Author Topic: Losing the love for Prog-Metal  (Read 10638 times)

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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2010, 08:53:06 PM »
I would never say they are metal. I just don't see them as a metal band. Metal for me incorporates more than just heaviness, it has to have the air of being, well, metal :metal. Tool doesn't have that.
What exactly does that mean? If Tool doesn't count as metal, then a lot of other bands don't as well...

Bands like Metallica, Megadeth, etc. just have a presence of Metal. DT and other Prog Metal bands have that same presence, but with prog thrown in. Tool doesn't have that. They just don't. They deff have Progressive elements though, so I'd probably agree with calling them just "Progressive"
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Offline LTE

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2010, 08:53:27 PM »
I would never say they are metal. I just don't see them as a metal band. Metal for me incorporates more than just heaviness, it has to have the air of being, well, metal :metal. Tool doesn't have that.
What exactly does that mean? If Tool doesn't count as metal, then a lot of other bands don't as well...

Tool is too deep and pretentious to be metal.
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Offline zxlkho

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2010, 08:55:26 PM »
I would never say they are metal. I just don't see them as a metal band. Metal for me incorporates more than just heaviness, it has to have the air of being, well, metal :metal. Tool doesn't have that.
What exactly does that mean? If Tool doesn't count as metal, then a lot of other bands don't as well...

Bands like Metallica, Megadeth, etc. just have a presence of Metal. DT and other Prog Metal bands have that same presence, but with prog thrown in. Tool doesn't have that. They just don't. They deff have Progressive elements though, so I'd probably agree with calling them just "Progressive"
Hahah, I guess I'm okay with that. As long as they aren't "alternative rock".
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2010, 09:12:28 PM »
Yeah Voxyn, you're probably cycling through a music phase.

Right now I've been on a hard rock phase. Thrice, Alter Bridge, etc.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2010, 09:12:46 PM »
DT is probably the only all-out prog metal I listen to regularly.  

I would never call Opeth or Devin Townsend prog metal; both are metal with progressive tendencies (yes, there is a difference).

As for PT, they are not metal at all, despite having the occasional metal moments, so they don't count.

I guess some would call Queensryche prog metal, but even that is a bit of a stretch.

So, yeah, DT is it.  

Offline Portrucci

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2010, 09:41:51 PM »
That was exactly the same situation for me about a year ago. I use to exclusively listen to Prog Metal/Rock, thinking that it is surely the best genre of music and it satisfied all my listening needs. Then for a month or so, I decided to put my pretensions to the side, and actually give other genres an honest go. And I loved them. Hip-hop, Electronic, Indie, Black Metal...there is a plethora of creative, original and ground-breaking artists in all these genres. To be honest, I no longer really care about what other people listen to...if they want to listen to one genre, that's fine. Just do what makes you happy. But if you have always had a little feeling in the back of your head that you want to truly experience the breath of humans creative contribution to music, then you will have to sift through a lot of junk, through a lot of genres...but my god is it worth it.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2010, 09:43:20 PM »
I don't like most prog-metal either. More often than not it just serves as a platform to display technicality without songwriting.

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2010, 09:49:26 PM »
There are very few prog metal bands I listen to anymore and virtually no prog rock; my interest has just severly dropped over the last two years or so -interestingly, since about the time I joined the board.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2010, 09:53:37 PM »
After awhile you start to realize that outside of a very select few bands prog metal is a shallow genre. Like rumborak said, it's pretty much a genre of all show and no substance.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2010, 09:54:02 PM »
Yeah, when I was first really getting into DT, prog/prog metal was all I'd listen to for like a year.  Those listening habits have expanded greatly beyond those (in terms of rock genres anyway, I guess), but I'm still a proghead for listening to bands like Devin (some of his material, anyway), Coheed, Muse, PT, and Rush more and more, while bands like DT and Yes, while I still love them, have been getting less listens than in the past.

Not to mention that LOTS of prog metal is pretty bad.

