Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[Adami]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

[PixelDream]

I would’ve expected less from ITPLOD in the set.

[Zantera]

I wonder if Daniel has been burnt out or something cause it feels like the band is moving at a snail's pace and losing momentum. Sure, I fully get it around ITPLOD when he had his health issues and that must have been scary. But it's only been 4 years since Panther came out and I feel like there's barely been any activity? They did a NA tour for Panther but they didn't even do a EU tour for it? As a swede myself I find it really weird that the band hasn't even played a show here within their own country since 2018. 6 years ago!

[jammindude]

I wonder if Daniel has been burnt out or something cause it feels like the band is moving at a snail's pace and losing momentum. Sure, I fully get it around ITPLOD when he had his health issues and that must have been scary. But it's only been 4 years since Panther came out and I feel like there's barely been any activity? They did a NA tour for Panther but they didn't even do a EU tour for it? As a swede myself I find it really weird that the band hasn't even played a show here within their own country since 2018. 6 years ago!

As far as live shows go…I imagine the health issues he suffered may have left him immune compromised and thus he might be extremely cautious about the post COVID world.

But it is odd that we haven’t heard anything about new music.

[PixelDream]

I follow Daniel on facebook and about a year or so ago he posted something along the lines of not being motivated at all to write new music. He didn’t see the point and was mostly just teaching guitar for a while.

I do recall him posting more about album recordings over the last half year.

[Adami]

I follow Daniel on facebook and about a year or so ago he posted something along the lines of not being motivated at all to write new music. He didn’t see the point and was mostly just teaching guitar for a while.

I do recall him posting more about album recordings over the last half year.

That's a shame. I follow him on Instagram. So many of his posts over the last year or two were him taking apart old phones or something.

But he did post a few of him jamming with the old PoS crew, minus his brother. Wasn't sure if those were just fun jams or a more serious project that was never mentioned again.

Either way there definitely seems to be a lack of spark. All of the shows over the last years have been close to the same. If he is done, that's fine. Glad we got what we got. Hope he doesn't try to force something and only writes if he's inspired.

[Kocak]

I follow Daniel on facebook and about a year or so ago he posted something along the lines of not being motivated at all to write new music. He didn’t see the point and was mostly just teaching guitar for a while.

I do recall him posting more about album recordings over the last half year.

That's a shame. I follow him on Instagram. So many of his posts over the last year or two were him taking apart old phones or something.

But he did post a few of him jamming with the old PoS crew, minus his brother. Wasn't sure if those were just fun jams or a more serious project that was never mentioned again.

Either way there definitely seems to be a lack of spark. All of the shows over the last years have been close to the same. If he is done, that's fine. Glad we got what we got. Hope he doesn't try to force something and only writes if he's inspired.

While I was reading your post, I thought of your last sentence. Forced music isn't something I want from one of my favourite musicians.

[goo-goo]

IIRC, at some point, he hinted/wondered if the new music being written was going to be released under a different band name/project. This was probably a year ago.

[Kram]

I follow Daniel on facebook and about a year or so ago he posted something along the lines of not being motivated at all to write new music. He didn’t see the point and was mostly just teaching guitar for a while.

I do recall him posting more about album recordings over the last half year.

I've actually conversed with him a few times on Facebook (made some comments and he replied, he's pretty good about engaging with the fans at times). Anyway, I commented last summer that I'm patiently waiting for the new album - he replied to me and said unfortunately I'll be waiting for awhile, as he hasn't touched it in months.  So yeah, not sure whats going on with him.  I was actually kind of surprised to see they were playing at that festival.

[Zantera]

I also appreciate what he has given us and I can respect him not feeling it and not forcing it. Honestly when you look at the PoS discography there's a lot of "what ifs". Even as someone who hasn't necessarily disliked any of their albums and enjoyed the new era with the last 2 albums, you still can't help but feel for Daniel. You go back to like Scarsick and their classic lineup starting to fall apart and that combined with mixed reception for some albums in a row, it must be hard mentally for someone like Daniel.

[Kocak]

I also appreciate what he has given us and I can respect him not feeling it and not forcing it. Honestly when you look at the PoS discography there's a lot of "what ifs". Even as someone who hasn't necessarily disliked any of their albums and enjoyed the new era with the last 2 albums, you still can't help but feel for Daniel. You go back to like Scarsick and their classic lineup starting to fall apart and that combined with mixed reception for some albums in a row, it must be hard mentally for someone like Daniel.

