Author Topic: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity  (Read 28541 times)

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2009, 03:44:49 PM »
If you fight a fight on your own, like AMERICA (the continent) did. I'm cool with that. They wanted emancipation and by themselves they did it.

If you fight for independence with the UN covering your back, that's a complete different issue.

...But we did.  Several times.  Just the Arabs can't accept that they lost.  Several times.

And actually the word you're looking for is independence, not emancipation.
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Offline AndyDT

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2009, 03:47:56 PM »
I'm not saying I have a solution.  Just saying I can certainly understand the position of those who feel they shouldn't be there.  I agree.  They shouldn't be.  However, now that they are, and you have people who are established there and just trying to live out their lives, kicking them out is also problematic.  The UN never should have stuck its nose where it doesn't belong and has created a huge mess that, probably, nobody can sort out.  If a compromise cannot be worked out mutually between the groups involved (and history has shown us this is not a realistic possibility in the foreseeable future), there is little any outside force can do to make everybody happy.  It's a shame, really.  I feel for those who are caught up in the strife this has caused.

Hang on Bosk. Who's "they"? If you mean Jews then they've been there a lot longer than Israel.

Offline MetalMike06

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2009, 05:18:55 PM »
The problem I see is that Palestinian Jews (Jews that have actually, ancestrally inhabited Palestine for over two millennia) only constitute fraction of today's Israeli population. Diaspora Jews artificially migrating there en masse and uprooting Arabs to create an almost exclusively Jewish state doesn't really seem fair, in my view, and it shouldn't be wrong for a Palestinian Arab to feel jipped. The Muslims, Jews, Christians that lived there all seemed to get along fine prior to 1948. That's not to say I am necessarily "anti-Israel". I personally don't mind the mere existence of Israel (I don't really have any historic connection to that land so it's not really my prerogative however it turns out) but I'm just saying if I was in an Arab's shoes, then hostile feelings seem inevitable.

Note that when I refer to "Palestine" I don't mean it in the sense of a formal country but just to describe the western Levant region in general.

Offline emindead

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2009, 05:26:05 PM »
If you fight a fight on your own, like AMERICA (the continent) did. I'm cool with that. They wanted emancipation and by themselves they did it.

If you fight for independence with the UN covering your back, that's a complete different issue.
And actually the word you're looking for is independence, not emancipation.
In Spanish we use both "Emancipación e Independencia". I didn't know there was that vast difference in meanings from "emancipación" to "emancipation".

But anyway.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2009, 06:01:53 PM »
The problem I see is that Palestinian Jews (Jews that have actually, ancestrally inhabited Palestine for over two millennia) only constitute fraction of today's Israeli population. Diaspora Jews artificially migrating there en masse and uprooting Arabs to create an almost exclusively Jewish state doesn't really seem fair, in my view, and it shouldn't be wrong for a Palestinian Arab to feel jipped. The Muslims, Jews, Christians that lived there all seemed to get along fine prior to 1948. That's not to say I am necessarily "anti-Israel". I personally don't mind the mere existence of Israel (I don't really have any historic connection to that land so it's not really my prerogative however it turns out) but I'm just saying if I was in an Arab's shoes, then hostile feelings seem inevitable.

Note that when I refer to "Palestine" I don't mean it in the sense of a formal country but just to describe the western Levant region in general.

We don't want an exclusively Jewish state...well, the non-Orthodox of us don't anyway.  The problem is the Arabs don't want us to be there at all.  As for what you were saying about indigenous Jews in the Levant, they may have been a small population, but they were much larger than the Arab population of the time.  Most of those who were uprooted in the 1940s had migrated there from elsewhere in the 50 years preceding, whereas the indigenous Jewish presence has been there at least since the Diaspora began in 60 CE.  And those ancestors were there even before, when there was a kingdom of Israel.  Basically, there has not been a time when Israel wasn't essentially a Jewish state, even if not in name.

Actually, on that note, fun fact: the region known as Israel/Palestine today did not exist as a state until 1948.  It was a region known as the Levant that, apart from being a "region," essentially did not "exist."  At various points it was part of Syria and the Ottoman Empire, but it was never an independent sovereign state between the beginning of Diaspora in 60 CE and 1948.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 06:07:10 PM by Super Dude »
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2009, 07:48:25 PM »
"Brown people" includes Israel which once again shows how misleading it can be to label things with colours.

 Israelis are more white than Semitic.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2009, 07:54:05 PM »
Cripes, what history have you been reading?  We're the original Semites.  Sure, we've lived among white people long enough that we've begun to look like them, but genetically we're still Semitic.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2009, 08:00:44 PM »
Cripes, what history have you been reading?  We're the original Semites.  Sure, we've lived among white people long enough that we've begun to look like them, but genetically we're still Semitic.

