The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[pg1067]

they need to release an isolated vocal mix of Life in Still Water.

To this day, I really have never been able to hear LaBrie on that track.

He sings the backing vocals on the chorus. They're very audible imo.

I'm with Soundscape.  The harmony vocals in the prechorus are a bit more clear ("Is there room still for us to grow within the bounds we've come to know" and the corresponding lines in the second and third prechoruses), but the backing vocals in the chorus ("Living life," "Blinded by," "You get tired" and "When you're not") are barely audible.  Of course, JLB was a complete nobody that that point, so it's not like they'd want to make him particularly prominent.  When I saw them at the Parallels reunion show in 2010, Frank handled these vocals like a champ.

[LudwigVan]

I agree with many here on the sentiment that you have to be in a certain mood to listen to and enjoy Fates Warning. They're a great band, for sure. There are times when I think... WOW... they do this prog metal thing MUCH better than Dream Theater has ever done. But then, something holds me back from rating them higher.

Dream Theater has a much broader range. For better or worse, they wear their influences on their sleeve. When I listen to DT, I hear Tool, U2, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Queen, Metallica, Red, Rush, Evanescence and... I could go on and on. But what FW do is rather niche and one-dimensional. From their debut album to ATG, they were essentially a Maiden-style NWOBHM band. No Exit was transitional, but from Perfect Symmetry on, they incorporated Pink Floyd-style atmospherics, which worked perfectly with Matheos' morose and highly introspective lyrics. Everything about FW is much more abstract... the obsession with geometry/balance/symmetry in their album titles is rather amusing. But in the end, their music is something that I need to be in a specific mood to enjoy.

All that said, I think I rate Theories of Flight a touch higher than Parallels. Heck, Perfect Symmetry might even beat Parallels for me.

[Deathless]

I agree with many here on the sentiment that you have to be in a certain mood to listen to and enjoy Fates Warning. They're a great band, for sure. There are times when I think... WOW... they do this prog metal thing MUCH better than Dream Theater has ever done. But then, something holds me back from rating them higher.

Dream Theater has a much broader range. For better or worse, they wear their influences on their sleeve. When I listen to DT, I hear Tool, U2, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Queen, Metallica, Red, Rush, Evanescence and... I could go on and on. But what FW do is rather niche and one-dimensional. From their debut album to ATG, they were essentially a Maiden-style NWOBHM band. No Exit was transitional, but from Perfect Symmetry on, they incorporated Pink Floyd-style atmospherics, which worked perfectly with Matheos' morose and highly introspective lyrics. Everything about FW is much more abstract... the obsession with geometry/balance/symmetry in their album titles is rather amusing. But in the end, their music is something that I need to be in a specific mood to enjoy.

All that said, I think I rate Theories of Flight a touch higher than Parallels. Heck, Perfect Symmetry might even beat Parallels for me.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened to FW if they had a breakthrough/mainstream hit. It would have been interesting to see FW having their own Pull Me Under. Their most-streamed track on spotify is "One" from Disconnected with just 1.4 million streams.

[pg1067]

I agree with many here on the sentiment that you have to be in a certain mood to listen to and enjoy Fates Warning. They're a great band, for sure. There are times when I think... WOW... they do this prog metal thing MUCH better than Dream Theater has ever done. But then, something holds me back from rating them higher.

Dream Theater has a much broader range. For better or worse, they wear their influences on their sleeve. When I listen to DT, I hear Tool, U2, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Queen, Metallica, Red, Rush, Evanescence and... I could go on and on. But what FW do is rather niche and one-dimensional. From their debut album to ATG, they were essentially a Maiden-style NWOBHM band. No Exit was transitional, but from Perfect Symmetry on, they incorporated Pink Floyd-style atmospherics, which worked perfectly with Matheos' morose and highly introspective lyrics. Everything about FW is much more abstract... the obsession with geometry/balance/symmetry in their album titles is rather amusing. But in the end, their music is something that I need to be in a specific mood to enjoy.

