The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[WilliamMunny]

I really like this song, made me look forward to the album. I just love how Ray's tone sounds and how his voice matured.

Such a good point!

Ray is, in my opinion, the benchmark for how to age gracefully as a metal singer. With Fates, he took every impossible high and managed to translate it into a lower register while retaining the impact. And when he did push his voice ("Light and Shade of Things") comes to mind, it felt all the more powerful.

Love the new track too!

[Samsara]

Great talk about Ray. Agreed completely. He found the perfect way to translate that high stuff into something he can now do, and do well, without hurting the song.

I was asked about Darkness in a Different Light, and I remember telling the person who asked me that I felt like Ray was being too restrained...that there were points he could let loose a little. And when they came out with Theories of Flight, BANG, it was still the awesome Ray tone, but in spots where he needed to make an impact, he brought it up, and it really just made the album for me (and that record is probably my third favorite of the Alder-era Fates catalog behind Parallels and No Exit). Just pure brilliance.

[nick_z]

Absolutely yes to Darkness vs. Theories!

It’s almost like he was finding his voice again in the former and then…quite simply one of my favorite performances of his in the latter. So, so good.

And that moment in Light and Shade of Things is indeed magical.

[Dublagent66]

Yes, ToF was definitely a step or two up from DiaDL. 

[wolfking]

Yes, ToF was definitely a step or two up from DiaDL. 

Easily.

[Samsara]

Well now, this will be cool if it happens:

I would love to tour again, and Jim would as well; we've already discussed it. It's just a matter of getting everyone together. Joey's [Vera, bass] in five or six different bands. And Bobby Jarzombek, Bobby's now playing with George Strait, one of the biggest country music stars in the world, and Bobby's his drummer now. But George doesn't really do normal tours; he does one-off shows now and then. And so it's really hard for Bobby to leave for more than a week or two to be on tour. So we've been trying to deal with that lately. But next year is the fortieth anniversary of FATES WARNING, so we're discussing doing a few shows next year around the world. Not a full tour, but some shows every few weeks or months apart. So hopefully that'll work. We'll see.

Source: https://blabbermouth.net/news/ray-alder-says-jim-matheos-doesnt-want-to-write-any-more-new-fates-warning-music

>>>>>Some 40th Anniversary shows would be absolutely incredible. I hope that happens. My guess is, Fates would do European festivals. But maybe we'll get some coastal shows here in the U.S. LA, New York, etc. I hope so. I'd get down to at least LA for something.

[pg1067]

Well now, this will be cool if it happens:

I would love to tour again, and Jim would as well; we've already discussed it. It's just a matter of getting everyone together. Joey's [Vera, bass] in five or six different bands. And Bobby Jarzombek, Bobby's now playing with George Strait, one of the biggest country music stars in the world, and Bobby's his drummer now. But George doesn't really do normal tours; he does one-off shows now and then. And so it's really hard for Bobby to leave for more than a week or two to be on tour. So we've been trying to deal with that lately. But next year is the fortieth anniversary of FATES WARNING, so we're discussing doing a few shows next year around the world. Not a full tour, but some shows every few weeks or months apart. So hopefully that'll work. We'll see.

Source: https://blabbermouth.net/news/ray-alder-says-jim-matheos-doesnt-want-to-write-any-more-new-fates-warning-music

>>>>>Some 40th Anniversary shows would be absolutely incredible. I hope that happens. My guess is, Fates would do European festivals. But maybe we'll get some coastal shows here in the U.S. LA, New York, etc. I hope so. I'd get down to at least LA for something.

I'd absolutely be there for that!

I know nothing about George Straight (other than his genre), but it's hard to imagine a beast like Bobby drumming on a bunch of country songs. 

[WardySI]

Not sure whether to put this in here or the Alder thread or both and apologies if it's already been mentioned...

Alder confirms has collaborated with Jim Matheos, album complete and to be released next year \m/

After the 3min mark in video linked here...

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/ray-alder-confirms-collaboration-with-fates-warning-bandmate-jim-matheos/

[SoundscapeMN]

I wonder if it could be similar to Jim's solo music; new Agey..but I guess we'll see.

