The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[WilliamMunny]

Disconnected is one of the most beautiful atmospheric albums I’ve ever heard. The crown jewel is obviously Still Remains (my father had Parkinson’s for years and finally fell asleep in death in 2007. Blasting that song and bawling my eyes out was very cathartic at the time) but the song that took much longer to grow on me was Something from Nothing. The build up of tension in that song is off the chart! Sometimes I actually wish the intro went on a bit longer before the vocals kick in. That song is the definition of “moody”

Yeah, that flange effect on Zinder’s cymbals when the drums kick in is just the best.

Some records age better than others, and for my money, Disconnected is the epitome of ‘fine wine’

[goo-goo]

Disconnected WAS my favorite FW album until Theories of Flight came out. And I stumbled with Disconnected by "accident". I was browsing FYE (back in the day), and I found the album cover a bit "disturbing" (I was 18 at that time). And every time I returned to FYE, I kept staring at that album until one day I said fuck it. And holy shit. It blew my mind. At that time I was just listening to  Dream Theater and LTE since I had barely discovered DT (1998) and LTE (1999) and SFAM had came out so I spun that album for like 8 months straight. Then Disconnected took over for another 6 months and started buying their back catalogue.

[Lethean]

What, no..... Island in the Stream is sooooo good!

I think Inside Out is a fine album in general; if there is hate for it, it definitely doesn't come from me.

Agreed  Love Island in the Stream...Ray Alder's singing is sublime, and the combo of the clean electric and acoustic guitars in the verses is so good. Then its unusual structure, the subtle strings and the outro with Zonder's super-tasteful drumming...everything comes together real nice.

Yes, yes it is indeed.  I agree with everything else here as well, but I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

[TAC]

I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

Oh I agree.

I only saw FW once, at a very small club on the Inside Out tour, and I stood like 3 feet away from Ray Alder the whole show, and I loved watching him.

[pg1067]

Apart from Island in the Stream (sorry...it's not bad...just meh), the only thing I don't like about Inside Out is that my band's former singer got a "thanks" credit in the liner notes.  The guy had never heard of FW until I introduced him to the band.  After we kicked him out of the band, he moved to the Phoenix area and apparently became acquainted/friends with Ray.  I don't know what he did to get the mention in the liner notes, but I'll never forget when the guitarist and I noticed it.  We were PISSED (slash jealous).

[Lethean]

I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

Oh I agree.

I only saw FW once, at a very small club on the Inside Out tour, and I stood like 3 feet away from Ray Alder the whole show, and I loved watching him.

You should see them again next time, whenever they get back on the road.  He's still a great front man.

[pg1067]

I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

Oh I agree.

I only saw FW once, at a very small club on the Inside Out tour, and I stood like 3 feet away from Ray Alder the whole show, and I loved watching him.

You should see them again next time, whenever they get back on the road.  He's still a great front man.

I'd say he's still a great lead singer, and I look at him/FW as the blueprint of how to deal with a singer's range decreased by age.  I'm not sure he's ever been a great "front man" (which, for FW, he doesn't need to be).

[Lethean]

I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

Oh I agree.

I only saw FW once, at a very small club on the Inside Out tour, and I stood like 3 feet away from Ray Alder the whole show, and I loved watching him.

You should see them again next time, whenever they get back on the road.  He's still a great front man.

I'd say he's still a great lead singer, and I look at him/FW as the blueprint of how to deal with a singer's range decreased by age.  I'm not sure he's ever been a great "front man" (which, for FW, he doesn't need to be).

I think he's both.  But I recognize from reading other comments here and elsewhere over the years that maybe my idea of a great frontman is different than others. I think he brings a lot of energy to the stage, and that's really all I'm looking for.

[SoundscapeMN]

Disconnected is great an even though I always have put APSOG over it, I've definitely listened to it more per it just is songs, as opposed to APSOG which is 1 long piece like Thick as a Brick.

[pg1067]

I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

Oh I agree.

I only saw FW once, at a very small club on the Inside Out tour, and I stood like 3 feet away from Ray Alder the whole show, and I loved watching him.

You should see them again next time, whenever they get back on the road.  He's still a great front man.

I'd say he's still a great lead singer, and I look at him/FW as the blueprint of how to deal with a singer's range decreased by age.  I'm not sure he's ever been a great "front man" (which, for FW, he doesn't need to be).

I think he's both.  But I recognize from reading other comments here and elsewhere over the years that maybe my idea of a great frontman is different than others. I think he brings a lot of energy to the stage, and that's really all I'm looking for.

Regardless, I have never walked out of an FW show wanting for more.

[nick_z]

I have (unfortunately) only witnessed Fates Warning live once, when they opened for DT on the Awake tour, but it was such a FANTASTIC (short) show.

