Mike Portnoy leaves Dream Theater

[rumborak]

I really wish Mike would just shoot straight on this one. Mike left because he wanted to. Not because the other guys in DT made him-- because he wanted to.

That comment bugged me a bit too I must say. "DT made me go" is just not true. He was pushing for something that would have put the career of 4 guys on hold. Then putting the blame on those 4 guys for not wanting that is a bit disingenuous.

rumborak

[rumborak]

As for your proposed solution, I'm not so sure that's a good idea either.  When I read it a few minutes ago, I thought "that's probably a good idea."  But then I thought some more about it, and it might actually feel like it has even more of a polarizing effect by limiting all DT-discussion on the forum to one area.  I don't think it's the "easy," painless solution you envisioned.

Well, the other "option" out there is brutal censorship of speech on his forum. With the likely result of many bannings and a good exodus resulting from it.

rumborak

The way I see it is that you've proposed two extremes, so to speak. While I doubt that any of those two are definitely going to happen, a scenario of something in-between shouldn't be ruled out. Time will tell, of course.

Well, mp.com has always been pretty draconian in its measures, whatever they may be.

rumborak

[KevShmev]

Guys, the whole "fucking someone's ex wife" analogy needs to stop, imo. It was really just one of those off-the-wall and poorly worded things Mike says sometimes, and there's really not much validity to it. But, "getting right down to the heart of it," Mike wanting us to think that DT replacing him is "DT fucking some other guy" is exactly what's wrong with his attitude about the whole thing, and exactly what's causing the Us vs. Them attitude.

This *isn't* a divorce. It's a split. In a rock band. And that's it. Mike was unhappy, so he left. The fact that he wants to make the fans think that he "never WANTED to quit" is just a PR stunt; MP is trying to drum up some sympathy from the dramatic spectacle he's created which has, by and large, sided with the rest of the guys in DT, much to his dismay.

I really wish Mike would just shoot straight on this one. Mike left because he wanted to. Not because the other guys in DT made him-- because he wanted to. That's it. There's no divorce, no-one fucking anyone's wife, no drama to be stirred up, no need to feel sympathy for anyone involved, except for DT, who now have to go through the hassle of auditioning new members. Mike wanted to leave, and so he did. The end. It'd be better if Mike would just say that.

*golf clap*

[Neada]

Recently have known about it.
It was like a sharpened knife against glass.

[robwebster]

As for your proposed solution, I'm not so sure that's a good idea either.  When I read it a few minutes ago, I thought "that's probably a good idea."  But then I thought some more about it, and it might actually feel like it has even more of a polarizing effect by limiting all DT-discussion on the forum to one area.  I don't think it's the "easy," painless solution you envisioned.

Well, the other "option" out there is brutal censorship of speech on his forum. With the likely result of many bannings and a good exodus resulting from it.

rumborak

The way I see it is that you've proposed two extremes, so to speak. While I doubt that any of those two are definitely going to happen, a scenario of something in-between shouldn't be ruled out. Time will tell, of course.

Well, mp.com has always been pretty draconian in its measures, whatever they may be.

rumborak

Trying to be diplomatic here, but I've often been surprised by what's been deleted.

It's a nice place - and I'm very glad of that - but it's not for me. Too much. Zero tolerance. Quite often I'll have one tiny thing out of place in a post, and the whole thing disappears. I used a harsh curse, once (the C-word!), which got asterisked, and apparently that activated a notification, and I got an email as my entire post was deleted. In case anyone was offended by four asterisks. I thought that was a bit much, myself.

In fairness, though, it works! I like that it works. People don't tend disobey the rules, 'cause if they do they'll naturally get caught, as rightly they should, and it means that discussions tend to be fairly pleasant! I'm quite blown over by how much work Weymo puts into it. Got a lot of respect for the man. But it's not the kind of environment that I tend to spend too much time in.

