The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[nick_z]

I agree with you, and I mentioned it before too, it's hard to compare the debut-through-Awaken the Guardian era and the post-ATG era (yes, No Exit is somewhat transitional, and it's the arrival of Mark Zonder that truly, um, marks the start of FW's second era, but still)...but here's the ranking I'd go with if asked now:

1. Parallels
2. Inside Out
3. Perfect Symmetry
4. A Pleasant Shade of Gray
5. Disconnected
6. Theories of Flight
7. No Exit
8. Long Day Good Night
9. Darkness in a Different Light
10. Awaken the Guardian
11. FWX
12. The Spectre Within
13. Night on Brocken

[SoundscapeMN]

(yes, No Exit is somewhat transitional, and it's the arrival of Mark Zonder that truly, um, marks the start of FW's second era, but still)

You mean Perfect Symmetry is the arrival of Mark Zonder.

[nick_z]

(yes, No Exit is somewhat transitional, and it's the arrival of Mark Zonder that truly, um, marks the start of FW's second era, but still)

You mean Perfect Symmetry is the arrival of Mark Zonder.

Yes, I was contrasting the era through Awaken the Guardian vs. the era post-Awaken the Guardian. My point was that while No Exit is (clearly  ) the first album post-ATG, it's still kind of "in between" - there are traces of "old" FW, still. It's when Mark Zonder came on board (on Perfect Symmetry) that FW truly changed.

[pg1067]

(yes, No Exit is somewhat transitional, and it's the arrival of Mark Zonder that truly, um, marks the start of FW's second era, but still)

You mean Perfect Symmetry is the arrival of Mark Zonder.

Yes, I was contrasting the era through Awaken the Guardian vs. the era post-Awaken the Guardian. My point was that while No Exit is (clearly  ) the first album post-ATG, it's still kind of "in between" - there are traces of "old" FW, still. It's when Mark Zonder came on board (on Perfect Symmetry) that FW truly changed.

The bottom line is that, from ATG to NE, Arch was replaced by Alder, and from NE to PS, Zimmerman was replaced by Zonder (apparently, only guys with the letter "z" in their last name are allowed to drum on Fates albums).  I agree that NE was a transitional album.  ATG and PS sound like two different bands.

[nick_z]

The bottom line is that, from ATG to NE, Arch was replaced by Alder, and from NE to PS, Zimmerman was replaced by Zonder (apparently, only guys with the letter "z" in their last name are allowed to drum on Fates albums).  I agree that NE was a transitional album.  ATG and PS sound like two different bands.

Incidentally, Perfect Symmetry was my first FW album. While there were some great melodies to hold on to, it was overall a pretty difficult album, with all of its angular riffs and complex drumming. I was in full music discovery mode at the time and I didn't 100% appreciate it right away but, man, the payoff was so great when I did.

[pg1067]

The bottom line is that, from ATG to NE, Arch was replaced by Alder, and from NE to PS, Zimmerman was replaced by Zonder (apparently, only guys with the letter "z" in their last name are allowed to drum on Fates albums).  I agree that NE was a transitional album.  ATG and PS sound like two different bands.

Incidentally, Perfect Symmetry was my first FW album. While there were some great melodies to hold on to, it was overall a pretty difficult album, with all of its angular riffs and complex drumming. I was in full music discovery mode at the time and I didn't 100% appreciate it right away but, man, the payoff was so great when I did.

No Exit was my first.  I searched out the album based on an MTV segment about three "bands you might also like if you like Queensryche" (this was while Operation: Mindcrime was becoming super popular).  They mentioned both Fates and Dream Theater, but I couldn't find WDADU until after I&W broke.  However, I found No Exit without much trouble.  Blew me away (especially The Ivory Gate of Dreams).  Perfect Symmetry was definitely a big change, but it came at the right time for me since I was also getting heavily into Yes's back catalog at the same time.

[WardySI]

Parallels was my first but I don't recall why it didn't click at the time.  It was then some years later the excellent Disconnected dragged me back and once I opened up the bag of Fates again Parallels was like the second coming of Queensryche's Empire.  Fair to say I was blown the fark away and never looked back since. 

Everything they've done is essential particularly the Alder era although Parallels remains the personal fave and I still think Life In Still Water is beyond compare.  Just

[Mebert78]

Happy 25th anniversary to the masterpiece that is A Pleasant Shade of Gray.  I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for some shows this summer or fall celebrating the album's anniversary, with an encore of songs from Long Day Good Night. I need some live FW!

