Author Topic: Do you believe the woman is the homemaker and the man is the breadwinner?  (Read 17589 times)

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Offline eric42434224

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There is good and bad to both ways
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Offline j

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No. Sure, there are some biological and social leanings toward those things, but it can all change easily.

Does TDoL own a whip, by any chance?

Generally not.  It's hard not to notice that the genders are built for different roles.  However,  I don't think there's any reason that people should be pigeon-holed into assigned roles because of silly societal expectations. 

Those.

However, I think a woman can do anything a man can do just as well.

I don't think this (or the reverse) is necessarily true.  Like others have said, it depends on the individuals.  It's probably best that each "play to their strengths", so to speak, and often those strengths are partially sculpted by biology and socialization.

My wife (got married Thursday) and I are currently both breadlosers.  Tough to get by in this situation, let me tell you.

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Offline ogrejedi

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Well, technically, the Man is physically stronger.  It's science, not opinion.

What if the couple consists of a physically weak male and a physically strong female? It happens sometimes.
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Offline icysk8r

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Well, technically, the Man is physically stronger.  It's science, not opinion.

What if the couple consists of a physically weak male and a physically strong female? It happens sometimes.
That's what I'm saying.  I'm not saying in two individuals they are both equal and can do the same things each other can do.  I'm making a generalization that the female population can do most if not all what a man can do, and same with the reverse.
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Offline Jamesman42

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I do believe the man should be "the man" (aka breadwinner, head of the household, etc.) and the woman should be his supporter, homemaker. Yes, it's based off my faith.

So, before I get flamed (I assume), I'm NOT saying women are inferior to men. I believe what I do because I believe it's what God intended. It's not an issue of physical proportions so much as it is knowing your role in this life as a man or woman. I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.

There are some Bible verses to back up some of what I am saying, and I want to reexamine them because it's been a while since I've looked at that part of Scripture.

Online hefdaddy42

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I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.
I know a lot of Christians who don't.
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Offline eric42434224

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I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.
I know a lot of Christians who don't.


There are many discussions of the bible here, and in them there are certain points of view held by some that some say are supported by the bible.  Things dealing with homosexuality for example, and here regarding the role of women.  It is positions like these that do not allow me to consider the bible as divine, or divinely inspired.  They simply go against what I feel in my heart is true, right, equal, and just.
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Offline 73109

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There are many discussions of the bible here, and in them there are certain points of view held by some that some say are supported by the bible.  Things dealing with homosexuality for example, and here regarding the role of women.  It is positions like these that do not allow me to consider the bible as divine, or divinely inspired.  They simply go against what I feel in my heart is true, right, equal, and just.

This. Oh so this.

Offline yeshaberto

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There are many discussions of the bible here, and in them there are certain points of view held by some that some say are supported by the bible.  Things dealing with homosexuality for example, and here regarding the role of women.  It is positions like these that do not allow me to consider the bible as divine, or divinely inspired.  They simply go against what I feel in my heart is true, right, equal, and just.

This. Oh so this.

without touching on the questions you highlighted, if the bible is really the creators message to us, how I 'feel in my heart" is beside the point.  I have wrong feelings all the time.  I would encourage you to reject the divine message on evidence rather than on feelings.

Offline CountVoorhees

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I need to stop posting in threads that I won't care about later.

Offline 73109

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There are many discussions of the bible here, and in them there are certain points of view held by some that some say are supported by the bible.  Things dealing with homosexuality for example, and here regarding the role of women.  It is positions like these that do not allow me to consider the bible as divine, or divinely inspired.  They simply go against what I feel in my heart is true, right, equal, and just.

This. Oh so this.

without touching on the questions you highlighted, if the bible is really the creators message to us, how I 'feel in my heart" is beside the point.  I have wrong feelings all the time.  I would encourage you to reject the divine message on evidence rather than on feelings.

Lets go stone gays because god tells us to.

Yeah...no.

Offline eric42434224

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There are many discussions of the bible here, and in them there are certain points of view held by some that some say are supported by the bible.  Things dealing with homosexuality for example, and here regarding the role of women.  It is positions like these that do not allow me to consider the bible as divine, or divinely inspired.  They simply go against what I feel in my heart is true, right, equal, and just.

This. Oh so this.

without touching on the questions you highlighted, if the bible is really the creators message to us, how I 'feel in my heart" is beside the point.  I have wrong feelings all the time.  I would encourage you to reject the divine message on evidence rather than on feelings.


