The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[SoundscapeMN]

maybe Jim will talk a little more in-depth about what APSOG is about?

[Mebert78]

Are there any hardcover versions of the book?

[jammindude]

maybe Jim will talk a little more in-depth about what APSOG is about?

Why don’t we know? I always thought it was super obvious? One of the few songs that seemed a bit more straightforward to me.

[HOF]

My FW take of the day is that Circles is a superior track to Shelter Me.

Can't remember the order they came in, but I was under the impression that Circles was the earlier track and got split up among Shelter Me and Outside Looking In.

[SoundscapeMN]

maybe Jim will talk a little more in-depth about what APSOG is about?

Why don’t we know? I always thought it was super obvious? One of the few songs that seemed a bit more straightforward to me.

from memory, he has often shyed away from talking about specifics about it. What inspired it. I mean there's been reviews that have mentioned ideas about what it is about; a man looking back at his life and many things he regretted and wanting to do things differently. But it's kind of like The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. Peter Gabriel has often just said "well it's like A Pilgrim's Progress" without going all that much into detail. And from my memory, Jim has never really talked about specific life experiences or inspirations behind APSOG.

He has said he usually likes to leave things as ambigious as possible and have things be interpretted by the listener.

But I just wonder with how much time has passed and what seems like may be the ending of the band, maybe he would add or open up a little bit about it now. The whole "now or never" adage.

[Samsara]

Got a reply from Jeff and he said that he is working on it but won’t be available until sometime next year.

Like I said, it has to be entirely reformatted and takes time. I know we rushed to make sure it was available because the demand was high. Had we had more time, it would have been a bit different on Kindle.

re: APSOG - I think after folks read the book, you'll understand what likely inspired APSOG a bit more. Jim opens up a bit about...some stuff, which for me, really illuminated a lot of things I suspected. Yes, I'm being vague. I figure people should read it, not hear it from me.

re: hardcover - Mike, I don't think so. This is the one version. I forgot to ask Jeff, but my guess is, if there is one, it would be later. He's responsive to messages, so it wouldn't hurt to ask. I love this french flaps version though. It's a very solid PB.

[pg1067]

maybe Jim will talk a little more in-depth about what APSOG is about?

Why don’t we know? I always thought it was super obvious? One of the few songs that seemed a bit more straightforward to me.

Some of it seems apparent (insomnia), but beyond that...??

My FW take of the day is that Circles is a superior track to Shelter Me.

Can't remember the order they came in, but I was under the impression that Circles was the earlier track and got split up among Shelter Me and Outside Looking In.

Shelter Me is Circles with the middle section lifted out and replaced and with some different lyrics.  The middle section was then placed after the guitar solo in Outside Looking In.  I assume Circles came first, and I disagree about Circles v. Shelter Me.  For me, Circles is cool, and I'm glad we have both, but Shelter Me has a far superior chorus.

[HOF]

My FW take of the day is that Circles is a superior track to Shelter Me.

Can't remember the order they came in, but I was under the impression that Circles was the earlier track and got split up among Shelter Me and Outside Looking In.

Shelter Me is Circles with the middle section lifted out and replaced and with some different lyrics.  The middle section was then placed after the guitar solo in Outside Looking In.  I assume Circles came first, and I disagree about Circles v. Shelter Me.  For me, Circles is cool, and I'm glad we have both, but Shelter Me has a far superior chorus.

The chorus of Shelter Me really bugs me. So many of the choruses on Parallels and Inside Out sound similar and could be sung over each other. Shelter Me feels like another song's chorus was dropped into it. I feel like Circles is more unique and flows better with the verses. But I also heard Circles first, so that's probably a big part of it.

[wolfking]

My FW take of the day is that Circles is a superior track to Shelter Me.

Can't remember the order they came in, but I was under the impression that Circles was the earlier track and got split up among Shelter Me and Outside Looking In.