I think this is the case for a number of bands, once you have a some successful albums that people identified the band with, they start expecting that sort of vibe and when you cannot live up to it, people lose interest in the band or they end up becoming a nostalgia act milking their past creations.

For me DG and Mikael from Opeth are in similar situations, both could have continued as solo artists and retired the band at different points in their respective careers and they could have been more successful in my humble opinion as it would have given them more freedom. There are more examples in the music world for this, I think musicians, at times, fail to let go of something that they built out of sentimentality and/or financial reasons.

[Zantera]

I also appreciate what he has given us and I can respect him not feeling it and not forcing it. Honestly when you look at the PoS discography there's a lot of "what ifs". Even as someone who hasn't necessarily disliked any of their albums and enjoyed the new era with the last 2 albums, you still can't help but feel for Daniel. You go back to like Scarsick and their classic lineup starting to fall apart and that combined with mixed reception for some albums in a row, it must be hard mentally for someone like Daniel.

I think this is the case for a number of bands, once you have a some successful albums that people identified the band with, they start expecting that sort of vibe and when you cannot live up to it, people lose interest in the band or they end up becoming a nostalgia act milking their past creations.

For me DG and Mikael from Opeth are in similar situations, both could have continued as solo artists and retired the band at different points in their respective careers and they could have been more successful in my humble opinion as it would have given them more freedom. There are more examples in the music world for this, I think musicians, at times, fail to let go of something that they built out of sentimentality and/or financial reasons.

Opeth is another good analogy. Definitely some similarities with both bands with Daniel/Mikael being the only real permanent members throughout all the years. All the member changes in PoS probably has taken a toll on Daniel as well over the years. You would at least imagine at some point, maybe around BE when they still had their classic lineup that the vibe of the band was "we'll do this forever and have fun and make great albums together" but then they fall off 1 by 1 and get replaced and that combined with lower interest in the band means Daniel is doing a lot of heavy lifting by himself these days without being surrounded by the people who helped make some of those magic albums.

[SoundscapeMN]

I've always wondered if the lack of access to the orchestra needed for what Daniel said was going to be The Perfect Element part II, impacted some of how things turned out.

When he was interviewed about Be, he explained how they wanted a specific orchestra to use for TPE part II, but they were not available...like several years I guess.

And then they did Be instead, and then Scarsick comes out and it's considered TPE Part II, but where was the orchestra?..I wonder if that changed the course of what they did and they ended up with Kristoffer and then Langell leaving and it kind of collapsed.

[obelix5150]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

FWIW, the gig from the last weekend at Midwinter Prog Fest was done with no band rehearsal and us having not played together since early September. Not a lot of chances to get new material into the setlist. (Even as it was, we added "Icon" back into the set having not played it together since 2022. Thankfully it was a success!)

[Adami]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

FWIW, the gig from the last weekend at Midwinter Prog Fest was done with no band rehearsal and us having not played together since early September. Not a lot of chances to get new material into the setlist. (Even as it was, we added "Icon" back into the set having not played it together since 2022. Thankfully it was a success!)

Hey man, always appreciate you posting here. I couldn't be there but I have no doubt y'all sounded great. It's just tough when you're a huge fan of a band, so you want to hear/see a wide variety of stuff. Obviously good reasons for it, just a bit of a bummer.

[obelix5150]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

FWIW, the gig from the last weekend at Midwinter Prog Fest was done with no band rehearsal and us having not played together since early September. Not a lot of chances to get new material into the setlist. (Even as it was, we added "Icon" back into the set having not played it together since 2022. Thankfully it was a success!)

Hey man, always appreciate you posting here. I couldn't be there but I have no doubt y'all sounded great. It's just tough when you're a huge fan of a band, so you want to hear/see a wide variety of stuff. Obviously good reasons for it, just a bit of a bummer.

Totally understand. There's a wealth of amazing material to choose from in that discography, that's for sure!

[Adami]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

FWIW, the gig from the last weekend at Midwinter Prog Fest was done with no band rehearsal and us having not played together since early September. Not a lot of chances to get new material into the setlist. (Even as it was, we added "Icon" back into the set having not played it together since 2022. Thankfully it was a success!)

Hey man, always appreciate you posting here. I couldn't be there but I have no doubt y'all sounded great. It's just tough when you're a huge fan of a band, so you want to hear/see a wide variety of stuff. Obviously good reasons for it, just a bit of a bummer.

