THE Judas Priest thread - v. new album and tour in 2024

[jammindude]

Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but I don't count the Ripper albums.

Neither do Priest.

Totally a shame.   Demolition is a mess, but Jugulator is just AMAZING.  Cathedral Spires is possibly the greatest JP album closer of all time.   And Live Meltdown by itself is reason enough to legitimize the Ripper-era.    I'm an old school JP fan....but Live Meltdown is my favorite Priest Live album.

But therein is the Priest problem.   Now, I'm a huge Maiden fan (first concert ever was Maiden opening for Priest in '82) and compared to them, Priest just comes off a little cartoony.   The "Metal God".  "Jugulator".  What the fuck is a "Jugulator"?  Booby fondler?   I like Priest - have all their albums except the Ripper ones - but it's a little over the top for me, and despite some great tunes, drops them a notch for me.

Oh come on! How is the Jugulator any different than the Hellion from SFV? Or the character on the front of DOTF? Or the Painkiller? All classic Halford albums...all NO DIFFERENT than the Jugulator.

And all cartoony.   I'm not arguing with you but you are in a way making my point. 

I outgrew the "METAL ROOLS, EVERYONE ELSE IS FOOLS!  DIE FOR METAL MUTHAFUCKAS!" mentality in '84.... wait, I never really HAD that mentality.   I get it, love your lifestyle and live it to the fullest, but I kind of got into the touchpoints of Maiden (and Sabbath for that matter) more than I did those of Priest.   Their best albums - and the parts of their albums I love the best - were always the parts where they brought it back down to less of a caricature.  We DON'T Rock, I DON'T Wanna Rock, and I'm not Defending The Faith.  Though I've dated a couple women that could be the subject of "Devil's Child". 

It's my one knock on later Sabbath; once someone told Iommi that he was the "RIFFMASTER GENERAL", and all he had to do was pile a couple of monster pieces of riffage together, instead of crafting SONGS like Spiral Architect, their work went down a notch (that's why I like the first two Dio records only, and while I have since gone back and found much to appreciate about Dehumanizer, I dismissed it for years as just a one-note sludge-fest).

No one talks about it much, but it's why I liked Point of Entry so much.  Some have called it Rob's "gay" album, and while I'm not gay at all, I thought it was a great exploration - to the extent you can explore the inner feelings of a gay man on a metal record, let's keep SOME perspective - of something REAL, as opposed to "Killing Machines" and what not.

I don't dispute anything you said.  I only dispute that as being a sole reason to dismiss the Ripper albums.   

[Art]

Jugulator is awesome. Live Meltdown is a beast of a live album.

[Stadler]

I don't dispute anything you said.  I only dispute that as being a sole reason to dismiss the Ripper albums.

Those aren't the reasons I dismiss the Ripper albums.  Those I dismiss just because it seemed a caricature to me, and a caricature of a cartoon at that.   I'm not at all claiming to be fair or reasoned in this, just describing my feelings.   I don't have time for every song ever put out by every band ever, and I loved the mid-period Priest so much that I have my fix when I need it. 

[El Barto]

In Boogie Nights, when Dirk is pimping himself out, the gay-basher that pulls up in the truck is listening to Jawbreaker. Thought that was a clever touch.

Going back a ways to the Rob v. Bruce thing, there's no question that Rob had the better range. Bruce couldn't have sang Dreamer Deceiver or Epitaph on his best day. At the same time, Rob's been in a steady state of decline since the late 80s. Saddens me enough that I don't even bother going to see them anymore. Bruce, on the other hand, seems to get better each year. If the question is who was better in their prime, Rob gets it, but that prime lasted about 2 years or so.

[NotePad]

Is the reason People don't like Jugulator because of Ripper Owens? Because it's a great album, I I believe simply suffers from replacement singer syndrome. After Painkiller i think a lot of people would want something even more brutal, and Jugulator is that album.

[Stadler]

Is the reason People don't like Jugulator because of Ripper Owens? Because it's a great album, I I believe simply suffers from replacement singer syndrome. After Painkiller i think a lot of people would want something even more brutal, and Jugulator is that album.

Maybe that's why I got lost.  I don't want more "brutal" with Priest.   This will be sacrilege to some, but I think Scott Travis was a drop off, because he was more a quintessential "METAL" drummer, with the double bass drums and all.  I even thought Painkiller was too much a reaction to the (too) soft Turbo.   