I just can't deal with that level of scrutiny. That's just me. Plus, when I post I tend to spend a lot of time making it, so I don't like to run the risk of being wiped. Cool place, but not for me. I like to be able to link to cracked.com, occasionally, or to have a balanced argument about Dream Theater. If someone says something a bit harsh about the band, I'd prefer to challenge them and for a debate to sprawl out of it, than to have the entire thread's worth of (often valid!) discussion deleted. It's a bit heavy-fisted, for me.

[Gorille85]

I think every single post you make ranks from great to excellent.

[robwebster]

I think every one of your posts ranks from great to excellent.

This one doesn't:

ETETJWEIGOEWGKEWL<GEWGOEWON

[hefdaddy42]

Guys, the whole "fucking someone's ex wife" analogy needs to stop, imo. It was really just one of those off-the-wall and poorly worded things Mike says sometimes, and there's really not much validity to it. But, "getting right down to the heart of it," Mike wanting us to think that DT replacing him is "DT fucking some other guy" is exactly what's wrong with his attitude about the whole thing, and exactly what's causing the Us vs. Them attitude.

This *isn't* a divorce. It's a split. In a rock band. And that's it. Mike was unhappy, so he left. The fact that he wants to make the fans think that he "never WANTED to quit" is just a PR stunt; MP is trying to drum up some sympathy from the dramatic spectacle he's created which has, by and large, sided with the rest of the guys in DT, much to his dismay.

I really wish Mike would just shoot straight on this one. Mike left because he wanted to. Not because the other guys in DT made him-- because he wanted to. That's it. There's no divorce, no-one fucking anyone's wife, no drama to be stirred up, no need to feel sympathy for anyone involved, except for DT, who now have to go through the hassle of auditioning new members. Mike wanted to leave, and so he did. The end. It'd be better if Mike would just say that.

I want to disagree with this and argue about it, but I can't.

[Zydar]

I think every one of your posts ranks from great to excellent.

This one doesn't:

ETETJWEIGOEWGKEWL<GEWGOEWON

POTY

[bosk1]

ETETJWEIGOEWGKEWL<GEWGOEWON

This thread has now, by virtue of a single post, become archive-worthy.

[rumborak]

rob, agreed on your post. Same for me, it's too "happy". "Happy" as in Soundgarden's "Black Hole Sun" video kind of way.

rumborak

[Perpetual Change]

I just can't wait to watch the number of people who will decide to go out in a "blaze of glory" in the coming weeks. I mean, there's already at least one member potentially trying to bait Mike into his house to give him the Tuscany treatment.

 

[Gorille85]

I think every one of your posts ranks from great to excellent.

This one doesn't:

ETETJWEIGOEWGKEWL<GEWGOEWON

I think that's a valid point. I also prefer Gewgoewon to that other stuff. It might be the color..


So yeah my point still stands!

[Sixtease]

About JP making DTF the official DT forum... Actually the same idea crossed my mind. I don't see it happening but I for one would feel a lot of satisfaction if it happened. I was a member of DT.net and in accordance with MP.com being Mike's house, I felt like I was on Dream Theater's ground, being with them in a sense. This was taken from us in a manner that I felt unjust and hurtful. Now the community that was blamed of being bashful persevered on its own and is respectful and supportive of the band even without the control from above. Not talking about carrying the weight of running the site independently.

I know that if we were made into an official forum, it would attract the bashful sort who migrated to 5/8 and other places as well as those who need the strong control of Wey over at MP.com. But some sort of endorsement and recognition from the band would really remedy a scar on this community of their loyal fans.

... IMHO

[robwebster]

I don't think there is a scar. I actually think it's a bit stronger for being impartial.

I think, being unofficial, the site's free from the burden of being too deferent. We're friends of the band, and rightly there are bashing rules in place to maintain a degree of good taste if nothing else, but official or unofficial, this is the biggest and most active dedicated DT community on the internet. It's the go-to place for DT fans. And we can debate who the next drummer should be to our heart's content.

Charlie Dominici posts here, sporadically. David Prater did. It's got history. It's definitely the best place to go. But it's the fans' place, and not specifically Dream Theater's, and I think that's quite nice in a way. A mention on the website would be nice, but all in all, I'd call the place relatively scar-free.