Offline Gadough

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2010, 10:12:17 PM »
I'm interested to know what prog metal bands all of you think are bad. I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, I'm actually curious. I don't listen to much prog metal outside of the "big names" of the genre (DT, Opeth, PoS, Queensryche, Symphony X, etc). Provide me with a youtube link or two that exemplifies this all-show-no-substance shitty prog metal you're all raving about.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2010, 10:13:57 PM »
Vanden Plas
Shadow Gallery
Royal Hunt

Listen to any or all of those bands for some REALLY BAD prog metal.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2010, 10:17:44 PM »
I wouldn't say its always "all show no substance," just for me a lot of the time it seems generic, which is what rock music, especially prog, SHOULDN'T be.  Circus Maximus and Symphony X are the too biggest offenders on my list.  At times, PoS fits in that category, IMO.

EDIT: and the ones Kev just ninja posted.

Offline Gadough

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2010, 10:18:26 PM »
Vanden Plas
Shadow Gallery
Royal Hunt

Listen to any or all of those bands for some REALLY BAD prog metal.

Ahh, I've seen several people on this board give Nick tons of shit for liking Vanden Plas. I'll check them out :D
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2010, 10:19:43 PM »
Circus Maximus and Pagans Mind come to mind right away as well. I'd also consider Symphony X to encompass everything that's terrible about prog metal despite having some undeniably talented guitar work.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2010, 10:23:15 PM »
Ah, Pagan's Mind is another terrible one...forgot about them (which is probably a good thing :lol).

When I think of cheesy prog metal, I think of:

-Cheesy and very synthy-sounding keyboard leads and solos
-Horrible drum sound, usually very thin-sounding, and plenty of double bass drumming (Ayreon's THE is a really bad offender in this regard)


Offline orcus116

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2010, 10:24:23 PM »
Horrible lyrics is another one.

Offline The Awesome

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2010, 10:34:02 PM »
Vanden Plas

I discovered Christ 0 a few months ago, and it's great. I haven't heard much of their other stuff yet, though.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2010, 12:24:11 AM »
Horrible lyrics is another one.

There almost seems to be a competition going on in that regard. And DT is right in the midst of it.

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Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2010, 04:49:42 AM »
The whole "Prog" is quite vague anyway.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2010, 05:18:45 AM »
Its the same for me, my interest in progressive music has kinda faded with time.
Still, i don't have a problem listening to Porcupine Tree, Anathema or Opeth (which all should be considered progressive to some extent), but like with Dream Theater, there is no urge for me to play it.
Sure as you said, i enjoy it if it comes up in my Spotify shuffle, but apart from it i've lost interest.
But music-taste kinda comes and goes, i feel i'm making the best of it by listening to a lot of other stuff instead, and in the end there's nothing i love more then PT and their way of infusing several music-genres into one.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2010, 05:24:11 AM »
After awhile you start to realize that outside of a very select few bands prog metal is a shallow genre. Like rumborak said, it's pretty much a genre of all show and no substance.

It's this, but there's also such a tryhard seriousness to all the music which makes it even worse. Like if I found out it was one big inside joke I would probably be able to enjoy it more.

Offline Darkes7

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2010, 05:43:46 AM »
I agree with this, if only because prog metal is so easy to fuck up. Too many bands seem to think "let's get high, go through a history or philosophy book, write down the first shit that comes to mind for lyrics to be deep and throw in an annoying wanky guitar/keyboard duel, then make the songs two or three times as long as they need to be" is the formula for success.
I don't like most prog-metal either. More often than not it just serves as a platform to display technicality without songwriting.

rumborak
If you honestly believe in this, then you've heard very, very little progressive metal. This is worse than the "metal is the genre where you play loud and scream a lot" stereotype.

EDIT
One thing I somehow missed...
DT is probably the only all-out prog metal I listen to regularly. 

