Grunge Discussion (Poll as well)

[wolfking]

What ages do you classify as 'youngsters?'

For purposes of this thread - people not old enough to have been fans of grunge when it was being produced.

Oh okay, then I do not classify as one.

[bodiesinflight]

1. Pearl Jam
2. Nirvana

3. Alice in Chains
4. Soundgarden























5. Stone Temple Pilots

[Birch Boy]

No, Bush wasn't a grunge band.

This just in: neither was STP.

lol youngsters.

Yeah I know STP isn't really grunge (No. 4 is though), but like I said, I used the big five that are commonly referred to as grunge hence why grunge appears as 'grunge' in the poll question).

What ages do you classify as 'youngsters?'

For purposes of this thread - people not old enough to have been fans of grunge when it was being produced.

So I would be one 

[hefdaddy42]

No, Bush wasn't a grunge band.

This just in: neither was STP.

lol youngsters.

Yeah I know STP isn't really grunge (No. 4 is though), but like I said, I used the big five that are commonly referred to as grunge hence why grunge appears as 'grunge' in the poll question).

Since when is STP "commonly referred to as grunge"?  Back when all this was happening, they got a lot of flak for being "grunge imitators."  No one thought of them as grunge.

[Birch Boy]

No, Bush wasn't a grunge band.

This just in: neither was STP.

lol youngsters.

Yeah I know STP isn't really grunge (No. 4 is though), but like I said, I used the big five that are commonly referred to as grunge hence why grunge appears as 'grunge' in the poll question).

Since when is STP "commonly referred to as grunge"?  Back when all this was happening, they got a lot of flak for being "grunge imitators."  No one thought of them as grunge.

https://www.90srockers.com/top5.php
https://www.spirit-of-metal.com/liste_groupe-indexStyle-Grunge-l-en.html
https://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/listoftheday/128290/the-25-best-grunge-bands/

Stone Temple Pilots appears in all of those lists, plus they're listed as grunge on their Wikipedia page

[73109]

The way I look at it, they are right in between the grunge boom and the Post-Grunge boom. Call them what you want. If we are getting into Post-Grunge now, Creed is the best them!

[nakedman]

1- AiC
2-Peal Jam
3-Soundgarden
4-Failure

[hefdaddy42]

No, Bush wasn't a grunge band.

This just in: neither was STP.

lol youngsters.

Yeah I know STP isn't really grunge (No. 4 is though), but like I said, I used the big five that are commonly referred to as grunge hence why grunge appears as 'grunge' in the poll question).

Since when is STP "commonly referred to as grunge"?  Back when all this was happening, they got a lot of flak for being "grunge imitators."  No one thought of them as grunge.

https://www.90srockers.com/top5.php
https://www.spirit-of-metal.com/liste_groupe-indexStyle-Grunge-l-en.html
https://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/listoftheday/128290/the-25-best-grunge-bands/

Stone Temple Pilots appears in all of those lists, plus they're listed as grunge on their Wikipedia page

All of those lists are wrong, and I didn't see it on the Wikipedia page.  It calls them a "rock" band, and even mentions the shit they got for being "grunge imitators."

A lot of people group "alternative 90s" rock in with grunge, but that's not the way it was.  The grunge movement was very much a Seattle thing.

[CrimsonSunrise]

IF this was '94  (Cause I thought they ALL faded after that) I would say "Band/Best Album"

1. Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger
2. Pearl Jam - Ten
3. STP - Core
4. AiC - Dirt

Nirvana wouldn't even make my list.....seriously the most overrated band ever IMHO.  I was recently watching "The 7 ages of Rock" on VH1, and was thoroughly disgusted that they spent the whole Alt/Grunge hour on Nirvana.

Honorable mentions too....

Mother Love Bone
Screaming Trees

[Birch Boy]

No, Bush wasn't a grunge band.

This just in: neither was STP.

lol youngsters.

Yeah I know STP isn't really grunge (No. 4 is though), but like I said, I used the big five that are commonly referred to as grunge hence why grunge appears as 'grunge' in the poll question).

Since when is STP "commonly referred to as grunge"?  Back when all this was happening, they got a lot of flak for being "grunge imitators."  No one thought of them as grunge.

https://www.90srockers.com/top5.php
https://www.spirit-of-metal.com/liste_groupe-indexStyle-Grunge-l-en.html
https://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/listoftheday/128290/the-25-best-grunge-bands/

Stone Temple Pilots appears in all of those lists, plus they're listed as grunge on their Wikipedia page

All of those lists are wrong, and I didn't see it on the Wikipedia page.  It calls them a "rock" band, and even mentions the shit they got for being "grunge imitators."

A lot of people group "alternative 90s" rock in with grunge, but that's not the way it was.  The grunge movement was very much a Seattle thing.

