Author Topic: The most talented member of DT? (Read 12044 times)

Adami · « **Reply #35 on:** July 04, 2010, 06:28:21 PM »

Quote from: BRGM on July 04, 2010, 06:02:21 PM

Am I like the only one who does almost not care at all about the lyrics? I listen to DT cuz of the music...that's it, lyrics aren't important, they're just there so the singer can sing something

......get out

Seventh Son · « **Reply #36 on:** July 04, 2010, 07:06:12 PM »

John Myung. The man wrote Learning to Live and Trail of Tears for fucks sake.

That being said, I don't put too much stock into lyrics. Its appreciated when you have great lyrics, but its not a necessity for me. I can enjoy music with mediocre/bad lyrics as long as some awesome riffs are present to make up for it.

Adami · « **Reply #37 on:** July 04, 2010, 07:19:36 PM »

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 07:06:12 PM

John Myung. The man wrote Learning to Live and Trail of Tears for fucks sake.

That being said, I don't put too much stock into lyrics. Its appreciated when you have great lyrics, but its not a necessity for me. I can enjoy music with mediocre/bad lyrics as long as some awesome riffs are present to make up for it.

Isn't that like saying movies don't need good dialouge? As long as they look pretty?

Sigz · « **Reply #38 on:** July 04, 2010, 07:24:40 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 07:19:36 PM

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
John Myung. The man wrote Learning to Live and Trail of Tears for fucks sake.

That being said, I don't put too much stock into lyrics. Its appreciated when you have great lyrics, but its not a necessity for me. I can enjoy music with mediocre/bad lyrics as long as some awesome riffs are present to make up for it.

Isn't that like saying movies don't need good dialouge? As long as they look pretty?

No, because music is able communicate feelings without words. It can use words to do so, but it's not a necessity. I'm with Seventh Son, lyrics are only secondary to me. They can make a good song great or they can drag a song down if they're bad or are delivered poorly (looking at you TBOT and TCOT), but for the most part they're just part of the music to me, nothing more.

Seventh Son · « **Reply #39 on:** July 04, 2010, 08:25:20 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 07:19:36 PM

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
John Myung. The man wrote Learning to Live and Trail of Tears for fucks sake.

That being said, I don't put too much stock into lyrics. Its appreciated when you have great lyrics, but its not a necessity for me. I can enjoy music with mediocre/bad lyrics as long as some awesome riffs are present to make up for it.

Isn't that like saying movies don't need good dialouge? As long as they look pretty?

Actually quite the opposite. A movie doesn't need fancy actors to be good, as long as the writing/plot is great.

Adami · « **Reply #40 on:** July 04, 2010, 08:34:53 PM »

Yea, but I didn't say anything like that.

Seventh Son · « **Reply #41 on:** July 04, 2010, 08:36:52 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 08:34:53 PM

Yea, but I didn't say anything like that.

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 07:19:36 PM

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
John Myung. The man wrote Learning to Live and Trail of Tears for fucks sake.

That being said, I don't put too much stock into lyrics. Its appreciated when you have great lyrics, but its not a necessity for me. I can enjoy music with mediocre/bad lyrics as long as some awesome riffs are present to make up for it.

Isn't that like saying movies don't need good dialouge? As long as they look pretty?

?

Adami · « **Reply #42 on:** July 04, 2010, 08:45:49 PM »

Yea, but you just took the terms I used and switched them around to argue a point I never made.

You compared words to music and fancy actors to lyrics. I compared music to imagery and words to....words.

reneranucci · « **Reply #43 on:** July 04, 2010, 08:49:14 PM »

Quote from: ZBomber on July 04, 2010, 04:58:13 PM

JR probably has the most raw talent, but I think JP utilizes his talent better than anyone else in the band.

Agreed 100% with this.

Seventh Son · « **Reply #44 on:** July 04, 2010, 08:54:16 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 08:45:49 PM

Yea, but you just took the terms I used and switched them around to argue a point I never made.

You compared words to music and fancy actors to lyrics. I compared music to imagery and words to....words.

