Is Our Public Education System Crippling Society?

[rumborak]

The problem is the usual with you, Tuneman. Evidence shows your favorite approach to things doesn't work (e.g. Swedish education board call voucher system failed). The reason must clearly be that the way of measuring is wrong.
If the evidence doesn't fit the theory, change your measurement equipment!

rumborak

[Adami]

I can't quite see the connection between "stop focusing on standardized tests" (which is fine) and "kids should study whatever they want, or whatever they're parents want".

At that point it just seems you're saying "As long as the gov isn't deciding, it doesn't matter who is".

[rumborak]

BTW, I don't know how it is in the US, but I can honestly say that essentially every test I have taken in both high school and college was painfully good at establishing my level of understanding of the subject. When I failed, I actually sucked at it. And when I passed, I actually knew the subject well.

rumborak

[orcus116]

Kids should be able to study whatever they want...when they go to college and have a much better idea of what they actually want to focus on.

BTW, I don't know how it is in the US, but I can honestly say that essentially every test I have taken in both high school and college was painfully good at establishing my level of understanding of the subject. When I failed, I actually sucked at it. And when I passed, I actually knew the subject well.

It was hit or miss for me but mostly because sometimes the teacher decided to completely fuck the class and make every problem twice as hard as they needed to be. I'm not even talking thinking outside the box kinda hard it was more like "here take what you've learned and pray you can abstractly come to a conclusion for something I've never taught you about" kinda hard.

[Adami]

Kids should be able to study whatever they want...when they go to college and have a much better idea of what they actually want to focus on.

Indeed.

[rumborak]

And even there there need to be standards, if only to give companies a handle to judge applicants by.

rumborak

[eric42434224]

Kids should be able to study whatever they want...when they go to college and have a much better idea of what they actually want to focus on.

Focusing on a subject is good to a certain extent.  The likelyhood a person will spend their entire working life in the narrow area they studied in college is small.  These days entire industries can change so much in such a short period of time, and even outright disappear.  To focus so much in one area can be a diservice to yourself.  

[rumborak]

BTW, one aspect of the whole discussion is usually neglected in this: The kids' home. You can spend millions on improving schools, but if the kid comes home to an essentially anti-intellectual household in which nobody picks up a book, all that money will go nowhere. And I have the impression that anti-intellectualism is really on the rise here, partly fostered by the Conservatives who use it for strategic effect.

rumborak

[eric42434224]

BTW, one aspect of the whole discussion is usually neglected in this: The kids' home. You can spend millions on improving schools, but if the kid comes home to an essentially anti-intellectual household in which nobody picks up a book, all that money will go nowhere. And I have the impression that anti-intellectualism is really on the rise here, partly fostered by the Conservatives.

rumborak

I pointed this out earlier.  The most effective change our education system needs is the real involvement of the parents (in the early stages), and in the later stages to focus on "learning how to learn".  Being intellectually flexible, and learning how to adapt, will serve a person far better than a focused cirriculum for a trade or subject that may be obsolete in 10 yrs.

[King Postwhore]

Can we look at the economy and say it's affect on making both parents work these days has diminished a parents influence on a childs work ethic?

[Adami]

Can we look at the economy and say it's affect on making both parents work these days has diminished a parents influence on a childs work ethic?

I don't think so. A lot of the problems are where you have a stay at home parent (or even two) and they don't value education beyond simple ideas. Have you ever been to the mid west?

[King Postwhore]

Can we look at the economy and say it's affect on making both parents work these days has diminished a parents influence on a childs work ethic?

I don't think so. A lot of the problems are where you have a stay at home parent (or even two) and they don't value education beyond simple ideas. Have you ever been to the mid west?

But that's now Adami.  Mabye the erosion has started years ago.  I have friends that can do this because the husband has a great job and the mom takes great intrest in their 3 childrens welfare and the children are tops in their class right now.  We as adults have got lazy.  Mabye I'm wrong here but I think it may be a little part of the puzzle.

[Adami]

Well obviously the reason the parents are dumb is from way back when. But it's still a problem, I doubt it has much to do with both parents working, as it does many parents not being very educated themselves or valuing an education beyond "getting a job to support us all".

[King Postwhore]

I think you understood what I was saying.  When one parent stays home their primary job is to bring up the children, mold them and in todays society, when both have to work, come home, cook the meal. It's 8 pm and that's a bad cycle. No real time for the child in this busy world we live in now.  I'm not saying it's the main reason but a piece of the pie.

[Adami]

I think you understood what I was saying.  When one parent stays home their primary job is to bring up the children, mold them and in todays society, when both have to work, come home, cook the meal. It's 8 pm and that's a bad cycle. No real time for the child in this busy world we live in now.  I'm not saying it's the main reason but a piece of the pie.

But what about boarding schools? No parents there, kids seem to at least learn just fine.

[King Postwhore]

I think you understood what I was saying.  When one parent stays home their primary job is to bring up the children, mold them and in todays society, when both have to work, come home, cook the meal. It's 8 pm and that's a bad cycle. No real time for the child in this busy world we live in now.  I'm not saying it's the main reason but a piece of the pie.

But what about boarding schools? No parents there, kids seem to at least learn just fine.

Higher education is very strick wich lends to my point about one parent being home.  i tend to think that a parent will push(in a gentle way) to be better.  Those schools if you mess up your done where as you can float by in public schools.  I think it boils down to more attention for the child.

[Adami]

I think a good parent at home is extremely benificial. But just ANY parent at home isn't necessarily a good thing.

[King Postwhore]

I think a good parent at home is extremely benificial. But just ANY parent at home isn't necessarily a good thing.

Oh I agree, I've seen it first hand.