Well the lists being wrong is your opinion when it comes to ranking (if that's what you're saying is wrong), and that's besides the point. The point is is that they're commonly referred to as grunge. I'm not arguing if they're grunge or not, I'm saying that they're commonly referred to as it, nor am I arguing the validity of the lists. Look under the picture on their Wikipedia page and you'll see grunge listed as one of their genres.

[Gadough]

Alice in Chains by a country mile. Pearl Jam is awesome too, but nowhere close to Alice.

[Birch Boy]

Stone Temple Pilots' Purple is probably my favorite STP record, at least at the moment.

[Birch Boy]

Soundgarden in HD @ Lollapalooza 2010 - Rusty Cage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0jxLyurCbU

They are touring Australia in early 2011, so I'm assuming they'll tour the States sometime within the next year, so I am excite!

Active classic grunge bands to see:

Alice In Chains
Stone Temple Pilots (seeing next month)
Soundgarden (definitely seeing them when they come around next year)
Pearl Jam (might see next tour, whenever that'll be. Gotta get more of their stuff)

[PixelDream]

Pearl Jam
Soundgarden
Nirvana

Haven't heard enough STP and AIC (apart from their acoustic stuff) to judge.

And I really like Nevermind. It's just a good rock record filled with good songs. Nothing wrong with it.

[The King in Crimson]

Soundgarden in HD @ Lollapalooza 2010 - Rusty Cage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0jxLyurCbU

They are touring Australia in early 2011, so I'm assuming they'll tour the States sometime within the next year, so I am excite!

I... I really wish that I had been able to see them during Lolla.

Hopefully, I'll get a chance when they tour around here.

[ScioPath]

Soundgarden 

[73109]

Alice In Chains 2x
Stone Temple Pilots
Soundgarden
Pearl Jam x3

Sorry. I had to.

[Birch Boy]

Alice In Chains 2x
Stone Temple Pilots
Soundgarden
Pearl Jam x3

Sorry. I had to.

YOU AND YOUR... YOUR... NUMBERS!

[73109]

Love ya Birch!

[Birch Boy]

[bosk1]

Honorable mentions too....

Mother Love Bone

(...but not really grunge)

[Fluffy Lothario]

Listened to In Utero twice today. Damn good album.

[jammindude]

BUMP OF THE DECADE!!!!

Since my comment about grunge in the “bands you only love one album from” thread was off topic, I figured I would move it to the relevant thread.


Being at ground zero as it all went down...the difference between local mentality and national mentality on this never ceases to blow my mind.

Nevermind is really good, but I consider it to be their least work, and least representative of the Seattle sound. Bleach was a better representation....but Kurt was also nudged into the direction of other SubPop artists that were creating the buzz at the time. He ended up doing a great job of representing the Seattle sound, but it wasn’t really the album he wanted to make. In Utero IMO was Kurt’s masterpiece and the album he always wanted to make. It would have been easy to phone in another Nevermind, but he didn’t do that and I feel like the album is far better for it.

Mudhoney is still the greatest representation of what got everyone in the area buzzing and flocking to the clubs, and on the rare occasion they play a local show, it sells out so fast that it’s hard to get in. Heck...the lead singer invented the term grunge.

But at the end of the day, Soundgarden was always my personal favorite and could almost do no wrong. EDIT - but Soundgarden isn’t really grunge either...though they borrowed just enough of that “dirty” sound to definitely give themselves a Seattle flavor.

[jammindude]

Additionally....if I could describe what it was ACTUALLY like in the Seattle grunge scene with just one single video...THIS is it. This is the sound that got kids buzzing. This is what it looked like in the clubs. And notice that all videos are time stamped pre-Nevermind.

https://youtu.be/_nGsT_qFMBs

[HOF]

Additionally....if I could describe what it was ACTUALLY like in the Seattle grunge scene with just one single video...THIS is it. This is the sound that got kids buzzing. This is what it looked like in the clubs. And notice that all videos are time stamped pre-Nevermind.

https://youtu.be/_nGsT_qFMBs

If you were around Seattle in those days, curious if you were familiar with Bam Bam/Tina Bell. I read this article about her recently, which dubbed her the Godmother of Grunge. Thought it was an interesting read at least. Apparently Kurt Cobain was a roadie for the band at one point. Matt Cameron was the original drummer too.

https://zora.medium.com/the-black-mother-of-grunge-who-inspired-nirvana-95886f21eccc

[jammindude]

Additionally....if I could describe what it was ACTUALLY like in the Seattle grunge scene with just one single video...THIS is it. This is the sound that got kids buzzing. This is what it looked like in the clubs. And notice that all videos are time stamped pre-Nevermind.

