Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[Gorille85]

Eh. It's not the end of the world but I'll be missed I guess.

[Nel_Annette]

Giving RS1 a spin before hopping into RS2. Only listened to it once when it came out. Trying to go in with a more, er, optimistic attitude this time.

[ariich]

Eh. It's not the end of the world but I'll be missed I guess.

This. It's sad news, but understandable. PoS aren't huge but they're big enough to do touring and all sorts now, and most of the band clearly weren't really into that, so it makes sense that they'll do smaller scale projects that allow them time with their families.

[shadowfex]

Eh. It's not the end of the world but I'll be missed I guess.

Johan?

[Gorille85]

 

[Liberation]

Though now I'm even more sad that yesterday (21st October) was the date of both PoS and Steven Wilson playing live near me, and I had to choose one or the other...

[obscure]

I just heard 

[faemir]

On a more positive note,

Flame to the Moth is an incredible song, possibly even a top 5 PoS song.

[Zantera]

On a more positive note,

Flame to the Moth is an incredible song, possibly even a top 5 PoS song.

It's my favorite from Scarsick, good song.
Too bad about the rest of the album. (apart from a few good ones)

[faemir]

Scarsick is my second favourite PoS album, I guess my tastes just differ from the majority of PoS fans. Or the majority on here anyway. The rapping? love it. Political stuff? It works. Disco? HELL YES.

[Zantera]

I don't think Scarsick is AS bad as some people make it sound, but it does very little for me compared to their other albums.
Entropia, The Perfect Element, BE.. some good stuff right there.

[faemir]

I'm really really interested in what they do next - with the 70s out of Daniel's system, will he make stuff that pleases the old fans? That statement a few pages back with him feeling the new material of those songs from RS2 would imo be that, and I'd love it.

[Liberation]

I'm pretty open for new directions but one thing I really want is just PoS coming back to coherent albums with a flow (not necessarily concept albums if he no longer feels like doing those). RS1 is clearly just "random songs put together into an album", RS2 is a very good step in the right direction again but it's still not even close to what e.g. Scarsick is.

[Gorille85]

RS1 is clearly just "random songs put together into an album"

WAT

[Zantera]

I can sorta agree.
No offense to the RS-albums now, but what I really miss, is the whole "album divided into chapters" and the concept-thing, I really love it how it works on pretty much all their previous albums.
When I look back at Entropia, One Hour.., The Perfect Element, Remedy Lane, BE.. I really think of the great concepts, and while some have been more concept albums then others, I still really love their thing of having chapters and having songs really flow together nicely.

In comparison, RS is "just" an album with songs on it.
Nothing particularly wrong with the flow, but yeah, would love to see the chapters/concept-thing come back.

[ariich]

I love probably more non-concept albums than concept albums, so I don't really care. The flow on the RS albums is excellent, that's all that matters to me.

[wolfking]

I was definitely a huge Johan fan, him and Daniel made a terrific team live.  Could less involvment with the music over the past two albums be a possible reason too?  But as someone said, studio has always been a DG thing.

[Zantera]

Additionally to seeing them open for Opeth in December, they announced that they'll be coming back here in March again, and I'll get tickets for that asap.

[Perpetual Change]

I was definitely a huge Johan fan, him and Daniel made a terrific team live.  Could less involvment with the music over the past two albums be a possible reason too?  But as someone said, studio has always been a DG thing.

Indirectly, definitely. And I'd expect the same reason is true for everyone.

Some will say, "but Daniel's always done everything!" While that's true, there's something else to consider: people will stick with things if they're emotionally involved in them, even if it means making some tough choices. When PoS started out, the guys didn't have families. So even if DG was running the show then, the members weren't required to make many tough choices between their professional and domestic life. Their roles in the band might not have been ideal, but they still were probably the best thing each guy had going for him. Fast-foward to a couple years later, when most of the members in PoS are married guys with families. Suddenly, there's a choice to be made: stay with the band at the expense of spending a couple months per year away from home, your family, and regular means of employment? Or split with the band to stay home, and work on some other music projects on the side?

That decision is a lot easier to make when the "job" is just a gig which you are not involved with on an emotional level and make no significant contribution to. I expect, unfortunately, that's how its been with pretty much every PoS member, which is why all of them seem more than willing to leave as soon as they have something else worthwhile going on in their lives.

[ClairvoyantCat]

I was definitely a huge Johan fan, him and Daniel made a terrific team live.  Could less involvment with the music over the past two albums be a possible reason too?  But as someone said, studio has always been a DG thing.

Do we actually have any reason to believe that the two recent albums were any different as far as involvement from the ones before them?  The Road Salt albums gave us a description of the roles in the studio, and it was very obvious then that Daniel was behind most of what went in to the album.  Just because it wasn't all listed there in the previous records didn't mean that there has been any sort of change in the way Daniel chooses to run things in recording. 

Also, @PC, why in the hell would the fact that Johan's recording/writing role has been small affect whether or not he is emotionally involved?  I think it's possible to be emotionally involved in someone else's music, I've seen it done before.  So in the one recording that is made on the studio he doesn't get to contribute much, but he has dozens of performances to play it his own way.  Seems okay enough to me. 

I just think you'd be jumping to conclusions in trying to relate Johan's departure to anything more than the reasons given.  (Kid, wife, etc.)

