The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[WardySI]

Mini created a dedicated thread a bit ago.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=58837.0

Excellent. Stupidly hadn't occurred to me an actual 'North Sea Echoes' thread might exist 

Will head on over there thanks

[Mebert78]

I've been thinking recently about Jim Matheos and his desire not to write any new material for Fates Warning.  Having read the Destination Onward book last year and reading the articles in which Ray has commented on the topic, I think I understand Jim's thinking -- and I respect it.  I feel like Jim is proud of FW's catalog of music and he wants to finish the band's run on a positive note -- kinda like Jerry Seinfeld when he ended the "Seinfeld" series while it was still good.  From reading the FW book, it's clear that Jim was very disappointed by the band's 1994 album Inside Out and how it was looked at by some as a "Parallels Pt. 2."  So, I feel like he will only write new FW music if he feels inspired and like he has something fresh to present to fans.  He doesn't want to create the same album over and over and potentially water down the band's catalog so late in their career.  I think it's pretty admirable.  While most artists would stick with the project that makes them the most money, Jim is more about artistic integrity.  Also, I noticed that Jim doesn't like to do the same project for too long.  Look at OSI, Arch/Matheos, and even Kings of Mercia (I believe KoM signed only a three-album deal).  Jim will do a handful of albums with a particular project and then give it a rest before it becomes stale, and then he'll go on to something else.  To me, it's almost like he is very conscious of not repeating himself too much, and I feel like that all stems back to Inside Out.  I couldn't be wrong though.  That said, in my heart I feel like he will ended up doing another FW album eventually when he feels like he's gotten the other stuff out of his system.  Fingers crossed!

[pg1067]

I've been thinking recently about Jim Matheos and his desire not to write any new material for Fates Warning.  Having read the Destination Onward book last year and reading the articles in which Ray has commented on the topic, I think I understand Jim's thinking -- and I respect it.  I feel like Jim is proud of FW's catalog of music and he wants to finish the band's run on a positive note -- kinda like Jerry Seinfeld when he ended the "Seinfeld" series while it was still good.  From reading the FW book, it's clear that Jim was very disappointed by the band's 1994 album Inside Out and how it was looked at by some as a "Parallels Pt. 2."  So, I feel like he will only write new FW music if he feels inspired and like he has something fresh to present to fans.  He doesn't want to create the same album over and over and potentially water down the band's catalog so late in their career.  I think it's pretty admirable.  While most artists would stick with the project that makes them the most money, Jim is more about artistic integrity.  Also, I noticed that Jim doesn't like to do the same project for too long.  Look at OSI, Arch/Matheos, and even Kings of Mercia (I believe KoM signed only a three-album deal).  Jim will do a handful of albums with a particular project and then give it a rest before it becomes stale, and then he'll go on to something else.  To me, it's almost like he is very conscious of not repeating himself too much, and I feel like that all stems back to Inside Out.  I couldn't be wrong though.  That said, in my heart I feel like he will ended up doing another FW album eventually when he feels like he's gotten the other stuff out of his system.  Fingers crossed!

I've seen this many times, but it really never made much sense to me.  Parallels was great, but IO stands on its own merits.  When we did the FW countdown a couple years ago, EIGHT songs from IO placed in the top 50, and Monument was one of only three songs to appear on every list.  Obviously, that's only representative of a small fraction of the fanbase, but still.  I think the "Parallels Part 2" thing sells IO way short.

Also, if he really wanted to end FW on a positive note, he should have done it after TOF.  I hope you're right that we get something more at some point.

