Who cares about the children?

[El Barto]

I'd really like to make this a discussion, so I'll try to avoid the traditional El Barto rant.

I and others have pointed out in two other threads that children are overrated and overvalued.  I don't get it.  The parental instinct is obvious, so I can understand people's blind devotion to their own kids.  But there's an overwhelming tendency towards this in society in general.  I neither like nor dislike all kids.  Like all other members of the human race, some are cool and others should just crawl off and die.  To me, all people start off on the same level, and being 5 years old doesn't give you an advantage. 

What is it that makes one of these people any better than the other?



I think squirrels are cute, but I don't think any higher of them than I do the rat that they're related to.  What makes kids so special?

[bosk1]

[Ronnie Dio]I doooooooooooooooooo![/Ronnie Dio]

*Vivian Campbell riff*

cue Dave Meniketti, Don Dokken, Rob Halford, etc....




/thread

[73109]

I think it is the innocense. They are unmolded flesh so people temd to like them more. Me, I agree with you...

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I care about Mrs. Cozmo's kid and my brother's kids.  That's pretty much it.  Children are terrorists, plain and simple.  Their job is to break you, break your spirit, and break your wallet.  They know it, you know it, and everybody knows it.  They'll knife you in the back (mostly figuratively) at the first opportunity, if they think it will be beneficial to them in some way.

I think it's because they're "helpless" and "cute" that they get a free pass where others don't.  Now when they're trained properly, cool things like this happen:  Link.  Most of the time it's shit, sleep, make lots of noise, and have the world wait on me hand and foot.  So in a lot of ways children are pretty much like cats, except for the fact that they eventually become useful and have the potential to grow out of the mindset that they are the center of the universe.

[King Postwhore]

Simply, children are defensless.  This is one example.  It's not mean to be the holy grail of why but just a small example.

My nephew was told a billion times to not leave out side when crossing a street or in a parking lot. Yet he blindly ran in a grocery parking lot and got clipped by a car, with his mother, my wife and myself screaming. Now at the age of 21, he knows better.  Children are not aware of their surroundings and need a perents protection


And yes to cozmo, they are energy and life hijackers.

[El Barto]

Me, I've never considered helplessness to be a redeeming quality.  Stephen Hawking is as helpless as it gets, and I certainly don't fawn over his ugly ass.  And to be perfectly honest, when he dies, I'll view it as a much greater tragedy than the death of some random, unnamed kid that happens that day. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

The supposed theory is that "If you had kids, you would understand."

Umm, no.  No I would not.  I would still think that kids should be on every terrorist watchlist in the country.  My lack of patience and desire to give a shit would be no less.

I get what you're saying and you're right.  Helplessness isn't very attractive.  How cute is it when your child grows up to be a teenager and sits around wanting you to get this or that for them, when they're clearly capable.  Not so cute anymore.  "Get it your damned self."

[Zook]

WHY CAN'T MY 3 YEAR OLD BE SMART LIKE DAKOTA FANNING GOD DAMNIT?! FUCKING 3 SECOND GOLDFISH MEMORY!!!

[Adami]

One of the issues is that there's a tendency to believe that all life is sacred and that all children, no matter what deserve to live.

[icysk8r]

See sig.
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V

[XJDenton]

Children are by and large a blank canvas, and thus any actions (or lack thereof) you perform that have an effect on them will likely shape their future personality and attitude. Plus, on a more pragmatic point, they will be the ones funding your pensions and social security, so you probably want them better off.

[El Barto]

Children are by and large a blank canvas, and thus any actions (or lack thereof) you perform that have an effect on them will likely shape their future personality and attitude. Plus, on a more pragmatic point, they will be the ones funding your pensions and social security, so you probably want them better off.

And rolling my burritos.  I can certainly appreciate the pragmatic side, but that doesn't address the irrational doting that the majority demonstrates towards random, generic kiddos.  Nor does it really matter since there will always be more to come along.  There will no doubt be plenty of people to fund my pension.  Plenty of others who will embezzle from it.  And yet even more who will dance topless to entertain me during those lecherous golden years that beckon me. 

As for the blank canvass, look around you.  Some will turn out to be alright, and many others will be real assholes.  Of course, most will be average.  A few great ones and a few dipshits thrown in as well.  It's all good and well to believe that every cute wittle kiddo you come across might be the next Albert Switzer, but he is of course just as [un]likely to be the next Albert Fish. 

As I've thought about this, (it's been a slow day back at work), I'm starting to think that there's just something in our wiring that leads to this weird love for children.  There really is no rational reason that I can think of why people place such overwhelming value on kids in general.

[LCArenas]

Children are by and large a blank canvas, and thus any actions (or lack thereof) you perform that have an effect on them will likely shape their future personality and attitude. Plus, on a more pragmatic point, they will be the ones funding your pensions and social security, so you probably want them better off.

This.

[ddtonfire]

Buffalo sure do when they form a circle around their young to protect them from predators.

[Adami]

Buffalo sure do when they form a circle around their young to protect them from predators.

Yes, when other animals are trying to kill and eat them. Sliiiightly different.