[Samsara]

You know, that's just odd. I heard about that last week, and it baffled me then, and it does now. Unless it is absolutely 1000 percent nothing like anything Fates has ever done before (and maybe it is), I'm not sure why they wouldn't call it Fates Warning. I mean, when you think about it, most Fates records with Alder, with the exception of Inside Out and Long Day Goodnight (which respectively, in my opinion, mirror the albums that came before them) all go different places.

So unless this is, as was suggested, "new agey" or something, I'm not sure why they wouldn't have called it Fates Warning. it's the band's guitarist and songwriter with its singer and lyric writer. How can that NOT be the band? Anyway, regardless, looking forward to seeing what Jim and Ray have cooked up.

[abydos]

Yeah, hearing that Jim doesn't want to write FW anymore made me sad. They've been doing these 2 albums in a similar style since the 90s with the exception of APSOG and I was looking forward to hearing what comes next. Maybe he wasn't sure or felt he'd write too similar? But their last two albums being some of their absolute best reignited my love for the band's music.

[Ben_Jamin]

You know, that's just odd. I heard about that last week, and it baffled me then, and it does now. Unless it is absolutely 1000 percent nothing like anything Fates has ever done before (and maybe it is), I'm not sure why they wouldn't call it Fates Warning. I mean, when you think about it, most Fates records with Alder, with the exception of Inside Out and Long Day Goodnight (which respectively, in my opinion, mirror the albums that came before them) all go different places.

So unless this is, as was suggested, "new agey" or something, I'm not sure why they wouldn't have called it Fates Warning. it's the band's guitarist and songwriter with its singer and lyric writer. How can that NOT be the band? Anyway, regardless, looking forward to seeing what Jim and Ray have cooked up.

The very same reason why Ray didn't want to perform any Fates Warning for his ProgPower USA set. It's a matter of respect for the other band members.

It was also explained how difficult it is to get the band together, even to record.

[Samsara]

I mean, obviously, if they wanted the band members on it, they could have recorded their parts. Ray's comments about not doing FW material at ProgPower make sense, and I agree with him. But that was all in a live situation. We're talking about recording here. And if Ray and Jim wanted the other guys to record, I am sure they could have. They chose not to. And I'm looking forward to hearing the new material and seeing just why they thought it wouldn't work as FW.

[goo-goo]

You know, that's just odd. I heard about that last week, and it baffled me then, and it does now. Unless it is absolutely 1000 percent nothing like anything Fates has ever done before (and maybe it is), I'm not sure why they wouldn't call it Fates Warning. I mean, when you think about it, most Fates records with Alder, with the exception of Inside Out and Long Day Goodnight (which respectively, in my opinion, mirror the albums that came before them) all go different places.

So unless this is, as was suggested, "new agey" or something, I'm not sure why they wouldn't have called it Fates Warning. it's the band's guitarist and songwriter with its singer and lyric writer. How can that NOT be the band? Anyway, regardless, looking forward to seeing what Jim and Ray have cooked up.

The very same reason why Ray didn't want to perform any Fates Warning for his ProgPower USA set. It's a matter of respect for the other band members.

It was also explained how difficult it is to get the band together, even to record.

The thing is that I don't think it is difficult to get the band together to record (I think it is going to be harder if they are going to tour due to Joey and Bobby being in multiple/other bands). Joey has his own studio, Bobby IIRC, was building one at his home, Mike has his own studio as well. 

The last 3 albums have been produced mostly by Jim (Darkness, ToF, and Long Day). IIRC, Ray has a producer's credit on Darkness but can't confirm it on Discogs. I truly believe Jim is done with recording new Fates material. Jim wrote absolutely everything with Fates (music, demos, arrangements, drum patterns, etc).  The last album to my ears, has a little bit of everything from EVERY Fates album. I don't think he has anymore music fitting for Fates. In other words, he has done it all with Fates, he has done all he wanted with Fates and he probably doesn't want to fall in the category where the new material is very predictable.

With Kings of Mercia, you can hear some of Jim's core writing elements used in Fates. The riffs, the guitar panning on both speakers, etc. This could have been a Fates Warning album to some degree.