All that said, I think I rate Theories of Flight a touch higher than Parallels. Heck, Perfect Symmetry might even beat Parallels for me.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened to FW if they had a breakthrough/mainstream hit. It would have been interesting to see FW having their own Pull Me Under. Their most-streamed track on spotify is "One" from Disconnected with just 1.4 million streams.

Arguably, the two Eye songs should have been those songs.  FW's problem was a complete lack of label support.


On another note, I was reminded what an amazing live album Still Life is.  Complete versions of APSOG and TIGOD!  AND a live version of At Fate's Hands?!  And for those who like We Only Say Goodbye as an album closer, this is the album for you.  Ray was at a point where he could still hit a lot of the high notes but also understood that he couldn't hit them all and modified accordingly.

[WilliamMunny]

I agree with many here on the sentiment that you have to be in a certain mood to listen to and enjoy Fates Warning. They're a great band, for sure. There are times when I think... WOW... they do this prog metal thing MUCH better than Dream Theater has ever done. But then, something holds me back from rating them higher.

Dream Theater has a much broader range. For better or worse, they wear their influences on their sleeve. When I listen to DT, I hear Tool, U2, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Queen, Metallica, Red, Rush, Evanescence and... I could go on and on. But what FW do is rather niche and one-dimensional. From their debut album to ATG, they were essentially a Maiden-style NWOBHM band. No Exit was transitional, but from Perfect Symmetry on, they incorporated Pink Floyd-style atmospherics, which worked perfectly with Matheos' morose and highly introspective lyrics. Everything about FW is much more abstract... the obsession with geometry/balance/symmetry in their album titles is rather amusing. But in the end, their music is something that I need to be in a specific mood to enjoy.

All that said, I think I rate Theories of Flight a touch higher than Parallels. Heck, Perfect Symmetry might even beat Parallels for me.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened to FW if they had a breakthrough/mainstream hit. It would have been interesting to see FW having their own Pull Me Under. Their most-streamed track on spotify is "One" from Disconnected with just 1.4 million streams.

Arguably, the two Eye songs should have been those songs.  FW's problem was a complete lack of label support.


On another note, I was reminded what an amazing live album Still Life is.  Complete versions of APSOG and TIGOD!  AND a live version of At Fate's Hands?!  And for those who like We Only Say Goodbye as an album closer, this is the album for you.  Ray was at a point where he could still hit a lot of the high notes but also understood that he couldn't hit them all and modified accordingly.

I have a playlist of my 'definitive' APSOG, and 9 of the twelve tracks are versions taken from Still Life. The production is simply breathtaking, and the meatier guitar sound combined with Joey's bass being higher in the mix just puts the whole thing over.

Why only 9 of the 12 tracks you ask? Well, unfortunately, the backing vocals overpower in a couple of places, and absolutely ruin a couple of songs. (this is why I will never complain about JP's mic being low)

[pg1067]

Why only 9 of the 12 tracks you ask? Well, unfortunately, the backing vocals overpower in a couple of places, and absolutely ruin a couple of songs. (this is why I will never complain about JP's mic being low)

Out of curiosity, which are the three tracks?

[WilliamMunny]

Why only 9 of the 12 tracks you ask? Well, unfortunately, the backing vocals overpower in a couple of places, and absolutely ruin a couple of songs. (this is why I will never complain about JP's mic being low)

Out of curiosity, which are the three tracks?

Parts 6, 7 & 9.

[WilliamMunny]

To be fair, I 'like' Still Life as a whole, and have listened to it a thousand times (that second disc has some definitive versions for me as well), but whenever I listen to APSOG, I wind up listening to both versions, so I finally comped together my fav versions.

On a side note, I listened to FWX this past week, and while I know it isn't a fan favorite, I personally rate it very high. For me, the record has a potent mix of 'straight-ahead rockers' and moody, prog pieces in the vein of OSI (which I love). It's not necessarily what I want from the band every time, but as a single statement, I think it's a high point in their catalog.

[WardySI]

...
On a side note, I listened to FWX this past week, and while I know it isn't a fan favorite, I personally rate it very high. For me, the record has a potent mix of 'straight-ahead rockers' and moody, prog pieces in the vein of OSI (which I love). It's not necessarily what I want from the band every time, but as a single statement, I think it's a high point in their catalog.