Totally understand. There's a wealth of amazing material to choose from in that discography, that's for sure!

As their keyboardist, are there any specific songs that you haven't played live with them that you'd really love to?

[obelix5150]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

FWIW, the gig from the last weekend at Midwinter Prog Fest was done with no band rehearsal and us having not played together since early September. Not a lot of chances to get new material into the setlist. (Even as it was, we added "Icon" back into the set having not played it together since 2022. Thankfully it was a success!)

Hey man, always appreciate you posting here. I couldn't be there but I have no doubt y'all sounded great. It's just tough when you're a huge fan of a band, so you want to hear/see a wide variety of stuff. Obviously good reasons for it, just a bit of a bummer.

Totally understand. There's a wealth of amazing material to choose from in that discography, that's for sure!

As their keyboardist, are there any specific songs that you haven't played live with them that you'd really love to?

For me personally, seeing Remedy Lane in its entirety in 2014 at ProgPower USA absolutely changed my life... so anything from that record would be a "full-circle" moment for me.

[SoundscapeMN]

I can attest..I've seen well over 500 concerts, and the 1st ProgPowerUSA Pain of Salvation show in 2001 in Lansing, IL remains my favorite concert ever.

[Adami]

And still it’s only last two albums and stuff from TPE.

FWIW, the gig from the last weekend at Midwinter Prog Fest was done with no band rehearsal and us having not played together since early September. Not a lot of chances to get new material into the setlist. (Even as it was, we added "Icon" back into the set having not played it together since 2022. Thankfully it was a success!)

Hey man, always appreciate you posting here. I couldn't be there but I have no doubt y'all sounded great. It's just tough when you're a huge fan of a band, so you want to hear/see a wide variety of stuff. Obviously good reasons for it, just a bit of a bummer.

Totally understand. There's a wealth of amazing material to choose from in that discography, that's for sure!

As their keyboardist, are there any specific songs that you haven't played live with them that you'd really love to?

For me personally, seeing Remedy Lane in its entirety in 2014 at ProgPower USA absolutely changed my life... so anything from that record would be a "full-circle" moment for me.

That would be amazing.

I know Daniel had a habit of "reworking" Undertow for different tours. It'd be really cool to hear how he interprets that song these days with the mentality and sound of the last two albums.

[devieira73]

From POS FB:
I've had problems finding my way back to the album. But now I'm at it and having fun!

There was a time when sharing my music with others meant the world to me. With age, and especially after the pandemic, I've grown frighteningly content with just sharing it with a few selected friends, or even just hearing it in my head without recording it.

Many of the key aspects of why I loved making albums have dissipated over the years. The process has become a lonely one, without hanging for hours on end in a rehearsing room, without spending weeks in a big studio. And with every album release, there is more back catalog for the fans and press to compare with and express dissatisfaction with. I didn't dive headlong into music as a kid to sit at a computer on my own week after week, or to get judged and rated by opinionated somebodies around the world. I love making music, singing and playing my heart out, having fun with other musicians, show and be shown the ropes on new techniques and creative ideas. I simply fell in love with music.

If these aspects fade too much out of view, I will respectfully back out. See, I have a responsibility to Music – to remain passionate. To invest my entire heart and soul into it. Every inch of the way.

These last years, I have grown extremely tired of opinions, posts, content, arguments, upset feelings and agitated world views. Why should I even consider bringing my thoughts and my music to that overly set table, creaking at the hinges from all the indigestible stuff that's already heaped upon it? Would I not be part of the problem? If I have a strong longing for the entire mankind to just shut the fuck up for a mere two seconds and take a deep breath, should I not be the first to do so?

Teaching music to kids have been an absolute joy these last two years. They make sense, and I learn a lot myself from teaching them. And we have fun, playing music together. A lot of the building blocks that I have come to miss from the album making processes.

So, I shut the fuck up a bit and took a deep breath or two. And now it's fun again. If 90% of this species are halfwits, then what the hell, I'll give my heart to the remaining 10% before they lose their mojo the way I did. Hang in there. The Deep End is coming to life again. 🤘♥️

[abydos]

Sounds like a terminally online syndrome + someone who can't take opinions different than his well, which has always been the case. I still have that email somewhere of him responding to my initial bad impressions from BE when it first came out and they had comments open on their website.

[Adami]

I get it, and that's unfortunate.