Shelter Me is Circles with the middle section lifted out and replaced and with some different lyrics.  The middle section was then placed after the guitar solo in Outside Looking In.  I assume Circles came first, and I disagree about Circles v. Shelter Me.  For me, Circles is cool, and I'm glad we have both, but Shelter Me has a far superior chorus.

The chorus of Shelter Me really bugs me. So many of the choruses on Parallels and Inside Out sound similar and could be sung over each other. Shelter Me feels like another song's chorus was dropped into it. I feel like Circles is more unique and flows better with the verses. But I also heard Circles first, so that's probably a big part of it.

I know where you are coming from with this, but I can't really agree.

[nick_z]

The chorus of Shelter Me really bugs me. So many of the choruses on Parallels and Inside Out sound similar and could be sung over each other. Shelter Me feels like another song's chorus was dropped into it. I feel like Circles is more unique and flows better with the verses. But I also heard Circles first, so that's probably a big part of it.

I know where you are coming from with this, but I can't really agree.

Can't agree either 

While it's undeniable Parallels and Inside Out are cut from the same (or similar) cloth, and they are both showing a more streamlined and straightforward version of FW, there's a level of sophistication in the songwriting that just elevates them. I love them both. Parallels might be slightly superior, but there are days when I think Inside Out is even better. Most of the songs are so...concise... and yet there's so much going on. I've mentioned this before, but the Matheos-Aresti interplay is what I miss the most from more recent FW. They had this signature thing with the clean guitars and cool (distorted) chord voicings...it really made their sound in the early 90s super-special.

More specifically in regards to Shelter Me - I definitely prefer it to (its early version?) Circles. Although, differently from you (HOF), I've listened to Shelter Me before Circles, so there's that...

...And I always loved the chorus. It's so catchy and Zonder's drums are delicious in it 

[jammindude]

@pg Re: APSOG…

I never saw the need to disconnect (see what I did there?) the subject matter of the rest beyond the obvious that you’ve stated. Anyone who has ever had a night where your brain WILL NOT shut down to save your life will understand how you drift in and out with your mind never rests…lying in shadows replaying a thousand regrets. And the thousand feels literal because your mind is just bouncing all over the place to sometimes very vaguely connected (or disconnected) thoughts. Regrets of childhood, regrets of past relationships, bummed out by the last show you played, wondering if this life you dreamed of having is worth the depression of being away all the time. And you often wonder what else could be and you dream of running away.

Ya…I can relate to the entire stream of consciousness of the whole thing. That’s why I love it so much.


And then, when you finally come to terms with it all, when you finally find some peace to all the highs and lows between light and dark…this pleasant shade of gray allows you to drift off into pleasant sleep…..about 2 minutes before your alarm goes off. 

[HOF]

To be clear, I think both Parallels and Inside Out are awesome. The chorus thing is more an issue on Inside Out for me. I just think Matheos seemed to have a template for the choruses on that album, and some of them ended up similar to some from Parallels.

[nick_z]

To be clear, I think both Parallels and Inside Out are awesome. The chorus thing is more an issue on Inside Out for me. I just think Matheos seemed to have a template for the choruses on that album, and some of them ended up similar to some from Parallels.

Got it 

[TAC]

To be clear, I think both Parallels and Inside Out are awesome. The chorus thing is more an issue on Inside Out for me. I just think Matheos seemed to have a template for the choruses on that album, and some of them ended up similar to some from Parallels.

Got it 

I have never thought any of the choruses on those two albums sounded similar. I just thought they were extremely well written. I also feel that these two albums are Fates at their best. They're the two strongest albums in their discog, although I do think they hit a home run with Theories Of Flight.

[HOF]

To be clear, I think both Parallels and Inside Out are awesome. The chorus thing is more an issue on Inside Out for me. I just think Matheos seemed to have a template for the choruses on that album, and some of them ended up similar to some from Parallels.

Got it 

I have never thought any of the choruses on those two albums sounded similar. I just thought they were extremely well written. I also feel that these two albums are Fates at their best. They're the two strongest albums in their discog, although I do think they hit a home run with Theories Of Flight.