[bosk1]

Very little of early Fates Warning interested me.  As I've said before, it wasn't really until X that I got interested in them.  And while I appreciate that not everything needs to be ranked, here is how I look at the parts of their discography that I have:

1.  Theories of Flight:  Just an absolute masterpiece.  This was my album of the year when it came out.
2.  Darkness in a Different Light:  I was really happy with this album and wasn't expecting them to top it.  This was a rare Fates Warning album I could spin from start to finish.
3.  Long Day Good Night:  The "lesser" of my top 3--it may not quite reach the heights of the top 2, but is in a similar vein and feels like the satisfied sigh at the end of a long, tiring journey.
4.  X:  As I said, this is the first album that made me take notice of them.
5.  Parallels:  A few good moments on this one, but it is nowhere near the top 4.

I don't own any other full albums, and don't feel any desire to (I've heard several).  I also have a greatest hits package I picked up back when they were touring with DT and Queensryche.  There are a handful of songs on that that I thought were decent enough to make me keep it.  I also have Live Over Europe, which is great.  It really brings a nice edge to songs from albums I don't care for, and rejuvenates them.  They are just one of those bands where, while I reall appreciate some of what they do, I don't feel compelled in any way to be a completist, and I just enjoy what I have.

[TAC]

X is where I lost interest.

[wolfking]

FWX seems a pretty polarizing album.  I enjoyed it but can see where it would be a point where people might tune out.

[nick_z]

I've been thinking recently about Jim Matheos and his desire not to write any new material for Fates Warning.  Having read the Destination Onward book last year and reading the articles in which Ray has commented on the topic, I think I understand Jim's thinking -- and I respect it.  I feel like Jim is proud of FW's catalog of music and he wants to finish the band's run on a positive note -- kinda like Jerry Seinfeld when he ended the "Seinfeld" series while it was still good.  From reading the FW book, it's clear that Jim was very disappointed by the band's 1994 album Inside Out and how it was looked at by some as a "Parallels Pt. 2."  So, I feel like he will only write new FW music if he feels inspired and like he has something fresh to present to fans.  He doesn't want to create the same album over and over and potentially water down the band's catalog so late in their career.  I think it's pretty admirable.  While most artists would stick with the project that makes them the most money, Jim is more about artistic integrity.  Also, I noticed that Jim doesn't like to do the same project for too long.  Look at OSI, Arch/Matheos, and even Kings of Mercia (I believe KoM signed only a three-album deal).  Jim will do a handful of albums with a particular project and then give it a rest before it becomes stale, and then he'll go on to something else.  To me, it's almost like he is very conscious of not repeating himself too much, and I feel like that all stems back to Inside Out.  I couldn't be wrong though.  That said, in my heart I feel like he will ended up doing another FW album eventually when he feels like he's gotten the other stuff out of his system.  Fingers crossed!

I've seen this many times, but it really never made much sense to me.  Parallels was great, but IO stands on its own merits.  When we did the FW countdown a couple years ago, EIGHT songs from IO placed in the top 50, and Monument was one of only three songs to appear on every list.  Obviously, that's only representative of a small fraction of the fanbase, but still.  I think the "Parallels Part 2" thing sells IO way short.

Also, if he really wanted to end FW on a positive note, he should have done it after TOF.  I hope you're right that we get something more at some point.

I could quote this word for word. Parallels is my favorite Fates Warning record, but Inside Out is not far behind. And, sure, it's not a huge stylistic departure, but it has its own thing going.

And agreed on TOF. Such an incredible late-career highlight. Long Day Good Night is ok, but it's pretty significant drop in my book.

[SoundscapeMN]

FWX is great, and if my memory recalls, when it came out, a lot of fans loved it.

I did a FW discography series of videos on my YouTube channel a couple of years ago, revisiting every record, and I still find FWX holds up really well.

[abydos]

I was initially a bit disappointed with FWX following Disconnected. Liked it but I was hoping for a bit more. That quickly began to change and over the years my appreciation and love for the record has only grown. Even now, it's one of my favourite album of theirs.

The same is happening with Theories and Long Day now. Theories is the new Disconnected and the latter didn't quite hit as hard initially, but lately I've been mostly spinning that one instead. And I absolutely adore it and it continues to grow on me.