I'd also imagine the process is currently lonely because he doesn't involve any other band members except Leo when it comes time to record. So yea, writing and recording everything else alone is...lonely. I say this as someone who does a similar thing. But if you're lonely, then bring in Johan and Leo from the beginning. Get a permanent bassist and keyboardist and bring them in. Make it a band project instead of a strictly Daniel project and maybe it won't be so lonely.

And yea, he does seem sensitive to opinions other than his own. Sadly typical these days. But I hope he remembers WHY he started making music in the first place. Doubt it was to make everyone agree with him.

[Zantera]

I totally understand a lot of his reasoning and why he would feel the way he does. This will be a bit of a long post so I'm sorry about that!

You can go back about 20 years and PoS were on the forefront of a wave of new exciting progressive metal/rock bands who were putting out quality albums. I think the first 5 albums are honestly a very strong opening for any band's discography and while I'm aware that BE is a controversial one, I do include it with their peak not only because its my favorite but because a lot of people hold it in high regard. Then after that you get Scarsick which was even more controversial and mixed among fans, they did the 70s retro trend with the Road Salts and similarly to Opeth for example I'd say that cost them some fans and gained some others, but overall the albums seemed to be received fairly lukewarm. In the Passing Light of Day was meant to be a sort of reboot, "back to basics" with Ragnar as the right hand man to Daniel but that ended with drama, Panther was a perfectly fine album that just sorta came and went. The timing (the pandemic) didn't help it either and they didn't even tour for it in the EU.

I guess my point is that they were on such an exciting trajectory back then and while I haven't disliked any of the albums since, they haven't had an album as good as The Perfect Element or Remedy Lane in the last 20 years. It definitely feels like the enthusiasm around the band from fans has evaporated over time and whether that's because of the Road Salt albums or members leaving/being replaced left and right, who knows? I guess ironically I'm guilty of doing what Daniel complained about in his post, looking at their output and being critical and dismissive but I guess my point is that it must be frustrating as a musician to be putting your heart and soul into your music and not feeling like you're moving forward. It feels like the general hype around the band is lower than it was, the albums are received worse and they don't stick around in people's minds (or discussions) as classics, it doesn't seem like their popularity is rising and the venues they're playing are about the same I'd guess. I can totally get any frustration related to that.

Progressive music in general is obviously a bit niche and I don't think anyone expected a band like PoS to break out and become a huge band playing stadiums. However I think a comparison could be made between Daniel and Steven Wilson. They both lead prog bands that broke through in the late 90s/early 00s with a lot of hype around them as the next big thing in prog. Steven has done a great job at expanding his reputation through his remix work but also different projects and Porcupine Tree somehow got bigger during their long hiatus and played some big venues. Steven himself has played a lot of solo shows and you could tell with each tour that the reputation was spreading. I'll still be excited for a new PoS album and I would go see them if they play here, but I can't help but shake the thoughts that the last 15 years or so of PoS fall under 'missed potential'. Whenever I listen to the live album Ending Themes (from the Scarsick tour) I feel like I'm listening to a band in their prime, despite Scarsick being a bit mixed ready to take on the world. And now 15 years later I feel like that never happened sadly.

[goo-goo]

Remember besides the extreme sound shift on the Road Salts album, he didn't like the US politics at that time and did not tour the US for a while. And after that, he had that intestine illness that was severe and kept him out of writing/touring for a year or so.

[SoundscapeMN]

well conflict often drives creativity, so in a way, the frustrations he's had may translate for better music.

I would think given time and aging, a lot of the fan reactions and criticism would mean and impact him less. I.e..."I'm too old for this shit" or "I don't have time for drama" or just not caring all that much about someone commenting on a FB post of his or a review that he doesn't agree with or understand.

But the last few years, the environment is pretty unprecedented, especially as a musician. I would guess the work he's done teaching music to kids would be humbling and given more perspective. But when you get comments asking where's the album, etc..it may eventually get to be too much to just ignore.

[Kocak]

I think, his feelings also relate to the expectations that the "Pain of Salvation" label brings. A lot of bands and their members struggle with having a label. Arguably, Pain of Salvation could have stopped being a band in the first decade of the 21st century and DG could have tried his luck being a solo artist. Same goes for Opeth as well. (Examples could multiply.) A lot of musicians feel emotional about dropping their commercially viable brands and trap themselves in a creative box, ending up unhappy.

In my opinion, bands could be "limited projects" and the musical world would be better for it.