I would never call Opeth or Devin Townsend prog metal; both are metal with progressive tendencies (yes, there is a difference).

As for PT, they are not metal at all, despite having the occasional metal moments, so they don't count.

I guess some would call Queensryche prog metal, but even that is a bit of a stretch.

So, yeah, DT is it. 
The kind of reasoning I've heard many times already as well. "Progressive metal is uncreative and uninteresting because all bands sound the same and all are just technical show-off. ...no, this band is not progressive metal, because they don't sound like all of the same progressive metal bands and are not a technical show-off. A band can only be progressive metal if it sounds like all of the same progressive metal bands!" Interesting thinking, the perpetuum mobile kind. If you're going the above way - indeed, progressive metal is the most boring and uninteresting genre ever. ::)

Progressive metal doesn't have to sound like the first bands considered progressive metal, progressive metal means... gasp... music which is both progressive and metal. Opeth definitely counts in every possible way. Haven't heard that much from Devin Townsend but what I've heard also makes me feel it counts. There are lots of other examples of bands who sound really unique and can be considered progressive metal. But that doesn't exactly suit the "I'm so open-minded, I listen to anything but progressive metal on a progressive metal-related board" style, right?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 07:01:51 AM by Darkes7 »

Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2010, 07:12:15 AM »
Devin Townsend is not a Prog Metal act in the same way that PT is not a Prog Rock act. Both take a core genre (In Devin's case, metal; in PT's, rock) and expand on it by adding other influences and genres. In both cases, prog happens to be a prominent influence, and the fan bases are similar, but that does not make them Prog Metal and Prog Rock.

I'm not so sure I'd jump to agreeing that Opeth isn't Prog Metal, but they are also similar in that they are a metal band first, although they definitely have more Prog tendencies than PT and Devin.
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Offline Darkes7

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2010, 07:17:37 AM »
Porcupine Tree is definitely progressive rock. It's bands that make the genre, not genre that makes the bands. And there's no stronger modern symbol of progressive rock than Porcupine Tree. Same goes for other bands.

Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2010, 07:19:07 AM »
Porcupine Tree is definitely progressive rock. It's bands that make the genre, not genre that makes the bands. And there's no stronger modern symbol of progressive rock than Porcupine Tree. Same goes for other bands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-vE5PjyreE

Prog Rock at it's finest.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUR4-KWWl84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eDv7GMEXYU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvUBLp2Uy8o
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Offline Darkes7

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2010, 07:21:17 AM »
This is like giving I Walk Beside You as a pure example of progressive metal. :P [in fact, this is even weirder]

Offline zxlkho

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2010, 07:21:54 AM »
This discussion is awesome because it's the same as the one about Tool.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2010, 07:24:31 AM »
This is like giving I Walk Beside You as a pure example of progressive metal. :P [in fact, this is even weirder]

OK I put more examples ranging through more of their catalog. Their not Prog Rock.

Prog Rock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I2gmT3rarY

Not Prog Rock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBYMWgm1UsY
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Offline zxlkho

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2010, 07:27:43 AM »
OtSoL is a very inaccurate sample of PT's discography.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2010, 07:32:43 AM »
Funny considering OTSOL is a space-rock album, you could've just as well posted a Lily Allen-song saying "not prog-rock". >.>
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Offline Darkes7

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2010, 07:37:09 AM »
Zantera I love you :rollin

Offline Zantera

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2010, 07:39:41 AM »

Offline Ian

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2010, 07:53:51 AM »
Vanden Plas
Shadow Gallery

The God Thing and Carved in Stone beg to differ.


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Offline robwebster

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Re: Losing the love for Prog-Metal
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2010, 08:07:19 AM »
I'm gonna go against the current a bit here, and say that I've had prog in my life too long to properly stay away for good. Or to want to. It's my home genre. Sure, there's a few things I don't like about it as much as I used to, but however much gallivanting I do - and it's an increasing amount - I'm always gonna come back. Fucking love Dream Theater.