I have never seen "evidence" for or against it being divine, so I cant take that into consideration

EDIT: And they arent just "feelings"...they are basic principles on which I live my life.  Love and Equality to name a few.  A god that doesnt have those as a cornerstone of his "word" is not something I want to be a part of.  It is moot wether or not the bible is divine, as it isnt something I want to be associated with, divine or not, if it goes against my principles.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 11:28:59 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline yeshaberto

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thanks for the clarification, eric...principles are more reliable than feelings IMO

Online Adami

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thanks for the clarification, eric...principles are more reliable than feelings IMO

Are you saying that we should decide how to live our lives based off of evidence? Or that unless we can prove god doesn't exist, we should live by the bibles laws, no matter how little sense they make?
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Offline yeshaberto

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I wasn't referring to either in my response to Eric...

I am saying that we should accept/reject the scriptures based on evidence.
Because I am convinced that the scriptures are the words of the creator, I live by them despite how little sense they make.  In reality, though, the more I study them and experience life, I find that the things that "feel" like they don't make sense are actually perfectly clear.

Online Adami

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I wasn't referring to either in my response to Eric...

I am saying that we should accept/reject the scriptures based on evidence.
Because I am convinced that the scriptures are the words of the creator, I live by them despite how little sense they make.  In reality, though, the more I study them and experience life, I find that the things that "feel" like they don't make sense are actually perfectly clear.

Oh I know, sorry, I just quoted the most recent quote by you. Anyway, are you saying this on a case by case basis? Or an all or nothing deal?
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Offline yeshaberto

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sorry, still not sure what you are referring to/asking

Offline 73109

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I wasn't referring to either in my response to Eric...

I am saying that we should accept/reject the scriptures based on evidence.
Because I am convinced that the scriptures are the words of the creator, I live by them despite how little sense they make.  In reality, though, the more I study them and experience life, I find that the things that "feel" like they don't make sense are actually perfectly clear.

How is treating your women like shit, stoning your kids when they are drunkards, and stoning men who had sex with other men "clear" and moral?

Online Adami

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sorry, still not sure what you are referring to/asking

I'm not sure how I could make it more clear, but I'll try.


Let's veiw the bible as a collection of laws and morals (obviously amongst other things). Are you saying that we should examine each of these independently and decide if we will or will not live by them based on evidence found in life? Or is it an all or nothing deal, meaning that if you can't disprove all of them, you have to follow all of them.
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Offline yeshaberto

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oh, gotcha now  :P

yes and no.

the tanach is for the nation of Israel.  it was a theocracy that God designed specifically to usher in the messianic promise he made to abraham in Gen 12.  while there are principles of that covenant of Israel that are universal (ie. do not murder, covet, commit adultery, etc), that covenant was not for anyone except the nation of Israel.  it is full of sacrificial laws, judicial laws that related to their economy, etc.  while I love the tanach and learn many things from it, there is nothing in it that I live by except as it is demonstrated in the covenant of the messiah. 
so, no, there are no laws in that covenant for me because I am not of the nation of Israel and because I believe they have already been fulfilled in the messiah.

as for the covenant of the Messiah, yes.  everything in it is for me as a follower of the messiah.  If I don't understand it, I still need to follow it.  In reality, the covenant of the Messiah is distinctly different from the covenant of Israel because one is based on rules for a nation and the other is based on principles for an individual.



Online Adami

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Yes, I know the standard view. But I don't see how what you just said has anything at all to do with what you were talking about before.
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Offline Dark Master Of Sin

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I would be a far worse person had my mom not been a stay at home mom. I think it should be that way, but, I don't think the women are the "weaker" sex, or their role is any less important. I think raising children is equally as hard as a good amount of jobs.
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Offline yeshaberto

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Yes, I know the standard view. But I don't see how what you just said has anything at all to do with what you were talking about before.

if you are talking about feelings being a standard to determine truth, that is just what I have learned in my life.  many things felt like they were good or bad, but it did not necessarily reflect reality.  evidence is what reflects reality.  a good murder mystery leads you to "feel" like everyone in the story is a suspect, but in the end you learn the evidence and find out it was the last guy you would've expected

Offline 73109

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Again I quote:

How is treating your women like shit, stoning your kids when they are drunkards, and stoning men who had sex with other men "clear" and moral?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 08:28:59 PM by 73109 »

Online Adami

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Yes, I know the standard view. But I don't see how what you just said has anything at all to do with what you were talking about before.

if you are talking about feelings being a standard to determine truth, that is just what I have learned in my life.  many things felt like they were good or bad, but it did not necessarily reflect reality.  evidence is what reflects reality.  a good murder mystery leads you to "feel" like everyone in the story is a suspect, but in the end you learn the evidence and find out it was the last guy you would've expected

So if I have evidence of one thing, but the bible says the opposite, I should trust the evidence over the bible?

