Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[Max Kuehnau]

Was at the DC show.  I had the prime spot right in front of Daniel, which really wasn't that hard to get because the venue was less than half full.  Kind of sad to see that the turnout is so low.  I'm still wondering why they've never toured as a support act in the U.S. (as far as I can remember).  It seems like they went straight to headline shows but never built the audience up. 

Anyway the show was amazing.  I honestly neither noticed nor cared about the lack of bass player, except in the intro of Icon when that bass solo came through the PA lol.  I was surprised that Daniel's singing was impeccable and he was hitting all the high notes from TPE material without issue.  After seeing some clips of recent years I though he couldn't do that anymore but at least tonight he 100% could.  I also gotta say that the new stuff rocks harder on stage and when they busted out The Perfect Element it actually sounded kind of antique.  Leo sang that "I lost the will" moment in On a Tuesday which was a really big moment. 

Daniel didn't come out after the show unfortunately but I had lovely conversations with Vikram, Leo, and Johan.  All unbelievably nice people, an excellent lineup on and off stage.

Great report! I agree, they should open for DT or Opeth or someone like that.  They're one of my favorite bands, so it's sad to hear of such small turnouts.  It must have been amazing for you to be right in front of Daniel though.

Pain Of Salvation did open for DT already, in 2002, during the first European leg of the 6D tour (and the only one of the tour to actually have carried an opening act, all the others didn't anymore, at least in Europe), which btw was the second time I saw DT.

[Ben_Jamin]

Damn, seeing The Perfect Element live must be something special. Just quickly skipped through and it sounds daaaamn good. The keyboard guy is awesome! 🤘 I hate how POS usually manages to skip Sweden haha.

Her Voices is one of my favorite songs and it sounded amazing here!

When preparing for ProgPower I was listening to The Perfect Element, pretty much for the first time. I came to love Her Voices and loved it live.

[Kram]

Was at the DC show.  I had the prime spot right in front of Daniel, which really wasn't that hard to get because the venue was less than half full.  Kind of sad to see that the turnout is so low.  I'm still wondering why they've never toured as a support act in the U.S. (as far as I can remember).  It seems like they went straight to headline shows but never built the audience up. 

Anyway the show was amazing.  I honestly neither noticed nor cared about the lack of bass player, except in the intro of Icon when that bass solo came through the PA lol.  I was surprised that Daniel's singing was impeccable and he was hitting all the high notes from TPE material without issue.  After seeing some clips of recent years I though he couldn't do that anymore but at least tonight he 100% could.  I also gotta say that the new stuff rocks harder on stage and when they busted out The Perfect Element it actually sounded kind of antique.  Leo sang that "I lost the will" moment in On a Tuesday which was a really big moment. 

Daniel didn't come out after the show unfortunately but I had lovely conversations with Vikram, Leo, and Johan.  All unbelievably nice people, an excellent lineup on and off stage.

Great report! I agree, they should open for DT or Opeth or someone like that.  They're one of my favorite bands, so it's sad to hear of such small turnouts.  It must have been amazing for you to be right in front of Daniel though.

Pain Of Salvation did open for DT already, in 2002, during the first European leg of the 6D tour (and the only one of the tour to actually have carried an opening act, all the others didn't anymore, at least in Europe), which btw was the second time I saw DT.

I know, but that was 20 years ago.  I was thinking more along the lines of opening for them on a US tour.  To get them some much needed exposure here in North America.

[goo-goo]

Remember that PoS, more specifically Daniel, refused to tour the US during the George W. Bush days I believe....and then he got really really sick for a year or two. All the momentum the band had up to that point in the US quickly faded. Now they are back in the US and they still make money, otherwise, they wouldn't have returned after their US headlining show prior to Covid (I caught them in Dallas at an outdoor venue and it was fucking freezing, turnout was less compared to what I saw in this years tour pictures).

