The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[jingle.boy]

I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit after being head over heels for Theories.

Same. Like, no way they could beat Theories of Flight, right? Except, what if they could? 

My thoughts exactly. I'm mostly curious how Ray will sound on this one, because while he was alright on DiaDL and Redemption's The Art of Loss, he was beyond terrific on Theories.

Both DiaDL and AoL did nothing for me - musically and vocally.  Maybe I need to revisit them each, but upon release, nothing clicked for me from either.

[Evermind]

As I said before, I really like AoL. It aged really well and it's one of my favourite Redemption albums now.

DiaDL I don't really care about. My favourite song from it is Falling.

[MoraWintersoul]

DiaDL I don't really care about. My favourite song from it is Falling.

I really don't care for that album either. It was the first album they published after I'd become a fan, and the disappointment was there.

[goo-goo]

DiaDL I don't really care about. My favourite song from it is Falling.

I really don't care for that album either. It was the first album they published after I'd become a fan, and the disappointment was there.

These two comments made me revisit this album in my morning commute to work. Blasphemy! It's a solid album, not their greatest but a solid comeback record after a few years without releasing anything. Falling Further (bonus song) is a great nod to the Parallels era. And Yet It Moves and O chloroform (Kevin Moore wrote lyrics) are stunning pieces of music and the highlights of this album for me. One Thousand Fires and Firefly are a great 1-2 opening combo.

If you guys have access to the 2nd disc, please do the playlist like the one below. Falling (the short version) is an album killer for me (not sure what the purpose was) but it works as a great intro to Falling Further. The middle section of Firefly (extended) is kick ass too. This playlist makes, at least for me, a much more enjoyable album.

-One Thousand
-Firefly (Extended)
-Desire
-Falling
-Falling Further
-I Am
-Lighthouse
-Into the Black
-Kneel and Obey
-O chloroform
-And yet it moves

[Lethean]

I really like Darkness in a Different Light.  Not as much as Theories of Flight, but I think it's a great album.  One Thousand Fires is indeed a great opener.  I remember they opened some shows with it too and it really set the tone for a great show.

[Mister Gold]

I still like Darkness in a Different Light a lot, it was a solid comeback album. But I think it does feel like the band was sort of... half-awake? Compare it to Arch-Matheos' Sympathetic Resonance before it and Theories of Flight after, and you hear two albums that have the band ON FIRE. It's a more than capable entry to the catalogue on its own right, it's just unfortunately bookended by two of the best Fate-related albums to come out ever.

I hope Michael does get a couple more solo spots, but I hope Frank still does a couple of guest solos too.  Frank's guitar playing is still an important part to Fates Warning IMO and I hope he still has at least a couple of solos.

I'm not at all worried about Frank not getting a couple of guest solos. I think he'll always have some solos to contribute to a new Fates album.

My point is more to do with Michael getting to contribute to the band more musically along with solos. Michael did a terrific job writing music for Ray's solo album last year and his own original instrumental work has been really intriguing too. I think there's a ton of potential for Michael to be able to help contribute to the band as a songwriter alongside Jim and everyone else.

My thoughts exactly. I'm mostly curious how Ray will sound on this one, because while he was alright on DiaDL and Redemption's The Art of Loss, he was beyond terrific on Theories.

He sounded like fifteen years were taken off his voice, it was insane. Interviewers asked about it even! If he's back to "normal" I don't mind, but I hope he connects to the material in the same way as he did on Theories.

Honestly, I'm not too worried about Ray for the album. He's been on a hot streak since Theories, with his epic performances on Live Over Europe in 2018 and his solo album late last year. I think he's finally figured out how best to use his older, weathered vocal range after having to get a feel for it out a bit on DiADL/AOL.

I'm more just curious to see where the hell the band goes next musically, because it does seem likely they'll veer into a different direction with this album. Because as much as we've talked about Theories of Flight and DiADL being heavier albums, I remember Ray talking a lot about how they wrote those albums to be more melodic akin to Parallels.

