Obama: Israel must halt all settlement activity

[EPICVIEW]

^^^

so is Acks point that the "Driver took his car out for a ride to go hit children"

how in heck would anyone know how they would drive, which way they should or would turn, when rocks are crashing into the car, their family is in the car, and they are being surrounded and maybe killed...

I really do love Monday Morning QBs..

so maybe he should have gotten out of his car and gotten stoned and beaten to death??.. and had his son face the same fate... that would be "wise" LOL

[EPICVIEW]

Epicview, if you're not going to provide links then stop making claims.

do you even know who the driver was? he is well known within the community..

 It said on youtube that it was a settler leader or something but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info.

and his FAMILY was in the car..  

did you send the injured inocent rock throwing kid a "get well soon card"..LOL


and youre welcome

[ack44]

so is Acks point that the "Driver took his car out for a ride to go hit children"

 No.

[EPICVIEW]

2. Why would he slam on the breaks? He's surrounded by people throwing rocks at him who obviously will attack him, he's going to keep driving, it's the kids fault for RUNNING INTO A MOVING CAR IN THE MIDDLE OF WHAT SEEMS TO BE A SOMEWHAT BUSY STREET.

 This point? I don't see any sign of them wanting to attack the car other than throw rocks at it. I don't see how ramming into two kids would prevent your car from being damaged. The driver probably wouldn't have been able to hit more kids if he/she was trying.

 As for the kid, I was the first to point out that he's dumb as fuck.

Hes not dumb..he is DEADLY...thats the point you refuse to understand

[eric42434224]

If you put youself in that position, you are going to get hurt.
Also notice the guy hit his horn....he only had one hand on the wheel.

[soundgarden]

1) The kid on the left runs directly head long towards the car.
2) The driver swerves to our right to avoid him.  
3) There is a another kid on the sidewalk he notices, so he swerves to our left and slams into the first kid.

Simple. As. That.

I was in the same situation before, but involved only cars.  To say he had any intention to hurt these kids is purposely distorting the video.  And besides, 95% of drivers would have it one of those kids.  There was no way he could braked in time and they were spread out well.

And frankly it is sad that the discussion has been taken away from "what the hell are these kids doing and why" to "look how this guy reacted to a violent unexpected situation,"

[ack44]

And frankly it is sad that the discussion has been taken away from "what the hell are these kids doing and why" to "look how this guy reacted to a violent unexpected situation,"

Frankly everybody agrees on what the kids were doing.

[eric42434224]

And frankly it is sad that the discussion has been taken away from "what the hell are these kids doing and why" to "look how this guy reacted to a violent unexpected situation,"

Frankly everybody agrees on what the kids were doing.

Which is why anyone even hinting that this isnt 100% their (the kids and perhaps their parents) fault is baffling.

[ack44]

Lol @ people trying to pinpoint who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in everything. It's a complex situation. It's a vague video. It's an awkward turnout. This kind of thing is VERY easy to see the way you want to see it, and so people easily put the entire blame on one side. Primitive.

[eric42434224]

Lol @ people trying to pinpoint who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in everything. It's a complex situation. It's a vague video. It's an awkward turnout. This kind of thing is VERY easy to see the way you want to see it, and so people easily put the entire blame on one side. Primitive.

Dont think anyone is saying there even is a "good guy" in this scenario.  Just that the driver was put into a dangerous situation and seemed to react in the only rational way possible.  And that the kids put themselves in a situation that begged for a bad outcome for one side or the other.  Just happens it backfired on them and they have no one to blame but themselves.  I am unbiased here, and am extremely hardpressed to think of a scenario that doesnt have the driver as the victim of violence, and the kid a victim of his own actions.

[j]

Lol @ people trying to pinpoint who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in everything. It's a complex situation. It's a vague video. It's an awkward turnout. This kind of thing is VERY easy to see the way you want to see it, and so people easily put the entire blame on one side. Primitive.

Dont think anyone is saying there even is a "good guy" in this scenario.  Just that the driver was put into a dangerous situation and seemed to react in the only rational way possible.  And that the kids put themselves in a situation that begged for a bad outcome for one side or the other.  Just happens it backfired on them and they have no one to blame but themselves.  I am unbiased here, and am extremely hardpressed to think of a scenario that doesnt have the driver as the victim of violence, and the kid a victim of his own actions.

This.

WTF @ this thread.

-J

[EPICVIEW]

This is part of the Jihad against Israel and how to manipulate the muslim media to bait an incident like the Flotilla incident.. thats why the video exists and the camera crews were all over ..much like the Flotilla internal videos

this is what they teach the children ..to hate.. to become shahids..martyers... to never accept Christians or Jews.. to fight and kill..

sadly ,the Jihadist they got what they wanted.. a video that can somehow be used against the real victim here..the driver and his family and to paint the Jews as the agressor ...

the question is would anyone in the media care if it was if it was a Jewish kid that was hurt?

[emindead]

I don't think this video made news. Probably was released by a Palestinian organization or something.