[Kram]

Remember that PoS, more specifically Daniel, refused to tour the US during the George W. Bush days I believe....and then he got really really sick for a year or two. All the momentum the band had up to that point in the US quickly faded. Now they are back in the US and they still make money, otherwise, they wouldn't have returned after their US headlining show prior to Covid (I caught them in Dallas at an outdoor venue and it was fucking freezing, turnout was less compared to what I saw in this years tour pictures).

You're right - I forgot he refused to enter the US LOL.  Well obvioulsy that's no longer the case.  So I'm calling for a 2nd North American leg of the View From a Top of The World tour, with special guests Pain of Salvation.  I think this would be a win win for both bands!

[Kram]

Daniel posted on Facebook a few days ago (and I'm paraphrasing) that he just wasted 20 mins scrolling down through Facebook and it was all nonsense he didn't see anything that interested him.  So I replied and said I basically just did the same thing (I did) and that I can't wait for the new album.  He replied to me and said I might have to wait as he hasn't touched it in months.  I replied and just said I will patiently wait then, didn't ask why.  But now I'm wondering what the delay is - label related, or maybe he's just not inspired now?  Anyway, just wanted to update any of you POS fans on here with this info.

[Nick]

He could be feeling like a Panther, an animal which, to the best of my knowledge, is unable to play guitar.

[Adami]

So Daniel posted a pic of the two Johanns saying they're gonna make new music together. And I am super pumped.

[devieira73]

Niiice!! Leo is great, but I miss a lot Johan's drumming in PoS music (I  know they are recording now as a different project). I think Johan added more of his own style than Leo in PoS music. Just listen how Leo's drumming is similar to the drums played by Daniel in the In the Passing Light of Day demos.

[PixelDream]

ITPOL, sure, but I think Leo really came into his own on Panther. Not only what he plays but all the different approaches and sounds. I had to get used to his main snare sound on the album, but eventually it really gels with the music on that album.

[wolfking]

So Daniel posted a pic of the two Johanns saying they're gonna make new music together. And I am super pumped.

This technically could still mean POS. 

[Kram]

Niiice!! Leo is great, but I miss a lot Johan's drumming in PoS music (I  know they are recording now as a different project). I think Johan added more of his own style than Leo in PoS music. Just listen how Leo's drumming is similar to the drums played by Daniel in the In the Passing Light of Day demos.

Did he say this is a new project - or just old friends jamming together having fun?

[Adami]

He said new heavy music.

[Kram]

He said new heavy music.

I'm down for that.  I wonder what's going on with the new POS album though - it's been in the works for a long time now.

[obelix5150]

Vikram Shankar here, just wanted to come in real quick and thank everyone for their kind words re: the Pain of Salvation gigs last year. It was beyond surreal to play with the guys for a month, including the historic Perfect Element set.

He's awesome but there are moments when I feel like he's overplaying a bit in the TPE gig and throwing in flashy stuff that was never really part of the PoS vocabulary.  If he became full time I'd wanna see that reigned in a bit personally.  But, super nice guy bringing tons of energy for sure.  Maybe they could keep him and have D2 fill the empty bass position...

Appreciate the honesty! When prepping for the TPE gig I asked Daniel what his approach to that side of things was, as well as freedom to improv and be creative, and he was open to a degree of creative freedom, and so for certain parts of the set, like some of the "jammy" parts of In The Flesh, I did let loose a little bit. Perhaps a bit much, in hindsight. I tend to get fully immersed in the energy and spirit of the songs and in the spirit of that, sometimes things happen that you don't foresee. I guess that's the joy of true live performance.    For the vast majority of the TPE gig I did try to view it as a sort of "historical" event and be as faithful to the original recording as possible, spending time researching the original equipment and patches used, and trying to use splits and layers and patch programming to execute live things that ordinarily would have either been ignored or relegated to back track, like the string quartet parts. I apologize if anything I did in that set was a bit much, but it was out of love, I promise 

[senecadawg2]

Greetings Vikram! I really enjoyed your contributions, and both of the shows I was lucky enough to attend (Charlotte and PPUSA) were among my favorites in a long time. Keep up the great work.

