The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[wolfking]

Yeah, I've been spinning it in the car lately also, it's bloody amazing.

I was literally thinking about this album this morning on my way to work. It kind of came and went on me. I need to dig into it.

While TOF is the better album, I think this one has the ability to age even better, it's fantastic.

[kirksnosehair]

I think I still prefer ToF, which to me is the ultimate Fates Warning album and the crowning achievement of their careers.  But the new one is a very close second.

[Samsara]

Add me to the group that prefers Theories of Flight. It's not that Long Day Goodnight isn't a good record -- it is. But there is something about ToF that resonates with me more. Quite honestly, it's probably one of my favorite offerings from the band.

In no specific order, the top-3 for me are probably Parallels, No Exit, Theories of Flight. Sure, I have favorite songs that are on different records, but as pure album experiences, those are my favorite three, top to bottom (again, not in order).

[kirksnosehair]

I never really got into Parallels for some reason.  Multiple listens and still no click.


But if I were to list my favorites the only Fates Warning albums I ever listen to it would be, in order of preference:


1. Theories of Flight
2. No Exit
3. Long Day Good Night
4. FWX
5. A Pleasant Shade of Gray
6. Disconnected


The rest of their albums I find hit and miss.  The John Arch stuff I just can't take his pitchy/screechy vocals.   

[pg1067]

The John Arch stuff I just can't take his pitchy/screechy vocals.

He's ok.  I figure there's about an album's worth of really good material between the three Arch albums:

Damnation
Traveler in Time
The Apparition
Epitaph
Fata Morgana
Guardian
Giant's Lore (Heart of Winter)
Exodus

And maybe Prelude to Ruin or Pirates of the Underground

What throws me more than his vocals is how he frequently tried to cram a lot of words in not enough space.  Most of the live recordings I've heard with Arch are unlistenable because of him.

[Samsara]

I was a late comer to Arch. His voice grated on me. And then I got it. I still prefer Alder by leaps and bounds, but I have an appreciation for just how unique John Arch is. His style gave early Fates Warning a clear sound. That said, I'm with PG. I think there is an album of good material in his three-album run with Fates. I actually prefer the Arch-Matheos albums to the Arch-fronted FW catalog.

[Phoenix87x]

I enjoy John Arch FW and I enjoy John Arch a twist of fate, but I have barely ever listened to the 2 Arch/matheos albums

He doesn't sing Melodically, he just talks over the music. Like it doesn't flow right and I agree with others, it gets very grating. Its a shame since I was ready to love those albums.

For whatever reason with the early FW albums, he meshes better with the music and I dig it.

[Evermind]

The latest Arch/Matheos was my favourite album from 2019, my Top 15 album from the 10s decade, and I still spin it regularly. I think it's a masterpiece and I love that record.

[abydos]

He sings melodically on the second album with Matheos.

[gzarruk]

I've found that the best way to enjoy albums with Arch's vocals is to never listen to them

Joking aside, I just can't stand more than a couple minutes of him singing. I remember trying to listen to the first Arch/Matheos record and couldn't get past the first song... I couldn't even finish the first one! Same with his Twist of Fate EP

Thank God for Ray Alder.

[Kwyjibo]

Of course does Arch sing melodically, it's just that his melodies often are unconventional, not what you expect and sometimes a little all over the place. Most times it works for me, sometimes it doesn't.

That said I prefer Alder FW over Arch FW but those two Arch/Matheos records over FW in general.

[bosk1]

Of course does Arch sing melodically, it's just that his melodies often are unconventional, not what you expect and sometimes a little all over the place. Most times it works for me, sometimes it doesn't.

That said I prefer Alder FW over Arch FW but those two Arch/Matheos records over FW in general.

Yeah, I agree with almost all of that.  But the last 3 Fates albums are, to me, FAR superior to anything in the FW/Arch-Matheos catalog.

[kirksnosehair]

I think Arch is one of those vocalists you either love or hate.  I wouldn't say I hate his vocals, but I just don't like that kind of non-melodic talk/sing thing he does on the Arch Matheos albums.  And the way he chooses to break up some of the syllables of the lyrics is just...weird.  A lot of times he seems to be trying to fit too many words into not enough space, but then he'll also take a word like AND and make it into a 6 syllable word 


His voice is definitely an acquired taste in the same way that a guy like Andy Tillson's vocals are also an acquired taste.  Some will acquire it, some will not. 

[425]

Of course does Arch sing melodically, it's just that his melodies often are unconventional, not what you expect and sometimes a little all over the place. Most times it works for me, sometimes it doesn't.

Yeah, this. I haven't listened to it in close to a year, but I can still hum the chorus melody to Vermillion Moons pretty easily.