So what, do they try to do something similar to A Pleasant Shade of Gray or Disconnected again?

[goo-goo]

I still like Darkness in a Different Light a lot, it was a solid comeback album. But I think it does feel like the band was sort of... half-awake? Compare it to Arch-Matheos' Sympathetic Resonance before it and Theories of Flight after, and you hear two albums that have the band ON FIRE. It's a more than capable entry to the catalogue on its own right, it's just unfortunately bookended by two of the best Fate-related albums to come out ever.

If IIRC, Sympathetic Resonance was originally going to be a Fates Warning album but Ray didn't like the music (or wasn't feeling it, I believe that's what Ray said). So Jim used the music for the Arch/Matheos project. That's why Darkness feels a bit "off" from the style of Sympathetic Resonance , but Theories, stylistically is very similar to SA (except for the shorter songs).

[pg1067]

I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit after being head over heels for Theories.

Same. Like, no way they could beat Theories of Flight, right? Except, what if they could? 

I know I'm in the minority, but I thought TOF was a couple steps down from DIADL.  I Am, Falling Further, Into the Black and An Yet It Moves are some of the best songs FW has ever done.

[Mister Gold]

I still like Darkness in a Different Light a lot, it was a solid comeback album. But I think it does feel like the band was sort of... half-awake? Compare it to Arch-Matheos' Sympathetic Resonance before it and Theories of Flight after, and you hear two albums that have the band ON FIRE. It's a more than capable entry to the catalogue on its own right, it's just unfortunately bookended by two of the best Fate-related albums to come out ever.

If IIRC, Sympathetic Resonance was originally going to be a Fates Warning album but Ray didn't like the music (or wasn't feeling it, I believe that's what Ray said). So Jim used the music for the Arch/Matheos project. That's why Darkness feels a bit "off" from the style of Sympathetic Resonance , but Theories, stylistically is very similar to SA (except for the shorter songs).

It's not really style for me. I'd say all three are pretty similar overall, even if SR is very much populated by longer epics. I just think the band doesn't sound quite as alive on Darkness as they do on SR or Theories. Might have something to do with Darkness' production. It's not a bad sounding album, but it's a bit of a step down from either of the other two albums.

[goo-goo]

It's not really style for me. I'd say all three are pretty similar overall, even if SR is very much populated by longer epics. I just think the band doesn't sound quite as alive on Darkness as they do on SR or Theories. Might have something to do with Darkness' production. It's not a bad sounding album, but it's a bit of a step down from either of the other two albums.

Darkness sounds a bit dirtier, grungier, and raw to my ears. Not the music, but the sound itself. That's why I like Darkness. Now Theories, I like the heavyness, the memorable choruses, etc. It's almost a perfect album.

[Mister Gold]

It's not really style for me. I'd say all three are pretty similar overall, even if SR is very much populated by longer epics. I just think the band doesn't sound quite as alive on Darkness as they do on SR or Theories. Might have something to do with Darkness' production. It's not a bad sounding album, but it's a bit of a step down from either of the other two albums.

Darkness sounds a bit dirtier, grungier, and raw to my ears. Not the music, but the sound itself. That's why I like Darkness. Now Theories, I like the heavyness, the memorable choruses, etc. It's almost a perfect album.

Yeah, I struggle to think of much of any particularly notable criticisms towards Theories. That album was astonishingly great from start to finish IMO.

Darkness, I dunno if I'd describe the production as "grungier." Muddier, for sure. I typically prefer listening to the Live over Europe variants of Firefly and And Yet It Moves personally.

[Samsara]

Interesting thoughts on Darkness in a Different Light.

I don't recall Ray or Jim saying Sympathetic Resonance was going to be a Fates record. I think I remember a couple of SONGS were supposed to be Fates songs, but Ray wasn't connecting with them. I think that's a big difference. But again, I could be wrong. I just remember that, that way.

