Mike Portnoy leaves Dream Theater

[Perpetual Change]

I don't get the whole censorship deal over at MP. Is he really that upset that people are imagining Dream Theater move on?

You're right. It doesn't make sense, because the internet fans are one of the biggest reason DT were able to get to the level of popularity they're at now. But you're talking about the guy who had the official DT forum shut-down because Train of Thought was being torn a new asshole.

If it wasn't for people wanting to carry on the site afterward, there wouldn't even be a place of DT fans to post freely.

[Jamesman42]

I know he's been through a lot lately (dad passing, keeping up the DT machine, side projects galore), but some of that is his own fault. Like, I am glad he did more music with TA, but I honestly think he should've stopped right there. Going on to do stuff with even more side projects is going to burn you out.

MP seems to be acting like this because he's been frustrated with too much stuff. It sounds like he needs to take a break from all music. The other DT members have been active away from DT, but nowhere near what MP has done. He could learn some wisdom about rest from those guys. That's why I don't really feel bad for MP at all.

[Bertielee]

What i really think is that MP is "forcing" people to take sides with him above all. And given the number of people that buy into everything he says, I'm beginning to think it's working. Now, i think the guys in DT react very well precisely by not reacting. Yet, I sincerely hope it won't be kind of "the first one to speak is right", because if so, JP and the others are losing a lot of ground. BTW I'm really making a great effort not to bash MP.

B.Lee

[Sixtease]

I'm praying to the Great Bear Beast for JP, the Great Arcane Wizard for JR, the Great Pirate Captain for JLB and the Great Ninja Sensei for JM that the guys handle these provocations and emotional stir.

Praying to the Spirit of Growing Up for MP that he regains his ways of a gentleman.

[yorost]

Most Online Today: 131. Most Online Ever: 827 (2010-09-08, 22:22:36)

We missed it by 14 seconds. 

[The Letter M]

This may be nit-picky, but on his updated home-page...

Mike Portnoy is the current drummer with Avenged Sevenfold and the founder and ex-drummer of Dream Theater as well as various side-projects such as Liquid Tension Experiment, Transatlantic, O.S.I. and tribute bands such as Yellow Matter Custard, Hammer Of The Gods, Amazing Journey and Cygnus & The Sea Monsters.

Take that as you will. Also, he's updated all his graphics. Did that happen over 24 hours ago or did I just miss it? I didn't see anyone mention it in case no one here had been to his site in the last day or so.

-Marc.

[Sixtease]

This may be nit-picky, but on his updated home-page...

Mike Portnoy is the current drummer with Avenged Sevenfold and the founder and ex-drummer of Dream Theater as well as various side-projects such as Liquid Tension Experiment, Transatlantic, O.S.I. and tribute bands such as Yellow Matter Custard, Hammer Of The Gods, Amazing Journey and Cygnus & The Sea Monsters.

Take that as you will. Also, he's updated all his graphics. Did that happen over 24 hours ago or did I just miss it? I didn't see anyone mention it in case no one here had been to his site in the last day or so.

-Marc.

It must have happened pretty recently. I was posting there not 24 hours ago (and had my post deleted :-) as I was posting about the contest for DT's new drummer) and I'm 99% sure the old graphics were still there.

The definite article in "the founder of DT" is pretty loaded IMO.  

[Plasmastrike]

MP: class act.

I'm glad he's shining light on his own personality.

[Perpetual Change]

Mike can be as delusional and baiting to the other guys as he wants. The fact is, he is not THE founding of Dream Theater.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Someone's got to say it. His new page design is 100 times better than the last one 

[The Letter M]

Mike can be as delusional and baiting to the other guys as he wants. The fact is, he is not THE founding of Dream Theater.

Indeed. And if memory serves me correctly, he didn't even FIND the band...they found HIM! Wasn't it JP and JM who roamed the halls of practice rooms one night and found MP in there drumming away and said to each other "we gotta jam with this guy"?

-Marc.

[emindead]

He's sad. It's his place. He expected the people at his place to understand him and think like him. Truth is, that's not how it works. MP is sad because DT wanted to go without him... "and I'll carry on... I'll never forget..."

[emindead]

Mike can be as delusional and baiting to the other guys as he wants. The fact is, he is not THE founding of Dream Theater.

Indeed. And if memory serves me correctly, he didn't even FIND the band...they found HIM! Wasn't it JP and JM who roamed the halls of practice rooms one night and found MP in there drumming away and said to each other "we gotta jam with this guy"?

-Marc.