[Kram]

Vikram Shankar here, just wanted to come in real quick and thank everyone for their kind words re: the Pain of Salvation gigs last year. It was beyond surreal to play with the guys for a month, including the historic Perfect Element set.

He's awesome but there are moments when I feel like he's overplaying a bit in the TPE gig and throwing in flashy stuff that was never really part of the PoS vocabulary.  If he became full time I'd wanna see that reigned in a bit personally.  But, super nice guy bringing tons of energy for sure.  Maybe they could keep him and have D2 fill the empty bass position...

Appreciate the honesty! When prepping for the TPE gig I asked Daniel what his approach to that side of things was, as well as freedom to improv and be creative, and he was open to a degree of creative freedom, and so for certain parts of the set, like some of the "jammy" parts of In The Flesh, I did let loose a little bit. Perhaps a bit much, in hindsight. I tend to get fully immersed in the energy and spirit of the songs and in the spirit of that, sometimes things happen that you don't foresee. I guess that's the joy of true live performance.    For the vast majority of the TPE gig I did try to view it as a sort of "historical" event and be as faithful to the original recording as possible, spending time researching the original equipment and patches used, and trying to use splits and layers and patch programming to execute live things that ordinarily would have either been ignored or relegated to back track, like the string quartet parts. I apologize if anything I did in that set was a bit much, but it was out of love, I promise 

Don't apologize for anything Vikram you were awesome!  IMO it really added to the "live" feel of the show and hey, you had Daniel's approval so all's good.  Thanks again!

[axeman90210]

Vikram, I'm still trying to recover from that second set you guys played on CttE last year

[PMSummer]

Hey everyone! Just had to jump in and give this thread a bump because Pain of Salvation is seriously one of my absolute favorite bands ever. Their mix of progressive metal and rock, combined with their deep and meaningful lyrics, just blows me away.

I can't help but adore Pain of Salvation for their knack of crafting songs that are not just musically rich but also emotionally charged. It's like they take you on this incredible rollercoaster ride of feelings and thoughts with each album.

Now, if I had to pick, my top two go-to albums would hands down be "Remedy Lane" and "The Perfect Element" "Remedy Lane" dives deep into human emotions and relationships, hitting you right in the feels, while "The Perfect Element, Part I" is like a musical tale that grips you from start to finish. These albums have left such a mark on me!

If you haven't given them a listen yet, trust me, you're missing out on something incredible!

[Kram]

Hey everyone! Just had to jump in and give this thread a bump because Pain of Salvation is seriously one of my absolute favorite bands ever. Their mix of progressive metal and rock, combined with their deep and meaningful lyrics, just blows me away.

I can't help but adore Pain of Salvation for their knack of crafting songs that are not just musically rich but also emotionally charged. It's like they take you on this incredible rollercoaster ride of feelings and thoughts with each album.

Now, if I had to pick, my top two go-to albums would hands down be "Remedy Lane" and "The Perfect Element" "Remedy Lane" dives deep into human emotions and relationships, hitting you right in the feels, while "The Perfect Element, Part I" is like a musical tale that grips you from start to finish. These albums have left such a mark on me!

If you haven't given them a listen yet, trust me, you're missing out on something incredible!

Two of my all-time favorite albums by anyone. Incredible works of art!

[jammindude]

Hey everyone! Just had to jump in and give this thread a bump because Pain of Salvation is seriously one of my absolute favorite bands ever. Their mix of progressive metal and rock, combined with their deep and meaningful lyrics, just blows me away.

I can't help but adore Pain of Salvation for their knack of crafting songs that are not just musically rich but also emotionally charged. It's like they take you on this incredible rollercoaster ride of feelings and thoughts with each album.