Now, who feels like starting some rumours?

[rumborak]

I really really think that having the tag "official" removed from us was one of the best things that happened to this forum.

rumborak

[Gorille85]

I don't think there is a scar. I actually think it's a bit stronger for being impartial.

I think, being unofficial, the site's free from the burden of being too deferent. We're friends of the band, and rightly there are bashing rules in place to maintain a degree of good taste if nothing else, but official or unofficial, this is the biggest and most active dedicated DT community on the internet. It's the go-to place for DT fans. And we can debate who the next drummer should be to our heart's content.

Charlie Dominici posts here, sporadically. David Prater did. It's got history. It's definitely the best place to go. But it's the fans' place, and not specifically Dream Theater's, and I think that's quite nice in a way. A mention on the website would be nice, but all in all, I'd call the place relatively scar-free.

Now, who feels like starting some rumours?

Exactly, I love DTF as it is. Official or not.

[bosk1]

I really really think that having the tag "official" removed from us was one of the best things that happened to this forum.

rumborak

It's probably a bit off topic for this thread, but since you've never really weighed in that I can remember, I'd love whatever inside perspective you could give on the shutdown.  I think I've got a good enough handle on most of the facts, but there are always additional things from different perspectives that shed light.

[rumborak]

I really really think that having the tag "official" removed from us was one of the best things that happened to this forum.

rumborak

It's probably a bit off topic for this thread, but since you've never really weighed in that I can remember, I'd love whatever inside perspective you could give on the shutdown.  I think I've got a good enough handle on most of the facts, but there are always additional things from different perspectives that shed light.

Hmm, to be honest, when it happened to us, I felt like an "outsider" myself really. There was an internal hierarchy of mods (regular mods vs. supermods) and Borlag had no intention to relay the conferrings he had with Wey, Itchy and DT management.
Meaning, when this came about us regular mods were pretty much caught off-guard too, and all we got told was essentially the official line, that the forum reflected badly on the band. We knew that Borlag had very different ideas on how to run the forum, and given that none of us "regular" mods agreed with it (we thought it would just be an mp.com Mark II), Borlag didn't feel it necessary to involve us in any of this. Then one day Itchy just pulled the plug on the forum.
Interestingly, the mods were still able to seen and post on the forum for 2 weeks or so after it was shut down. OdinsCourt and I had a blast posting in that ghost town.

rumborak

[bosk1]

That's right.  I had forgotten about that division. 

[Nick]

Come to think of it another split happened later when certain admins conspired against the will of the moderating staff...

Bosk1... what are you planning?!?

[rumborak]

It was weird. Itchy had left the scene a long time before already, so we were used (and pretty content tbh) to not have any direct dealings with him. Borlag however, developed "issues" over time, and was getting ever more irrational. There were a lot of unwarranted bannings of people, and us regular mods were between a rock and a hard place, on one hand trying to look unified to the posters in the modding policy, on the other hand heavily disagreeing with the bannings. So, in the end Borlag didn't frequent the moding subforum at all anymore, and we often learned about things the moment the other users did.

rumborak

[bosk1]

Come to think of it another split happened later when certain admins conspired against the will of the moderating staff...

Bosk1... what are you planning?!?

  Nothing.  Just talking about history, that's all.  But don't worry.  You're not in my "inner circle," but you're probably like the third or fourth circle out, so chances are, if there was a conspiracy, you'd be in a circle that might be close enough to be "inside."  Maybe quite possibly.

It was weird. Itchy had left the scene a long time before already, so we were used (and pretty content tbh) to not have any direct dealings with him. Borlag however, developed "issues" over time, and was getting ever more irrational. There were a lot of unwarranted bannings of people, and us regular mods were between a rock and a hard place, on one hand trying to look unified to the posters in the modding policy, on the other hand heavily disagreeing with the bannings. So, in the end Borlag didn't frequent the moding subforum at all anymore, and we often learned about things the moment the other users did.

rumborak

Yeah, that's pretty consistent with what I know/remember.  I just sent you a PM with some more details.