Not quite the same, obviously, but I have to say their Live Over Europe is one of my favorite live albums of the last few years, period. There's some incredible energy in those performances, and the "setlist" (I know it's a collection from many shows) is a pretty great representation of the Alder era. There isn't a ton from APSOG, but considering the whole thing was on Still Life, I'm not complaining 

[jammindude]

I have (unfortunately) only witnessed Fates Warning live once, when they opened for DT on the Awake tour, but it was such a FANTASTIC (short) show.

Not quite the same, obviously, but I have to say their Live Over Europe is one of my favorite live albums of the last few years, period. There's some incredible energy in those performances, and the "setlist" (I know it's a collection from many shows) is a pretty great representation of the Alder era. There isn't a ton from APSOG, but considering the whole thing was on Still Life, I'm not complaining 

REALLY glad they preserved a full performance when it came out.

I almost forgot that I bought the expanded version when it came out. I don’t think I’ve actually watched that show since I had it on VHS. 

EDIT - I went downstairs to go look at that collection again and I had completely forgotten that there’s a second full performance on that DVD that I’ve never even seen at all!

[nick_z]

I have (unfortunately) only witnessed Fates Warning live once, when they opened for DT on the Awake tour, but it was such a FANTASTIC (short) show.

Not quite the same, obviously, but I have to say their Live Over Europe is one of my favorite live albums of the last few years, period. There's some incredible energy in those performances, and the "setlist" (I know it's a collection from many shows) is a pretty great representation of the Alder era. There isn't a ton from APSOG, but considering the whole thing was on Still Life, I'm not complaining 

REALLY glad they preserved a full performance when it came out.

I almost forgot that I bought the expanded version when it came out. I don’t think I’ve actually watched that show since I had it on VHS. 

EDIT - I went downstairs to go look at that collection again and I had completely forgotten that there’s a second full performance on that DVD that I’ve never even seen at all!

Ha! I didn't even know of an expanded edition! I have the double CD Still Life with the full album on one CD and a variety of songs on the other, and then I have the APSOG - Live VHS (!)...are you saying there is another live DVD?

[Cool Chris]

This is a forum favorite that I feel I should like, yet never got in to, and probably one I never really gave a fair shake. So I aim to change that, as a tackle their discography.

Will report back in a week or two!

[Lethean]

I really think Ray is fantastic.  And I think he's a fantastic singer overall.  Even though he may struggle now with older material - I don't care.  He's so expressive and has a really unique delivery.

Oh I agree.

I only saw FW once, at a very small club on the Inside Out tour, and I stood like 3 feet away from Ray Alder the whole show, and I loved watching him.

You should see them again next time, whenever they get back on the road.  He's still a great front man.

I'd say he's still a great lead singer, and I look at him/FW as the blueprint of how to deal with a singer's range decreased by age.  I'm not sure he's ever been a great "front man" (which, for FW, he doesn't need to be).

I think he's both.  But I recognize from reading other comments here and elsewhere over the years that maybe my idea of a great frontman is different than others. I think he brings a lot of energy to the stage, and that's really all I'm looking for.

Regardless, I have never walked out of an FW show wanting for more.

Ah, I definitely have.  I would love them to be able to do an evening type show because their shows always seem to fly by.

[Lethean]

This is a forum favorite that I feel I should like, yet never got in to, and probably one I never really gave a fair shake. So I aim to change that, as a tackle their discography.

Will report back in a week or two!

Have fun!  I guess it could go either way - curious how you'll feel about them.

[TAC]

They have a really diverse discography.

[Cool Chris]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

[jammindude]

I have (unfortunately) only witnessed Fates Warning live once, when they opened for DT on the Awake tour, but it was such a FANTASTIC (short) show.

Not quite the same, obviously, but I have to say their Live Over Europe is one of my favorite live albums of the last few years, period. There's some incredible energy in those performances, and the "setlist" (I know it's a collection from many shows) is a pretty great representation of the Alder era. There isn't a ton from APSOG, but considering the whole thing was on Still Life, I'm not complaining 

REALLY glad they preserved a full performance when it came out.

I almost forgot that I bought the expanded version when it came out. I don’t think I’ve actually watched that show since I had it on VHS. 

EDIT - I went downstairs to go look at that collection again and I had completely forgotten that there’s a second full performance on that DVD that I’ve never even seen at all!

Ha! I didn't even know of an expanded edition! I have the double CD Still Life with the full album on one CD and a variety of songs on the other, and then I have the APSOG - Live VHS (!)...are you saying there is another live DVD?

I think the expanded edition came out on the 20th anniversary five years ago?  It’s 3CDs/1DVD. Disc 1 is the remastered album, disc 2 is the live performance from the VHS, disc 3 is demos. The DVD has 2 complete performances. The remastered show from the VHS, and a 2nd performance from 1998 at The Whiskey which I’ve never seen.