For me, aside from a few songs, Darkness hasn't aged particularly well. I think "One Thousand Fires" and "Firefly" are incredible songs -- but the extended version of the latter. In addition, I really dug "Falling Further" and think the band made a mistake just doing a short acoustic version of it as "Falling" on the album proper. In fact, in iTunes, I have deleted the album cuts of Firefly and Falling, and replaced them with the original versions of each (extended, and full electric, respectively) and it sits much better for me.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE "And Yet it Moves," but I have to say, if you made me pick two songs from the DIADL sessions to represent the album, I'm going with "One Thousand Fires" and "Firefly" (extended) easily.

A couple of tours ago, Fates' first run in support of Theories (right before they went to Europe to record the live record), I was at soundcheck, and it was an incredible treat to see "And Yet it Moves" being done. Ray was funny -- he had to pull up the lyrics on his phone.  It was such a treat to see that tune performed before they actually did it for "real" in Europe. I recorded it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=203YJniZDXY

Regarding the "grungy" comment -- I don't hear that. But I will say I really like Jens Bogren's mix on Theories. I hope they use him again (he did the live record too).

Really excited for new Fates. I found Theories of Flight to be an absolute gem on first listen, and it hasn't changed. I always say this album is sort of the record that took every element of what Fates has done in the past, put it in a blender, and presented it in a new, fresh way. And that is meant as a complete compliment. I don't hear any huge risks or departures for Fates on it, but instead they honed in on what they do best, and delivered what I consider one of their finest albums.

[Mister Gold]

Interesting thoughts on Darkness in a Different Light.

I don't recall Ray or Jim saying Sympathetic Resonance was going to be a Fates record. I think I remember a couple of SONGS were supposed to be Fates songs, but Ray wasn't connecting with them. I think that's a big difference. But again, I could be wrong. I just remember that, that way.

If memory serves me right, Jim wrote two of the big epics on SR and showed them to Ray with the intent for them to be the starting point of the new Fates album, but Ray wasn't clicking with the songs. So Jim took the songs to John and that wound up snowballing into the rest of SR happening. So basically I'd wager that had Ray clicked with the songs, the overall musical direction of that Fates album would've still been very akin to what we got with Sympathetic Resonance.

For me, aside from a few songs, Darkness hasn't aged particularly well. I think "One Thousand Fires" and "Firefly" are incredible songs -- but the extended version of the latter. In addition, I really dug "Falling Further" and think the band made a mistake just doing a short acoustic version of it as "Falling" on the album proper. In fact, in iTunes, I have deleted the album cuts of Firefly and Falling, and replaced them with the original versions of each (extended, and full electric, respectively) and it sits much better for me.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE "And Yet it Moves," but I have to say, if you made me pick two songs from the DIADL sessions to represent the album, I'm going with "One Thousand Fires" and "Firefly" (extended) easily.

Actually I can't listen to the original cuts of Firefly on DIADL. I always go to either the acoustic version on Theories or the version on Live Over Europe. Ray's voice just wasn't as strong on the original versions of Firefly as it's been from 2016 onward, so Firefly is actually one of the weaker songs off of DIADL for me.

I'd say the highlights on DIADL are One Thousand Fires, Into the Black and Falling Further.   

Regarding the "grungy" comment -- I don't hear that. But I will say I really like Jens Bogren's mix on Theories. I hope they use him again (he did the live record too).

Really excited for new Fates. I found Theories of Flight to be an absolute gem on first listen, and it hasn't changed. I always say this album is sort of the record that took every element of what Fates has done in the past, put it in a blender, and presented it in a new, fresh way. And that is meant as a complete compliment. I don't hear any huge risks or departures for Fates on it, but instead they honed in on what they do best, and delivered what I consider one of their finest albums.

Yeah, I'd either want Jens Bogren or whoever mixed Ray's solo album to mix the new album. Theories, Live Over Europe and What The Water Wants all sound terrific mix wise IMO.

