The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[wolfking]

I love Ray's voice, I'd probably insta-buy an Arch/Alder album too.

I think the totally different voices could work quite well together.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

OK, I've had 7 full listens to this now.  After about the 5th full spin, I began waiting for the inevitable "click" that usually happens with a dense album like this but maybe I'm the only one right now but to me this album is a bit of a disappointment to be honest.  I'm going to give it a few more spins to be sure, but I think it's about on par with Darkness In a Different Light.  It's not a bad album, in fact I'd even say it's pretty decent but it comes nowhere even remotely close to Theories of Flight.   3 stars out of 5.

All of this, except I'd put it (and DIADL) slightly higher at 3.5 stars.

It's a good album, but nothing in it is standing out to me as very exciting or memorable.

This hits the nail on the proverbial head for me. It's decent, about on par with DIADL, and nothing more.

[darkshade]

Just jumping in here to state that the band's newest album features art that reminds me of this album.

https://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/ecm-1283.jpg?w=764

for comparison
https://www.metalblade.com/us/covers/FatesWarning-LongDayGoodNight.jpg

[kirksnosehair]

Holy Shit, that's like just a couple of shades off in terms of color, but nearly identical 

[Phoenix87x]

Been listening to the new album a lot this week.

Boy do I love The longest shadow of the day

[Mebert78]

Zonder rips Portnoy: https://blabbermouth.net/news/mark-zonder-praises-bobby-jarzombek-says-mike-portnoy-butchered-fates-warning-songs/

[WilliamMunny]

Zonder rips Portnoy: https://blabbermouth.net/news/mark-zonder-praises-bobby-jarzombek-says-mike-portnoy-butchered-fates-warning-songs/

Zonder's not wrong, but to be fair, I don't think MP had months to rehears either...the guy was 'stepping in' for a sidelined comrade.

[emtee]

Everyone at their level has a certain style. It can be difficult to totally mimic someone else. MP stepped in on very short notice. I'd like to see Zonder step in on short notice and play a DT set. Butchering would visible.
Also, so much for the brotherhood of drummers. I love Mark's playing but with these comments, he lowered himself in my opinion. Kind of classless.

[MinistroRaven]

[wolfking]

Reading the article, there seems to be some beef there.  Zonder does slam Portnoy but Portnoy was a late call up so you can't blame him if he didn't play the songs the same.

Portnoy always loses his credibility though by having the last words.  He would have looked like the bigger man if he shutup here, yet again.

[TAC]

There must be some background.

[Mebert78]

Looks like MP called Zonder a bitter jealous old man in a follow-up response on Twitter.

[wolfking]

There must be some background.

Got to be.  Wonder was quite brutal in that article actually.

[wolfking]

Looks like MP called Zonder a bitter jealous old man in a follow-up response on Twitter.

 

[Phoenix87x]

So what's the deal with Zonder anyway. Was he not asked to come back for Darkness in a different light?

[MinistroRaven]

Looks like MP called Zonder a bitter jealous old man in a follow-up response on Twitter.

[RodrigoAltaf]

So what's the deal with Zonder anyway. Was he not asked to come back for Darkness in a different light?

I interviewed Ray Alder when their live album came out in 2018, and he said Mark doesn't like touring, and that's why he left.

[gzarruk]

Seems like MP got the MM treatment (people complaining about him not playing other drummer's parts differently)

I'm with MP on this one, Zonder does sound bitter. Mike had a one off fill-in gig between all his regular stuff. Sure he could've played things a bit more exactly, but he didn't butcher anything. He did worse with Derek's Atlantis Pt. 1 for the PSMS thing, and that was for a full tour

[devieira73]

There must be some background.

Maybe that?(from the same article)
 “Mark responded: "I definitely appreciate that, even though [former DREAM THEATER drummer Mike] Portnoy used to call it robotic, but okay, whatever...”
That surprised me. I thought Portnoy was a fan of Mark’s playing. Maybe a misunderstanding?

[goo-goo]

So what's the deal with Zonder anyway. Was he not asked to come back for Darkness in a different light?

I interviewed Ray Alder when their live album came out in 2018, and he said Mark doesn't like touring, and that's why he left.

Well, that's not the whole part of the story. Mark didn't like the touring being so inconsistent. It doesn't mean he didn't like the touring.  I mean, they did stop gigging for a a few years when FWX got released. And Mark was also ramping up his rehearsal studio and recording business. 

Regarding MP's part, I enjoyed them for what it was. He is right on that twitter respond where he says that he did know the parts, he just interprets them a bit differently. I ripped the audio from the Live in Athens DVD and he doesn't sound bad at all on the bonus tracks (Main gig was with NDV on drums). In fact, the songs sound a bit more energetic (Another Perfect Day and Eleventh Hour) with MP on them.