 You look more white then Semitic. Seems like you're genetically more white than Semitic. Only nazi nerds can tell the difference.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2009, 08:15:48 PM »
Ouch.  What are you implying there, ack?

And let's get one thing straight: not all Jews are white.  In fact, we're not even completely white, and even if we were, we're not Europeans.  I know what you've been trying to suggest, that we're a product of the West.  You're wrong, completely wrong.  The Jews are from the Middle East, same as the Arabs.  We came from Israel, and we came back.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2009, 08:24:34 PM »
 No, I am simply referring to appearance and that 'brown' doesn't really apply to modern day Jewish people. Besides, non-Semitic people can covert to Judaism and join the crew, so it's not really a racial thing.

 My question is; what does Netanyahoo exactly mean when he demands for Israel to be recognized as a 'Jewish state'?

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2009, 08:35:21 PM »
Well Netanyahu is a nut, I'm a little more center than him.  I haven't been in the loop about this Jewish state business though (coming from him, anyway) so I couldn't tell ya.

As for the conversion thing, people can convert to the Jewish religion, but it takes a few generations for someone to become a "Jew."  We've been through this before in the DT-side Chat Thread; Jews are a nationilty that share a common religion.  Kinda like the Armenians.
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Offline MetalMike06

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2009, 10:49:09 PM »
The problem I see is that Palestinian Jews (Jews that have actually, ancestrally inhabited Palestine for over two millennia) only constitute fraction of today's Israeli population. Diaspora Jews artificially migrating there en masse and uprooting Arabs to create an almost exclusively Jewish state doesn't really seem fair, in my view, and it shouldn't be wrong for a Palestinian Arab to feel jipped. The Muslims, Jews, Christians that lived there all seemed to get along fine prior to 1948. That's not to say I am necessarily "anti-Israel". I personally don't mind the mere existence of Israel (I don't really have any historic connection to that land so it's not really my prerogative however it turns out) but I'm just saying if I was in an Arab's shoes, then hostile feelings seem inevitable.

Note that when I refer to "Palestine" I don't mean it in the sense of a formal country but just to describe the western Levant region in general.

We don't want an exclusively Jewish state...well, the non-Orthodox of us don't anyway.  The problem is the Arabs don't want us to be there at all.  As for what you were saying about indigenous Jews in the Levant, they may have been a small population, but they were much larger than the Arab population of the time.  Most of those who were uprooted in the 1940s had migrated there from elsewhere in the 50 years preceding, whereas the indigenous Jewish presence has been there at least since the Diaspora began in 60 CE.  And those ancestors were there even before, when there was a kingdom of Israel.  Basically, there has not been a time when Israel wasn't essentially a Jewish state, even if not in name.

Actually, on that note, fun fact: the region known as Israel/Palestine today did not exist as a state until 1948.  It was a region known as the Levant that, apart from being a "region," essentially did not "exist."  At various points it was part of Syria and the Ottoman Empire, but it was never an independent sovereign state between the beginning of Diaspora in 60 CE and 1948.


Jews pretty much always made up a majority of the population of Jerusalem, but I don't think they had a de facto majority of the whole of Palestine (again, I'm referring to the region, west of the Jordan river, not as a nation-state) since the first century, when the diaspora began to expand. From what I understand, following the first century, Jews did still always have a population in Palestine, but not any kind of large majority (aside from concentrations like in Jerusalem). So I mean, claiming that Jews as a whole have an inherent right to that land because it was controlled by Jews two-thousand years ago, coupled with a concentrated population in select areas, is a stretch, IMO. But don't get me wrong, I can have a bit of sympathy for thirst of a national homeland. I just don't think this one is really cut out so black and white.

And I just felt I ought to add, just to reiterate, I am just giving observations/opinions on the circumstances surrounding modern Israel's inception. Like I said, I don't have any crucial prerogative in the issue. Time has passed; today, Jews are there to stay, whether others like it or not. So probably like you, I am hopeful that eventually, involved parties will work something out.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 03:13:50 AM by MetalMike06 »

Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2009, 06:12:48 PM »
 It doesn't really matter if the modern state of Israel should have been formed or not. The obvious solution is that of two states. This will never happen with settlers in the West bank. Any sovereign nation has the right to kick out people staying within their borders illegally. Any sort of Palestinian response will result in getting their ass whooped.