Sorry, I'm just trying to follow you.
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Offline yeshaberto

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good question...


can you give me an example of evidence that defies the covenant of the messiah?

Online Adami

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good question...


can you give me an example of evidence that defies the covenant of the messiah?


Well, I am not extremely familiar with the specific laws jesus spoke about. I consider paul to be worthless, so I have no desire to argue about anything he preached. But since I'm a jew, I guess I could use the tanach for this one.

I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality. I see evidence that they generally lead fine healthy life styles and are fine people and thus have no reason to think it's bad in the slightest bit.
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Offline 73109

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Again I quote:

How is treating your women like shit, stoning your kids when they are drunkards, and stoning men who had sex with other men "clear" and moral?

Online Adami

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Again I quote:

How is treating your women like shit, stoning your kids when they are drunkards, and stoning men who had sex with other men "clear" and moral?

Just so you can stop quoting yourself, no one here believes the laws of the tanach should be upheld. If you want to replace those with instances from Jesus or ....eh....paullll.....then that would make more sense here. All of the christians abandoned that, and none of the jews are that insane.
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Offline Seventh Son

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I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.
I know a lot of Christians who don't.
I'm not a Christian and I don't agree with it. I won't lie here, I'm not exactly the words biggest risk taker. I don't care to be one. I usually "play it safe" if you will. I'm just not the type of person to dive head-first into things without thinking. Call it a lack of balls if you want, idgaf

That being said, I like being around people like that. I just don't care to be that type of person myself. So a female partner like that would be ideal for me, personally. And I have no interest in having children either, so the whole "who takes care of the kids thing" won't ever come up!  :)
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Offline rumborak

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I do believe the man should be "the man" (aka breadwinner, head of the household, etc.) and the woman should be his supporter, homemaker. Yes, it's based off my faith.

So, before I get flamed (I assume), I'm NOT saying women are inferior to men. I believe what I do because I believe it's what God intended. It's not an issue of physical proportions so much as it is knowing your role in this life as a man or woman. I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.

There are some Bible verses to back up some of what I am saying, and I want to reexamine them because it's been a while since I've looked at that part of Scripture.

Can I ask you something personal here? In this specific case, do you really have the impression the Bible is making you a better person? I mean, I take it you know there are strong women, and there are weak men, who would live a life or misery in your scheme.

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Offline Zoom E

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I've been reading so much in the media lately about how gender roles are gradually being reversed. Girls are doing so much better in school than boys, and, as stated in the article linked to below, women are more successful than men in the new knowledge-based economy. I don't for a minute think that a complete reversal of roles will happen, as is suggested in this article as a possibility, but it's interesting to contemplate.

https://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Economics+drives+revolution+roles+Will+able+handle/3265407/story.html

Offline Jamesman42

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I do believe the man should be "the man" (aka breadwinner, head of the household, etc.) and the woman should be his supporter, homemaker. Yes, it's based off my faith.

So, before I get flamed (I assume), I'm NOT saying women are inferior to men. I believe what I do because I believe it's what God intended. It's not an issue of physical proportions so much as it is knowing your role in this life as a man or woman. I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.

There are some Bible verses to back up some of what I am saying, and I want to reexamine them because it's been a while since I've looked at that part of Scripture.

Can I ask you something personal here? In this specific case, do you really have the impression the Bible is making you a better person? I mean, I take it you know there are strong women, and there are weak men, who would live a life or misery in your scheme.

rumborak


Do you mean strong/ weak physically?

Offline El JoNNo

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I do believe the man should be "the man" (aka breadwinner, head of the household, etc.) and the woman should be his supporter, homemaker. Yes, it's based off my faith.

So, before I get flamed (I assume), I'm NOT saying women are inferior to men. I believe what I do because I believe it's what God intended. It's not an issue of physical proportions so much as it is knowing your role in this life as a man or woman. I know many won't agree with this, but I know a lot of Christians who do agree with this.

There are some Bible verses to back up some of what I am saying, and I want to reexamine them because it's been a while since I've looked at that part of Scripture.

Can I ask you something personal here? In this specific case, do you really have the impression the Bible is making you a better person? I mean, I take it you know there are strong women, and there are weak men, who would live a life or misery in your scheme.

rumborak


Do you mean strong/ weak physically?

Don't mean to interject; but what would it matter? If you are doing a task that you are weak at in anyway and it is making you miserable than is there really a difference? Not really.

Offline kirbywelch92

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I'm just going to ignore everything said thus far and say this:

When I'm married, it's not my home, it's OUR home.
It's not my children, it's OUR children.
It's not my dinner, it's OUR dinner.
As far as I'm concerned, how those things become OURS is not really relevant to me (except the children of course :neverusethis:).