[nick_z]

Happy 25th anniversary to the masterpiece that is A Pleasant Shade of Gray.  I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for some shows this summer or fall celebrating the album's anniversary, with an encore of songs from Long Day Good Night. I need some live FW!

25 years!!! That doesn't sound possible  Man, I'm getting old...

What a great album. I have a special fondness for the immediate-but-subtly-complex Fates Warning of Parallels and Inside Out, and I remember when APSOG came out it took me a little longer to warm up to it. But that's a record that keeps revealing more and more of itself over time. Brilliant.

[WardySI]

Happy 25th anniversary to the masterpiece that is A Pleasant Shade of Gray.  I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for some shows this summer or fall celebrating the album's anniversary, with an encore of songs from Long Day Good Night. I need some live FW!

25 years!!! That doesn't sound possible  Man, I'm getting old...

What a great album. I have a special fondness for the immediate-but-subtly-complex Fates Warning of Parallels and Inside Out, and I remember when APSOG came out it took me a little longer to warm up to it. But that's a record that keeps revealing more and more of itself over time. Brilliant.

This 100%

And yes, both APSOG and Queensryche's Promised Land fall into this category for me, both albums sound so fresh all these years later and continue to reveal more as the years roll by...

[jammindude]

I had a pre-release in-store play copy a couple of months before it was released.   I was section head of the Music Market at the local Fred Meyer department store.   I played that thing on the overhead so much that some of my coworkers threatened revolution.   Still fights with Disconnected for my favorite FW album.   And really a very shocking comeback.   After Inside Out failed, and Joey and Frank left, I honestly thought Fates was done.    Possibly the biggest and most surprising comeback I've ever known. 

[nick_z]

I had a pre-release in-store play copy a couple of months before it was released.   I was section head of the Music Market at the local Fred Meyer department store.   I played that thing on the overhead so much that some of my coworkers threatened revolution.   Still fights with Disconnected for my favorite FW album.   And really a very shocking comeback.   After Inside Out failed, and Joey and Frank left, I honestly thought Fates was done.    Possibly the biggest and most surprising comeback I've ever known.

Agreed. I LOVED Inside Out (and they were fantastic opening for DT), but it looked like they sort of imploded as a band after it…then came APSOG, and it was quite the (artistic) statement…

[WardySI]

I had a pre-release in-store play copy a couple of months before it was released.   I was section head of the Music Market at the local Fred Meyer department store.   I played that thing on the overhead so much that some of my coworkers threatened revolution.   Still fights with Disconnected for my favorite FW album.   And really a very shocking comeback.   After Inside Out failed, and Joey and Frank left, I honestly thought Fates was done.    Possibly the biggest and most surprising comeback I've ever known.

Hmmm have never considered it a comeback album of sorts but you make a good point.  While I love Inside Out to pieces and think it's unfairly overlooked, its blatant attempt at being another Parallels (personal fave) was its undoing and looking back it's easy to see why they went the route of APSOG...

They weren't quite on my radar when it was first released so missed the line-up changes etc so will take pleasure in listening again with that in mind \m/

[Lethean]

A Pleasant Shade of Gray is my favorite Fates album for sure.  I'd love to see that album in full, whether it's for an anniversary or just whenever they get around to it.

[jammindude]

I had a pre-release in-store play copy a couple of months before it was released.   I was section head of the Music Market at the local Fred Meyer department store.   I played that thing on the overhead so much that some of my coworkers threatened revolution.   Still fights with Disconnected for my favorite FW album.   And really a very shocking comeback.   After Inside Out failed, and Joey and Frank left, I honestly thought Fates was done.    Possibly the biggest and most surprising comeback I've ever known.

Hmmm have never considered it a comeback album of sorts but you make a good point.  While I love Inside Out to pieces and think it's unfairly overlooked, its blatant attempt at being another Parallels (personal fave) was its undoing and looking back it's easy to see why they went the route of APSOG...

They weren't quite on my radar when it was first released so missed the line-up changes etc so will take pleasure in listening again with that in mind \m/

I like inside out OK, but I really think the band sounds tired. And the band photo on the inside didn’t help things. I know they had such high hopes with their first major label release in Parallels, and when they worked and fought so hard to finally get major label exposure and pour their heart into their statement album…and then get no support. I think it just deflated them. And that’s what they look like in the band photo for I/O. Joey especially looks about 10 years older than his photo in Parallels. But all of them just look haggard and worn. And I think the album…while still very good…reflects that spirit. Pale Fire sums up the attitude of the entire album perfectly.

