ITPOE pt. 2

[Darkes7]

The Ministry of Lost Souls (which gives a bit of a Learning to Live type of ending).

No.

This.  They both fade out, but are NOTHING alike otherwise.

-J

They fade out with a melodic guitar solo. I don't know how they can be more similar than that (except maybe being the exact same solo).

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't call that a solo at the end of "Learning to Live."  That is more or less a guitar lead, and the vocal harmonies on the studio version are just as important when it comes to the climax of the song.  "Ministry..." is a long guitar solo, unquestioned.  I don't really see the similarity.

[tri.ad]

I wouldn't call that a solo at the end of "Learning to Live."  That is more or less a guitar lead, and the vocal harmonies on the studio version are just as important when it comes to the climax of the song.  "Ministry..." is a long guitar solo, unquestioned.  I don't really see the similarity.

Exactly this. Plus, the LTL ending doesn't try too hard to be epic or emotional (which is not to say that it isn't), which can't be really said about the TMOLS ending imo.

[TAC]

The graceful ending to LTL is tough to beat. The only thing that comes close is the end of TBOT.

[Jamesman42]

I wouldn't call that a solo at the end of "Learning to Live."  That is more or less a guitar lead, and the vocal harmonies on the studio version are just as important when it comes to the climax of the song.  "Ministry..." is a long guitar solo, unquestioned.  I don't really see the similarity.

Exactly this. Plus, the LTL ending doesn't try too hard to be epic or emotional (which is not to say that it isn't), which can't be really said about the TMOLS ending imo.

This. Also, TMOLS is lame.

[Dublagent66]

Well, they do have some similarities.  They're both guitar lead outros and repititious in nature.  The major difference is TMOLS goes through several key changes.  I consider them both epic endings.

[Darkes7]

Seriously, how do you expect me to be full of love and patience for this when you simply fucking CAN'T reply without pointing out how awesome and perfect LTL is and how lame and bloated TMOLS is?

They're not identical, they're similar. The only DT song that ends in similar way is TBOT but it's a totally different type of song. LTL and TMOLS are both epic and atmospheric but not in the same way. I haven't said more. Stop claiming I have.

[orcus116]

Personally the buildup at the end of Learning To Live far exceeds the one in TMOLS. There is something about the layering of instruments that is way more awe inspiring.

I know the line between what is and is not an "epic" gets a bit blurry, but I went with only the longer, traditionally-considered epics and did not include songs like ANTR

To each his own but if you're gonna shun a song like ANTR for not being an epic (very correctly), why start off your playlist with an equally similar song in The Count of Tuscany?

I don't think they're similar at all.

They're not but while ANTR is pretty much a long DT song and clearly not an epic and neither is TCOT. I feel like most people are labeling it one because people are searching for an epic on each album for some reason.

[Adami]

Wait, when did a discussion about ITPOE 2 turn into a debate about which is better between LTL and TMOLS?

[hefdaddy42]

Seriously, how do you expect me to be full of love and patience for this when you simply fucking CAN'T reply without pointing out how awesome and perfect LTL is and how lame and bloated TMOLS is?

Ay ay ay

They're not identical, they're similar. The only DT song that ends in similar way is TBOT but it's a totally different type of song. LTL and TMOLS are both epic and atmospheric but not in the same way. I haven't said more. Stop claiming I have.

Who are you addressing?  I don't see anyone claiming you said something you didn't say.

[orcus116]

Wait, when did a discussion about ITPOE 2 turn into a debate about which is better between LTL and TMOLS?

Are there any threads on this forum that way on topic?

[Ben_Jamin]

I think people would love it way more if it wasn't split into 2.

[The Letter M]

I think people would love it way more if it wasn't split into 2.

QFT. I said something similar in my previous reply in this thread... what if their other epics (like ACOS and 8VM) had been split across an album into two parts... would they have been treated the same way as ITPOE? Or would they still be loved? Who is to say because we won't ever know, but I do believe had ITPOE been one piece, it may have been more favored as a whole track on the album, rather than debated upon Part 1 vs. Part 2 type debates.

-Marc.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think people would love it way more if it wasn't split into 2.

QFT. I said something similar in my previous reply in this thread... what if their other epics (like ACOS and 8VM) had been split across an album into two parts... would they have been treated the same way as ITPOE? Or would they still be loved? Who is to say because we won't ever know, but I do believe had ITPOE been one piece, it may have been more favored as a whole track on the album, rather than debated upon Part 1 vs. Part 2 type debates.

-Marc.

Exactly, like if ACOS was split like 6DOIT.

[Dublagent66]

I think people would love it way more if it wasn't split into 2.

QFT. I said something similar in my previous reply in this thread... what if their other epics (like ACOS and 8VM) had been split across an album into two parts... would they have been treated the same way as ITPOE? Or would they still be loved? Who is to say because we won't ever know, but I do believe had ITPOE been one piece, it may have been more favored as a whole track on the album, rather than debated upon Part 1 vs. Part 2 type debates.

-Marc.

I agree.  Thanks to playlists, my PSP Go splices them together nicely.  I like it much better listening straight through.

Exactly, like if ACOS was split like 6DOIT.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you. 6DOIT isn't split.

[Ben_Jamin]

I meant each section is it's own track

[Jamesman42]

... clearly not an epic and neither is TCOT.

TCOT not an epic? I don't know about that. I think it's a fine, subjective line that the song finds itself upon. I think it's an epic (in the way SDOIT, ACOS, 8VM, and ITPOE is an epic). I view it differently than TGP and INTOG and Trial of Tears, which are near-epics, but are really just long songs with a good many movements. TCOT has something else, it seems. Just my $0.02.

[chrisbDTM]

i LOVE the chant part


i was surprised that at the 2 SC tour shows i went to practically no one around me knew the words


LORD!

[orcus116]

... clearly not an epic and neither is TCOT.

TCOT not an epic? I don't know about that. I think it's a fine, subjective line that the song finds itself upon. I think it's an epic (in the way SDOIT, ACOS, 8VM, and ITPOE is an epic). I view it differently than TGP and INTOG and Trial of Tears, which are near-epics, but are really just long songs with a good many movements. TCOT has something else, it seems. Just my $0.02.

It is something else but it's still more in the latter category you mentioned. There are some good movements (namely the intro and the E-bow parts which are fantastic) but overall there is nothing about the song that screams epic. In fact this band hasn't really produced many real epics despite people hearing something like ITPOE and saying "oh it's a really long song, it must be an epic". To me an epic is a unique musical journey that is more often than not broken up into several succinct parts that carries a song. Lyrics are huge in this which is why TCOT is ruined. The stupid cheesiness rips me out of the song so much that I can't take whatever music that is being played overtop of it seriously.