https://youtu.be/_nGsT_qFMBs

If you were around Seattle in those days, curious if you were familiar with Bam Bam/Tina Bell. I read this article about her recently, which dubbed her the Godmother of Grunge. Thought it was an interesting read at least. Apparently Kurt Cobain was a roadie for the band at one point. Matt Cameron was the original drummer too.

https://zora.medium.com/the-black-mother-of-grunge-who-inspired-nirvana-95886f21eccc

This is amazing.   No....I had not heard of them, and that is a shame.    I will say upfront that I was a kid in the suburbs when all of this was going down.   I knew more about what was going on than most of my peers did, just because I hung around record stores, and most of them didn't.   I was too young to go to clubs downtown because my parents were extremely conservative (though I did see Soundgarden headline the Louder than Love tour in Feb 1990 which was an AMAZING show).

Short version, I knew more about the scene than most other suburb kids...but not nearly as much as the city kids.     And to be honest, I probably appreciate the entire genre more now than I did then.   I liked it then (but was more into the growing thrash movement) but grew to love it later as I got to appreciate what a cultural shift it was, and how well it represented the disenchantment we were all feeling at the time.

[HOF]

Additionally....if I could describe what it was ACTUALLY like in the Seattle grunge scene with just one single video...THIS is it. This is the sound that got kids buzzing. This is what it looked like in the clubs. And notice that all videos are time stamped pre-Nevermind.

https://youtu.be/_nGsT_qFMBs

If you were around Seattle in those days, curious if you were familiar with Bam Bam/Tina Bell. I read this article about her recently, which dubbed her the Godmother of Grunge. Thought it was an interesting read at least. Apparently Kurt Cobain was a roadie for the band at one point. Matt Cameron was the original drummer too.

https://zora.medium.com/the-black-mother-of-grunge-who-inspired-nirvana-95886f21eccc

This is amazing.   No....I had not heard of them, and that is a shame.    I will say upfront that I was a kid in the suburbs when all of this was going down.   I knew more about what was going on than most of my peers did, just because I hung around record stores, and most of them didn't.   I was too young to go to clubs downtown because my parents were extremely conservative (though I did see Soundgarden headline the Louder than Love tour in Feb 1990 which was an AMAZING show).

Short version, I knew more about the scene than most other suburb kids...but not nearly as much as the city kids.     And to be honest, I probably appreciate the entire genre more now than I did then.   I liked it then (but was more into the growing thrash movement) but grew to love it later as I got to appreciate what a cultural shift it was, and how well it represented the disenchantment we were all feeling at the time.

Gotcha. I had a similar experience with grunge. It was kind of my oldest brother’s thing at the time, and while I grew up liking a lot of it, it want “my” music so I kind of shied away from it until the late 2000s. I’m mostly just a fan of Pearl Jam from that scene, though I do like select stuff from AIC and Soundgarden. Never got into Nirvana at all really.

I do also really like The Smashing Pumpkins. Not Seattle based but came out of that Sub Pop scene.

[Stadler]

Even from day one - East Coast Day One, which was the release of "Ten" by Pearl Jam (about two weeks before Nevermind) - I always felt and still do that there was resentment - even if unspoken - towards Kurt Cobain, and while I would never go as far as to say it led to or even contributed to his suicide, some of his prickly and antisocial behavior was related to that "guilt" (in quotes because I can't guess what he was feeling; it could have been something else) for being the poster-boy for something he wasn't really a part of, not at it's core.   I'm not the hugest fan of Eddie Vedder now (preachy, much?) but I thought he handled it really well, being the newcomer and getting attention when guys like Mark Arm, and Andy Wood and Chris Cornell weren't.

It's why I have a special place in my heart for Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament, who were there at the beginning (Green River, who I actually do like a fair amount, even though Mother Love Bone is my favorite Seattle band by a long shot).

[TAC]

Stadler, I've read your post three times, and I'm not sure about something. When you mention "resent" and Kurt Cobain....what do you mean?

[jammindude]

I like PJ....but I guess I resent Vedder a bit for taking over the band. I forget if it was Stone or Jeff, but one of them said that somewhere around No Code or Yield, it was starting to come apart due to internal friction and they had to decide whether to break up or “become Eddie’s backing band”...they opted for the latter. He makes it sound as if it’s not very collaborative anymore.

I always felt AIC were grossly overrated (and I prefer Facelift over Dirt) what I’ve heard from the recent albums with the new lead singer has really impressed me, and I’m seriously wanting to pick up Rainier Fog.

[Stadler]

Stadler, I've read your post three times, and I'm not sure about something. When you mention "resent" and Kurt Cobain....what do you mean?