[Grappler]

I remember being on a family vacation at Disney World in 2001/2002 and stopping at a CD store in Downtown Disney.  At the time, I only had No Exit and the greatest hits album.  I bought A Pleasant Shade of Grey and was completely thrown off by the album when I listened to it.  This wasn't my Fates Warning!  I only liked one or two songs and rarely listened to the album for a long, long time.

Years later, I started to get into the album more and can enjoy it for what it is.  It's usually a rainy day album for me, but not one that I reach for when I want to rock out. 

[nick_z]

I like inside out OK, but I really think the band sounds tired. And the band photo on the inside didn’t help things. I know they had such high hopes with their first major label release in Parallels, and when they worked and fought so hard to finally get major label exposure and pour their heart into their statement album…and then get no support. I think it just deflated them. And that’s what they look like in the band photo for I/O. Joey especially looks about 10 years older than his photo in Parallels. But all of them just look haggard and worn. And I think the album…while still very good…reflects that spirit. Pale Fire sums up the attitude of the entire album perfectly.

I totally remember thinking the same thing looking at the band photo in the I/O booklet. I think in part it was also meant to be a different "look" than the slick shoot for Parallels but, yes, Joey didn't look great on that one. I don't have my CDs super-handy, but I found these for comparison:

[RodrigoAltaf]

I really don't get the hate for Inside Out...it's probably my favorite FW album.

[nick_z]

Certainly no hate from me  It's one of my favorite album of theirs too.

I am not getting the impression the album is hated on, btw. It seems to me it's more about the fact it didn't keep the Parallels momentum going (commercially)...

[SoundscapeMN]

it's not bad, it's just a lot of the songs sound the same.

[pg1067]

APSOG is an absolute beast -- especially VIII through XII.  It's one of those albums that, when I listen to it, I end up having it on repeat for days.  XII, in particular, is so subtly complex.  I don't recall being particularly aware of what was happening with the band, so it was a bit of a surprise to see no Frank Aresti (or any second guitarist) and the guy from Armored Saint (a band I never got into) in place of Joe.

As far as Inside Out, I think the biggest complaint (although not from me) is that it was too similar to Parallels.  I LOVE the album, especially Monument.  The only song I'm not particularly fond of is Island in the Stream.

And yeah...Joe looked a bit like Tom Hanks from Cast Away.

[goo-goo]

I prefer the live version of APSOG...Brings more energy and emotion to the table. The studio version leaves me a bit sterile.

[wolfking]

I really don't get the hate for Inside Out...it's probably my favorite FW album.

Probably my second fav after Parallels.  A more than worthy follow up.

[TAC]

I really don't get the hate for Inside Out...it's probably my favorite FW album.

Probably my second fav after Parallels.  A more than worthy follow up.

Those are my two favorites as well. They executed that style with perfection.

[nick_z]

Probably my second fav after Parallels.  A more than worthy follow up.

Those are my two favorites as well. They executed that style with perfection.

+1

Parallels and Inside Out for the win...followed by Perfect Symmetry and APSOG...

[jammindude]

Oh boy. Here we go with rankings.

Please remember that much like I stated in the Iron Maiden thread, Parallels came out at a time when I was in the middle of a deep dive into the most extreme forms of music that were out there. So Fates Warning (whom I had been a fan of since Spectre) going for a more radio friendly direction didn’t sit well with me at first. I warmed up to it later, but Eye to Eye still comes across a bit cheesy to me.

APSOG
Disconnected
Perfect Symmetry 
Theories of Flight
Awaken the Guardian
No Exit
Parallels
The Spectre Within
Inside Out
Darkness in a Different Light
X
Night on Brocken

Not sure where to put the new one yet. Probably somewhere around IO and DIADL.

[TAC]

I'm ashamed that I really couldn't seriously do a proper FW list. I only like 4 or 5 tracks from APSOG. I feel like it's an overblown thing. I appreciate it and respect it, but the constant call backs to certain themes really puts a drag on it.
Plus, while I do really like Disconnected, I feel like it's a glorified EP, and it's two best tracks require serious editing.

I definitely prefer Awaken The Guardian as far as the Arch albums go, but I still can't listen to 3 or 4 John Arch songs in a row before I have to shut it off.

[pg1067]

The top three are set in stone, as are the bottom three (and the gap between the middle group and the bottom 3 is pretty significant).  The middle albums are extremely fluid.  I still haven't wrapped my arms around LDGN sufficiently to include it.