[TAC]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

How do you plan on tackling them? Chronologically from the start? Working backwards? Jumping around?

[jammindude]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

The thing about FW is that depending on the album, you’re going to get a COMPLETELY different band.

The Arch-era started as a Iron Maiden wannabe, but started to get more complex very quickly.

When Arch left and Ray Alder came in, they traded a Bruce Dickenson soundalike for a Geoff Tate soundalike. The first offering retained the IM heaviness, but contained their first sidelong attempt (ala 2112) but then started to get more melodic like Queensryche and Dream Theater. (This is considered their peak by many people…but it depends) But when that failed commercially, two band members left and the guitar player/primary song writer took 100% control and made a huge comeback with an extremely atmospheric sound that embraced more Pink Floyd (think Shine On you Crazy Diamond soundscapes) types of “world building”.  After two of those albums…a new lineup solidified that blended old heaviness with the new atmosphere and that’s where we are now.

[Cool Chris]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

How do you plan on tackling them? Chronologically from the start? Working backwards? Jumping around?

Any time I do something like this I default to chronologically.

[Lethean]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

The thing about FW is that depending on the album, you’re going to get a COMPLETELY different band.

The Arch-era started as a Iron Maiden wannabe, but started to get more complex very quickly.

When Arch left and Ray Alder came in, they traded a Bruce Dickenson soundalike for a Geoff Tate soundalike.

Huh.  I think both singers are pretty far from being soundalikes.  Maybe Ray is sorta kinda in the Geoff Tate ball park, but he has his own style and his own voice.  And I don't think Arch sounds anything like Bruce Dickinson.

Funny how we all hear things differently.

[jammindude]

Ray Alder has become his own thing. But No Exit was totally a show off by a young kid who thought he’d be able to do it forever.

But not hearing the BD soundalike in early Arch baffles me. He’s a bit more nasel-y and sings from the throat more…but nearly everyone heard the similarities when he was in the band back in the day. The fans spoke of it…the media of the time spoke of it…etc

[gzarruk]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

How do you plan on tackling them? Chronologically from the start? Working backwards? Jumping around?

Any time I do something like this I default to chronologically.

I would avoid the first three

[jammindude]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

How do you plan on tackling them? Chronologically from the start? Working backwards? Jumping around?

Any time I do something like this I default to chronologically.

I would avoid the first three

Unless you’ve heard (and enjoy) the Arch/Matheos albums. In which case, jump in. Just remember that the 1st album is very much like the first Rush album. A bunch of kids imitating their heroes who haven’t found their sound yet, but stumbled upon one or two gems in the process.

[Lethean]

Ray Alder has become his own thing. But No Exit was totally a show off by a young kid who thought he’d be able to do it forever.

But not hearing the BD soundalike in early Arch baffles me. He’s a bit more nasel-y and sings from the throat more…but nearly everyone heard the similarities when he was in the band back in the day. The fans spoke of it…the media of the time spoke of it…etc

Maybe I should revisit those albums, because the voice I'm hearing in my head now is from Arch/Matheos, but I never thought that about him and Bruce Dickinson.  I listened to Awaken the Guardian quite a bit a few years ago so I'd know it better for the reunion show, and just never thought that.  I think Arch's vocal melodies are soo different (that just about anyone) and the tone of his voice is different than Bruce's.  But it's been quite awhile since I listened to the 1st two and I never listened to them all that much.

[jammindude]

The tone is slightly different. As I said, he is more nasally. But if you listen to early Bruce (NOTB, POM) and then listen to the first 2-3 FW albums…you’ll hear the similarities we were all hearing at the time.

[pg1067]

I have (unfortunately) only witnessed Fates Warning live once, when they opened for DT on the Awake tour, but it was such a FANTASTIC (short) show.

Not quite the same, obviously, but I have to say their Live Over Europe is one of my favorite live albums of the last few years, period. There's some incredible energy in those performances, and the "setlist" (I know it's a collection from many shows) is a pretty great representation of the Alder era. There isn't a ton from APSOG, but considering the whole thing was on Still Life, I'm not complaining 

REALLY glad they preserved a full performance when it came out.

I almost forgot that I bought the expanded version when it came out. I don’t think I’ve actually watched that show since I had it on VHS. 

EDIT - I went downstairs to go look at that collection again and I had completely forgotten that there’s a second full performance on that DVD that I’ve never even seen at all!

Ha! I didn't even know of an expanded edition! I have the double CD Still Life with the full album on one CD and a variety of songs on the other, and then I have the APSOG - Live VHS (!)...are you saying there is another live DVD?

I think the expanded edition came out on the 20th anniversary five years ago?  It’s 3CDs/1DVD. Disc 1 is the remastered album, disc 2 is the live performance from the VHS, disc 3 is demos. The DVD has 2 complete performances. The remastered show from the VHS, and a 2nd performance from 1998 at The Whiskey which I’ve never seen.

