Author Topic: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?  (Read 44158 times)

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Offline sirbradford117

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2010, 06:10:03 AM »
he is either the world's greatest liar, the world's greatest lunatic or the son of God...I vote for the latter

PS...I think that is from CS lewis

No, it's from Josh McDowell's More Than a Carpenter.  He has a chapter in that book called "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic?"


But originally from C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.  I'm almost positive.

And yes, I believe in Jesus as the Son of God.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2010, 06:22:27 AM »
I was reading some article in my Bible, and it mentioned that Jesus Christ is the most notable and influential person in history. I think most of us can agree with that.

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2010, 06:25:17 AM »
As a non-christian I don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah. A lot of his deeds are (to me), nothing more than science fiction. But as far as his message goes, I believe he lived and spoke some good words.

I don't buy into the whole "son of god" thing though

Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2010, 08:05:38 AM »
I agree with C.S Lewis up until the determination of being the son of god. There is a chance he did not exist and his myths were merely plagiarized from every other messianic prophecy that was floating around the middle east. If he truly did exist, only one of the following is true. His acts have been elevated to impossibility and lies, he was very deranged, he was a very evil man or he was the son of God. Since there is no reason for me to believe that he is the son of god, I have no reason to believe he existed and it is possible he did.

If he did his abilities were exaggerated and possibly his message. However if his message was in fact not exaggerated he was either very deranged or very evil, in the case of the former he would be by default be both.

What I know for sure is, his original image was that of a brown Jew. Most certainly not white. I find it incredibly funny how many dumb racist Christians would be appalled to know that lol.

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2010, 08:10:31 AM »
I was reading some article in my Bible, and it mentioned that Jesus Christ is the most notable and influential person in history. I think most of us can agree with that.
I think this premise holds a lot more promise of debate than the OP's question (which, for the record, my answer is obviously no).

It's difficult to fully answer this.  Does he have more influence than say, Augustus, Alexander, or Hitler, whose influence was direct and during the time of their lives?  Considering the vast amount of prophets who've died over the years and whose teachings went nowhere, are the followers that spread his message so effectively more influential?  What about people who existed before civilization could record their deeds?  I'd say it's damn near impossible to get a real bearing on this question, but one would have to think that he's at least in the top 10.  ;)
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Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2010, 08:17:05 AM »
@Jonno

While the way you put that was very inflammatory, I agree that the common portrayal of Jesus (long-haired white guy) is probably quite inaccurate.  If he existed, he was certainly olive-skinned in appearance, and probably did not have long hair, as Paul condemns men with long hair in one of his letters (I can't remember where).

Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2010, 08:19:44 AM »
Do you as an individual believe in the existence of Jesus Christ? If so, do you believe he was more than human? If not, what do you believe he accomplished?

I think James and Yesh summed up what I would say.  But it is interesting the way you phrased the question.  You are aware, aren't you, that Christ is the title "annointed" or "messiah" and is not his name?  I merely ask because asking whether someone believes in the existence of "Jesus Christ" is an acknowledgement that he is in fact the son of God, rendering the second question superfluous.
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Offline MetalMike06

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2010, 08:36:18 AM »
Yeah and yeah.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2010, 08:37:53 AM »
I think it is likey that he existed, but not that he was the son of god.
Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline soundgarden

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2010, 08:58:19 AM »

His teachings on ethics were excellent though.
That's my view of him really.
rumborak

Like many great men and women of history.  I lump the likes of Jesus, Ghandi, King, etc. in the same camp.  Any talk of divinity looses my attention.

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2010, 09:07:03 AM »
I was reading some article in my Bible, and it mentioned that Jesus Christ is the most notable and influential person in history. I think most of us can agree with that.

Depends. As a mere presence, sure. But as far as teachings, I'd say Paul is a lot more influential.
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Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2010, 09:19:08 AM »
Sure, he probably lived a long time ago, but since I'm not a Christian I don't consider him the son of god, blah blah blah.

This topic is also surprisingly tame for a topic like this. I've seen topics like this go to shit within the first five posts before, so good job guys!  :tup
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2010, 10:05:52 AM »
I was reading some article in my Bible, and it mentioned that Jesus Christ is the most notable and influential person in history. I think most of us can agree with that.
I think this premise holds a lot more promise of debate than the OP's question (which, for the record, my answer is obviously no).