Let the record show that, on this point, TAC and I agree!

[Samsara]

re: Inside Out and Parallels

I agree that both albums are brilliant in that they take the band's complex sound, simplify it to a degree without losing what makes Fates interesting. Excellent songwriting completely. In many ways, both records remind me of Queensryche's Empire, which IMO, does the exact thing with Queensryche's sound...simplifies it without it becoming simple.

I think for me, the two records are just stylistically similar...so much so that it was weird. It was like Parallels was there, and Inside Out was a darker version of Parallels. There wasn't as much songwriting change/evolution from one record to the next. That's how I've always considered them. Both outstanding. I prefer Parallels, but the gems on Inside Out stand toe to toe with the best of Parallels as well.

In my opinion, I think Fates only did this sort of...stylistically similar releases one other time: Theories of Flight to Long Day Goodnight. And much like Parallels and Inside Out, I prefer Theories of Flight. LDG is still a good record, but to my ear, very much in the same vein as ToF.

p.s. saw that Jeff Wagner shipped about 90 percent of the book pre-orders today. So I am sure that folks in the U.S. will get them in the next several days. Folks overseas a bit longer, obviously. Can't wait!

[SoundscapeMN]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cf4lBU0pW_8/

[pg1067]

@pg Re: APSOG…

Maybe there isn't more to it than that.  Hopefully we find out.

The books apparently have mostly shipped, so maybe I'll have it waiting for me (to add to my pile of books I haven't gotten around to reading) when I get home from Chicago!

[Samsara]

Mine was in my mailbox this evening!

[Grappler]

Mine was in my mailbox this evening!

Mine too!  Have to finish a library book and then I'll be diving into this.  I flipped through it and randomly opened up to a page documenting the 2012 show in Brazil, involving the QR meltdown.   

It looks awesome!

[jammindude]

Still no book. Although I am up here in the Seattle area so I don’t know if that makes it take longer. I wish they had at least sent some sort of shipping confirmation.

EDIT - SCRATCH THAT!!!! Immediately after writing this I realized I hadn’t checked my mailbox for yesterday‘s mail. Guess what? It was there.

[Samsara]

I just finished the book. Forgive typos here, as I am waiting oit a 3 hour delay of my flight home from visiting family.

I am so, so impressed. As a fellow writer, one who does this for a living, I'm extremely critical. My biggest thing is always flow. I hate biographies that are choppy. (You should see how many chunks of chapters I had to rewrite for the Queensryche book to get it where it is, and I'm still not happy with it.) I'm delightesld to say that Jeff delivers a flowing, detail-rich account that for me, is the gold standard for band biographies.

There's really no stone left unturned and the entire narrative is such an inspiring, honest tale. I learned a bunch of things I didn't know and loved Jeff's use of footnotes for extra detail.

Even if you're not a Fates Warning fan, but love metal and rock bios, this is a great read. It's thorough, but written so that even casual fans don't need to know the catalog inside out (pun very much intended), to enjoy the tale of this band.

Thrilled for Jeff, and for all of us Fates fans. So glad this story was told. Thank you Jeff!

[Grappler]

I'm 3/4 of the way through the book and love it.  As I've been reading the chapters about each album, I've listened to each album in full a number of times as well.  I've learned so much about the albums and the band.

My Fates experience started sometime in the late 90's, when I was introduced to the greatest hits record and No Exit.  I eventually got APSOG and never really liked it, since it was so vastly different...after that, I checked out on Fates Warning until 2016 when Theories of Flight came out.  That's when I went back and got into ALL of the records.

Awaken the Guardian - I've enjoyed this, but have a newfound appreciation for it, knowing how hard that lineup worked on the record.  I've had this record on repeat all week long. 

Parallels - have always loved the hits and Life in Still Water.  Another album that's been on repeat. 

APSOG - I think I listened to this in full for the very first time today, even though I bought the CD over 20 years ago.  The Inside Out and APSOG chapters in the book really helped me understand the album and I was really enjoying hearing it. 