[Madman Shepherd]

Hey guys, for Christmas I decided to write one of Mike Portnoy's press releases for him. Too bad it's a bit late but here it is:

Not sure why Mark Zonder felt the need to call me out for "butchering" his drum parts when I filled in for one Fates Warning show in Brazil. I had very little time to learn them, so they weren't exactly what Mark played, but I was proud of my performance as were Jim, Ray, Frank, and Joey. The fans loved it too and that's what matters the most. 

I had a busy week that week of April 14th 2012. Started the week recording Bigelf’s entire ITM album, then flew to TX for a gig with AMOB, back to LA for Metal Masters 3 w Kerry King, Phil Anselmo, Scott Ian, Frank Bello, David Ellefson, Dave Lombardo and Charlie Benante and then straight onto an airplane to Brazil to end the week w Fates Warning.

I put 100% of myself into each and every band I played with that exhausting week but as with anything, there are bound to be some detractors. Regardless of Mark's opinion of me, my opinion of him remains unchanged: He's an amazing drummer that played an important role in the legacy of Fates Warning. I had some big shoes to fill but it turned out great. I wish Mark nothing but the best.

[LudwigVan]

Bickering aside, I think Zonder's a great drummer, but I'm glad that Jarzombek stepped in.  He breathes new life into FW.

[Ben_Jamin]

Blabbermouth once again creates drama...

Zonder, was only comparing Jarzombek playing style and why he thinks he's the best drummer for Fates, to Portnoy (a hired gun, that didn't take the time to learn drum parts). It seems if MP stepped up he would've learned the drum parts. As Zonder likely feels his drum parts are compositions, well thought out Drum Parts that are akin to a composed guitar solo. So, Zonder felt like Portnoy just didn't have the time to learn his drum parts.

It's cool that Mike stepped up. But, it's the problem of him always constantly doing things, that he doesn't have the time to learn composed parts, even his own. And that shows.

I just find it funny how two separate opinions got misconstrued. And Blabbermouth is the culprit. Not Portnoy or Zonder.

[wolfking]

Blabbermouth once again creates drama...

Zonder, was only comparing Jarzombek playing style and why he thinks he's the best drummer for Fates, to Portnoy (a hired gun, that didn't take the time to learn drum parts). It seems if MP stepped up he would've learned the drum parts. As Zonder likely feels his drum parts are compositions, well thought out Drum Parts that are akin to a composed guitar solo. So, Zonder felt like Portnoy just didn't have the time to learn his drum parts.

It's cool that Mike stepped up. But, it's the problem of him always constantly doing things, that he doesn't have the time to learn composed parts, even his own. And that shows.

I just find it funny how two separate opinions got misconstrued. And Blabbermouth is the culprit. Not Portnoy or Zonder.

I didn't get that from the article.  Zonder slams Mike pretty hard.  Maybe I'm wrong.

[kirksnosehair]

Everyone at their level has a certain style. It can be difficult to totally mimic someone else. MP stepped in on very short notice. I'd like to see Zonder step in on short notice and play a DT set. Butchering would visible.
Also, so much for the brotherhood of drummers. I love Mark's playing but with these comments, he lowered himself in my opinion. Kind of classless.

Yeah, I agree.  Zonder comes across as a dick in this situation.  Sounds like there may be some envy/jealousy there too

[kirksnosehair]

Blabbermouth once again creates drama...

Zonder, was only comparing Jarzombek playing style and why he thinks he's the best drummer for Fates, to Portnoy (a hired gun, that didn't take the time to learn drum parts). It seems if MP stepped up he would've learned the drum parts. As Zonder likely feels his drum parts are compositions, well thought out Drum Parts that are akin to a composed guitar solo. So, Zonder felt like Portnoy just didn't have the time to learn his drum parts.

It's cool that Mike stepped up. But, it's the problem of him always constantly doing things, that he doesn't have the time to learn composed parts, even his own. And that shows.

I just find it funny how two separate opinions got misconstrued. And Blabbermouth is the culprit. Not Portnoy or Zonder.

Mike stretches himself too thin sometimes, for sure, but this was a last-minute kind of thing.  It's not that he didn't "take the time" it's that he didn't have the time to take.  Because it was a last-minute thing.


When Mark Zonder can step in with less than a week of notice and play Metropolis Part 1 and The Dance of Eternity exactly as they sound on the record, then he can talk shit about how Portnoy butchered Fates Warning songs.  In the absence of that perfect performance, he should probably shut his fucking pie hole.