 For those who haven't heard about the 'Jewish state' thing...

 https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1078827.html

 He's said it during his meeting with Obama also.

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Offline ack44

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 Lol Palestinian kid get's owned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_DxQvxg3JQ

 You can pretty much tell what's going on with all those camera men around. Palestinians do have to try to get the world to sympathize with them but this attempt is a blatant failure.

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Online Adami

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2010, 12:12:34 AM »
I notice when the palestinian terrorists shot up 4 civilians in a car, one of whom was pregnant, that you didn't feel the need to say anything.

Ack, your psychotic anti-israel bias is getting insane.


Also, your new title is very immature and childish. If you were actually interested in a discussion, that would be one thing, but all you seem to do is "lol israel is evil". It's just boring, I might eventually lump you in with andy, and just ignore things you say.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2010, 12:15:51 AM »
I notice when the palestinian terrorists shot up 4 civilians in a car, one of whom was pregnant, that you didn't feel the need to say anything.

Ack, your psychotic anti-israel bias is getting insane.

A simple law of human nature is at work here. Israeli cruelty happens, but its very rare, and thus is newsworthy. Palestinian terrorist attacks happen all the time, and get no attention.

When you already have an anti-Israeli bias, this cognitive bias festers and you push Palestine's sins out of your mind and focus on Israel's.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2010, 12:18:44 AM »
I notice when the palestinian terrorists shot up 4 civilians in a car, one of whom was pregnant, that you didn't feel the need to say anything.

Ack, your psychotic anti-israel bias is getting insane.


Also, your new title is very immature and childish. If you were actually interested in a discussion, that would be one thing, but all you seem to do is "lol israel is evil". It's just boring, I might eventually lump you in with andy, and just ignore things you say.

 I posted this video because it's funny and also thought provoking (the first time I watched it I had not context of where it was). The title was taken from the title of the video, which I also found funny (typical thing an arab anti-Semite would say). Sorry if you were offended  :\

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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2010, 12:22:35 AM »
A simple law of human nature is at work here. Israeli cruelty happens, but its very rare, and thus is newsworthy. Palestinian terrorist attacks happen all the time, and get no attention.

When you already have an anti-Israeli bias, this cognitive bias festers and you push Palestine's sins out of your mind and focus on Israel's.

 Holy shit, lol @ the immediate ANTI ISRAEL BIAS response I get. I simply posted a video of Palestinians making their kids throw rocks at Israeli cars and filming it (that seems to be what's going on) and I'm an Israel hater. I don't think this video made news. Probably was released by a Palestinian organization or something.

 Also I'm clearly not the biased one here. You have a bias against me that thinks everything I say is going to be anti-Israel, to the extent that my post which was more anti-Palestinian is categorized anti-Israeli.

 Or maybe you guys just need to chill out.

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Online Adami

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2010, 12:24:51 AM »
Yea, I was offended. Your entire post was not only condescending but generally insulting to both my Israeli and Palestinian brothers.

There was nothing thought provoking about what you posted. What was your point? That the middle east ISN'T a peaceful serene oasis of love and lollipops? Guess what, we all knew that. Was your point that Israel is not the perfect country of saints that the whole world thinks it is? Doubtful. Was your point that you don't like Israel and will take any cheap shot you can? That sounds a bit more likely. There's nothing thought provoking about it. It's just tabloid sensationalist nonsense. Yes, Israel has some extremists, it's pretty widely known. We all can also read the news. It's not like the news doesn't report enough about the wrong doings of Israel, we'll find out about it without you. If you want to start a real convo, feel free. I haven't seen you try recently. That post is about as thought provoking as any of Andys "lol germany, england is the roxxors" threads.

EDIT: Seems you added something to your original post. Fair enough, feel the need to make fun of a people? Make fun of your people or something. Making fun of a palestian being attacked? Or the palestinian people in general? Poor taste.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2010, 12:51:37 AM »
 Anybody watching that video without pre-conceived bias would say that the kids and cameramen are in the wrong, not the person in the car. A little more context might prove to alter the viewer's emotions though. You could either conclude "these people are so desperate for help that they need to throw rocks at cars" or "these are the people that Israel is supposed give up their land to? forget it."

 @ Adami: Why does this need to be interpreted as me making fun of Palestinians as a whole? This kid was dumb and pretty much deserved what he got. He also learned a valuable lesson; running towards a car headed towards you results in you being hit. It had to happen sooner or later. I sympathize with Palestinians more than Israelis because they're the underdogs, but that doesn't mean my reaction to this video is going to be JEW ZIONIST TERRORIST. I didn't post this to cause a personal fight and I'm definitely not interested in one. Nor overly emotional reactions.