[SoundscapeMN]

https://open.spotify.com/track/0IrNa2XY7JQrIotyplRoIw

Heal Me = Top 10 FW track for me

[pg1067]

X is where I lost interest.

Fates was riding such a high with me after APSOG was released.  The '90s was a decade where most of my favorite bands were laying eggs.  Maiden and Priest both lost their HOF caliber singers.  Queensryche had completely lost it.  Rush was recovering somewhat from the "synth era" and Roll the Bones.  Fates and Dream Theater were the real bright spots of the decade.  However, whereas Fates released the epic APSOG, DT released the massively disappointing FII, so by 1998, it was really only Fates.  DT obviously rebounded big time with SFAM, but Fates went the other way with the huge disappointment of disconnected.  With all that happened in my life between 2000-04, I somewhat lost track, but then someone got me FWX for my birthday or Christmas in 2004, and it was even more BLEH than Disconnected had been.  I basically figured they were done, and the near decade long layoff didn't do anything to refute that.  Fortunately, the band found lightning in a bottle with DIADL and then took it to an even higher level with TOF.  That's why I really hope LDGN isn't the swan song.

https://open.spotify.com/track/0IrNa2XY7JQrIotyplRoIw

[ur=https://youtu.be/Xyj_m-u9jUo?list=PLFNc6ga_mjMuvpWwfdxAauzf0FRg0a0BI&t=1085]Heal Me = Top 10 FW track for me[/url]

I assume that's counting APSOG as a single song?  You had Heal Me at #18 on the list you submitted for the 2022 countdown, but you also had all of the individual tracks from APSOG in the top 11 spots.

[Samsara]

I've been thinking recently about Jim Matheos and his desire not to write any new material for Fates Warning.  Having read the Destination Onward book last year and reading the articles in which Ray has commented on the topic, I think I understand Jim's thinking -- and I respect it.  I feel like Jim is proud of FW's catalog of music and he wants to finish the band's run on a positive note -- kinda like Jerry Seinfeld when he ended the "Seinfeld" series while it was still good.  From reading the FW book, it's clear that Jim was very disappointed by the band's 1994 album Inside Out and how it was looked at by some as a "Parallels Pt. 2."  So, I feel like he will only write new FW music if he feels inspired and like he has something fresh to present to fans.  He doesn't want to create the same album over and over and potentially water down the band's catalog so late in their career.  I think it's pretty admirable.  While most artists would stick with the project that makes them the most money, Jim is more about artistic integrity.  Also, I noticed that Jim doesn't like to do the same project for too long.  Look at OSI, Arch/Matheos, and even Kings of Mercia (I believe KoM signed only a three-album deal).  Jim will do a handful of albums with a particular project and then give it a rest before it becomes stale, and then he'll go on to something else.  To me, it's almost like he is very conscious of not repeating himself too much, and I feel like that all stems back to Inside Out.  I couldn't be wrong though.  That said, in my heart I feel like he will ended up doing another FW album eventually when he feels like he's gotten the other stuff out of his system.  Fingers crossed!

I agree with you Mike. I also feel like Long Day Goodnight was sadly, pt. 2 of Theories of Flight, which in my opinion is by far the superior of the two, which very much have the same vibe. Almost the same kind of vibe between Parallels and Inside Out.

I actually think Fates will do something else in time. I fully believe Jim will write an epic song that both Ray and John will sing on, both solo singing sections, harmonized portions, call and response, an amazing piece. I really feel that will happen before Fates is truly done. It may not be an album. It may just be an EP. But I feel strongly that without uniting both singers, Fates isn't truly done.

regarding X:

I love that Fates record. I think it kind of goes under the radar these days and borrows from some OSI moments (and I liked OSI, so that's cool for me). But stuff like Wish, Heal Me, A Handful of Doubt, Simple Human...just absolutely killer.