I compared them because lyrics are the most obvious thing in a song, likewise to a movie the most obvious thing would be the big-name actors.

What really matters in a movie though, is the writing. Like in a song, the most important thing is well-written music.

Adami · « **Reply #45 on:** July 04, 2010, 09:04:06 PM »

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 08:54:16 PM

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 08:45:49 PM
Yea, but you just took the terms I used and switched them around to argue a point I never made.

You compared words to music and fancy actors to lyrics. I compared music to imagery and words to....words.

I compared them because lyrics are the most obvious thing in a song, likewise to a movie the most obvious thing would be the big-name actors.

What really matters in a movie though, is the writing. Like in a song, the most important thing is well-written music.

At this point we're not even arguing the same point. I give up.

Seventh Son · « **Reply #46 on:** July 04, 2010, 09:46:31 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 09:04:06 PM

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 08:45:49 PM
Yea, but you just took the terms I used and switched them around to argue a point I never made.

You compared words to music and fancy actors to lyrics. I compared music to imagery and words to....words.

I compared them because lyrics are the most obvious thing in a song, likewise to a movie the most obvious thing would be the big-name actors.

What really matters in a movie though, is the writing. Like in a song, the most important thing is well-written music.

At this point we're not even arguing the same point. I give up.

Its not that hard of a concept.

Song lyrics = actors
Music = writing

That's the comparison I'm making, because when it comes to music, lyrics are the most obvious thing, as is the case in a movie with actors. However, in my opinion, the most important thing in a song is well-written music as the most important thing in a movie is great writing.

I honestly don't think its a difficult grasp to get.....

Adami · « **Reply #47 on:** July 04, 2010, 09:51:41 PM »

...........fine, you're just taking elements of my analogy and changing them around, ignoring my analogy and creating your own. Thus not the same thing. If I compare Petruccis playing to his soul and then you compare his soul to a ham sandwich, we're no longer on the same page. I don't care either. You think lyrics aren't important, awesome, I think they're important, go me. The end.

Seventh Son · « **Reply #48 on:** July 04, 2010, 09:55:01 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 04, 2010, 09:51:41 PM

...........fine, you're just taking elements of my analogy and changing them around, ignoring my analogy and creating your own. Thus not the same thing. If I compare Petruccis playing to his soul and then you compare his soul to a ham sandwich, we're no longer on the same page. I don't care either. You think lyrics aren't important, awesome, I think they're important, go me. The end.

I mentioned that my analogy was the exact opposite of yours to begin with.

And I find that once you get a big enough library, its just too hard to care to look up the lyrics to every song you listen to. Music speaks infinitely more volumes than written word is capable of.

KevShmev · « **Reply #49 on:** July 04, 2010, 10:37:21 PM »

Like I said in the other thread, not caring about the lyrics is like watching a movie and not caring about the dialogue. If you don't pay attention to the lyrics and just to the music, you are missing out on a lot of the enjoyment.

Seventh Son · « **Reply #50 on:** July 04, 2010, 11:23:40 PM »

Quote from: KevShmev on July 04, 2010, 10:37:21 PM

Like I said in the other thread, not caring about the lyrics is like watching a movie and not caring about the dialogue. If you don't pay attention to the lyrics and just to the music, you are missing out on a lot of the enjoyment.

Not really.

One of my favorite songs ever would have to be Megadeth - Holy Wars. And honestly, the lyrics are crap. But that doesn't matter because the opening riff is one of the greatest things ever conjured up.

I mean, would you consider BROTHER WILL KILL BROTHER good lyricism?

j · « **Reply #51 on:** July 05, 2010, 01:50:14 AM »

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 04, 2010, 09:46:31 PM

Its not that hard of a concept.

Song lyrics = actors
Music = writing

That's the comparison I'm making, because when it comes to music, lyrics are the most obvious thing, as is the case in a movie with actors. However, in my opinion, the most important thing in a song is well-written music as the most important thing in a movie is great writing.

I honestly don't think its a difficult grasp to get.....