I think Tommy Karevik does something similar, although maybe not as consistently, in Seventh Wonder. The melody is often not what you'd expect to hear, but it's still a melody, and it's often good.

[kirksnosehair]

Of course does Arch sing melodically, it's just that his melodies often are unconventional, not what you expect and sometimes a little all over the place. Most times it works for me, sometimes it doesn't.

Yeah, this. I haven't listened to it in close to a year, but I can still hum the chorus melody to Vermillion Moons pretty easily.

I think Tommy Karevik does something similar, although maybe not as consistently, in Seventh Wonder. The melody is often not what you'd expect to hear, but it's still a melody, and it's often good.

Tommy adds straight up blues scale riffs to his vocals.  Arch adds melodic chaos to his     

I get what you're saying, though, they both seem to do a lot of adlibs.  It's just that with Arch it often seems like he's hitting pitches he shouldn't really be hitting.  I appreciate dissonance like any other prog head, but sometimes you're out of key too much and that's the problem for me with Arch, about 50% of what comes out of his mouth seems like it's in a different key than the song. 

[425]

As a complete music theoretical ignoramus, I was definitely concerned I'd gone out of my depth on that post!

I experience them somewhat similarly, although Tommy is one of my favorite singers and Arch isn't, though I don't mind him. I think I understand the distinction you're making, though.

[PowerSlave]

The John Arch stuff I just can't take his pitchy/screechy vocals.

He's ok.  I figure there's about an album's worth of really good material between the three Arch albums:

Damnation
Traveler in Time
The Apparition
Epitaph
Fata Morgana
Guardian
Giant's Lore (Heart of Winter)
Exodus

And maybe Prelude to Ruin or Pirates of the Underground

What throws me more than his vocals is how he frequently tried to cram a lot of words in not enough space.  Most of the live recordings I've heard with Arch are unlistenable because of him.

My first exposure to FW was seeing the video for Silent Cries on Head Banger's Ball on MTV back in the day. So I began my listening experience with them with Ray as the lead singer. I didn't hear any of the Arch albums until several years later and, it took me awhile for the early albums to click with me. Once they did, I began to believe (and still do to this day) that the entire Awaken The Guardian album(with the exception of Valley of the Dolls) is one of the greatest prog metal albums ever recorded. Of course it's all just opinions but, I think that album certainly had a lot of influence on bands that came after.

[pg1067]

My first exposure to FW was seeing the video for Silent Cries on Head Banger's Ball on MTV back in the day. So I began my listening experience with them with Ray as the lead singer. I didn't hear any of the Arch albums until several years later and, it took me awhile for the early albums to click with me. Once they did, I began to believe (and still do to this day) that the entire Awaken The Guardian album(with the exception of Valley of the Dolls) is one of the greatest prog metal albums ever recorded. Of course it's all just opinions but, I think that album certainly had a lot of influence on bands that came after.

I can't really remember, but I don't think I got the Arch albums until after I saw FW on the Perfect Symmetry tour.  IIRC, they opened with Fata Morgana and also played Damnation, so I think that prompted me to seek out the pre-No Exit albums.  I always liked what Mike Portnoy wrote for the anniversary release of AtG, which I couldn't readily find so as to quote it here.

[kirksnosehair]

As a complete music theoretical ignoramus, I was definitely concerned I'd gone out of my depth on that post!

I experience them somewhat similarly, although Tommy is one of my favorite singers and Arch isn't, though I don't mind him. I think I understand the distinction you're making, though.

No actually, I knew exactly what you meant and you're definitely on to something.     

[frogprog]

The only Fates album (and on vinyl) is Darkness In A Different Light which I really like. Upon recommendations in this thread I picked up Long Day and thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks! I really like Ray's voice (as I did in Redemption.)
I think  I will check out some others.

[425]

As a complete music theoretical ignoramus, I was definitely concerned I'd gone out of my depth on that post!

I experience them somewhat similarly, although Tommy is one of my favorite singers and Arch isn't, though I don't mind him. I think I understand the distinction you're making, though.

No actually, I knew exactly what you meant and you're definitely on to something.     

Cool! Good to know I wasn't just hearing things.