I haven't finished reading the Fates Warning book yet but it has very interesting insights on Jim's writing and how somewhat "took over" the writing duties very early on. He talks about how the other guys know their place in FW and that's why is "easy" changing members or having guest (former FW) players, without anyone being offended/insulted by that. Fates is Jim's vision and everyone gets that (and Ray's to a smaller extent, specially in the latter albums from FWX and onward where he got a little bit more involved in the writing).  I don't think Jim can reinvent Fates anymore since it seems like Fates changes sounds every 2 albums, with the exception of the last 3 where they similar (more prog metal compared to Inside Out/Parallels/FWX).

It could be that Jim may get his FW bug reignited after some years but who knows. In other words, I wouldn’t expect new FW material until he reinvents the Fates sound again, kind of like Fripp does with KC and Steven Wilson did with Porcupine Tree.

[WardySI]

It will be interesting to hear why this wasn't a Fates collaboration but that aside I welcome anything from either of them.  And tbh I hope it's something completely different.

I may be the only one but not only loved A-Z also loved Jim's Kings Of Mercia.  Both records landed in my Top5 last year and I would be keen as to get another KOM record or two \m/

[goo-goo]

I also liked both A-Z and KoM albums. Took a while to get used to Overland’s voice though.

[WardySI]

Yep always liked the guy but never on my watchlist as such but he sounds phenomenal on Kings.  Was probably my most played record in '22 

[WilliamMunny]

I know I'm in the minority here, but A to Z and KOM both did nothing for me (and with the latter, I really tried).

That said, Jim's Tuesday the Sky albums have gotten some heavy rotation over the past few years, so if he does something in that vein with Ray, I can only imagine how stoked I will be.

For my money, Jim has been one of music's most intriguing artists for decades. He's managed to pump out an incredibly prolific body of work under sever different monikers/banners. And, similar to Portnoy, he has also done a good job of spreading his wings—for as much as I love OSI, I would never even try to convince a diehard Fates fan that it's Jim's best work (even if that's my opinion )

So, I'm pretty much with Samsara (and everyone else) here—if, after all that's been said, Jim and Ray deliver something that amounts to a Fate's album 'minus the name,' I'll likely be overjoyed and a bit confused.

[Samsara]

A-Z was a solid record, as was KOM, but neither hit me like Fates does. A-Z was closer. I'm not a fan of Overland's voice. I think the music of KOM was really cool, but the vocalist has to connect with me. Just not a good pairing to my ears, but I can hear why folks like it.

Agree with WM about Tuesday the Sky. I think that's a very niche audience for Jim, but I dig it a lot. It's background music for me, mostly, but I feel like that style is really where Jim's passion is.

As for the future of FW, Ray has been pretty adamant in all interviews that Jim has said he is done writing for FW, and any further questions about that have to be directed to Jim himself, because Ray can't answer for him. But it's also very obvious that Ray wasn't in favor of ending FW. It just is what it is. Jim's the music writer. And if writing in the FW "box" (as wide as that is) isn't appealing to him, I get it.

I still don't think LDGN is as powerful as Theories. I think FW really accomplished the career-spanning record with Theories, and LDGN is an extension of that, which has some great moments, but not as good. I think it's just like how Inside Out was more of a continuation of Parallels with some minor differences. IO is a good record with some outstanding work. But it felt like a continuation of Parallels.

So as Goo says, until Jim is inspired to "reinvent" Fates' sound in a way that is still definitively "Fates Warning," I don't think we can expect anything. That said, I am looking forward to all the projects Jim has going on, and getting my hands on Ray's new solo record. Mike Abdow is tremendous (his solo catalog is brilliant), and I'm really glad he and Ray have blossomed as a writing team.

[jammindude]

Just adding my plus one to the Tuesday the Sky material. I only have the first album, but it really is wonderful background music.

[wolfking]

I have one of Jim's solo CD's.  Not sure I've ever listened to it but I think it was very soft if I do remember it.  I'll have to hunt that one out too.

[Skeever]

I'm finally getting into this band.
Man, how about them first three albums?