[MirrorMask]

Turbo is mostly disliked and the title track only survives in the setlist, but next time around I would love for them to dust off the hidden gem of this album: Reckless. I love that song.

[Zydar]

My favourite track on Turbo is Rock You All Around The World.

[emtee]

There are a ton of them and I think it's mainly because I am able to listen to music from bands that have been around a long time
without feeling the need to compare their early works with later day albums.

For instance Priest's last 3 albums are awesome. I remember reading so many bad reviews of Nostradamus but I really love that
album. All Journey's post Steve Perry albums are great too.

Then you have some more unknown albums like UPO's first album and a slew of early 90's hair metal albums that never reached
the height of popularity that they would have if not for grunge...Cry Wolf, Cold Sweat, Tyketto, Sayara.

I could go on and on...


ughhh...this was meant for the albums you like but feel nobody else appreciates.

Fail...at least my post talked about Priest 

[El Barto]

Is the reason People don't like Jugulator because of Ripper Owens? Because it's a great album, I I believe simply suffers from replacement singer syndrome. After Painkiller i think a lot of people would want something even more brutal, and Jugulator is that album.

Maybe that's why I got lost.  I don't want more "brutal" with Priest.   This will be sacrilege to some, but I think Scott Travis was a drop off, because he was more a quintessential "METAL" drummer, with the double bass drums and all.  I even thought Painkiller was too much a reaction to the (too) soft Turbo.   

All Priest albums are reactionary. I don't think it's so much a reaction to their own work, but the popular music of the time. They haven't been interested in doing their own thing since '78 or so. Everything since then has been chasing a sound. That applies to their drummers, as well. Remember that Dave Holland was hired on because Les Binks was far too fucking awesome to play the more radio friendly stuff they were interested in. That lasted until the music changed beyond Holland's abilities.

[Mosh]

I think it's reactionary to themselves too. Take Redeemer for example, definitely a reaction to the lukewarm reception for Nostradamus.

Turbo isn't bad, Out In the Cold is one of their best songs.

[wolfking]

Turbo on a whole IMO is fabulous.

[El Barto]

I think it's reactionary to themselves too. Take Redeemer for example, definitely a reaction to the lukewarm reception for Nostradamus.

Turbo isn't bad, Out In the Cold is one of their best songs.

I saw Nostradamus as them actually trying to do their own thing. When it didn't work out they went back to what was expected. That's still a reaction to the audience, though. However the albums since Rob's return have been less reactionary to the popular music of the time. Seems now they just want to recreate what made them famous, which is understandable.

And OitC is a great song. It's a damn shame they didn't latch onto that as a live staple instead of Turbo Lover.

[KevShmev]

Out in the Cold is the clear standout on Turbo, IMO.

Reckless and Turbo Lover are both good.  Hot for Love is pretty good.

The rest is mostly blah.

In Boogie Nights, when Dirk is pimping himself out, the gay-basher that pulls up in the truck is listening to Jawbreaker. Thought that was a clever touch.

Damn, I never noticed that.

[jjrock88]

Turbo on a whole IMO is fabulous.

I agree

Out in the Cold and Reckless are the standouts for me

[Mosh]

I think it's reactionary to themselves too. Take Redeemer for example, definitely a reaction to the lukewarm reception for Nostradamus.

Turbo isn't bad, Out In the Cold is one of their best songs.

I saw Nostradamus as them actually trying to do their own thing. When it didn't work out they went back to what was expected. That's still a reaction to the audience, though. However the albums since Rob's return have been less reactionary to the popular music of the time. Seems now they just want to recreate what made them famous, which is understandable.

And OitC is a great song. It's a damn shame they didn't latch onto that as a live staple instead of Turbo Lover.

Exactly what I'm saying.

That said, I think it's also possible that they saw Iron Maiden's success with taking more progressive directions while still keeping the fans mostly on board and wanted to try the same thing, but with less successful results.

I saw two shows on the Epitaph tour and there were literally only two songs where most of the audience sat down (even from the back): the Rocka Rolla song and Turbo Lover. I was actually surprised since that song was a minor hit for them in the USA.

[MirrorMask]

That's weird, whenever I see Judas Priest and they play Turbo Lover, the crowd is very well into it.

[wolfking]

It's a great song IMO.