It's difficult to fully answer this.  Does he have more influence than say, Augustus, Alexander, or Hitler, whose influence was direct and during the time of their lives?  Considering the vast amount of prophets who've died over the years and whose teachings went nowhere, are the followers that spread his message so effectively more influential?  What about people who existed before civilization could record their deeds?  I'd say it's damn near impossible to get a real bearing on this question, but one would have to think that he's at least in the top 10.  ;)
I was reading some article in my Bible, and it mentioned that Jesus Christ is the most notable and influential person in history. I think most of us can agree with that.

Depends. As a mere presence, sure. But as far as teachings, I'd say Paul is a lot more influential.

If it wasn't for Jesus, none of the later events would have happened. HIS very own influence is the reason for Paul's influence, Peter's influence, etc. I'd say, as a Christian, I am influenced by Jesus Christ more than I am influenced by Paul, who got His inspiration from Jesus.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2010, 10:09:59 AM »
I find that, if the divinity stuff was actually true, it wouldn't be so clandestine and vague. If there was a god who cared enough about humans to direct their lives and listen to their prayers, he wouldn't leave us guessing. The supposed explanations for this always reek heavily of humans trying to make work what they had invested in so much already.

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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2010, 10:13:58 AM »
Vague?

He doesn't leave us guessing like you're implying. He leaves us with an option to choose our "own mad course", or to follow Him. But that means we need to pray (read: communicate) with Him, and fellowship with others, and dig into His Word. When one of those is lacking, then yes, it becomes a huge guessing game. And if your heart isn't in your walk with God, then you'll be left guessing.

I speak that from experience. I've learned that God is always right, even if I have to learn the hard way.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2010, 10:21:04 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you pray, you're not "talking" to God, right? That is, you don't hear a responding voice that talks to you and answers questions, right? You essentially have a monologue in your mind, directed at God, no?
That's what I mean by vague. I find it peculiar that a God who cares so much about you that He will listen to your prayers at any given point in time, will however not communicate with you.

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Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2010, 10:26:13 AM »
Many people would probably claim in response to that that God does reply, but in an indirect way, i.e. through feelings, intuitions, etc.

Plus, if God replied directly, then he proves his existence, which eliminates the need for faith.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2010, 10:29:00 AM »
Plus, if God replied directly, then he proves his existence, which eliminates the need for faith.

That exact argument is what I'm talking about. It's literally reeking of humans trying to make it work somehow. "Well, since there is no evidence, it must be that God is testing us implicitly. Only the true believers are eligible."
Why is a deity, who 3000 years ago was supposedly bellowing with a mighty voice and wiping out cities in a single swoop, now in this vague state of "Can you see me? Can you hear me? Because I'm not showing myself."

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Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2010, 10:38:12 AM »
Well, one could make the claim (and guys like Jerry Falwell have made this exact claim) that things like Katrina and the Haiti earthquake are examples of God bellowing with a mighty voice and wiping out cities in a single swoop.  In no way am I making such a ridiculous claim, I'm just saying that could be a rebuttal.

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2010, 10:47:22 AM »
Whoa, no.

God speaks to your spirit. Usually not audibly (don't discount that, though, He has done it), but by giving you peace about a matter or some kind of "feeling", but feeling really isn't the right word. Maybe "intuition", although that isn't it either.

Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2010, 10:56:39 AM »
That peaceful feeling could be God speaking, or it could be a release of serotonin in your brain that results from the ritual act of praying.

Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2010, 10:59:37 AM »
@Jonno

While the way you put that was very inflammatory, I agree that the common portrayal of Jesus (long-haired white guy) is probably quite inaccurate.  If he existed, he was certainly olive-skinned in appearance, and probably did not have long hair, as Paul condemns men with long hair in one of his letters (I can't remember where).

It could be construed as inflammatory, yes. There are many dumb people, the only ones that will care will be Christians.  

Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2010, 11:04:36 AM »
I honestly doubt many modern, intelligent Christians really care what Jesus looked like.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2010, 11:06:13 AM »
Well, one could make the claim (and guys like Jerry Falwell have made this exact claim) that things like Katrina and the Haiti earthquake are examples of God bellowing with a mighty voice and wiping out cities in a single swoop.  In no way am I making such a ridiculous claim, I'm just saying that could be a rebuttal.

I think that is the reality of the sudden "silencing" though. 3000 years ago earthquakes and flash floods were considered acts of God, and reasons are quickly found, e.g. perceived lasciviousness of the inhabitants of the city (always a popular reason for the most pious) or lack of belief of said inhabitants.
These days we know about the Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault zone.

