The Rush Thread v. Clockwork Angels

[King Postwhore]

Great interview with Geddy and Billy Corgan.  Talking about the music business today.  The next part is going to be about the loudness war and concept albums.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-geddy-lee-and-billy-corgan-talk-albums-vs-singles-549792

[TL]

At the very least, they could have made it clear at point of sale that the fanpacks wouldn't count toward their chart position. Also, to make it more depressing, this would have been their first #1 in the UK.

[King Postwhore]

I think all this talk about charting is a fan thing.  I think the Rush camp just look at the #'s sold not where they are charted.

[Orbert]

Yeah, it's all just for bragging rights among fans.  I'm sure Rush is mostly interested in whether or not fans like the new album, maybe mildly interested in actual numbers, and not interested at all in whether they outsold some other band or singer who has also released something recently.

[Tick]

Yeah, it's all just for bragging rights among fans.  I'm sure Rush is mostly interested in whether or not fans like the new album, maybe mildly interested in actual numbers, and not interested at all in whether they outsold some other band or singer who has also released something recently.

Well said.

[skydivingninja]

Adele's still near the top of the list.  Dayum.  Cool to see Rush so high as well.

[Priest of Syrinx]

I listened to Clockwork Angels for the first time last evening, and as much as it pains me to say that, I am quite underwhelmed, especially after hearing all the praise here on the forums. Nothing is really bad (though I don't care much BU2B2), but it's also not really memorable. I'll be listening today, after school again - I really want to like this album, actually.

Did anyone initially have the same problems?

I did.  First impression was "Ah yes, the modern Rush sound."  Dense, driving, heavy, and Geddy of course singing in his lower register because that's his voice now.

As I got a few more tracks into it, I noticed that the guys were really wailing, Neil was pounding, Alex was screaming, Geddy was thumping, but somehow nothing really leaped out.  It's the production.  It smushes everything down into a thick paste where everything in it is awesome, but the net result is kinduv blah.

After four listens, I've concluded that like many Rush albums, fantastic playing has been marred by crummy sound quality.  I concluded that when I found myself already looking forward to the live versions of songs, where they'd be able to breathe and really come to life.

Nothing jumps out and grabs you because nothing can.  As much as the guys are firing on all eight, it still feels restrained and held back, which makes no sense.  This may be the sound they're really looking for, but I can't agree with it.

This sums up my thoughts exactly.  I just don't get why our favorite Willowdale Wailers allow this to happen.  I can still enjoy this album, but I would enjoy it even more if there was more space to it.

[ytserush]

Great interview with Geddy and Billy Corgan.  Talking about the music business today.  The next part is going to be about the loudness war and concept albums.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-geddy-lee-and-billy-corgan-talk-albums-vs-singles-549792

Great story.

Read this --was it yesterday?-- definately one of the better ones out there. There have been a lot of pretty good interviews over the last little while.

Orbert:


Nothing jumps out and grabs you because nothing can.  As much as the guys are firing on all eight, it still feels restrained and held back, which makes no sense.  This may be the sound they're really looking for, but I can't agree with it.

Yeah, it's kind of a rough listen that way.

Fortunately, you can almost get lost in it to the point where it doesn't bother you so much. There is quite a bit going on in there. If they use the same live rig setup as they did last time, it's going to sound otherworldly.

[Tick]

I actually need to chill on playing Clockwork Angels before I wear it out. I have not been this into a Rush album in a long time. Can't get the songs out of my brain.

[Orbert]

Orbert:

Nothing jumps out and grabs you because nothing can.  As much as the guys are firing on all eight, it still feels restrained and held back, which makes no sense.  This may be the sound they're really looking for, but I can't agree with it.

Yeah, it's kind of a rough listen that way.

Fortunately, you can almost get lost in it to the point where it doesn't bother you so much. There is quite a bit going on in there. If they use the same live rig setup as they did last time, it's going to sound otherworldly.

Yeah, after a while it doesn't bother me so much.  It's still very intense music, and I actually feel somewhat exhausted just listening to it.  I've wondered if that's because I'm actually straining to hear things through the mix and production, but that's a bit cynical even for me (though it does seem possible).