JP, JM, and MP founded DT. Those three guys, equally.

[The Letter M]

Mike can be as delusional and baiting to the other guys as he wants. The fact is, he is not THE founding of Dream Theater.

Indeed. And if memory serves me correctly, he didn't even FIND the band...they found HIM! Wasn't it JP and JM who roamed the halls of practice rooms one night and found MP in there drumming away and said to each other "we gotta jam with this guy"?

-Marc.

JP, JM, and MP founded DT. Those three guys, equally.

I know, I was being facetious. 

Anyway, perhaps MP should put a band together...him on drums (of course), Mike Rutherford on bass, Tony Banks on keyboards, Paul Gilbert on guitars, and Jon Anderson on vocals...they can call it The Band That Never Was.

-Marc.

[bosk1]

Seriously. This is pretty ridiculous. Maybe MP should just take a break from the internet. I don't understand why he browses his DT forums if everything bugs him so much.

Exactly. If he browses his own forum (or other DT-related message boards), he should be aware of the consequences - ie seeing threads about DT's possible new drummer etc. He should either deal with it or not read it. Expecting the other members to "give it some time until discussions like this" is pretty disrespectful from his side, to be honest. Such a post shows - at least to me - that he is handling the situation very badly, especially compared to the other DT members.

I for one don't see any reason why our "DT's new drummer" thread should be closed.

With all due respect, tr.ad (and most others who have posted in this thread since Mike's latest post), you're completely missing the point.  However anyone might feel about Mike leaving, wheher good, bad, or indifferent, he is simply asking (and in a very respectful tone, IMO) that people on Mike's own personal forum not discuss his replacement for a while.  Frankly, I'm shocked that a fair number of people don't get that it is disrespectful and hurtful to go into someone's house and talk about who is replacing them.  People posting on MP.com really should have the common sense to say to themselves, "Yeah, it's probably not cool to talk about this here.  Let's either not talk about it, or let's go talk about it somewhere other than Mike's forum" (such has here, for example).

[Perpetual Change]

In all fairness, he kind of brought it upon himself. The way he shut down the official DT forums and referred to the Dream Theater "fan" sites always suggested that he just kinda expected DT fans to post at his site, regardless of whether people were especially fond of him or just DT. Now that he's gone, he's got a bunch of people over there who care much more about Dream Theater than they do about "just Mike."

[bosk1]

The way he shut down the official DT forums...  

Yeah, but don't blame that on Mike.  He made the decision, but he did so based on the mishandling of the forum by it's then-current admin and misinformation from a few people.  I'll just leave it at that.

But again, whether he "brought it upon himself" or not is irrelevant to what he wants or doesn't want to happen on his own site, and it boggles the mind that kids nowadays aren't taught enough common courtesy to recognize that fact.

[Aniland]

Now that he's gone, he's got a bunch of people over there who care much more about Dream Theater than they do about "just Mike."

Bam. This.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I can understand how all this replacement drummer talk sucks for Mike.

First, the band he has led for 25 years tells him they are fine continuing without him. They want him, but they don't need him.

Then, after like, two days, Dream Theater fans on the internet are suddenly over the fact he has left, with many claiming they are actually excited about the prospect of a new perspective in the band.

And to put the cherry on the cake, members of his own forum seem to be over it as well.

I don't know. Even if disallowing talk of a new drummer seems kind of ridiculous, I can't really blame him for it.

[Perpetual Change]

But again, whether he "brought it upon himself" or not is irrelevant to what he wants or doesn't want to happen on his own site, and it boggles the mind that kids nowadays aren't taught enough common courtesy to recognize that fact.

I understand him not wanting it on his own site. In fact, I was pretty shocked when I saw people discussion MP's replacement on the VERY FIRST DAY he decided to announce his departure. But, then I remembered that for most people, the MP forum WAS the Dream Theater forum. Most DT news came from MP.com way before it made it to the band's official site-- if it ever made it to the official site.

But really, what bothers me isn't that Mike's stated he doesn't want those discussions going on. What bothers me is the implication-- once again-- that Mike somehow left against his will. Maybe the guys DID tell him that they were making an album in January, with or without his help. But, the fact is, we can only assume that Mike's the one who made the call in the end. If he wanted to stay badly enough, he would have. Maybe it DOES hurt him to have to leave Dream Theater, but I wish he'd stop pretending it was somehow never what he wanted to happen, that the band "forced" him. Because he's implied all of that in his various posts.

[Perpetual Change]

Now that he's gone, he's got a bunch of people over there who care much more about Dream Theater than they do about "just Mike."