1. A Pleasant Shade of Gray
2. Perfect Symmetry
3. Parallels

4. No Exit
5. Inside Out
6. Darkness in a Different Light
7. Theories of Flight
8. Awake the Guardian
9. The Spectre Within

10. Disconnected
11. FWX
12. Night on Brocken

[WardySI]

Honestly hard to rank them and as most the discussion above relates to the Alder era I'm gonna cheat and disregard the Arch releases because honestly never warmed to those enough until later so NO idea where I'd place them anyways. 

What annoys me with these lists is seeing albums like Disconnected and FWX so low given how great I think they are.  Anyways always subject to change...

1. Parallels
2. Inside Out
3. Theories Of Flight
4. Perfect Symmetry
5. A Pleasant Shade Of Gray
6. Long Day Good Night
7. Darkness In A Different Light
8. Disconnected
9. FWX
10. No Exit

[jammindude]

Laments how under appreciated and low ranked Disconnected is…proceeds to rate it near the bottom of his list.

 

[WardySI]

Laments how under appreciated and low ranked Disconnected is…proceeds to rate it near the bottom of his list.

 

I know right?

But to be fair I was referring to seeing Disconnected so low in my own rankings but still, this stuff kills me sometimes

[Lethean]

APSOG is an absolute beast -- especially VIII through XII.  It's one of those albums that, when I listen to it, I end up having it on repeat for days.  XII, in particular, is so subtly complex.  I don't recall being particularly aware of what was happening with the band, so it was a bit of a surprise to see no Frank Aresti (or any second guitarist) and the guy from Armored Saint (a band I never got into) in place of Joe.

As far as Inside Out, I think the biggest complaint (although not from me) is that it was too similar to Parallels.  I LOVE the album, especially Monument.  The only song I'm not particularly fond of is Island in the Stream.

What, no..... Island in the Stream is sooooo good!

I think Inside Out is a fine album in general; if there is hate for it, it definitely doesn't come from me. 

[nick_z]

What, no..... Island in the Stream is sooooo good!

I think Inside Out is a fine album in general; if there is hate for it, it definitely doesn't come from me.

Agreed  Love Island in the Stream...Ray Alder's singing is sublime, and the combo of the clean electric and acoustic guitars in the verses is so good. Then its unusual structure, the subtle strings and the outro with Zonder's super-tasteful drumming...everything comes together real nice.

Listening again to Inside Out, I find one aspect that was so special about FW in that period (IO but also Parallels) is how they take advantage of the two guitars. It's so clever, the way the distorted riffs and chords weave in and out with the cleans - e.g.  the verses in Face the Fear. Brilliant. I do miss that kind of interplay, in subsequent records, when Aresti left.

[WilliamMunny]

What, no..... Island in the Stream is sooooo good!

I think Inside Out is a fine album in general; if there is hate for it, it definitely doesn't come from me.

Agreed  Love Island in the Stream...Ray Alder's singing is sublime, and the combo of the clean electric and acoustic guitars in the verses is so good. Then its unusual structure, the subtle strings and the outro with Zonder's super-tasteful drumming...everything comes together real nice.

Listening again to Inside Out, I find one aspect that was so special about FW in that period (IO but also Parallels) is how they take advantage of the two guitars. It's so clever, the way the distorted riffs and chords weave in and out with the cleans - e.g.  the verses in Face the Fear. Brilliant. I do miss that kind of interplay, in subsequent records, when Aresti left.

The loss of the interplay was definitely a huge shock the first time I listened APSOG, and even more especially, Disconnected, but I eventually came to appreciate the more (for lack of a better word) minimalist approach Jim took on those records.

To this day, 'Still Remains' is my favorite Fates song, and I think there's something about the 'lack' of everything that makes it a standout track. I mean, it certainly has riffs and movements, but everything is dialed back, and the lyric/vocal is placed front and center. I was in the midst of a massive DT kick when that record came out back in 2000, and I still remember being struck by how 'progressive' it was in a way that was so different from what DT was doing. Different, but equally good.

With all that said, I've always felt that Fates took a path in the early 2000's that Queensryche could've/should've taken. Minus a guitarist (mind you, DeGarmo and Aresti are not the 'same' role, but still), both bands forged ahead, but the quality of said results could not have been more different.

[jammindude]

Disconnected is one of the most beautiful atmospheric albums I’ve ever heard. The crown jewel is obviously Still Remains (my father had Parkinson’s for years and finally fell asleep in death in 2007. Blasting that song and bawling my eyes out was very cathartic at the time) but the song that took much longer to grow on me was Something from Nothing. The build up of tension in that song is off the chart! Sometimes I actually wish the intro went on a bit longer before the vocals kick in. That song is the definition of “moody”