Author Topic: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea  (Read 20566 times)

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Offline William Wallace

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #140 on: November 30, 2010, 11:17:53 AM »
America should eventually get out of Asia, but the timing makes no sense so fail article.
Why? It means everybody surrounding North Korea can no longer sit on their asses, but so what? Someone else can play world police for a while.

Online Adami

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #141 on: November 30, 2010, 11:18:37 AM »
America should eventually get out of Asia, but the timing makes no sense so fail article.
Why? It means everybody surrounding North Korea can no longer sit on their asses, but so what? Someone else can play world police for a while.

Do you really want a country like China adopting the world police role?
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #142 on: November 30, 2010, 11:47:42 AM »
Team China World Police
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Online Chino

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #143 on: November 30, 2010, 12:04:38 PM »




Offline William Wallace

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #144 on: November 30, 2010, 12:18:28 PM »
America should eventually get out of Asia, but the timing makes no sense so fail article.
Why? It means everybody surrounding North Korea can no longer sit on their asses, but so what? Someone else can play world police for a while.

Do you really want a country like China adopting the world police role?
On their own border? Yep.

Offline juice

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #145 on: November 30, 2010, 05:52:54 PM »
Sounds more like a security guard or bouncer to me.  :neverusethis:

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #146 on: November 30, 2010, 07:35:28 PM »
No they really only do put that show on for only a few people.  They showed the viewing area, the stadium is completely gutted out except for one section to view the show, and it only has a few chairs/booths for a few dozen people.  And it is a show about the korean revolution.

But I think you're missing the point. The point isn't to put on the show for someone else. The point is to be a part of the show. Gymnastics are very important for a communist country. Having thousands of people working together, making the same exact movements for the same cause, isn't just something that was done so 30 people can be entertained. You've got it backwards. That's like saying an audience is at a concert to entertain the orchestra.  

America should eventually get out of Asia, but the timing makes no sense so fail article.
Why? It means everybody surrounding North Korea can no longer sit on their asses, but so what? Someone else can play world police for a while.

This. Unfortunately, it seems really unlikely that most developed Asian (or European) nations will take responsibility for their homes. Since China already realizes North Korea is a ridiculous nation, I'd have no problem with them taking control of this.

Offline ack44

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #147 on: November 30, 2010, 08:28:36 PM »
Axis of Evil World Tour!!!!!!

wtf is the internet?

Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #148 on: December 01, 2010, 09:22:05 AM »
No they really only do put that show on for only a few people.  They showed the viewing area, the stadium is completely gutted out except for one section to view the show, and it only has a few chairs/booths for a few dozen people.  And it is a show about the korean revolution.

But I think you're missing the point. The point isn't to put on the show for someone else. The point is to be a part of the show. Gymnastics are very important for a communist country. Having thousands of people working together, making the same exact movements for the same cause, isn't just something that was done so 30 people can be entertained. You've got it backwards. That's like saying an audience is at a concert to entertain the orchestra.  

I'm not really sure what you are saying here.  The people in that show are forced to be in it from the time they are small children.  They are taken away from their families and told that this is what they will be doing.  It's not like they are choosing to put on the show, the government tells them they are going to do it.  And then only a minuscule amount of people actually get to watch.  How is that not completely F'd up?  It's pretty much slavery.  I mean all those people's lives being used for the pleasure of only a select few.  It's just a power thing.  It happens because the government says it will.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #149 on: December 01, 2010, 09:35:22 AM »
I'm not sure where your information comes from.  I'm not calling it invalid, mind you.  I'm must pointing out that it's in stark contrast to things I've read (and seen) concerning the pageant.  Allegedly, the participants are all volunteers, and the pictures of the kiddos don't portray them as slaves.  They're there with their parents and seem pretty happy to be involved.  It's also something that happens over two months.  While their might be private showings on some days that involve your 32 people, it's very definitely presented to the public at large.  There are certainly pictures of that [ginormous] stadium jam packed with spectators.  The link I posted a few posts back was from an American tourist, who took tons of pictures, and while he did think the whole thing was a bit creepy, he certainly didn't describe it as you do.  It seems to be an annual festival that performs regularly over a couple of months, and doesn't seem all that different than any Olympic opening ceremony that I've seen.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #150 on: December 01, 2010, 11:44:24 AM »
The info I have is from a show shot for MTV.  They went on a guided tour of NK.  It may not be the perfect source but it looked like they got the real NK experience on it.  At one point they turn the camera around to show the stands where all the people sit.  There basically were no stands.  The sitting area looked like it could fit 200 absolute tops. 