[cygnusaz]

It's become obvious that there is more going on here, based on Mike's emotional reactions on his site.

He made a choice, and he has to live with it.

Dream Theater could very well gain a #1 billboard spot next time, and continue growing their fan base and achieving new levels of success. And Mike won't be a part of it.

Most likely, Mike will fade away into obscurity over the next few years while DT continues forward.

The comparisons I've read with Phil Collins are ridiculous. Collins can 'sing', Mike cannot. He is a drummer and that's it.  I can't think of any other drummers who have left the main band and become more successful than that band - unless they joined one already bigger; which is probably inevitable concerning AX7. But that will not be Mike's own success.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Meanwhile the rest of us couldn't find the damned "ghost town"....and were left emailing each other or congregating at other odd spots until the site came back up.

Borlag's final flame out was impressive.

[KevShmev]

Pulling the plug on the forum like that, without any warning at all, was pretty lame.  Given all of the internal crap that was going on, I get why they did it, but they could have at least given some notice instead of just shutting it down just like that.  Oh well, it all worked out in the end.

[bosk1]

It's become obvious that there is more going on here, based on Mike's emotional reactions on his site.

Of course.  I think most people have known that from the get go and continue to ackowledge that that is the case.  

He made a choice, and he has to live with it.

Of course he has to live with it.  But that has nothing to do with whether people, especially on his site, should be tactful and respectful of the way he is feeling.

Most likely, Mike will fade away into obscurity over the next few years while DT continues forward.

The comparisons I've read with Phil Collins are ridiculous. Collins can 'sing', Mike cannot. He is a drummer and that's it.  I can't think of any other drummers who have left the main band and become more successful than that band - unless they joined one already bigger; which is probably inevitable concerning AX7. But that will not be Mike's own success.

I highly doubt he will fade away.  He is a very talented drummer, can sing very well (not as a lead singer like Collins, but how many drummers do lead vocals anyway?  Not many), has a tremendous work ethic once he gets emotionally invested in a project, and is highly sought-after.  I think he will likely be fine as long as he keeps certain parts of his personal life in order.

Borlag's final flame out was impressive.

You don't know the half of it.    I halfway wish I could share with you some of what went on after he left here.

[rumborak]

BTW, the Collins comparison works even less because Phil Collins not only can sing, but also play piano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i61cL8RVvVQ

rumborak

[KevShmev]

I agree that he won't fade away unless it is a conscious choice on his part or if he has some sort of relapse with personal things that have plagued him in the past (I don't think I need to say it).  From what I have gathered, he has a lot of friends in the industry; he'll never have a problem finding a gig.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Borlag's final flame out was impressive.

You don't know the half of it.    I halfway wish I could share with you some of what went on after he left here.
[/quote]


(awaits pm)


Didn't Kiss' drummer have a successful solo career?

[Bertielee]

You don't know the half of it.    I halfway wish I could share with you some of what went on after he left here.

Now, you have my mouth water.

[bosk1]

Didn't Kiss' drummer have a successful solo career?

Yes.

[TAC]

Peter Criss..No
Eric Singer...Yes

[ScioPath]

Most likely, Mike will fade away into obscurity over the next few years while DT continues forward.

The comparisons I've read with Phil Collins are ridiculous. Collins can 'sing', Mike cannot. He is a drummer and that's it.  I can't think of any other drummers who have left the main band and become more successful than that band - unless they joined one already bigger; which is probably inevitable concerning AX7. But that will not be Mike's own success.

I highly doubt he will fade away.  He is a very talented drummer, can sing very well (not as a lead singer like Collins, but how many drummers do lead vocals anyway?  Not many), has a tremendous work ethic once he gets emotionally invested in a project, and is highly sought-after.  I think he will likely be fine as long as he keeps certain parts of his personal life in order.

This. And if he does fade into obscurity, he's always welcome to join my band.

[DarkEternalNight]

Why did he censor fuck? It's not like he doesn't constantly says it.