And this stuff is going to absolutely kill live.

[Bill Carson]

Apart from the chorus to "The Wreckers" there was nothing that stuck in my head on first listen although the music was impressive as always.
However I've listened to it a few times now and its getting better & better with each listen, definitely a grower for me.

[Nekov]

I must say the album is really growing with each listen. I agree on the part that the production could be better since sometimes everything sounds "dirty" but from every other aspect I'm enjoying it more and more.

[The Letter M]

https://www.sporcle.com/games/TheGreatZo/rush_songs

Challenging everyone here to this quiz - My best time is 6 minutes and 18 seconds with all 173 answered correctly.

-Marc.

[DarkEternalNight]

138/173 

[skydivingninja]

146.  Missed a bunch on Presto, T4E, s/t, and Vapor Trails  Every other album was 100%

[nicmos]

I missed 4, if you don't count Feedback.  I don't even own that and it shouldn't count.  1 off s/t, 2 off VT, and for whatever reason couldn't get Twilight Zone off 2112.  I usually skip that one anyway.


I'm also digging the new album.  Surprised no one has mentioned how the intro of the title track sounds a bit like Pink Floyd, One of These Days.  That was a welcome surprise!

There's definitely a ferocity on this album that hasn't been there in a long long time.  To be honest, with the exception of a few tracks here and there on the intervening albums, the aggressiveness is at its highest since 2112 I'd say.

What doesn't work so well though, is the melodies.  I really think that's been lacking since after Counterparts.  The playing is impeccable, the production doesn't bother me really, but compare a great song like the title track here to something like Subdivisions, and you just don't have the same quality of a good melody.  And this is something that playing it live can't fix.  I don't know where those good melodies went.  It's like Geddy is more interested in the harmonies and his overdubs.  It kills me.

Alex's playing and Geddy's playing especially though, are inspired and literally bring a smile to my face.  If only I could be so awesome when I hit (almost) 60 like them.

[FrostbiteZ]

I love the new album. There is not one weak track on the album. Love them all and I wouldnt mind if they played the complete album. My favorite tracks are Clockwork Angels & The Garden

[Vivace]

That's been the biggest issue with all of the Rush albums from Vapor Trails on. The production is so mashed together the dynamics are virtually gone. This was what made albums like Counterparts, Presto, Moving Pictures, and just about everything Counterparts and before gems: the dynamics of the albums. It was wonderful to just hear each of the instruments as their own and not jumbled together like a box of lego pieces. Musically Vapor Trails, Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels are all excellent but sonically they lack, except S&A which actually had a slightly better mix. If all three albums were mixed like Counterparts, I do believe the reception to these albums would be higher than it is currently.

[TAC]

I thought Snakes And Arrows sounded great. It was the songs I thought were the problem.

[jammindude]

155/173

I was able to get everything up through (and including) Power Windows *in order*. 

After that, I only nailed the albums I liked.   The albums I never listen to, I didn't do as well on. 

I was spotty on HYF...but eventually got everything but Turn the Page.
Got all of Presto
I was surprised that I only missed one off Roll the Bones...but I'm repeating my 5 most hated songs so often, that I guess it would make sense that I know the names....still, I forgot Heresy.
Forgot Speed of Love and Leave that Thing Alone from CP.
NAILED TFE INSTANTLY! (awesome album)
Missed Secret Touch, Nocturne and Out of the Cradle from VT
Feedback was what killed me...I *never* listen to that album.  I only remembered Summertime Blues and The Seeker.

I was really disappointed to have missed 4 songs from S&A...I *love* that album, I just havn't listened to it in awhile, and it's not old enough to have been burned into my psyche like the older albums have.

Got ALL of Clockwork Angels except for The Wreckers (which really bummed me out because that's one of my favorites)

[dbrooks22]

Can't get enough of the transition drum fill at 3:43 in The Wreckers

[dbrooks22]

For those who have been dismayed by the production on CA, Geddy talks a bit about the mastering in this interview:


https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/geddy-lee-and-billy-corgan-on-concept-albums-jamming-singing-and-more-550329/

[Nick]

It's nice to see that they know of the problem with hot mastering, but I just wish they were more proactive in fighting against it. Basically saying we compromise and don't let it get TOO bad isn't good enough when it comes to Rush as far as I'm concerned.