Also, I don't know if I can trust any pictures of people looking happy in NK regarding this show.  I mean, they said on the program that the people were there since they were children to train for this show.  I guarantee they take them out of their homes when they are young and have no choice to be there.  and out of the 100,000s of them in the show, im sure some of them will enjoy it for sure.  But regardless, I do believe they are being forced to be there.  NK is all about controlling their image.  They only let you see what they want you to see of their country.  You don't visit NK, you go on a guided and deserted tour of the country.  It's totally twisted and disturbing.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #151 on: December 01, 2010, 12:29:44 PM »
Unlike the magazine, ViceTV seems to be fairly respectable in their journalistic efforts.  I've seen several of their features as they seem to have been adopted by CNN as outside producers.  However, like all media outlets, they have a keen interest in showing the abnormal aspects of their stories.  There's no point in telling people that "everything is perfectly normal!"  I believe you if you say that they showed this pageant taking place in a small, empty venue, but if they didn't also point out that it regularly occurs in this fucking monstrosity, then I have to question their integrity.  By the way,  the first of these pageants was held in this venue with Madeline Albright in attendance.

Again, the consensus seems to be that the whole thing is a bit creepy, but the role is different that what you've described.  It's actually a propaganda ploy that they're showing to anybody willing to come and see it; +12,000,000 thus far.  It's North Korea's biggest tourist draw now; hence the big-ass stadium.

As for the human rights aspect of it, that's kind of a tricky one.  Nobody seems to be particularly free over there, so I wouldn't really say that they're any more or less free than anybody else.  However, from what I can see, they might actually have a better lot in life than most North Koreans.  By American standards, you could say that they're forced into doing what they do.  In a more relative sense, though, they might be absolutely thrilled to have been awarded that particular role. 

Again, I'm not saying that you're wrong about it.  I just don't think it's anywhere near as bizarre as you've made it out to be, particularly when it's viewed without the filter of standard American values. 
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #152 on: December 01, 2010, 12:55:06 PM »
No the whole thing did take place in that gigantic stadium.  It's the biggest stadium in the world currently.  The problem is, the stands where people are supposed to watch from are practically non existent compared to how big the stadium is.  That is from what I saw of the video.  They watched the full on show in the big ass stadium and no one was there except for a few elites. 

I think its definitely creepy and weird.  I know its just there for the musing of Kim Jong Il.  And it is absolutely propaganda.  Like I said in another post, the whole episode was basically just showing how NK is all about show.  Everything is some kind of display.  The whole country is phony.  They are run by one of the biggest nutjobs in history.  One of the most self obsessed people of history as well.

I could definitely be a bit off in my assessment of the games and all, but I don't think I'm too far off. 

I don't believe NK is as a big a threat as they want everyone to believe.  I also think its interesting what is coming to light right now regarding China.  They apparently aren't too fond of their insane leader and his regime.  So I can't see NK starting a world war or anything.  Hopefully they never get the chance to start up war again without the backing of China.

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Online El Barto

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #153 on: December 01, 2010, 01:20:56 PM »
Yeah, I agree with your general assessment of North Korea.  I just think the pageant isn't any stranger than a lot of other spectacles that take place.  Hell, is it any weirder than our Thanksgiving day parade? Remember that whole "People of the Earth!" thing from the 84 Summer Olympics in LA?  Any Russian military parade.  Air shows of any nation.  Their are tons of weird-ass things that people like to watch.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #154 on: December 01, 2010, 02:11:10 PM »
To me I think the show is cool not weird.  The fact that its soooo many people putting on a show for so few makes it weird to me.  The big stadium dedicated to just this show.  The training for life that goes into it.  That's the weird part to me.  I'm sure the show itself is a great spectacle.  It's just kind of disturbing given the circumstances it takes place in.
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Offline ack44

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #155 on: December 01, 2010, 04:09:11 PM »
America should eventually get out of Asia, but the timing makes no sense so fail article.
Why? It means everybody surrounding North Korea can no longer sit on their asses, but so what? Someone else can play world police for a while.

When Carter tried to pull out of NK, the North gathered troops down at their border and Carter had to fly to Korea and reaffirm their treaty with SK. No president would pull out anyways as it would make them look terrible. The US's presence in Asia is a big contribution to peace, especially when its not invading communist countries. This is a totally different issue than the Middle East.

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Offline emindead

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Re: Tension Between North Korea and South Korea
« Reply #156 on: December 13, 2010, 08:47:26 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/13/AR2010121300133.html

By HYUNG-JIN KIM
The Associated Press
Monday, December 13, 2010; 2:53 AM

NKorea threatens SKorea with nuclear war

SEOUL, South Korea -- North Korea warned Monday that U.S.-South Korean cooperation could bring a nuclear war to the region, as the South began artillery drills amid lingering tension nearly three weeks after the North's deadly shelling of a South Korean island.

The South's naval live-fire drills are scheduled to run Monday through Friday at 27 sites. The regularly scheduled exercises are getting special attention following a North Korean artillery attack on front-line Yeonpyeong Island that killed two South Korean marines and two civilians.

...

South Korea's reaction to that threat:


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