[Stadler]

I think it's reactionary to themselves too. Take Redeemer for example, definitely a reaction to the lukewarm reception for Nostradamus.

Turbo isn't bad, Out In the Cold is one of their best songs.

I saw Nostradamus as them actually trying to do their own thing. When it didn't work out they went back to what was expected. That's still a reaction to the audience, though. However the albums since Rob's return have been less reactionary to the popular music of the time. Seems now they just want to recreate what made them famous, which is understandable.

And OitC is a great song. It's a damn shame they didn't latch onto that as a live staple instead of Turbo Lover.

Exactly what I'm saying.

That said, I think it's also possible that they saw Iron Maiden's success with taking more progressive directions while still keeping the fans mostly on board and wanted to try the same thing, but with less successful results.

I saw two shows on the Epitaph tour and there were literally only two songs where most of the audience sat down (even from the back): the Rocka Rolla song and Turbo Lover. I was actually surprised since that song was a minor hit for them in the USA.

Just an outside observation, though, but the post-reunion Maiden is just Maiden keying on one specific aspect of what they've done before.  "Nostradamus" was a whole new ball of wax.   They'd never done a concept album, never done a "suite" of songs (unless you count that whole "Winter" thing, the low-point of what is otherwise an excellent debut), never done anything even remotely prog.    Nostradamus was very different.   I can't say that "A Matter of Life And Death" is radically different than the rest of the catalogue.   

[Mosh]

True, they were also on that trajectory since the mid 90s, so that sound didn't come out of nowhere. Maybe Priest didn't think about that though.
Though I think a lot of pre-Killing Machine Priest had proggy tendencies and they played around with more conceptual ideas. That was early for Priest however and for them to do something like that this late in their career would be like Maiden getting Paul Di'Anno back and making an aggressive. punk influenced album.

I think the biggest misstep with Nostradamus was the lack of confidence the band had in it. Sure they seemed pretty enthusiastic about it when it was brand new but they hardly played it any songs from it live when it really should've been presented in its entirety at some point. Even just as a one off. Sorry to bring up Maiden again, but compare that to Maiden's confidence in their new material. They defy anyone who thinks their prime ended in 1988 and that their best work is still coming. Not only do they say that, but they show it too by playing so much of the new material live. Priest don't generate that excitement with their new material anymore. Even with Redeemer of Souls, Priest only did 3 songs when just about any of them would work in the setlist. Maiden did 6 new songs on their last tour, three of them being at least 8 minutes long.

Re Turbo: It's a good song but I don't think it has the right energy live.

[El Barto]

Yeah, Priest's setlists are very predictable and set in stone. And I suspect confidence does have something to do with it. Certainly in whether the crowd will like it, but also whether or not they can pull it off. I saw them a few years ago when Whitesnake was opening. Coverdale canceled a few dates, including ours, and the expectation was that they'd bust out a couple of more songs to kill some time. Nope. Same 90 minute set and we're in the car before 2200. It's not like they were having to learn Learning to Live during the soundcheck or anything. Stepping out of their comfort zone just doesn't appear to be within their abilities.

[MirrorMask]

I think the biggest misstep with Nostradamus was the lack of confidence the band had in it. Sure they seemed pretty enthusiastic about it when it was brand new but they hardly played it any songs from it live when it really should've been presented in its entirety at some point.

They only played two songs: Prophecy and Death. Out of all the possible choices, they went with a relatively lackluster midtempo? why oh why they didn't even try the title track for example??? We'll never know.

[Stadler]

Yeah, Priest's setlists are very predictable and set in stone. And I suspect confidence does have something to do with it. Certainly in whether the crowd will like it, but also whether or not they can pull it off. I saw them a few years ago when Whitesnake was opening. Coverdale canceled a few dates, including ours, and the expectation was that they'd bust out a couple of more songs to kill some time. Nope. Same 90 minute set and we're in the car before 2200. It's not like they were having to learn Learning to Live during the soundcheck or anything. Stepping out of their comfort zone just doesn't appear to be within their abilities.

This is going to seem like I'm slagging them, and I don't mean it that way, since I'm a fan.   I really am.  But...