Now, if I had to pick, my top two go-to albums would hands down be "Remedy Lane" and "The Perfect Element" "Remedy Lane" dives deep into human emotions and relationships, hitting you right in the feels, while "The Perfect Element, Part I" is like a musical tale that grips you from start to finish. These albums have left such a mark on me!

If you haven't given them a listen yet, trust me, you're missing out on something incredible!

You're pretty much preaching to the choir on this forum. More than a few of us were screaming fan boys when those albums were first released.  I remember that a lot of us really liked BE as well, but it seems like wheels started to fall off with Scarsick...which I personally still think is very good, but I know it was extremely controversial both musically and socially.

But after that, even I started to wonder if there was any gas left in the tank. The Road Salt albums had some brilliant moments, but were pretty uneven on the whole (much like Metallica's Load albums, you probably could have made a single disc great album by trimming the fat a bit) and while Passing Light was a big improvement, and was obviously an extremely personal album, I still felt there were a couple of duds that held it back from being a full "return to glory".   But it was enough of an improvement that I picked up Panther right away.  With Panther, I could respect that he was doing something really different, it just wasn't resonating with me.

Now looking back on the entire catalog, I realize that I only ever reach for the first 4 albums (and BE when I'm feeling more adventurous) and I just don't see them as a first day buy anymore. Daniel would have to really outdo himself before I would renew my interest.

[PMSummer]

Oh, I totally get where you're coming from! Those early Pain of Salvation albums were like pure gold, although I would include "BE" as well. "Scarsick" was a turning point, I kinda liked it myself, but I get that it raised some eyebrows and it's definitely not at the same level.

I totally agree with your take on the "Road Salt" albums - some real gems, but definitely a bit uneven. Together they have one great album hidden within but with a lot of filler. "In the Passing Light of Day," took a while to grow on me but it's definitely a bit of a return to firm, probably my favourite since BE. And about "Panther," I respect the different direction they took, even though it didn't totally click for me either. Even though they haven't hit the same heights as e.g."Remedy Lane" in a long time, I'm still looking forward to see what they do next

[axeman90210]

Remedy Lane to me is still their masterpiece, one of my top ten albums of all time. I dig TPE but not quite to the same level. I feel like I'm in the minority on BE, I can't stand it. Every few years I try to revisit it and have the same reaction. I can definitely get behind the Road Salts being PoS's Load/Reload, just like the latter two, I find most of the really strong material to be on Road Salt 1 and then a couple gems on the second album. ItPLoD is maybe my second favorite Pain of Salvation album, I love how aggressive and emotionally raw it is. I never quite vibed with the different direction of Panther, but some of those songs popped more in a live setting.

[Kwyjibo]

You are definitely not alone regarding BE. I wouldn't say that I can't stand it but it's at the bottom in my ranking.

Very ambitious, maybe overambitious and therefore kind of pretentious. And between all those ideas Daniel wanted to cram into that record, he forgot to write interesting songs.

The Perfect Element is where it's at for me, closely followed by Remedy Lane. Their debut, Entropia is also a great record.

Ranking:
The Perfect Element
Remedy Lane
Entropia
In The Passing Light Of Day
Road Salt 1
Scarsick
One Hour By The Concrete Lake
Road Salt 2
Panther
BE

[jammindude]

You are definitely not alone regarding BE. I wouldn't say that I can't stand it but it's at the bottom in my ranking.

Very ambitious, maybe overambitious and therefore kind of pretentious. And between all those ideas Daniel wanted to cram into that record, he forgot to write interesting songs.

The Perfect Element is where it's at for me, closely followed by Remedy Lane. Their debut, Entropia is also a great record.

Ranking:
The Perfect Element
Remedy Lane
Entropia
In The Passing Light Of Day
Road Salt 1
Scarsick
One Hour By The Concrete Lake
Road Salt 2
Panther
BE

But that's just it. I don't think it's supposed to be an album of "songs".  It's 60 minutes of performance art.  You just have to take your head to a different place.  That's why I rarely (if ever) listen to only parts of that album. It really only works as a full one hour performance.