Bam. This.

Woah. I suddenly feel all cool-like!

[Seventh Son]

The way he shut down the official DT forums...  

Yeah, but don't blame that on Mike.  He made the decision, but he did so based on the mishandling of the forum by it's then-current admin and misinformation from a few people.  I'll just leave it at that.

But again, whether he "brought it upon himself" or not is irrelevant to what he wants or doesn't want to happen on his own site, and it boggles the mind that kids nowadays aren't taught enough common courtesy to recognize that fact.

I suppose so, but it still concerns me that Mike Portnoy can't seem to get over the repercussions of his decision. He had to think, that surely, that Dream Theater fans would still look forward to more Dream Theater material, and that includes whoever the new drummer is.

Sure, you could talk about the replacement drummer on a different site instead of MP's forum. But to me, that's akin to talking behind someone's back. And personally, I'd rather you tell whatever it is you want to say to my face, instead of just talking behind my back so that my feeling won't be hurt. Even if its in my own house.

[rumborak]

And it's still very hard for me to sit back and watch this kind of discussion...

Right or wrong, no guy going through a divorce wants to watch some new guy immediately move into the home he built with his blood, sweat and tears for 25 years and f*ck his wife....

To extend the analogy, when you get a divorce from your wife, you need to stop hanging out with her friends.

rumborak

[robwebster]

The way he shut down the official DT forums... 

Yeah, but don't blame that on Mike.  He made the decision, but he did so based on the mishandling of the forum by it's then-current admin and misinformation from a few people.  I'll just leave it at that.

But again, whether he "brought it upon himself" or not is irrelevant to what he wants or doesn't want to happen on his own site, and it boggles the mind that kids nowadays aren't taught enough common courtesy to recognize that fact.

I suppose so, but it still concerns me that Mike Portnoy can't seem to get over the repercussions of his decision. He had to think, that surely, that Dream Theater fans would still look forward to more Dream Theater material, and that includes whoever the new drummer is.

Sure, you could talk about the replacement drummer on a different site instead of MP's forum. But to me, that's akin to talking behind someone's back. And personally, I'd rather you tell whatever it is you want to say to my face, instead of just talking behind my back so that my feeling won't be hurt. Even if its in my own house.

...really?

Genuinely, is this where the internet "is?"

Just to reiterate... You're saying that you'd be more offended by your friends waiting till they left your house before talking about your recently-divorced ex-wife; than if they came round your house and started shouting about how they "reckon she'd be fucking FANTASTIC with Gilbert from down the road." "Oh no, I think that Oliver from the sweet shop would be way better. Not only are their personalities about the same, but he'd be just the right shape and size for her minge what she's got all between her legs, dirty cow."

I'm gonna guess you're not a divorcee?

[Seventh Son]

The way he shut down the official DT forums... 

Yeah, but don't blame that on Mike.  He made the decision, but he did so based on the mishandling of the forum by it's then-current admin and misinformation from a few people.  I'll just leave it at that.

But again, whether he "brought it upon himself" or not is irrelevant to what he wants or doesn't want to happen on his own site, and it boggles the mind that kids nowadays aren't taught enough common courtesy to recognize that fact.

I suppose so, but it still concerns me that Mike Portnoy can't seem to get over the repercussions of his decision. He had to think, that surely, that Dream Theater fans would still look forward to more Dream Theater material, and that includes whoever the new drummer is.

Sure, you could talk about the replacement drummer on a different site instead of MP's forum. But to me, that's akin to talking behind someone's back. And personally, I'd rather you tell whatever it is you want to say to my face, instead of just talking behind my back so that my feeling won't be hurt. Even if its in my own house.

...really?

Genuinely, is this where the internet "is?"

Just to reiterate... You're saying that you'd be more offended by your friends waiting till they left your house before talking about your recently-divorced ex-wife; than if they came round your house and started shouting about how they "reckon she'd be fucking FANTASTIC with Gilbert from down the road." "Oh no, I think that Oliver from the sweet shop would be way better. Not only are their personalities about the same, but he'd be just the right shape and size for her minge what she's got all between her legs, dirty cow."

I'm gonna guess you're not a divorcee?

I'd appreciate honesty more than anything. I strongly dislike people talking about things like that behind my back, but then won't say a word to me because they think I'll be hurt.