More like the front page on Friday's paper.

link?

https://www.eltiempo.com/mundo/medio-oriente/ARTICULO-WEB-NEW_NOTA_INTERIOR-8108780.html

This is our most important newspaper. That was the picture on the front page.

[EPICVIEW]

1) The kid on the left runs directly head long towards the car.
2) The driver swerves to our right to avoid him.  
3) There is a another kid on the sidewalk he notices, so he swerves to our left and slams into the first kid.

Simple. As. That.

I was in the same situation before, but involved only cars.  To say he had any intention to hurt these kids is purposely distorting the video.  And besides, 95% of drivers would have it one of those kids.  There was no way he could braked in time and they were spread out well.

And frankly it is sad that the discussion has been taken away from "what the hell are these kids doing and why" to "look how this guy reacted to a violent unexpected situation,"

Great Post^ well said

[ack44]

Lol @ people trying to pinpoint who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in everything. It's a complex situation. It's a vague video. It's an awkward turnout. This kind of thing is VERY easy to see the way you want to see it, and so people easily put the entire blame on one side. Primitive.

Dont think anyone is saying there even is a "good guy" in this scenario.  Just that the driver was put into a dangerous situation and seemed to react in the only rational way possible.  And that the kids put themselves in a situation that begged for a bad outcome for one side or the other.  Just happens it backfired on them and they have no one to blame but themselves.  I am unbiased here, and am extremely hardpressed to think of a scenario that doesnt have the driver as the victim of violence, and the kid a victim of his own actions.

 The car turns and charges towards the kid in white (who probably did something to really piss the driver off). The kid in white barely dodges the car. The kids in black are hit. Whatever the reason for the driver swaying left was... anger or confusion it was obviously a bad idea. If he had stayed on the right side (car view) of the road the kids probably would have been able to dodge him and he would have just had rocks thrown at his car.

 I don't know what it's like to be David Be'eri. This kind of thing probably isn't rare for him. I don't know if that's a reason for him to panic more or to know how to handle the situation, but the way he turned left which caused him to drive all over the road wasn't a smart thing to do. So even though he was put in a shitty position, I think there could have been a better outcome. The kids are still dumb as fuck.

[ack44]

This is part of the Jihad against Israel and how to manipulate the muslim media to bait an incident like the Flotilla incident.. thats why the video exists and the camera crews were all over ..much like the Flotilla internal videos

this is what they teach the children ..to hate.. to become shahids..martyers... to never accept Christians or Jews.. to fight and kill..

sadly ,the Jihadist they got what they wanted.. a video that can somehow be used against the real victim here..the driver and his family and to paint the Jews as the agressor ...

the question is would anyone in the media care if it was if it was a Jewish kid that was hurt?

 I pretty much agree with what your saying, except for your tone - that Israelis (I won't say Jew) are the victims and that all these people should be divided by their religion. And I wouldn't advise that you describe these stereotypes you have because it only makes you appear backwards.

[EPICVIEW]

This is part of the Jihad against Israel and how to manipulate the muslim media to bait an incident like the Flotilla incident.. thats why the video exists and the camera crews were all over ..much like the Flotilla internal videos

this is what they teach the children ..to hate.. to become shahids..martyers... to never accept Christians or Jews.. to fight and kill..

sadly ,the Jihadist they got what they wanted.. a video that can somehow be used against the real victim here..the driver and his family and to paint the Jews as the agressor ...

the question is would anyone in the media care if it was if it was a Jewish kid that was hurt?

 I pretty much agree with what your saying, except for your tone - that Israelis (I won't say Jew) are the victims and that all these people should be divided by their religion. And I wouldn't advise that you describe these stereotypes you have because it only makes you appear backwards.

Id respond but I dont understand what you are saying?
and what tone?

[soundgarden]

This kind of thing is VERY easy to see the way you want to see it

Is there a hyped-up term for irony?  Like, mega-irony?  If there isn't someone should add it and place this as the example.

Seriously ack, wow.  Its not awkward.  Its not complex.  The REASONS those kids are doing that may be complex, but that is irrelevant in that video. 

[ack44]

Seriously ack, wow.  Its not awkward.  Its not complex.  The REASONS those kids are doing that may be complex, but that is irrelevant in that video. 

 It's complex because you can't tell what's going on immediately before the car starts going all over the road. You can't even tell if the car was stopped or moving before the video starts. It's easy to pay attention to the kids that got ran over but what about the kid in white? Why doesn't the car trying to avoid him (he is in the front of the group after all)? Is this a totally unreasonable thing I'm pointing out?

[ack44]

This is part of the Jihad against Israel and how to manipulate the muslim media to bait an incident like the Flotilla incident.. thats why the video exists and the camera crews were all over ..much like the Flotilla internal videos

this is what they teach the children ..to hate.. to become shahids..martyers... to never accept Christians or Jews.. to fight and kill..

sadly ,the Jihadist they got what they wanted.. a video that can somehow be used against the real victim here..the driver and his family and to paint the Jews as the agressor ...

the question is would anyone in the media care if it was if it was a Jewish kid that was hurt?