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Online Adami

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2010, 12:57:05 AM »
Oh I'm sorry, I guess I got confused by phrases like "Israeli jew zionist extremist" "israeli terrorist " and "lol palestinian kid gets owned".
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2010, 12:59:45 AM »
 It saddens me that you would think I'd come up with something like "israeli terrorist extremist"  :(  Should have put it in quotes.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2010, 01:03:44 AM »
Wait a minute, your entire reason for supporting the Palestinians is because they're the underdog and Israeli apparently is the big, bad Goliath?  That's pretty shitty.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2010, 01:08:31 AM »
Wait a minute, your entire reason for supporting the Palestinians is because they're the underdog and Israeli apparently is the big, bad Goliath?  That's pretty shitty.

 How is that shitty? Palestinians suffer more. I didn't make a claim of which side is good or which is bad. There are far shittier reasons to support either side.

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Online Adami

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2010, 01:10:33 AM »
It saddens me that you would think I'd come up with something like "israeli terrorist extremist"  :(  Should have put it in quotes.

Oh I'm sorry, I have this terrible habbit of basing my assumptions about someone based on their previous actions.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2010, 01:14:57 AM »
 All my points are logical and I never resort to cheap cliche name bashing, although I've been labeled an anti-Semite probably more than once.

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Online Adami

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2010, 01:16:44 AM »
All my points are logical and I never resort to cheap cliche name bashing, although I've been labeled an anti-Semite probably more than once.

lol palestinian kid gets owned isn't logical, and it is cheap cliche name bashing.

And you're clearly not anti-semitic if you don't hate arabs.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2010, 01:29:23 AM »
All my points are logical and I never resort to cheap cliche name bashing, although I've been labeled an anti-Semite probably more than once.

lol palestinian kid gets owned isn't logical, and it is cheap cliche name bashing.

And you're clearly not anti-semitic if you don't hate arabs.

 It wasn't logical because I wasn't trying to make a point and I trust you can tell the difference between "lol palestinian kid" and "israeli terrorist extremist". It's nice that you know what "Semitic" means but I'm pretty sure the term "anti-Semite" only refers to Jew haters.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2010, 09:12:11 AM »
All my points are logical and I never resort to cheap cliche name bashing, although I've been labeled an anti-Semite probably more than once.

lol palestinian kid gets owned isn't logical, and it is cheap cliche name bashing.

And you're clearly not anti-semitic if you don't hate arabs.

On that note, so you put Arabs under the Semitic umbrella?  Because actually I thought it was only a very particular category of Middle Easterners, and I thought their civilization disappeared millennia ago... (i.e. the Akkadians and Phoenicians)
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2010, 12:23:00 PM »
ack44 you sicken me to my stomach because you say the things I want to say but unwilling -or too lazy- to defend against the backlash it would cause here, especially that I'm so much closer to the conflict here than you and know you're right.
ReaPsTA with all due respect you persist on showing so much ignorance when it comes to the middle eastern conflict, of all the posts that oppose ack and bosk your's imply a one dimensional idea that somehow got to your head and never got updated nor re-examined.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2010, 12:29:52 PM »
ack44 you sicken me to my stomach because you say the things I want to say but unwilling -or too lazy- to defend against the backlash it would cause here, especially that I'm so much closer to the conflict here than you and know you're right.
ReaPsTA with all due respect you persist on showing so much ignorance when it comes to the middle eastern conflict, of all the posts that oppose ack and bosk your's imply a one dimensional idea that somehow got to your head and never got updated nor re-examined.


You wanted to say "lol palestinian kid gets what he deserves" but were too scared to?
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2010, 12:37:10 PM »
heh i can't load videos on youtube cause I'm on dial up :/
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2010, 12:39:02 PM »
Gotta say, the video and the title are both funny as shit.  I understand what Ack's intention was with this particular post, and I'm cool with it. 
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Online Adami

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2010, 12:55:22 PM »
Gotta say, the video and the title are both funny as shit.  I understand what Ack's intention was with this particular post, and I'm cool with it. 

I dunno, I never really find anything funny about the palestinian suffering, even if it is brought on by themselves. I guess I'm too close to the conflict emotionally to find any part of it funny. Which is odd since I can joke about the holocaust.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2010, 05:24:24 PM »
Gotta say, the video and the title are both funny as shit.  I understand what Ack's intention was with this particular post, and I'm cool with it. 

 The funniest part is all the different titles it's being uploaded under...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf7Wb47ZMEw

 I won't post anymore jokes about the I-P conflict, though.

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