[Kwyjibo]

You are probably right, but when I listen to it, I want to listen to music and not performance art.

[SoundscapeMN]

I actually made a Tiermaker for the Pain of Salvation Album on my YouTube Channel a few weeks ago.

[Zantera]

BE is my favorite and it's not even up for debate but it is definitely a bit of a weird one. I recently made a playlist for road trips in the car and I wanted to have a huge list of all bands I like, maybe 10 songs from each and just put it on shuffle. As I was picking my PoS songs, I think the only one I picked from BE was Iter Impius. As much as I love the album, it's definitely a "sit down and experience the full ride" album. For me it's hard to pick out individual songs because a lot of the greatness comes from the songs complimenting each other. And so I can fully understand people not liking the album that much, because it doesn't have those instantly recognizable standout songs, but for me there's a vibe or mood to the album that's just untouched by any of their other albums.

The crazy part is I don't even really pay that close attention to the concept of BE. I'm sure Daniel is full of himself and maybe reading more into the lyrics would harm my appreciation for it. But I feel like every time I get to Vocari Dei (the instrumental song with the samples of people talking to god) I get a little choked up. I'm not religious myself but something about those people calling out for god with their prayers, it hits me on an emotional level. I think most people can relate to that desperation or loneliness you might feel sometimes in your life of everything going against you, and struggling to find the strength to carry on. Even though Vocari Dei is technically a throw away intermission type song between the proper songs, it hits me harder than a lot of the songs on their other albums.

And I like The Perfect Element a lot, I think Remedy Lane is great, Entropia is great, One Hour is good, the others a bit mixed. But even though TPE and RL are mostly fantastic with few low points, I never think about either of those albums in the way I think about BE - as albums that have that 'special' something.

[jammindude]

Vocari Dei is FAR from a throwaway intermission piece. It is a highlight of musical and emotional beauty, and a cornerstone of the album's theme.

I can't listen to it without getting choked up.

[Zantera]

Vocari Dei is FAR from a throwaway intermission piece. It is a highlight of musical and emotional beauty, and a cornerstone of the album's theme.

I can't listen to it without getting choked up.

Oh I agree! I just meant in a bigger picture I think it's a song a lot of people probably don't pay attention to and I even felt the need to add the description of which song it is on the album. I feel like BE has a couple songs like that, like the instrumental Pluvius Aestivus (the intro always reminds me of The X-files). Another great song that adds a lot of mood and atmosphere to the album, but not necessarily a song on itself that makes you go "wow this is one of their best".

[Kwyjibo]

I can totally understand what you mean, but Vocari Dei never did grab me for whatever reason and then it's just an interlude between the two longest songs, which aren't really that great. Especially Diffidentia feels like the same guitar riff played for almost seven minutes.

[Zantera]

I can totally understand what you mean, but Vocari Dei never did grab me for whatever reason and then it's just an interlude between the two longest songs, which aren't really that great. Especially Diffidentia feels like the same guitar riff played for almost seven minutes.

Diffidentia slaps really hard IMO. Repetition isn't a problem if what's being repeated is awesome!

[me7]

I love BE, but I cannot remember any track titles from it.

[Kwyjibo]

I can totally understand what you mean, but Vocari Dei never did grab me for whatever reason and then it's just an interlude between the two longest songs, which aren't really that great. Especially Diffidentia feels like the same guitar riff played for almost seven minutes.

Diffidentia slaps really hard IMO. Repetition isn't a problem if what's being repeated is awesome!

I think it's obvious why you rank it first and I rank it last. If we discusss the rest of the songs, we would have completey opposite opinions on them also. 

[Phoenix87x]

I appreciate and respect BE, but its not an album I listen to often. I have to be in the right mood, but I will say that Iter Impius is one of my favorite PoS songs for sure.

Its a challenging album, but a powerful one.