Well, and all this is a guess, because I wasn't there, but the vibe was always very collegial, very open.  There was never much of that "oh THAT music sucks" or "oh, we're better than THAT!".   Yeah, Soundgarden lampooned the hair metal dudes with "Big Dumb Sex", but they all sort of acknowledged their debt to Sabbath and Kiss and the metal that came before them.  There was always a sort of vibe with Cobain that he was better than everyone around him. 

The resentment comes in from that.  Cornell and Pearl Jam all appeared together in movies; Cornell lived with Andy Wood; AiC had Cornell and Mark Arm (Mudhoney, Green River) on their acoustic EP; when Andy died, they not only mourned him, the went in and made an entire friggin' record (Temple Of The Dog).   I could be wrong, but I got no real sense of deep remorse, of "losing one of our own" when Cobain died.  Other than Jason Everman, who played in each band for about 12 minutes each, there was no sharing of members or anything like that; Cobain/Nirvana were off on their own, and only really seemed to represent the grunge scene from a distance.   I think the people in Seattle are far too... sensitive to ever come out and say it, but I think any of those bands - MLB, PJ, SG, MH, AIC - would have preferred if one of the others in that group got the golden ring and not Nirvana.

[EPICVIEW]

Im enjoying this thread

[Stadler]

I like PJ....but I guess I resent Vedder a bit for taking over the band. I forget if it was Stone or Jeff, but one of them said that somewhere around No Code or Yield, it was starting to come apart due to internal friction and they had to decide whether to break up or “become Eddie’s backing band”...they opted for the latter. He makes it sound as if it’s not very collaborative anymore.

I always felt AIC were grossly overrated (and I prefer Facelift over Dirt) what I’ve heard from the recent albums with the new lead singer has really impressed me, and I’m seriously wanting to pick up Rainier Fog.

That was Stone, and he said it again in the "20" documentary (which is excellent, by the way).  The band started as Jeff and Stone's thing (Arm left Green River in part because he thought Gossard and Ament - in particular - were too "success" oriented) and they had a decision to make as you wrote.  It's no coincidence that while I have most of their albums, I much prefer the earlier stuff.  The debut is still my favorite.  The only latter day record that even comes close is Yield.

[TAC]

I like PJ....but I guess I resent Vedder a bit for taking over the band. I forget if it was Stone or Jeff, but one of them said that somewhere around No Code or Yield, it was starting to come apart due to internal friction and they had to decide whether to break up or “become Eddie’s backing band”...they opted for the latter. He makes it sound as if it’s not very collaborative anymore.

I think when you have a singer that is so identifiable, that's just how it is. You've got the creative (Stone/Gossard) and the signature (Vedder).


Joe Perry in is extremely boring autobiography basically said the same in how Aerosmith goes. It's Tyler's show, and Perry knows it.

The tugging going on on GnR's UYI albums is the same thing.

Stadler, I've read your post three times, and I'm not sure about something. When you mention "resent" and Kurt Cobain....what do you mean?

Well, and all this is a guess, because I wasn't there, but the vibe was always very collegial, very open.  There was never much of that "oh THAT music sucks" or "oh, we're better than THAT!".   Yeah, Soundgarden lampooned the hair metal dudes with "Big Dumb Sex", but they all sort of acknowledged their debt to Sabbath and Kiss and the metal that came before them.  There was always a sort of vibe with Cobain that he was better than everyone around him. 

The resentment comes in from that.  Cornell and Pearl Jam all appeared together in movies; Cornell lived with Andy Wood; AiC had Cornell and Mark Arm (Mudhoney, Green River) on their acoustic EP; when Andy died, they not only mourned him, the went in and made an entire friggin' record (Temple Of The Dog).   I could be wrong, but I got no real sense of deep remorse, of "losing one of our own" when Cobain died.  Other than Jason Everman, who played in each band for about 12 minutes each, there was no sharing of members or anything like that; Cobain/Nirvana were off on their own, and only really seemed to represent the grunge scene from a distance.   I think the people in Seattle are far too... sensitive to ever come out and say it, but I think any of those bands - MLB, PJ, SG, MH, AIC - would have preferred if one of the others in that group got the golden ring and not Nirvana.

I just don't think Cobain represented what PJ and Soundgarden were all about. Those were rock bands, stripped down metal bands in style and look.

Cobain seemed more punkish, who just happened to break through with the right song at the right time. At least Cornell and the Pearl Jam guys persevered. Cobain just got lucky.

[WildRanger]

AIC is undoubtedly my favorite grunge band. And Dirt is easily my favorite grunge album.

I would rank those 5 grunge bands:
1. AIC (fav album: Dirt)
2. Pearl Jam (fav album: Ten)
3. Soundgarden (fav album: Badmotorfinger)
4. Stone Temple Pilots (fav album: Purple)

5. Nirvana (fav album: Bleach)