[bosk1]

regarding X:

I love that Fates record. I think it kind of goes under the radar these days and borrows from some OSI moments (and I liked OSI, so that's cool for me). But stuff like Wish, Heal Me, A Handful of Doubt, Simple Human...just absolutely killer.

Well, you were the one that gave me a copy, so you are largely responsible for me connecting with anything from them that led me to give the Darkness a chance when it came out.  Glad you did.

[SoundscapeMN]

https://open.spotify.com/track/0IrNa2XY7JQrIotyplRoIw

Heal Me = Top 10 FW track for me

I assume that's counting APSOG as a single song?  You had Heal Me at #18 on the list you submitted for the 2022 countdown, but you also had all of the individual tracks from APSOG in the top 11 spots.

right. I don't consider A Pleasant Shade Gray 12 separate songs. It's 1 song/suite for me. Why in the Countdown it ended up at 18 (and APSOG 1-12 were my top 12), but in that video I ranked it #9.

[Awaken]

I've been thinking recently about Jim Matheos and his desire not to write any new material for Fates Warning.  Having read the Destination Onward book last year and reading the articles in which Ray has commented on the topic, I think I understand Jim's thinking -- and I respect it.  I feel like Jim is proud of FW's catalog of music and he wants to finish the band's run on a positive note -- kinda like Jerry Seinfeld when he ended the "Seinfeld" series while it was still good.  From reading the FW book, it's clear that Jim was very disappointed by the band's 1994 album Inside Out and how it was looked at by some as a "Parallels Pt. 2."  So, I feel like he will only write new FW music if he feels inspired and like he has something fresh to present to fans.  He doesn't want to create the same album over and over and potentially water down the band's catalog so late in their career.  I think it's pretty admirable.  While most artists would stick with the project that makes them the most money, Jim is more about artistic integrity.  Also, I noticed that Jim doesn't like to do the same project for too long.  Look at OSI, Arch/Matheos, and even Kings of Mercia (I believe KoM signed only a three-album deal).  Jim will do a handful of albums with a particular project and then give it a rest before it becomes stale, and then he'll go on to something else.  To me, it's almost like he is very conscious of not repeating himself too much, and I feel like that all stems back to Inside Out.  I couldn't be wrong though.  That said, in my heart I feel like he will ended up doing another FW album eventually when he feels like he's gotten the other stuff out of his system.  Fingers crossed!

I agree with you Mike. I also feel like Long Day Goodnight was sadly, pt. 2 of Theories of Flight, which in my opinion is by far the superior of the two, which very much have the same vibe. Almost the same kind of vibe between Parallels and Inside Out.

I actually think Fates will do something else in time. I fully believe Jim will write an epic song that both Ray and John will sing on, both solo singing sections, harmonized portions, call and response, an amazing piece. I really feel that will happen before Fates is truly done. It may not be an album. It may just be an EP. But I feel strongly that without uniting both singers, Fates isn't truly done.

regarding X:

I love that Fates record. I think it kind of goes under the radar these days and borrows from some OSI moments (and I liked OSI, so that's cool for me). But stuff like Wish, Heal Me, A Handful of Doubt, Simple Human...just absolutely killer.

This is a phenomenal idea, I'd also love to hear something in this vein.  Arch's vocals never grated on me the way I've heard others complain about, and I think mixing up the vocals with Ray would be great!

While I'm here - I guess I can see why someone would feel like I/O is an extension/Pt 2 for Parallels, and similarly LDGN being an extension of ToF - but I enjoy I/O and LDGN a ton on their own and never really got on board w that line of thinking. 

If FW is really done, ToF and LDGN were certainly the kind of swan song I'd want/expect from them. 

[SoundscapeMN]

new interview discussion podcast with Jeff Wagner talking about the book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbMQndTuMTA

[Samsara]

new interview discussion podcast with Jeff Wagner talking about the book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbMQndTuMTA

This is great. Thanks for the heads up!