'A Handfull Of Doubt' and 'Wish' are two of the finest songs of their catalogue IMO!

[Nel]

'A Handfull Of Doubt' and 'Wish' are two of the finest songs of their catalogue IMO!

Absolutely agree. FWX is pretty "peaks and valleys" for me, but Handful Of Doubt, Wish, Left Here and Another Perfect Day are some of my favorites by the band. Wish in particular is absolutely beautiful.

[jammindude]

That’s the thing. Even at their peak I’m pretty ho-hum about FWs “straight ahead rockers” and I always have been. Through Different Eyes (their first attempt at a single) is still IMO one of the weaker tracks from PS. The singles from Parallels feel the same way. Fast forward to FWX and I hear the same thing. Weak attempts at some sort of catchy single (Another Perfect Day being a prime example) that just don’t work to me. It always feels (to me) like Jim is writing outside his natural wheelhouse, and he just isn’t very good at it.

Fortunately, he tends to stick to the moodier pieces I love for most of any album he does.

[pg1067]

That’s the thing. Even at their peak I’m pretty ho-hum about FWs “straight ahead rockers” and I always have been. Through Different Eyes (their first attempt at a single) is still IMO one of the weaker tracks from PS. The singles from Parallels feel the same way. Fast forward to FWX and I hear the same thing. Weak attempts at some sort of catchy single (Another Perfect Day being a prime example) that just don’t work to me. It always feels (to me) like Jim is writing outside his natural wheelhouse, and he just isn’t very good at it.

Fortunately, he tends to stick to the moodier pieces I love for most of any album he does.

Through Different Eyes, in retrospect, sounds like a bit of a ham handed attempt to blend a commercially accessible sound with prog.  Eye to Eye does the job MUCH better (as does Point of View).  Another Perfect Day is pretty much the only song on FWX I care to listen to.

[Lethean]

I agree with many here on the sentiment that you have to be in a certain mood to listen to and enjoy Fates Warning. They're a great band, for sure. There are times when I think... WOW... they do this prog metal thing MUCH better than Dream Theater has ever done. But then, something holds me back from rating them higher.

Dream Theater has a much broader range. For better or worse, they wear their influences on their sleeve. When I listen to DT, I hear Tool, U2, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Queen, Metallica, Red, Rush, Evanescence and... I could go on and on. But what FW do is rather niche and one-dimensional. From their debut album to ATG, they were essentially a Maiden-style NWOBHM band. No Exit was transitional, but from Perfect Symmetry on, they incorporated Pink Floyd-style atmospherics, which worked perfectly with Matheos' morose and highly introspective lyrics. Everything about FW is much more abstract... the obsession with geometry/balance/symmetry in their album titles is rather amusing. But in the end, their music is something that I need to be in a specific mood to enjoy.

All that said, I think I rate Theories of Flight a touch higher than Parallels. Heck, Perfect Symmetry might even beat Parallels for me.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened to FW if they had a breakthrough/mainstream hit. It would have been interesting to see FW having their own Pull Me Under. Their most-streamed track on spotify is "One" from Disconnected with just 1.4 million streams.

One being the most streamed makes sense to me.  It's a song that they always play but I never get tired of it.  It just has this great energy to it and when I play it I always think of hearing it live and the band on stage and the excitement in the crowd.

On having to be in a certain mood for Fates: I get why people would feel that way.  They're one of my favorites and top 10 most listened to bands, so it doesn't seem to be that way for me. I have to be in the mood for No Exit I suppose, but the rest of the Ray catalog is something I listen to pretty regularly.

[Lethean]

.On a side note, I listened to FWX this past week, and while I know it isn't a fan favorite, I personally rate it very high. For me, the record has a potent mix of 'straight-ahead rockers' and moody, prog pieces in the vein of OSI (which I love). It's not necessarily what I want from the band every time, but as a single statement, I think it's a high point in their catalog.

I think it is too.  I remember reading some negative opinions when it came out - nothing panning it, but just unenthusiastic.  And I kinda felt the same way, that it was a bit bland.   But in reality it was just a grower (for me).  After a while I came to love those songs and now the album is one of my favorites.