[Implode]

I don't understand why they need to be loud when you can just turn up the volume yourself. And most music player programs have replaygain or sound check to adjust the volume to make tracks the same volume anyway. Why ruin the sound?

[Priest of Syrinx]

For those who have been dismayed by the production on CA, Geddy talks a bit about the mastering in this interview:


https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/geddy-lee-and-billy-corgan-on-concept-albums-jamming-singing-and-more-550329/

Who is Joe Bosso, and did he even listen to CA?  He said, "Both of your albums have great dynamic range..."  Everyone who has ears disagrees.

And, I agree with what Nick and Implode said.

[KevShmev]

It really is baffling that they are so aware of the loudness dynamic, yet they still allowed it to be a part of Clockwork Angels.  It's almost like they said, "It's the way things are now with most bands, so we just went along with it."  It's disappointing.  Again, the album doesn't sound bad by any means, but it could have sounded better.  And it should have.

[Priest of Syrinx]

It really is baffling that they are so aware of the loudness dynamic, yet they still allowed it to be a part of Clockwork Angels.  It's almost like they said, "It's the way things are now with most bands, so we just went along with it."  It's disappointing.  Again, the album doesn't sound bad by any means, but it could have sounded better.  And it should have.

I wonder if Rush sees themselves as primarily a touring band, and they figure they won't obsess much over the album's sound quality because they know that when they play live, they'll nail it.

[Orbert]

Something like that.  I was thinking that they might not have the most objective view of their sound.  They write and rehearse the songs and of course it all sounds "live" because they're playing it.  Then when they listen to the master tapes, everything sounds all smooth and produced.  In that sense, it sounds really good to their ears.  To us, it sounds squashed, robbed of its dynamics, but to them, it just sounds like how a studio recording should sound, compared to how it sounds live.

[Implode]

Good point. It still stinks though. The more I listen to it, the more it puts me off. I just feel like I can't really hear anything. :/

[KevShmev]

It really is frustrating.  I listened to a bit of it on the way home a while ago, and some songs definitely suffer more than others.  And that first big chord Alex plays in the title track (around the 0:32 mark) is enough to make your eyes bleed, regardless of volume.  Even having the volume down low, it is still hard on the ears. 

[TL]

It is a bit irritating that they're clearly aware of the mastering issues with the album, and have apparently 'compromised' on it. Especially after they were so aware of the problems with the sound quality on Vapor Trails. They're Rush. If any band has a say in how their albums are mastered these days, it's them.

Clockwork Angels is such a great album, and it's baffling that they wouldn't want the best possible dynamics on it.

[KevShmev]

It really is frustrating.  I listened to a bit of it on the way home a while ago, and some songs definitely suffer more than others.  And that first big chord Alex plays in the title track (around the 0:32 mark) is enough to make your eyes bleed, regardless of volume.  Even having the volume down low, it is still hard on the ears.

To amend this slightly, I should have pointed out that this mostly applies when I listen to the CD in the car.  While still not perfect, the CD sounds more than good enough on my home stereo and my computer speakers, but not in the car.  Maybe my car speakers can't handle those bass pedals, and the result is too much distortion, but some of the songs are simply difficult listens on my car stereo.

[dbrooks22]

It really is frustrating.  I listened to a bit of it on the way home a while ago, and some songs definitely suffer more than others.  And that first big chord Alex plays in the title track (around the 0:32 mark) is enough to make your eyes bleed, regardless of volume.  Even having the volume down low, it is still hard on the ears.

To amend this slightly, I should have pointed out that this mostly applies when I listen to the CD in the car.  While still not perfect, the CD sounds more than good enough on my home stereo and my computer speakers, but not in the car.  Maybe my car speakers can't handle those bass pedals, and the result is too much distortion, but some of the songs are simply difficult listens on my car stereo.

See, now i would have thought that the Naim stereo in your Bentley would handle the sound very well...

[KevShmev]

Actually, I traded that in for an El Camino.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Why does Alex ruin the bass groove in Seven Cities with that feedback solo?