[orcus116]

Is this also geared towards the amount of censorship entertainment/media, even stuff made specifically for adults, gets in the name of "protecting the children" or would that be a whole other topic?

[Adami]

Is this also geared towards the amount of censorship entertainment/media, even stuff made specifically for adults, gets in the name of "protecting the children" or would that be a whole other topic?

I hope it's the same, because that stuff is crap too. Like any child that gets their tv censored grows up to be a virgin who doesn't smoke, drink, curse or do heroin.


THEY ALL DO!

[King Postwhore]

So by the sound of it everybody must wants to thin the heard.  Guys, children have no sense of right and wrong do's and dont's.  All the little idiosyncrasy's a child has to learn. As they get into the teenage years, they form their own opinions and you try to give them a little more freedom and guidence to mold them on what is right and wrong.  It's not science and it's not a law on how to do it.  Your values you can give to your child and others choose differently.  I don't see the big deal.

I would like to know how this dotting on children has affected all of you?

I'll remind you all that my wife and I couldn't bear children.

[Adami]

But I don't see the point in protecting the children from the real world, when they end up embracing it anyway.

[King Postwhore]

You don't protect them from everything.  Kids have to get in fights to learn to protect themselves.  I'm not saying push them to fight but when the time. Others like how to cross the street, yes!  Until they get it right.  Then their on their own.  You can never protect everything.  Hell if my mom found out all the things I did, I would have been stuck in the house till I was 18.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I would never have the patience to raise my own child.  Period.  Anyone can tell me that I would when the time came, but I KNOW MYSELF.  It would never happen.  I think yes, to some degree, children have little sense of right and wrong, but they learn very quickly what they should and should not do.  Why do kids cry?  They know it will annoy you into coming and paying attention to them.  That's not being mean, it's just fact.  Children are eleventeen brazilion times more aware of things than anybody gives them credit for.  They quietly observe the dynamics of what goes on around them and they pick up on how to manipulate adults.  Problem is, most of the time, the adults never even realize it, until bad habits have become solidified as part of the child's way of dealing with things.

EDIT:  Yes, I know they cry for plenty of legitimate reasons also.

[icysk8r]

So by the sound of it everybody must wants to thin the heard.  Guys, children have no sense of right and wrong do's and dont's.  All the little idiosyncrasy's a child has to learn. As they get into the teenage years, they form their own opinions and you try to give them a little more freedom and guidence to mold them on what is right and wrong.  It's not science and it's not a law on how to do it.  Your values you can give to your child and others choose differently.  I don't see the big deal.

I would like to know how this dotting on children has affected all of you?

I'll remind you all that my wife and I couldn't bear children.

Yeah, but why don't the parents raise their children instead of the government do it.  After all, it's their JOB as PARENTS to teach their kid right from wrong.  Why don't they worry about doing that instead of bugging the government to do it for them?

[King Postwhore]

So by the sound of it everybody must wants to thin the heard.  Guys, children have no sense of right and wrong do's and dont's.  All the little idiosyncrasy's a child has to learn. As they get into the teenage years, they form their own opinions and you try to give them a little more freedom and guidence to mold them on what is right and wrong.  It's not science and it's not a law on how to do it.  Your values you can give to your child and others choose differently.  I don't see the big deal.

I would like to know how this dotting on children has affected all of you?

I'll remind you all that my wife and I couldn't bear children.

Yeah, but why don't the parents raise their children instead of the government do it.  After all, it's their JOB as PARENTS to teach their kid right from wrong.  Why don't they worry about doing that instead of bugging the government to do it for them?

Examples of government interference/

[Adami]

I think he means people like you wanting stricter and stricter laws protecting children.



And by the way kingsypoo, my post was more about cencorship. TV shows aren't allowed foul language, nudity, or anything like that. Oddly enough almost every single child grows up to curse and have sex way earlier than their parents intended them to.

[King Postwhore]

I think he means people like you wanting stricter and stricter laws protecting children.



And by the way kingsypoo, my post was more about cencorship. TV shows aren't allowed foul language, nudity, or anything like that. Oddly enough almost every single child grows up to curse and have sex way earlier than their parents intended them to.

I've never had a problem with that.  Let the parents decide.  I know that the whole nipple gate has changed a lot of things and thats why were stuck with old bands playing halftime.  

Nobody wants to see Keith Richard's nipples anyway.
You've got to admit, there a better places to watch gyrating(sp?) than a halftime show at a football game.  I'd rather see a little more skin on the interwebs.

[Adami]

The hell are you talking about? Football? You seem to be the only person linking children to balls.




Aside from Icy that is.

[King Postwhore]

The hell are you talking about? Football? You seem to be the only person linking children to balls.




Aside from Icy that is.

How am I supposed tp respond to perfection like this?!  I can't defend myself!   Good Night!

[icysk8r]

So by the sound of it everybody must wants to thin the heard.  Guys, children have no sense of right and wrong do's and dont's.  All the little idiosyncrasy's a child has to learn. As they get into the teenage years, they form their own opinions and you try to give them a little more freedom and guidence to mold them on what is right and wrong.  It's not science and it's not a law on how to do it.  Your values you can give to your child and others choose differently.  I don't see the big deal.