[SoundscapeMN]

Book Preorder
https://radicalresearch.org/product/destination-onward-the-story-of-fates-warning-book-by-jeff-wagner/

[pg1067]

Book Preorder
https://radicalresearch.org/product/destination-onward-the-story-of-fates-warning-book-by-jeff-wagner/

Ordered mine yesterday.

[nick_z]

(Very) Random post alert:

So, I was revisiting some old Skid Row albums (the classic Slave to the Grind, in particular), then I thought what the heck, I haven't listened to Subhuman Race in forever...and I had forgotten about the song "Into Another"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apZt7fwMFYM

Am I crazy, or this has Inside Out-era Fates Warning vibes? Perhaps a little grungier, but between the drumming, the clean guitars and even the vocal melodies, I could've mistaken it for a catchy FW single...

[TAC]

Listening to the song for the first time. Yeah, I can totally see that.

[The Realm]

Skid Row! Now there is a band that doesn't get much mention on this forum (I think anyway) especially in a Fates Warning page. Yeah, I can totally see what you are saying Nick. I don't think I would ever have said it myself but now you mention it I can totally see it.

[HOF]

(Very) Random post alert:

So, I was revisiting some old Skid Row albums (the classic Slave to the Grind, in particular), then I thought what the heck, I haven't listened to Subhuman Race in forever...and I had forgotten about the song "Into Another"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apZt7fwMFYM

Am I crazy, or this has Inside Out-era Fates Warning vibes? Perhaps a little grungier, but between the drumming, the clean guitars and even the vocal melodies, I could've mistaken it for a catchy FW single...

I love that song and album. I guess I could see some similarities with FW. Always thought Subhuman Race leaned a little bit proggy. Firesign is another really cool track from that album.

[SoundscapeMN]

new Radical Research Podcast from Jeff Wagner about Fates Warning

https://radicalresearch.org/episode-82-fates-warning-an-impromptu-discussion/

[Mebert78]

new Radical Research Podcast from Jeff Wagner about Fates Warning

https://radicalresearch.org/episode-82-fates-warning-an-impromptu-discussion/

Fun interview.  I could listen to Jeff talk about Fates all day long.

[Samsara]

Jeff and I exchanged messages a bit about the Queensryche portion of that -- regarding the "essence" of the band being impacted on where they lived. How Fates really has that sound of fall in New England, and QR has that sound of Seattle in it.

Great podcast about all things Fates. Glad they tackled the stuff about Ray and John, and loved the back and forth on all the records. I was in lockstep with Jeff regarding Theories of Flight.

One thing I have thought about a lot since listening to that podcast yesterday, was how Inside Out was a darker, more melodic version of Parallels and ironically, I also consider Long Day Goodnight to be a darker, or similar version of Theories of Flight.

To me, each of those records (Inside Out and Long Day Goodnight) show the least amount of growth/evolution in the band's sound from one record to another.

Can't wait to read Jeff's book. He and I got introduced when I was writing portions of the Queensryche bio, as I had some Fates info I wanted to put in there, and so we discussed it a bit. Seems like a great guy and look forward to reading his book and getting to know him a bit more.

[SoundscapeMN]

yeah I can follow the "essence" idea, and the melancholy part. To me, that is 1 of the things I've felt stood out with Fates and Jim's writing. The beauty and emotion that comes from sadness.

I actually have been meaning to make a series of videos on YouTube about each Fates Warning album and then do a ranking. The podcast and the upcoming book (and even the 2 upcoming Projects A-Z and Kings of Mercia), may escalate that soon.

[Samsara]

yeah I can follow the "essence" idea, and the melancholy part. To me, that is 1 of the things I've felt stood out with Fates and Jim's writing. The beauty and emotion that comes from sadness.

I actually have been meaning to make a series of videos on YouTube about each Fates Warning album and then do a ranking. The podcast and the upcoming book (and even the 2 upcoming Projects A-Z and Kings of Mercia), may escalate that soon.

You totally should. More Fates content is always welcome. Book I think arrives next week and then it'll be shipped out. I'm so glad Jeff is the one doing it. It's going to be a great read.

