive approach to the situation by him is obviously gonna make some wonder what he means by that.  I think he does that on purpose.  That way, he can make his snarky comments, while hiding behind the, "I didn't say anything direct; some fans are reading into things too much," line.  He is not stupid.  He knows what he is saying.

[Sixtease]

Maybe it's my English, maybe I'm just stupid, but what exactly does he mean by that tweet? Like how does jamming SOAD imply that a hiatus makes the heart grow fonder? Fonder of what?

[ariich]

Everything about that tweet suggests that he is simply defending/justifying his reasoning for what happened. If someone said he was getting a bit defensive, then sure, I'd agree with them somewhat. But to insist that he making a jab at the rest of the band is another thing entirely.

Good point about my wording though, obviously I didn't mean that all criticism = trolling. I was referring to people who go onto his own facebook page and forum to have a go at him.

[orcus116]

But we're not them.

[Bertielee]

But we're not them.

Exactly! I've stopped caring for MP the day he left DT. See, I don't post on his forum anymore and will never go see his facebook.

B.Lee

BTW, I completely agree with you, KevSHmev : he perfectly knows what he's doing and is doing all this on purpose! He's not stupid, but we're not either. And I don't think that's reading too much...