 I pretty much agree with what your saying, except for your tone - that Israelis (I won't say Jew) are the victims and that all these people should be divided by their religion. And I wouldn't advise that you describe these stereotypes you have because it only makes you appear backwards.

Id respond but I dont understand what you are saying?
and what tone?

"Jihad" - I don't think it's fair to label all Palestinian resistance as Jihad. Even if they were secular they would be resisting.

"to never accept Christians or Jews" - Some extreme Muslims probably preach this but not all. I'm sure there are plenty of Israeli Jews that teach their kids to hate Muslims and Arabs.

"would anyone in the media care if it was if it was a Jewish kid that was hurt?" - I think so. The thing is, Israel doesn't really benefit from getting any kind of media attention since it is superior politically, militarily, economically, and all the other ly's. Attention to the conflict is that last thing it wants.

But none of these things really have anything to do with the discussion.

[Progmetty]

I'm sure there are plenty of Israeli Jews that teach their kids to hate Muslims and Arabs.

Dude they make the kids write messages on the missiles during the Gaza bombings, an Israeli friend of mine was invited by his brother-in-law but he told him to fuck off and stop teaching their kids to celebrate death so eagerly, when he told me this story he quoted Damage, Inc's chorus heh

[Super Dude]

I'm sure that's not true. I've never heard of any such thing.

[Super Dude]

Whenever you guys decide you want to start taking this seriously, I found an interesting op-ed today: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/opinion/14oren.html?_r=1

[ack44]

 Israel is one of the most recent nation-states in the world. For the Prime Minister of such a new country to demand that they as a nation should be recognized by a term with such strong ethnic and religious meanings blows my mind. This isn't the fucking middle ages.

 But that article is definitely interesting.

[Super Dude]

It's not the most recent nation-state in the world.  Where have you been since the 1990s?

And as for that second bit, tell that to the leaders of the more religiously ruled Saudi Arabia, or Iran perhaps.

[ack44]

It's not the most recent nation-state in the world.  Where have you been since the 1990s?

I didn't say it was.

And as for that second bit, tell that to the leaders of the more religiously ruled Saudi Arabia, or Iran perhaps.

 Those are crappy theocracies and you can make threads about them if you like. We don't need any more of those in this world. But I'm pretty sure no nations recognize those as "Arab" and "Persian" nations.

[Super Dude]

But...they are. They may have other populations contained therein, as Israel does, but Iran is still a Persian state, Syrian is an Arab one, and Turkey is self-explanatory. And out of those mentioned, Israel (and as far as I know, possibly Turkey) is the only nation-state that also is a liberal democracy.

[ack44]

Just as Israel recognizes the existence of a Palestinian people with an inalienable right to self-determination in its homeland, so, too, must the Palestinians accede to the Jewish people’s 3,000-year connection to our homeland and our right to sovereignty there.

 Many different people have lived on that land, not just Jews, so it would be controversial. It would be bizarre to claim that any race or religion has a sovereign right to any piece of land. Only religion could support such a bizarre claim. In this case, Judaism is using its scriptures to claim that the land belongs to the Jews/Hebrews (hence the problem of the illegal settlers), and if I'm not mistaken, a lot of this land are parts that the Palestinians want for a future state. So it would be a big mistake for a Palestinian leader to recognize Israel and a Jewish state.

[ack44]

But...they are. They may have other populations contained therein, as Israel does, but Iran is still a Persian state, Syrian is an Arab one, and Turkey is self-explanatory. And out of those mentioned, Israel (and as far as I know, possibly Turkey) is the only nation-state that also is a liberal democracy.

 Japan is full of Japanese people and is more Japanese than Israel is Jewish. And it's just as democratic (there are plenty other examples).

[Progmetty]

I'm sure that's not true. I've never heard of any such thing.

No way dude, it was all over -but nowhere near a TV station here- during one of those raids a couple years ago.

https://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5165044-israeli-children-sign-bombs-destined-for-lebanon/images
https://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/israeli-children-sign-bombs-destined-lebanon_824.html
https://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/about_those_photos_of_little_g.php
https://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2006/jul/20/missilespostin

[ack44]

Netanyahu - serious about peace

https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b5c02f78-d846-11df-a7b4-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss

[Super Dude]

It didn't let me read the article.  There was some pop-up, I closed it, and it redirected me to the main page.

[ack44]

Lol that's funny 'cause your link did that to me too the second time I clicked on it. Must be some new shitty scheme. Here's another link.

https://www.pisqa.com/10/israel-approves-settlement-in-jerusalem-the-palestinians-furious/

[Super Dude]

I'm so tired of this argument, so I'll just insert one point here: blame the leadership, not the entire country.  Not all Israelis want to expand into the West Bank and Gaza, in fact I'd say most of them don't want to.  The problem here is a very influential religious right.