[abydos]

The quiet section in Vermillion Moons, all the way up until the solo is awesome and very melodic to me.
Wanderlust is a wonderful mixture of melodic and more of his traditional style (also some absolutely beautiful melodies in the quieter sections).
I'd also describe Wrath of the Universe as quite melodic, not mushc "talking". But the melodies are weird and unpredictable. After so many listens, I can't sing along but I absolutely love them. It is again a nice blend of traditional Arch and melodic Arch.
Tethered is just beautiful all the way through.
Straight and Narrow is mostly what people don't like about Arch, with except for the pre-chorus and the chorus which could as well be Alder-era FW moments.
Pitch Black Prism features some of his best vocals, imo. Another song that mixes his beautiful sense of melody with his other more talk-singing style.
Never in Your Hands has some amazing harmonies.
Kindred Spirits... If you can't to listen to Arch because he's not melodic for you, I suggest you listen to this song and if you don't like it - I don't think you'll ever enjoy anything he does

There's no shortage of melodic singing, but it's rarely an entire song of what most people would instantly like in a melody. And I mostly don't care about Arch in FW, the only song I really like from that era of Fates is Guardian.

[WardySI]

Am exactly where abydos is at regarding Winter Ethereal.

Weirdly I own both Sympathetic Resonance and WE but it's only Winter Ethereal I can regularly enjoy front to back. Resonance is great but not 'as' great...

So far as long and progressive goes, it rarely gets much better than Kindred Spirits. I mean come on, right?

[Dedalus]

After revisiting the FW albums, I did my ranking:

A Pleasant Shade of Gray
Inside Out
Perfect Symmetry
Disconnected
Long Day Good Night
Parallels
Theories of Flight
No Exit
Darkness in a Different Light
FWX
The Spectre Within
Awaken in the Guardian
Night on Bröcken

In a way I had "forgotten" how good this band is. Years without listening, except for the APSOG masterpiece.

APSOG = masterpiece.
Other albums with Ray Alder = Great records.
John Arch's FW = It's not my thing.

[TAC]

After revisiting the FW albums, I did my ranking:

A Pleasant Shade of Gray
Inside Out
Perfect Symmetry
Disconnected
Long Day Good Night
Parallels
Theories of Flight

Interesting to see Inside Out at #2. That's a great album. The only tour I saw Fates.

[wolfking]

After revisiting the FW albums, I did my ranking:

A Pleasant Shade of Gray
Inside Out
Perfect Symmetry
Disconnected
Long Day Good Night
Parallels
Theories of Flight

Interesting to see Inside Out at #2. That's a great album. The only tour I saw Fates.

I'd possibly rate it top 3, it's sensational.

[TAC]

Yeah, it's a real sweet spot in their discog. They really excelled in that style.

[wolfking]

Yeah, it's a real sweet spot in their discog. They really excelled in that style.

I think it's a shame they didn't keep going with it.

[Samsara]

I always thought that Inside Out was just a darker version of Parallels. Honestly, I think it's the only record in their catalog that at least to my ears, is almost repetitive of the one that came before it.

Ironically, I also think that Long Day Goodnight builds very similarly off of Theories of Flight.

[TAC]

It's easy to view Parallels and Inside Out as sister albums. They are both great albums.

Long Day Goodnight has still not clicked with me.

[Samsara]

It's easy to view Parallels and Inside Out as sister albums. They are both great albums.

Long Day Goodnight has still not clicked with me.

Many may disagree, but I thought Parallels followed the model Queensryche took with Empire. Or even Rush from Hemispheres to Permanent Waves Take a more complex sound, simplify it a bit but still maintain integrity, and focus on melody. Fates did that outstanding for two straight records in Parallels and Inside Out. I would probably also argue that they did it somewhat better than Queensryche, but Fates didn't have the promotional muscle behind Parallels and Inside Out like Queensryche did with Empire.

I really don't have any complaints about Long Day Goodnight. It hasn't hit me like Theories of Flight did. But I still like it a lot.

[TAC]

Many may disagree, but I thought Parallels followed the model Queensryche took with Empire.

I would agree with this. Flotsam & Jetsam's Cuatro came out about the same time and followed (for them) a similar path as Empire and Parallels.

[wolfking]

I always thought that Inside Out was just a darker version of Parallels. Honestly, I think it's the only record in their catalog that at least to my ears, is almost repetitive of the one that came before it.

Ironically, I also think that Long Day Goodnight builds very similarly off of Theories of Flight.

Yeah, I can agree with all of this.

[wolfking]

It's easy to view Parallels and Inside Out as sister albums. They are both great albums.

Long Day Goodnight has still not clicked with me.

Long Day clicked with me right away and even grew on me more.  I find myself coming back to it often.

I really hope it's not their last album.

[Dedalus]

After revisiting the FW albums, I did my ranking:

A Pleasant Shade of Gray
Inside Out
Perfect Symmetry
Disconnected
Long Day Good Night
Parallels
Theories of Flight

Interesting to see Inside Out at #2. That's a great album. The only tour I saw Fates.

 

It's a great record!

Monument is one of my favorite songs from the band.