[rumborak]

What just boggles my mind is that MP didn't foresee this happening. Did he really think that the amorphous blob the DT community is will unanimously declare that they will abstain from discussing the most important question pertaining Dream Theater right now?
mikeportnoy.com wasn't just a Mike Portnoy forum; it was more so a Dream Theater forum, the unofficially official one.
The solution is so mind-boggingly simple for MP:

1. Create a DT subforum on mp.com
2. Stay out of it.

rumborak

[bosk1]

I'd appreciate honesty more than anything. I strongly dislike people talking about things like that behind my back, but then won't say a word to me because they think I'll be hurt.

Honesty and being tactful and respectful of one's feelings are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

What just boggles my mind is that MP didn't foresee this happening.

I'm gonna take a wild guess here and speculate that his mind was probably focused on other things.

[rumborak]

That may be so when he's away from the computer. But seriously, how could he be surprised at the discussions going on on his own forum? Again, to use his analogy, he's walking into a room full of his ex-wife's friends and is surprised and appalled that they're discussing the ex-wife's future.

rumborak

[ZBomber]

Food for thought: Now that MP is no longer part of DT, is it possible that one of the guys (JP?) would make THIS forum the official DT forum?

Just throwing that out there. Likely or not...

[tri.ad]

mikeportnoy.com wasn't just a Mike Portnoy forum; it was more so a Dream Theater forum, the unofficially official one.
The solution is so mind-boggingly simple for MP:

1. Create a DT subforum on mp.com
2. Stay out of it.

rumborak

In many ways, this would be a very good solution for everyone. But I somehow don't see it happening.

[tri.ad]

Sorry for the double post.

Food for thought: Now that MP is no longer part of DT, is it possible that one of the guys (JP?) would make THIS forum the official DT forum?

I don't really think that this is a question that is likely to be brought on DT's table, to be honest. Also, what difference would it make? I'm perfectly fine with this forum being an unofficial DT forum as it is.

[bosk1]

@rumby:

Well, I'm sure it entered his mind.  But that doesn't necessarily mean he really thought through the specifics of what people would be saying and specifically how it would effect him.  I dunno.

As for your proposed solution, I'm not so sure that's a good idea either.  When I read it a few minutes ago, I thought "that's probably a good idea."  But then I thought some more about it, and it might actually feel like it has even more of a polarizing effect by limiting all DT-discussion on the forum to one area.  I don't think it's the "easy," painless solution you envisioned.

[Perpetual Change]

Guys, the whole "fucking someone's ex wife" analogy needs to stop, imo. It was really just one of those off-the-wall and poorly worded things Mike says sometimes, and there's really not much validity to it. But, "getting right down to the heart of it," Mike wanting us to think that DT replacing him is "DT fucking some other guy" is exactly what's wrong with his attitude about the whole thing, and exactly what's causing the Us vs. Them attitude.

This *isn't* a divorce. It's a split. In a rock band. And that's it. Mike was unhappy, so he left. The fact that he wants to make the fans think that he "never WANTED to quit" is just a PR stunt; MP is trying to drum up some sympathy from the dramatic spectacle he's created which has, by and large, sided with the rest of the guys in DT, much to his dismay.

I really wish Mike would just shoot straight on this one. Mike left because he wanted to. Not because the other guys in DT made him-- because he wanted to. That's it. There's no divorce, no-one fucking anyone's wife, no drama to be stirred up, no need to feel sympathy for anyone involved, except for DT, who now have to go through the hassle of auditioning new members. Mike wanted to leave, and so he did. The end. It'd be better if Mike would just say that.

[rumborak]

As for your proposed solution, I'm not so sure that's a good idea either.  When I read it a few minutes ago, I thought "that's probably a good idea."  But then I thought some more about it, and it might actually feel like it has even more of a polarizing effect by limiting all DT-discussion on the forum to one area.  I don't think it's the "easy," painless solution you envisioned.

Well, the other "option" out there is brutal censorship of speech on his forum. With the likely result of many bannings and a good exodus resulting from it.

rumborak

[tri.ad]

As for your proposed solution, I'm not so sure that's a good idea either.  When I read it a few minutes ago, I thought "that's probably a good idea."  But then I thought some more about it, and it might actually feel like it has even more of a polarizing effect by limiting all DT-discussion on the forum to one area.  I don't think it's the "easy," painless solution you envisioned.

Well, the other "option" out there is brutal censorship of speech on his forum. With the likely result of many bannings and a good exodus resulting from it.

rumborak

The way I see it is that you've proposed two extremes, so to speak. While I doubt that any of those two are definitely going to happen, a scenario of something in-between shouldn't be ruled out. Time will tell, of course.