Looking forward to finishing the book and my run-through of each record!

[SoundscapeMN]

got my book the other day, but have only paged through it (lack of time mostly).

I also started doing an album series on my YouTube channel on all the albums, and then eventually a ranking. Unsure how long it will take (the Marillion 1 I did last year took me over 2 months). But getting the book might escalate it.

I did find another Jeff Wagner interview on YouTube that is pretty in-depth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pyk5hODOM

Also I wasn't aware of this tune John Arch sang on from the band Dead By Wednesday from just a few years ago. It's quite good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4xgOaKHma0

[nick_z]

I just finished the book. Forgive typos here, as I am waiting oit a 3 hour delay of my flight home from visiting family.

I am so, so impressed. As a fellow writer, one who does this for a living, I'm extremely critical. My biggest thing is always flow. I hate biographies that are choppy. (You should see how many chunks of chapters I had to rewrite for the Queensryche book to get it where it is, and I'm still not happy with it.) I'm delightesld to say that Jeff delivers a flowing, detail-rich account that for me, is the gold standard for band biographies.

There's really no stone left unturned and the entire narrative is such an inspiring, honest tale. I learned a bunch of things I didn't know and loved Jeff's use of footnotes for extra detail.

Even if you're not a Fates Warning fan, but love metal and rock bios, this is a great read. It's thorough, but written so that even casual fans don't need to know the catalog inside out (pun very much intended), to enjoy the tale of this band.

Thrilled for Jeff, and for all of us Fates fans. So glad this story was told. Thank you Jeff!

Super-excited about this. Just ordered the book, yesterday night.

...and, while I was in a music-biography mood, I also went ahead and ordered "Building an Empire"...thought you might be happy to know 

I have a little relaxing vacation/getaway coming up in about a week, so that'll be a good time to do some reading on the greats of prog-metal 

[Samsara]

Thanks Nick. Appreciate it.

[Samsara]

Just got the promo for A-Z (Alder through Zonder). Really enjoying it so far. It's as described, melodic, hooky, shorter songs that are much more immediate. It absolutely has heavier moments (Joop Wolters has some great riffs and solos on here), but the thing that sticks out is...it's a big sound.

Looking forward to listening to it more.

[Samsara]

Review of the Fates Warning biography here:

https://focusonmetalpod.com/review-nothing-left-to-say-fates-warning-biography-leaves-no-stone-unturned-in-telling-the-bands-story/

[Mebert78]

Review of the Fates Warning biography here:

https://focusonmetalpod.com/review-nothing-left-to-say-fates-warning-biography-leaves-no-stone-unturned-in-telling-the-bands-story/

Excellent and well-written review. Thanks for sharing, Brian.

[WardySI]

Book ordered, shipping was a killer but am sure well worth it 

[Samsara]

Review of the Fates Warning biography here:

https://focusonmetalpod.com/review-nothing-left-to-say-fates-warning-biography-leaves-no-stone-unturned-in-telling-the-bands-story/

Excellent and well-written review. Thanks for sharing, Brian.

Thanks, Mike.

Book ordered, shipping was a killer but am sure well worth it 

It will be. Sooooooo good.

[SoundscapeMN]

Kings of Mercia - Kings of Mercia being released September 23rd.

https://www.metalblade.com/kingsofmercia/

Wrecking Ball:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9oJrJ4g27U

Also, in making that FW album series on my YouTube channel, i opened up and showed my Vinyl copy of Perfect Symmetry and found this pleasant surprise yesterday.

[WardySI]

Thanks for the update and link.  Typically expected this to be more prog but pleasantly surprised.

[Samsara]

Enjoyed Wrecking Ball quite a bit. I like when Jim goes a bit more straightforward in his writing.

[goo-goo]

Ripped the audio from the Live in Athens DVD and I must say, I love the energy of this live show. It has NDV on drums as well and Kevin Moore on Still Remains. A great show from the FWX tour.