[gzarruk]

Blabbermouth once again creates drama...

Zonder, was only comparing Jarzombek playing style and why he thinks he's the best drummer for Fates, to Portnoy (a hired gun, that didn't take the time to learn drum parts). It seems if MP stepped up he would've learned the drum parts. As Zonder likely feels his drum parts are compositions, well thought out Drum Parts that are akin to a composed guitar solo. So, Zonder felt like Portnoy just didn't have the time to learn his drum parts.

It's cool that Mike stepped up. But, it's the problem of him always constantly doing things, that he doesn't have the time to learn composed parts, even his own. And that shows.

I just find it funny how two separate opinions got misconstrued. And Blabbermouth is the culprit. Not Portnoy or Zonder.

It's not that simple, Zonder was comparing Bobby (full time FW drummer) with Mike (one off show), and that's just unreal. If Portnoy did a full tour with Fates and didn't put the time or effort to properly learn the parts, then his criticisms would be valid, but that's not the case.

Also, he was also talking about NDV indirectly, but decided to focus on MP because apparently he thinks Zonder's drumming is "robotic".

Btw, I do think Bobby is a better drummer than Mike, but that's another story

[Dedalus]

Seems like MP got the MM treatment (people complaining about him not playing other drummer's parts differently)

 

And it is curious that the people who give this treatment to MM, say that it is unfair when it comes to MP. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Blabbermouth once again creates drama...

Zonder, was only comparing Jarzombek playing style and why he thinks he's the best drummer for Fates, to Portnoy (a hired gun, that didn't take the time to learn drum parts). It seems if MP stepped up he would've learned the drum parts. As Zonder likely feels his drum parts are compositions, well thought out Drum Parts that are akin to a composed guitar solo. So, Zonder felt like Portnoy just didn't have the time to learn his drum parts.

It's cool that Mike stepped up. But, it's the problem of him always constantly doing things, that he doesn't have the time to learn composed parts, even his own. And that shows.

I just find it funny how two separate opinions got misconstrued. And Blabbermouth is the culprit. Not Portnoy or Zonder.

It's not that simple, Zonder was comparing Bobby (full time FW drummer) with Mike (one off show), and that's just unreal. If Portnoy did a full tour with Fates and didn't put the time or effort to properly learn the parts, then his criticisms would be valid, but that's not the case.

Also, he was also talking about NDV indirectly, but decided to focus on MP because apparently he thinks Zonder's drumming is "robotic".

Btw, I do think Bobby is a better drummer than Mike, but that's another story

Yeah, you put it more clearly.

In the end, it's just Blabbermouth doing it's usual, start up drama bullshit. The interview is 30 min. long and they chose to just focus on that part out of what he talked about.

I'm more interested in him saying he started using the electronics like the Clicks, Sequencers, and those before Neal Peart did. 

He does talk about some good interesting stuff about himself and his style of drumming that I find pretty fascinating. I didn't know he sold his drumkit and started using pads, and learned clicks, and sequencers. Also, after the Portnoy rebuttle (Portnoy said Zonder's style is robotic, and he took it as a jab, so is jabbing back at Portnoy), he talks about some cool things about what he would play when a guitar is playing 32nd notes, he'd play something simple while most would do double bass which would sound messy sonically. While playing simple will allow the sonics to open it up more.

[Mebert78]

Looks like Portnoy and Zonder has a little exchange yesterday on a thread posted on MZ's Facebook page:

Portnoy: Hey Mark Zonder
Real classy comment!
I had a busy week that week of April 14th 2012:
Started the week recording Bigelf’s entire ITM album, then flew to TX for a gig with Adrenaline Mob, flew back to LA for my gig with Metal Masters w Kerry King, Phil Anselmo, Scott Ian, Frank Bello, David Ellefson, Dave Lombardo and Charlie Benante and then straight onto an airplane to Brazil to end the week playing w Fates Warning...
Sorry if I didn’t have time to learn all of your drum parts perfectly for a one-off fill in gig! 🙄
Really Lame...you come off like a jealous grumpy old man...

Zonder: I do love the fact the grumpy old man comes up. So much for can’t we all get along. Making fun of old people, guess that is cool. Btw nice excuse.