I have a couple of songbooks from back in the '80's, and in one of them is a short interview, and Glenn said something like "we play well beneath our abilities, because we're interested in playing what is right for the song."  He meant it to say that the band was about songs and music, not technique and flash, but when you couple it with the static setlists, and the - in my opinion only - sort of cartoonish "We're METTLE (because that's how Rob pronounces it in his Midlands accent) to the core, eat my leather!" - image, and it's hard to not get the faint whiff of "calculation" to the whole thing.  Like it's all an act.   Again, not a bash, because their "act" is still better than 90% of the people that so-called "live it", but still. 

For what it's worth, I sometimes feel the same way about AC/DC.    I would love to have Angus, Malcolm, KK, Glenn, Rob and Brian sitting around a campfire with a couple cases and see what happens.  I bet it would be mindblowing, and there wouldn't be one song with "Rock" in the title. 

[TAC]

Well, that's why I am so conflicted about Judas Priest. It's obvious they have played well below their abilities over the years, and I think that's why I have never rated them as a top band of mine, legends that they are.

[Mosh]

Yea, I'm not surprised to read that. It works for them, but it prevents them from having that extra special thing that makes me love bands like Maiden so much.

I think part of it has to do with them getting mixed receptions whenever they strayed from the straight forward Metal sound. If you look at their trajectory in the 70s: the less progressive and more straightforward Metal they got, the better commercial success they had. They really created their niche in the early 80s and whenever they drastically changed their sound (Turbo, Jugulator, Nostradamus) there was backlash from the fans. At this point, they probably think the only thing that will please fans is that British Steel/Screaming For Vengeance styled straightforward Metal sound. 

[Stadler]

But isn't that where Steve Harris and Rod Smallwood come in?   I think they are textbook examples of how to run a band:  one vision, and if you're not with the program, so be it.   There's no "right" to be in Maiden, and you are free to pursue your muse elsewhere (to me, it's not a coincidence that even Adrian, and to a lesser extent Bruce) didn't light up the sky with their extra-Maiden work, even if I happen to enjoy the shit out of both).  Here's our setlsit:  we're playing the whole new album top to bottom, be there or be square.   Oh, wait, this tour?  We're reimagining the World Slavery Tour, be there or be square. 

I think the Rob/Glenn/KK/Julie Andrews or whatever her name is overthink the "commercial" aspect of things a little too much, in my opinion.  The remasters were all about "THE FANS" - the fans this, the fans that - but when the push came to the shove, there were a handful of unreleased songs (I think there were four or so sprinkled across the entire catalogue, one per remaster) I think two or three shows broken up into individual songs on each.   Usually listed - sloppily - as "recorded somewhere across the world between '82 and '88".  They didn't even restore the "full" Unleashed in the East (there is still "Starbreaker" I think that is unreleased; don't quote me on the title, but there is one song that was on a 12" that didn't make the re-released CD).   Really?   

Maiden remasters?   The first wave was every single, every b-side, and then later a box with (most) every b-side and four complete shows including the LEGENDARY live at Hammersmith on the Beast tour.   

I know it's probably not a fair compare, but I just think Maiden delivers 115% and Priest gets to the high 90's, and maybe they'd be more accepted when they stepped out if it rang a little truer and purer.   Again, observation, not criticism. 

[TAC]

I wonder what the division of power is in JP.

What Iron Maiden has been able to do over the last 17 years is nothing short of amazing.

[El Barto]

@Stadler   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx-4ae6ZKBQ

Never much cared for the song, but Julie Andrews sings very well, and of course none of us are worthy to even breath the same air as Les Binks.

[Stadler]

@Stadler   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx-4ae6ZKBQ

Never much cared for the song, but Julie Andrews sings very well, and of course none of us are worthy to even breath the same air as Les Binks.

The first 45 seconds of that is about as metal as metal gets. 

I love that song and that era.   That might have kicked off a Priest binge, right there. 

[wolfking]

Starbreaker is a brilliant song.

[jjrock88]

Starbreaker is a brilliant song.

All this talk of the Sin After Sin album; I think I'm going to spin it soon

[wolfking]

Starbreaker is a brilliant song.

All this talk of the Sin After Sin album; I think I'm going to spin it soon

 

[Imaginos]

It's never a bad time to listen to Sin After Sin

[TAC]

Ok, I'm going through Sin After Sin tonight. I've always liked Call For The Priest. It actually reminds me of Desolation Boulevard era Sweet.

[El Barto]

I don't think it's a bad album. I just think it's a good album sandwiched between their two masterpieces. None of it really works for me on the level that Sad Wings or Stained Class does.