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2010, 11:14:33 AM »
Whoa, no.
God speaks to your spirit. Usually not audibly (don't discount that, though, He has done it), but by giving you peace about a matter or some kind of "feeling", but feeling really isn't the right word. Maybe "intuition", although that isn't it either.

How is that not vague? I too get peace about matters I have pondered long enough.

rumborak
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2010, 11:16:50 AM »
I honestly doubt many modern, intelligent Christians really care what Jesus looked like.
Oh I agree but I have come a crossed some interesting characters if you know what I mean.

Offline soundgarden

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2010, 11:17:43 AM »
The very existence of all the various denominations of Christianity PROVES the vagueness of christian scriptures.

Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2010, 11:27:20 AM »
Well, each denomination would probably claim that each other denomination doesn't quite get it right.

Offline soundgarden

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2010, 11:35:32 AM »
Well, each denomination would probably claim that each other denomination doesn't quite get it right.

.....proving the complete open ended possibilities of interpretations of scripture.

Offline UnutterableSquid

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2010, 11:39:23 AM »
I believe that Jesus is equally God with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

I believe that he left his spot in heaven around 2000 years ago and took on the form of a poor human while still remaining God. He did so both to fulfill the mission which the Father tasked him with and to lead by example.

I believe that he preached the Gospels to people in Palestine, delivering the word that people are not forsaken and preaching about how to live a good, pious, and selfless life.

I believe that he undertook the ultimate act of selflessness and obeyed the plan laid out by the Father to be crucified and suffer for all the sins ever committed by mankind. In the process he took the punishment that everyone who ever lived deserves, and breaking the barrier that existed between those who have sinned and access to heaven.

I believe that after spending a few days destroying death, he rose again as a sign that he had delivered on his promise.

I also believe that he challenges us with living a selfless life, having paved the way for humans to do so. He demands that we sacrifice, like he did, and give up our lives so that others may live better and enjoy what has been given to them.

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Offline kirbywelch92

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2010, 11:41:34 AM »
That peaceful feeling could be God speaking, or it could be a release of serotonin in your brain that results from the ritual act of praying.

Or, it could be both. God commands the spiritual and physical, he commands the entire universe. God created serotonin for whatever purpose he created for.

@Bosk

I'm afraid I have to disagree, I don't find the second question superfluous at all as my experience has proved that even many professing Christians believe in both the existence and teachings of Jesus, but don't acknowledge his role as the Messiah because of its "supernatural" nature. This thread is kind of an undeclared poll really, I'm tempted to make a sister thread on the findings.

Offline kirbywelch92

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2010, 11:43:24 AM »
Well, each denomination would probably claim that each other denomination doesn't quite get it right.

.....proving the complete open ended possibilities of interpretations of scripture.

Well, yes and no. Most denominations don't differ on an interpretation of scripture so much as a difference in traditions and how worship is to be carried out. Some denominations don't play music in church, some don't allow the existence of tattoos or piercings, a lot of these denominations stem from questions often unanswered by scripture, not from a difference in interpretation.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2010, 11:48:21 AM »
No, it goes deeper than that. Trinity vs. non-Trinity for example, is a pretty big difference. And Muslims are "Christians" too since they see Jesus as a prophet, but not divine. So, there's a wide range of interpretations if you look at it.

rumborak
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2010, 01:31:37 PM »
Whoa, no.
God speaks to your spirit. Usually not audibly (don't discount that, though, He has done it), but by giving you peace about a matter or some kind of "feeling", but feeling really isn't the right word. Maybe "intuition", although that isn't it either.

How is that not vague? I too get peace about matters I have pondered long enough.

rumborak


You know the peace of knowing something is resolved or predictable. Even with all uncertainty and seemingly bad things happening, God can give you complete peace. It's a different kind, and I know it probably sounds absurd...but it's true.

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2010, 01:46:30 PM »
No, it goes deeper than that. Trinity vs. non-Trinity for example, is a pretty big difference. And Muslims are "Christians" too since they see Jesus as a prophet, but not divine. So, there's a wide range of interpretations if you look at it.

rumborak


This.  Many Christians *seriously* downplay the degree or importance of the countless differences in doctrine between denominations.  Which is strange, because you would think that when dealing with matters such as absolute truth and eternal damnation, getting it right would be the utmost priority.

-J