Portnoy: You publicly say in an interview I “butchered” the songs, yet you’re offended I call you a jealous grumpy old man in response???
Jim, Ray, Frank and Joey were all VERY happy (and appreciative) with the job I did on very short notice and in the middle of my hectic schedule at the time...(playing w 4 other bands THAT WEEK!)
And btw, Bobby Jarzombek is a full time member IN THE BAND...of course he’s gonna learn the parts more precisely! I was helping my FW friends out and they never expected (or even wanted) me to learn your parts...I was there to “serve the song” as best as I could and that’s what I did...
Whatever man...
I thought we were friends...
Obviously not...
Later dude...you’re making yourselves look foolish

[Mebert78]

Also, in separate comments, Zonder added:

The interviewer asked me a question. I am not a "I love everybody, everybody sounds great" kind of guy. I call it the way I see it. Been on the other end many times. I did not get personal and was talking about the actual playing. No one yet has said, "oh he nailed it". I have heard excuses but let's just call it what it is. It was all about Bobby in comparison to the others. Take a step back and think about how much shit has been talked over the years. Did you take offense to that as well?

He did not have to take the gig. If you are going to take the gig, you need to do it 100%. When I played with Graham Bonnet and we did Rainbow songs I studied Cozy Powell's parts. I could have winged it and been fine. But to honor the band, the drummer and the song, I learned it note for note. I thought that is the way you are supposed to approach these things. If I went to see one of my favorite bands and the guys were not playing the parts correctly I would be disappointed. Remember I was asked a question by the interviewer and I answered honestly. It would have been disrespectful to Bobby if I said everyone did a great job. Honesty is not always fun, but time to put the big boy pants on. I have not heard one person say "he nailed it". So I am being truthful and that upsets people, well sorry. Remember who you are talking about when you mention taking it and dishing it out.

[Ben_Jamin]

Also, in separate comments, Zonder added:

The interviewer asked me a question. I am not a "I love everybody, everybody sounds great" kind of guy. I call it the way I see it. Been on the other end many times. I did not get personal and was talking about the actual playing. No one yet has said, "oh he nailed it". I have heard excuses but let's just call it what it is. It was all about Bobby in comparison to the others. Take a step back and think about how much shit has been talked over the years. Did you take offense to that as well?

He did not have to take the gig. If you are going to take the gig, you need to do it 100%. When I played with Graham Bonnet and we did Rainbow songs I studied Cozy Powell's parts. I could have winged it and been fine. But to honor the band, the drummer and the song, I learned it note for note. I thought that is the way you are supposed to approach these things. If I went to see one of my favorite bands and the guys were not playing the parts correctly I would be disappointed. Remember I was asked a question by the interviewer and I answered honestly. It would have been disrespectful to Bobby if I said everyone did a great job. Honesty is not always fun, but time to put the big boy pants on. I have not heard one person say "he nailed it". So I am being truthful and that upsets people, well sorry. Remember who you are talking about when you mention taking it and dishing it out.

Thanks Zonder for helping clarify my point I made:

Zonder, was only comparing Jarzombek playing style and why he thinks he's the best drummer for Fates, to Portnoy (a hired gun, that didn't take the time to learn drum parts). It seems if MP stepped up he would've learned the drum parts. As Zonder likely feels his drum parts are compositions, well thought out Drum Parts that are akin to a composed guitar solo. So, Zonder felt like Portnoy just didn't have the time to learn his drum parts.

It's cool that Mike stepped up. But, it's the problem of him always constantly doing things, that he doesn't have the time to learn composed parts, even his own. And that shows.

[Kwyjibo]

This Zonder guy should play more drums and talk less, could be better for all.

[Ben_Jamin]

This Zonder guy should play more drums and talk less, could be better for all.

 

Can't help it when an interviewer asks a guy who is a "Tell it like it is" type of person a question.

I don't blame Zonder nor Portnoy. I blame Blabbermouth. They chose to focus on this aspect of his interview instead of the other more interesting discussions he was having with that interviewer. Just by picking out this section, they have cause drama between Portnoy and Zonder. Zonder fired back because Portnoy called his style and way he does his drumming compositions "Robotic", he took offense to that as it is a lot of work he actually does. SO Zonder, dished that back at Portnoy, by saying he doesn't take the time to learn drum parts written by the drummer. And MP admitted that he doesn't.

I do not mind MP's interpretation of the Fates Warning songs at all. But Zonder, being the one whom composed the drums, just felt MP wasn't as committed to learning his drum parts. And gave his reasoning why he feels that way.

Basically, it's 2 vastly different approaches to learning and playing another persons drum parts. Zonder, when he takes a drumming gig, learns everything to know about the composition of the songs he has to learn. MP, being MP and constantly on the go, just doesn't have the time to do that, so he gets the basic structure of the songs, and then rehearses parts with the band, and makes stuff that would still sound good with the song, but it isn't there drum parts.

[Kwyjibo]

A lot of those "tell it like it is" guys are just plain insulting. That's not honest, that's just them being a dick.

Not saying that this applies here, but Zonder could have worded it better and his response/excuse is just lame.