[jammindude]

I'm finally getting into this band.
Man, how about them first three albums?

Spectre was my first love. 

[Skeever]

It's so good. I never gave the "underground" era of prog metal enough love.
I've also been bumping Savatage's earlier albums.

I wish I'd been there for this stuff. I wish I could join a band like that today 

[pg1067]

I have one of Jim's solo CD's.  Not sure I've ever listened to it but I think it was very soft if I do remember it.  I'll have to hunt that one out too.

First Impressions.  It's all acoustic guitar, violin and cello.  I haven't listened to it in quite a while, but it's a great album.  Some really catchy stuff.

I'm finally getting into this band.
Man, how about them first three albums?

Three very similar albums but also very different.  Or I suppose it might be more accurate to say that their evolving maturity as songwriters and players was obvious from one album to the next.  Night on Brocken was sort of a second rate Maiden clone.  By the time Awaken the Guardian came out, they were on a completely different level.

[Skeever]

Heh, yeah, that makes sense. I wouldn't say "Second Rate Maiden" as much as I would say like, darker, edgier Maiden. I described it to a friend as "No Hooks Maiden". But then you get to Awaken the Guardian, and it all starts coming together... the hooks wind up being there, but in a way feels a lot more sophisticated than most other metal bands.

[Phoenix87x]

Rockin FWX 

[SoundscapeMN]

Rockin FWX 

 

[Samsara]

The funny thing for me on those first three albums with Arch, and I am sure many have this hang up - it's hard to really absorb Arch's voice. It is, for me, an acquired taste that took me a bit to settle in with. Ray was/is much more pleasing to the ear. Granted, I got into Fates during the Alder era, so familiarity is also something. I love both now, but I have to admit, other than some occasional spins of the massive Awaken the Guardian, I really don't listen to the Arch-era Fates material. I do spin the Arch/Matheos albums a bit though.

[TAC]

Rockin FWX 

That’s an oxymoron. 

[Samsara]

Rockin FWX 

That’s an oxymoron. 

You stop that. Just because you're older than dirt, doesn't mean that records like Promised Land and FWX aren't rockin'. Now, you go back to your wheelchair and roll in for arts and crafts, with the other old fogeys, TAC. 

Ha ha. Love ya, Tim.

[abydos]

I hope it's a rare thing but I really didn't like seeing Ray with a cigarette in one of those interviews. Not that it's any of my business, but still.

[Skeever]

The funny thing for me on those first three albums with Arch, and I am sure many have this hang up - it's hard to really absorb Arch's voice. It is, for me, an acquired taste that took me a bit to settle in with. Ray was/is much more pleasing to the ear. Granted, I got into Fates during the Alder era, so familiarity is also something. I love both now, but I have to admit, other than some occasional spins of the massive Awaken the Guardian, I really don't listen to the Arch-era Fates material. I do spin the Arch/Matheos albums a bit though.

I think this is part of what I like about it, in retrospect. It's inaccessible in a way that you just don't get anymore, with some many bands writing songs that center around hooks or real chunky production. Arch's vocals especially have that kinda mystical quality to that which keeps me coming back, like each listen gets me a little bit closer to hearing what it is that I'm supposed to be picking up on.

[Samsara]

I hope it's a rare thing but I really didn't like seeing Ray with a cigarette in one of those interviews. Not that it's any of my business, but still.

Me either. But it's not a rare thing. He continues to smoke, or at least did in 2019 when Fates was touring.

I think this is part of what I like about it, in retrospect. It's inaccessible in a way that you just don't get anymore, with some many bands writing songs that center around hooks or real chunky production. Arch's vocals especially have that kinda mystical quality to that which keeps me coming back, like each listen gets me a little bit closer to hearing what it is that I'm supposed to be picking up on.

Oh yeah Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Arch now. It just took a bit to really connect with him. I just find myself more going back to Awaken the Guardian and the two Arch/Matheos records way more often than Night on Broken or The Spectre Within.

[jammindude]

NOB is just ok. So can see revisiting that rarely. But Spectre is very close to being ATG’s equal. Not quite, but almost.