[Samsara]

Books arrived today. My guess is, they'll start going out tomorrow through the rest of the week for those of us who pre-ordered. Should have 'em next week! Fingers crossed. Can't wait to dive in. I didn't want an advance. I just want to crack the cover and enjoy this.

[WardySI]

Will be ordering next week or so very keen for this 🤘

[jammindude]

I pre-ordered on May 15 the first day that I saw the link to order it. But I have not received any notification that it has shipped.

[TAC]

What kind of information would one want to get from this book? I assume the change from Arch to Alder maybe, but then I'd assume most Fates fans would know this already.

Personally, I'd be interested in how Joey Vera got involved in the band, but have Fates fans heard this before?

I guess what I am asking is what questions do you guys want answered in this book? What are you most interested in?


I am an extremely casual Fates fan, but I'm interested in a hardcore's expectations for this book.

[pg1067]

I mean...Fates is not exactly an open book (no pun intended).  Maybe there's stuff out there, but it's not like DT where there was one or more central repositories.  Jim Matheos is about as talkative as John Myung.

I got into Fates after Arch and probably right around the time Zimmerman was leaving.  I know virtually nothing about those splits beyond that Arch was more his decision than anything else (I think).  I read one interview with DiBiase in which he talked about why he left, but I know virtually nothing else. 

[jammindude]

I’m going from memory, but I seem to remember that it was originally promoted as having information that it never been revealed before. So I’m hoping for some new insight. As to the source of the information, I wouldn’t be able to see until I got my hands on the book.

I assume they are also going to talk to Victor Arduni. But the last interview I saw with him (which was AGES ago) he didn’t come across very pleasant.

[goo-goo]

I mean...Fates is not exactly an open book (no pun intended).  Maybe there's stuff out there, but it's not like DT where there was one or more central repositories.  Jim Matheos is about as talkative as John Myung.

This is how I exactly feel about Jim Matheos. He has become my favorite musician in the last decade. Everything he does is gold for my ears. There is a mystique about the guy, his lyrics, his guitar playing (not the most technical but his riffs have always been very original).

[goo-goo]

Dies anyone know if the book will be released on Kindle? I pre-ordered the book but I have been traveling a lot for work and it is just more practical if I take it with me as an e-book.

[Samsara]

re: Kindle

I can't speak for Jeff, but right now it seems it is direct order only through fateswarningbook.com. I know places like MetalBlade and Laser's Edge have ordered copies for resale. But its not currently on Amazon or Amazon Kindle. I know when we did the Queensryche book, Amazon was a hassle. Kindle requires a reformat of most books too, which was an additional designer expense.

re: What hardcores want out of the book

I got into Fates WAY too late (it wasn't until I heard "One" being performed live in 2003 on the QR/DT/FW tour, but I immediately went full-on hardcore nut after the first of two shows I saw that summer and bought the catalog. So while I know a good chunk, there are still things I want details about:

1. The alleged tension from a songwriting perspective between Matheos and Aresti (could have sworn I saw documentary footage detailing this, and I think I own it as its on a major release, but I can't remember which).

2. The transition from Arch to Alder (obviously I know it, want to know more).

3. The "hiatus" from 2004-2013 - OSI was active then, Ray was in Redemption, etc.

4. Some detail on all the 80s and 90s tours I missed.

5. Jim's creative process

6. Some detailed look into APSOG, which I think still fans are split on (I at first didn't get it - it was my intro to them - shelved it, and then after I fell in love with "One" from Disconnected, I put APSOG back on and "got it." Still enjoy it, but it's not my go-to.

7. Kevin Moore's involvement with the band.

8. I could swear up and down when I saw the 2003 QR/DT/FW tour, that Frank Aresti was not at the shows in Northern California, as something happened. FW was a four-piece at those shows. At least I think they were. Hoping that Jeff covers that 2003 tour intently so I can have my memory refreshed.

9. The realities of touring in the 2010s and how that impacted FW.

I could go on and on, Tim...

[goo-goo]

Got a reply from Jeff and he said that he is working on it but won’t be available until sometime next year.