I would like to know how this dotting on children has affected all of you?

I'll remind you all that my wife and I couldn't bear children.

Yeah, but why don't the parents raise their children instead of the government do it.  After all, it's their JOB as PARENTS to teach their kid right from wrong.  Why don't they worry about doing that instead of bugging the government to do it for them?

Examples of government interference/

PAP proposing the government put firewalls on all public computers to protect their childrens' innocent eyes from pornography.  "Sex should be learned at home, not online"

That's one of many examples of parents wanting the government to raise their children.

[El Barto]

Is this also geared towards the amount of censorship entertainment/media, even stuff made specifically for adults, gets in the name of "protecting the children" or would that be a whole other topic?

It's not geared towards any specific example at all.  It's about the broad-reaching, generalized overvaluing of children.  Society as a whole tends to put children up on a pedestal whereas I and some others don't see them as any more or less important than anybody else.  I'm puzzled why. 

Why is some little kid dieing of Leukemia any more tragic than a 94 year old dieing of some other fucked up cancer?  While the kid has potential (both good and bad), the old fart actually has experience and history.  I'm more bummed by the death of an old guy who faught at Anzio than I am a kid who hasn't done anything at all yet. 

[orcus116]

Is this also geared towards the amount of censorship entertainment/media, even stuff made specifically for adults, gets in the name of "protecting the children" or would that be a whole other topic?

It's not geared towards any specific example at all.  It's about the broad-reaching, generalized overvaluing of children.  Society as a whole tends to put children up on a pedestal whereas I and some others don't see them as any more or less important than anybody else.  I'm puzzled why. 

I was watching a documentary on the MPAA and a lot of their views astound me. Naturally since they rate based solely around children and since America is sex deprived for some reason some of the ratings they gave movies were so over the top it was hysterical. On the list of the some of the things they rated NC-17 (because it'll ruin children's minds) was a very quick shot of a woman's pubic hair as well as implied masturbation. Even a shot of a woman's face just having an orgasm for too long without showing anything was almost an instant hard R or NC-17. The thing that is really annoying about that is that 99% of a movie made for adults could be fantastic but those one or two scenes that are clearly only adult oriented might give it that NC-17 rating which essentially means the movie will never get released by a major studio. All that is done in the name of protecting children who shouldn't even be watching those movies and it's fucked up.

[j]

I agree with the OP, there are very few kids I like, and if anything, they're LESS important than the rest of us.  They're annoying and contribute nothing, and throw one or two shitty parents into the mix (in 90%+ of cases) and it's a recipe for disaster.

But they are people and they are helpless, which I suppose warrants them some level of protection from those capable of giving it.

-J

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

Well so what can we do? Do we like start giving euthanasia to those kids with inferior IQ or physical qualities? I don't mind that, but the society just won't accept it.

Well I'd like to hear some more from the women of this forum. I'm sure they have different views on this since most of the time, mothers are more protecting of their children (there aren't any mothers here though, afaik).

As for my own, I'm pretty much neutral. I'm on El Barto's side, actually. They may shape our future, but it should be more like they'll shape THEIR future. Just like among ourselves, there are people who are better off non-existent, I think it's the same thing among the children. There are children who are better off non-existent, and there are children who are clearly assets.

[wolfking]

[eric42434224]

Anyone that cant see the importance of children isnt thinking.
Anyone that doesnt feel love and affection towards children, even in the most minute sense, isnt feeling.
Anyone who feels that children are of no importance, or dont contribute anything to society, needs to buy a mirror, and evaluate honestly what they are contributing.....and I will be willing to bet that many see a child looking back in that miror.
Seriously, this is one of the most immature threads I have seen, and smacks of the typical adolescent views of children..
 
EDIT:  I too get annoyed by children...even my own.  But I also realize that most unacceptable behavoir by kids can be mostly attributed to the parents.  I also realize, that even after all the annoying things, that children are one of the most precious things that are in this world.

[King Postwhore]

So by the sound of it everybody must wants to thin the heard.  Guys, children have no sense of right and wrong do's and dont's.  All the little idiosyncrasy's a child has to learn. As they get into the teenage years, they form their own opinions and you try to give them a little more freedom and guidence to mold them on what is right and wrong.  It's not science and it's not a law on how to do it.  Your values you can give to your child and others choose differently.  I don't see the big deal.

I would like to know how this dotting on children has affected all of you?

I'll remind you all that my wife and I couldn't bear children.

Yeah, but why don't the parents raise their children instead of the government do it.  After all, it's their JOB as PARENTS to teach their kid right from wrong.  Why don't they worry about doing that instead of bugging the government to do it for them?

Examples ?of government interference/

PAP proposing the government put firewalls on all public computers to protect their childrens' innocent eyes from pornography.  "Sex should be learned at home, not online"

That's one of many examples of parents wanting the government to raise their children.

Why? I have no problem getting porn.  The government hadn't stoped me yet?  I don't see the point.  If I want porn it's a click away.