Are we talking about the expanded edition of....what?  There's an anniversary edition of APSOG that was released in 2007, and which includes a DVD version of the Pleasant Shade of Gray Live VHS.  I believe there's also a second CD of rough mixes.

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

The thing about FW is that depending on the album, you’re going to get a COMPLETELY different band.

The Arch-era started as a Iron Maiden wannabe, but started to get more complex very quickly.

When Arch left and Ray Alder came in, they traded a Bruce Dickenson soundalike for a Geoff Tate soundalike.

Huh.  I think both singers are pretty far from being soundalikes.  Maybe Ray is sorta kinda in the Geoff Tate ball park, but he has his own style and his own voice.  And I don't think Arch sounds anything like Bruce Dickinson.

Agree.  I about did a spit take when I read Arch described as a "Bruce Dickenson [sic] soundalike."  And that's not even factoring in the fact that Bruce has always been excellent live, while Arch might be the single worst live vocalist I've ever heard (at least as far as the stuff from the '80s goes).

I've always described Night on Brocken as an attempt to sound like Maiden, but with a vastly inferior singer.

As far as Chris's dive into the albums, I see no reason not to default to going chronologically.  Brocken might be a bit of a slog, but things change pretty quickly (even though it's the same lineup on Spectre).  The addition of Frank Aresti on Guardian shows a huge leap, and No Exit with Ray was spot on for 1988 (the heyday of Operation: Mindcrime).

[nick_z]

Ha! I didn't even know of an expanded edition! I have the double CD Still Life with the full album on one CD and a variety of songs on the other, and then I have the APSOG - Live VHS (!)...are you saying there is another live DVD?

I think the expanded edition came out on the 20th anniversary five years ago?  It’s 3CDs/1DVD. Disc 1 is the remastered album, disc 2 is the live performance from the VHS, disc 3 is demos. The DVD has 2 complete performances. The remastered show from the VHS, and a 2nd performance from 1998 at The Whiskey which I’ve never seen.

Are we talking about the expanded edition of....what?  There's an anniversary edition of APSOG that was released in 2007, and which includes a DVD version of the Pleasant Shade of Gray Live VHS.  I believe there's also a second CD of rough mixes.

Got it! I thought there was some sort of expanded edition of Still life. Here we are talking about the APSOG re-issue. I don't have that one, but I do have (somewhere!) the APSOG Live VHS.

[nick_z]

Incidentally, I just checked out the expanded version of APSOG, as we were just talking about it...one of the bonus tracks is a cover of The Scorps' In Trance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn7woG3UMo

Pretty cool (and very faithful to the original, actually)

[TAC]

Incidentally, I just checked out the expanded version of APSOG, as we were just talking about it...one of the bonus tracks is a cover of The Scorps' In Trance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLn7woG3UMo

Pretty cool (and very faithful to the original, actually)

That was on some Scorps tribute album I believe. I have that song. It's a perfect song for Ray.

[jammindude]

That came out in 2007? Huh…my bad. I thought it came out on the last anniversary of the album. Guess I was mistaken.

[Lethean]

Stadler is wont to say "we like who we like" and I wholeheartedly agree, so when I say I should like them it is just based on trends and suppositions. It is mostly about giving them a good chance, when I don't think I have done properly.

The thing about FW is that depending on the album, you’re going to get a COMPLETELY different band.

The Arch-era started as a Iron Maiden wannabe, but started to get more complex very quickly.

When Arch left and Ray Alder came in, they traded a Bruce Dickenson soundalike for a Geoff Tate soundalike.

Huh.  I think both singers are pretty far from being soundalikes.  Maybe Ray is sorta kinda in the Geoff Tate ball park, but he has his own style and his own voice.  And I don't think Arch sounds anything like Bruce Dickinson.

Agree.  I about did a spit take when I read Arch described as a "Bruce Dickenson [sic] soundalike."  And that's not even factoring in the fact that Bruce has always been excellent live, while Arch might be the single worst live vocalist I've ever heard (at least as far as the stuff from the '80s goes).

I've always described Night on Brocken as an attempt to sound like Maiden, but with a vastly inferior singer.

Oh, oh good. At least if I'm crazy, so are you.

As far as Chris's dive into the albums, I see no reason not to default to going chronologically.  Brocken might be a bit of a slog, but things change pretty quickly (even though it's the same lineup on Spectre).  The addition of Frank Aresti on Guardian shows a huge leap, and No Exit with Ray was spot on for 1988 (the heyday of Operation: Mindcrime).

Chronologically seems like a good way to go.  If he hates Arch's voice, certainly he should skip ahead before giving up on the band, but otherwise, I like the chronological approach.

[WardySI]

Expect I'm in the minority here but to this day I think their Live In Athens show/DVD is still their best \m/