Sorry bro, I don't understand this analogy (lyrics and actors are the "most obvious thing"?). A better one might be:

Lyrics = writing
Music = cinematography

Actually that's still kind of a shitty analogy. But you get the point: both are important components, but neither sufficient (assuming the song HAS lyrics to begin with). And they're important for different reasons, because they have different purposes. And a song/movie can be strong enough in one area to make you forgive weaknesses in the other. Etc.

-J

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 05, 2010, 04:51:43 AM »

Lyrics = dialogue

That was Adami's point the whole time. And he's right. The music would be the special effects and cinematography, but the lyrics = what the actors are actually saying. Because they are, you know, what the singer is actually saying.

BRGM · « **Reply #53 on:** July 05, 2010, 10:17:38 AM »

...u're saying that lyrics are very important...there are no lyrics in the instrumental songs!

I still like'em ^^

rumborak · « **Reply #54 on:** July 05, 2010, 10:29:32 AM »

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on July 05, 2010, 04:51:43 AM

Lyrics = dialogue

That was Adami's point the whole time. And he's right. The music would be the special effects and cinematography, but the lyrics = what the actors are actually saying. Because they are, you know, what the singer is actually saying.

I don't think the analogy works very well. No movie can stand on its own with just special effects and cinematography, whereas we regularly vote songs without lyrics into as the best of DT and other bands.
Lyrics are an additional dimension to the songs, but (luckily) in DT's case the music can hold its own. Because, jeez, imagine having to focus more on DT's lyrics because the music isn't that great.

rumborak

KevShmev · « **Reply #55 on:** July 05, 2010, 10:52:49 AM »

I would submit that the storytelling and lyrics/dialogue are not always gonna be of the same quality.

For example, The Matrix is a great story, but the dialogue ranges from mediocre to average.

Comparatively, "The Best of Times" is a great thing to write about, the life of one's father who is dying, but the actual lyrics are not what I would call great.

Conversely, many would say that the subject matter of some of Rush's early material was somewhat cheesy, the fantasy stuff, but Peart's actual lyrics were almost always brilliantly written, even if it was about something that wasn't a great story, per se.

Does that make sense?

reneranucci · « **Reply #56 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:29:42 AM »

Quote from: Jabba the rak on July 05, 2010, 10:29:32 AM

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on July 05, 2010, 04:51:43 AM
Lyrics = dialogue

That was Adami's point the whole time. And he's right. The music would be the special effects and cinematography, but the lyrics = what the actors are actually saying. Because they are, you know, what the singer is actually saying.

I don't think the analogy works very well. No movie can stand on its own with just special effects and cinematography, whereas we regularly vote songs without lyrics into as the best of DT and other bands.
Lyrics are an additional dimension to the songs, but (luckily) in DT's case the music can hold its own. Because, jeez, imagine having to focus more on DT's lyrics because the music isn't that great.

rumborak

Agreed. I listened to DT for the first time without any understanding of the English language and it was an inmensely enjoyable experience. Not knowing the lyrics didn´t detract from it, the music and vocal melodies were awesome.

reneranucci · « **Reply #57 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:30:28 AM »

Hasn´t this thread experienced a big derailment?

Seventh Son · « **Reply #58 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:35:04 AM »

Quote from: reneranucci on July 05, 2010, 11:30:28 AM

Hasn´t this thread experienced a big derailment?

That would be the understatement of the century

As I said before, gotta be John Myung.

MetalManiac666 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 06, 2010, 01:23:46 AM »

Raw talent = JR
Best utilizes talent = JP

AwakeFromOctavarium · « **Reply #60 on:** July 06, 2010, 03:44:00 AM »

I agree with the post above. I've never heard a guitarist who plays like John Petrucci. You can mimic, but he has a truly original playing style.

It's very apparent when you listen to his Suspended Animation.

Dream Team · « **Reply #61 on:** July 06, 2010, 05:20:41 AM »

Rudess is the most talented. Petrucci is - by far - the most important and indispensable member.

Raiden · « **Reply #62 on:** July 07, 2010, 07:14:25 PM »

Jordan, in my opinion it's is keyboard parts that make dream theater songs so great, without him they would be just another band, but he gives them the edge, no dis respect to the over amazing talent they all have.