And I agree. At this point, Theories of Flight is easily one of the best starting points to get into the band IMO. Especially for a younger listener that's maybe not as used to the sound of those older 80's/90's albums. Theories is a perfect 'modern' Fates album, both musically and sonically.

[ProfessorPeart]

I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit after being head over heels for Theories.

Same. Like, no way they could beat Theories of Flight, right? Except, what if they could? 

I know I'm in the minority, but I thought TOF was a couple steps down from DIADL.  I Am, Falling Further, Into the Black and An Yet It Moves are some of the best songs FW has ever done.

I'm with you. I LOVE Darkness. I was disappointed by Theories. Darkness just grabbed me and held on for some time. Theories didn't grab me at all.

As for manipulating the tracklist, I did that as well. With Falling and Falling Further, I ripped them as WAV files and used software to merge them into one seamless track. I also replaced Firefly with the extended version.

[Cintus Supremus]

Ironically the chorus, or at least the second half of it, is a huge part of what makes me adore TLASOT so much. It's one of Ray's most inspired vocal melodies ever IMO. The whole song is masterful though.

I agree completely. The chorus for The Light and Shade of Things is the single most satisfying Ray performance on the entire record. His vocals are excellent and the melody is strong and confident throughout.

[emtee]

Darkness is an amazing record. Truthfully, all of theirs are amazing. I even love FWX. It was fun seeing them with DT  and QR supporting FWX and Nick D'Virglio was behind the kit. I yelled "Hey Nick!" when he took the stage and he acted surprised anybody even knew him. That was a dream bill.

[Mister Gold]

I agree completely. The chorus for The Light and Shade of Things is the single most satisfying Ray performance on the entire record. His vocals are excellent and the melody is strong and confident throughout.

Yeah. It does seem like Ray struggles a bit in doing that part of the song live, but on the original studio version? Genuinely one of my favorite vocal melodies ever.

Darkness is an amazing record. Truthfully, all of theirs are amazing. I even love FWX. It was fun seeing them with DT  and QR supporting FWX and Nick D'Virglio was behind the kit. I yelled "Hey Nick!" when he took the stage and he acted surprised anybody even knew him. That was a dream bill.

Honestly I think Fates Warning have easily been one of the most consistent bands in metal history. Aside from Night on Brocken, there's not a Fates album out there that I don't like or outright love at this point. Some are a wee bit weaker than others (i.e. Darkness, FWX), but even most of their 'weaker' albums are better than a lot of other bands' best albums.

It's the biggest difference to me that Fates have over Dream Theater and Queensryche. Fates Warning never hit the same commercial successes or were as consistent in putting albums out on a regular basis, but they've never had the same obvious creative lulls or missteps as their contemporaries.

I'm with you. I LOVE Darkness. I was disappointed by Theories. Darkness just grabbed me and held on for some time. Theories didn't grab me at all.

As for manipulating the tracklist, I did that as well. With Falling and Falling Further, I ripped them as WAV files and used software to merge them into one seamless track. I also replaced Firefly with the extended version.

See, while I respect your opinion and absolutely understand that music is subjective, I have no clue how someone would go from adoring Darkness and then walking away from Theories disappointed. I can maybe get closer to understanding someone preferring Darkness over Theories... but they're very similar albums musically? Theories just happens to sound more polished and absolutely has the superior vocal performance from Ray over Darkness though.

I hope I'm not being rude here! I genuinely would love to have a better understanding why Theories didn't gel with you the same way Darkness did.

[SoundscapeMN]

I still and probably always will contend of the more song-oriented releases they've put out from the last couple decades

FWX works
Darkness does not work nearly as well.

some people enjoy Darkness, but I don't understand where and what happened to the love for FWX? when it came out, a lot of fans LOVED it like myself. Many even found it better than Disconnected and/or APSOG. I remember some comments saying it was their best album since Inside Out and/or Parallels.