[Perpetual Change]

Hmm, what I'm trying to get at is, if Johan had been that involved to begin with, it'd probably be much harder for him to choose between wife/kid and band. He'd probably make compromises and get both to work, as plenty of musicians do as this is something which is fairly common for members of the profession. The fact that he's never been that involved makes it easier for him to walk away completely, rather than try and reconcile the conflict between band/family somehow.

[wolfking]

I really get what PC is saying, and CC, you are totally right that we are not sure how much involvement the rest of the members have had on previous cd's, but when you look at it, RS was more stripped back, lack of guitar melodies and solos, so if you were Johan, there is not much there to grasp onto, especially when looking at the content of older albums music wise.

[faemir]

Suddenly, there's a choice to be made: stay with the band at the expense of spending a couple months per year away from home, your family, and regular means of employment? Or split with the band to stay home, and work on some other music projects on the side?

A couple of months a year? If a band does a worldwide tour, surely it's far, far more than just two months.

[Perpetual Change]

A couple of months a year? If a band does a worldwide tour, surely it's far, far more than just two months.

Not necessarily. Most "world tours" today only consist of dates in Europe and North America. A month in each place sounds about right...? I can't see PoS playing Asia or South America, tbh.

[faemir]

Well didn't they just play Australia too?

So when I hear these bands talking about a year nonstop of touring.. what do they mean?

[Perpetual Change]

Not really sure. With DT do two legs of North America and Europe per tour, plus Asia, South America, and Australia occasionally, and they tour extensively.

If PoS wanted to do a *real* world tour, it'd probably be

Europe- 1 month
North America- 1 month
South America- 2 weeks
Australia- 2 weeks
Asia- 2 weeks

I'm just going by how long it seems to take DT to do each place, so those time-slots aren't definite. And, honestly, they could easily get away with doing just NA and EU because that's what most bands do anyway.

[wolfking]

Well didn't they just play Australia too?

So when I hear these bands talking about a year nonstop of touring.. what do they mean?

I didn't hear anything about an Australian tour.  I hope I didn't miss them! 

[Lynxo]

I thought it was pretty well-known that from The Perfect Element Part 1, Daniel has more or less done all of the writing. In a recent interview in the Sweden Rock magazine, he mentions former member Daniel Magick (or what was his name) and says he helped write Entropia and parts of One Hour, even thought he weren't on that album.

And I really see no problem with this? Not every band is like Dream Theater where every member contributes. Take a look at Opeth for example - Mikael Åkerfeldt more or less does everything there. And it really doesn't mean that the music itself means less for the other members.

[shadowfex]

Well didn't they just play Australia too?

So when I hear these bands talking about a year nonstop of touring.. what do they mean?

I didn't hear anything about an Australian tour.  I hope I didn't miss them! 

They supported Dream Theater in late'09 I think. It was awesome 

[wolfking]

Well didn't they just play Australia too?

So when I hear these bands talking about a year nonstop of touring.. what do they mean?

I didn't hear anything about an Australian tour.  I hope I didn't miss them! 

They supported Dream Theater in late'09 I think. It was awesome 

Yeah, I knew nothing about the band at that time, so I got to the venue late just as DT were starting.  I'm kicking myself now I tell you.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Previews of the two Japanese bonus tracks for Road Salt Two..

"Last Night" https://cnt01.labelgate.com/morawin/top/WL001/60000038/MICP-11021/clip-MICP-11021-15.asx
"Thirty-Eight" https://cnt01.labelgate.com/morawin/top/WL001/60000038/MICP-11021/clip-MICP-11021-16.asx

Both sound very interesting. 

[faemir]

Thirty-Eight sounds great.

edit: HOLY BEARD BATMAN

[pain of occupation]

When it's ~7 minutes instrumental without vocals on an album that has vocals, then it's way too long for my taste.
It also might explain my dislike for DT's latter half in their discography, seeing as the instrumental-sections on their albums became longer and longer (to me at least).

just curious how you'd feel about scenes from a memory...considering its not only am album with vocals but a conceptual album with vocals(and a story), its kinda remarkable how they go, what, 10 or 11 minutes from the last vocal line in home to the first line in one last time

as for faemir, thorn clown is cool.

also as for faemir, i have em all except never learn to fly, of which i desire.

edit: oh, i also dont have the RS2 japanese bonus tracks. more desires.

[pain of occupation]

as for johan leaving the band, im not sure its completely sunk in. there was about a 40 hour span at one point last week where i totally forgot about the news.

i'm sad but not nearly as upset as my wife's been about it.

from the sounds of it, the next direction will be a continuation of the folk thats crept into their (well, HIS) music...i was kinda hoping for a return to the progressive metal of entropia.
...so i guess if theyre looking for a replacement i say... BRING BACK MAGDIK!

[Zantera]

just curious how you'd feel about scenes from a memory...considering its not only am album with vocals but a conceptual album with vocals(and a story), its kinda remarkable how they go, what, 10 or 11 minutes from the last vocal line in home to the first line in one last time

SFAM is probably my third favorite DT-album behind Awake and 6DOIT, but yeah.. as much as I enjoy it, I sorta "loose" the thread near the ending sometimes when I hear it, because of that long instrumental-part.