But now? it seems to be the forgotten record. I think it's filled with good songs, much like Parallels or Perfect Symmetry in some ways.

[Lethean]

FWX is one of my favorite Fates records.  I love that album.

[goo-goo]

I love FWX! The Wish guitar solo is a classic for me and an all-time favorite of mine.

Maybe my "grungier" description was not accurate. It just sounds more raw, aggressive, but I guess they did play songs a bit down tuned. Maybe that's why for me it sounds like that.

[jammindude]

I still and probably always will contend of the more song-oriented releases they've put out from the last couple decades

FWX works
Darkness does not work nearly as well.

some people enjoy Darkness, but I don't understand where and what happened to the love for FWX? when it came out, a lot of fans LOVED it like myself. Many even found it better than Disconnected and/or APSOG. I remember some comments saying it was their best album since Inside Out and/or Parallels.

But now? it seems to be the forgotten record. I think it's filled with good songs, much like Parallels or Perfect Symmetry in some ways.

I never saw that at all.   FWX has a few people that swear by it, but most of the feedback that I saw was similar to mine.....meh.   

Left Here is amazing, and there are 3-4 other really good songs, but it's a pretty lifeless record.    I actually would compare it with I/O in that it's firmly in the "good but not great" category.   Not bad.  Decent.  OK.  Those are the descriptors I use for albums like FWX, I/O, and even DiaDL for that matter.     A few spectacular moments, and then a handful of OK stuff and then one or two duds. 

Maybe it's time for a new ranking.

1. Disconnected
2. A Pleasant Shade of Gray
3. Theories of Flight
4. Perfect Symmetry
5. Awaken the Guardian
6. Parallels
7. No Exit
8. The Spectre Within


9. Darkness in a Different Light
10. FWX
11. Inside Out







12. Night on Brocken



And I actually still kinda like Night on Brocken, but I don't pull it out very often.  I just played it a lot back when the Arch albums were the only three they had.   I still remember reading the news that Arch was gone and thinking there was no way they were ever going to be able to replace him.   Then No Exit came out.  It was one of the first CDs I ever bought.  I was really blown away at first.  The only reason it slid down the list a bit is because it hasn't aged as well as some of the others.   But the top 8 albums are all fantastic, and other than a couple of hiccups, they are almost perfect albums.    9-11 were almost random.  I honestly had an extremely difficult time trying to figure out what order to put them in.  They are good, and I do spin them once in awhile, but they are "also ran" albums.    NoB is a bunch of kids trying to imitate Iron Maiden and doing a passing job of it, but it's admittedly a very flawed record.   But Damnation, Kiss of Death, Misfit, and Soldier Boy are decent songs.  And if you put the record on, you'll probably find me headbanging to the rest of it too. 

[pg1067]

some people enjoy Darkness, but I don't understand where and what happened to the love for FWX? when it came out, a lot of fans LOVED it like myself. Many even found it better than Disconnected and/or APSOG. I remember some comments saying it was their best album since Inside Out and/or Parallels.

But now? it seems to be the forgotten record. I think it's filled with good songs, much like Parallels or Perfect Symmetry in some ways.

I've never heard anyone express strong, positive feelings for FWX.  When I first got it, nothing at all grabbed me, and it was mostly forgotten until they performed Another Perfect Day on the DIADL tour.  The rest of the album is bland AF and ranks second only to Brocken at the bottom of my FW album ranking.

DIADL, on the other hand, has one epic song (AYIM), three great songs (Further, I Am and Black) and a bunch of good to very good songs.  There's nothing on TOF that even comes close to AYIM, and I probably prefer it to any individual piece on APSOG.

[Mister Gold]

I still and probably always will contend of the more song-oriented releases they've put out from the last couple decades

FWX works
Darkness does not work nearly as well.

some people enjoy Darkness, but I don't understand where and what happened to the love for FWX? when it came out, a lot of fans LOVED it like myself. Many even found it better than Disconnected and/or APSOG. I remember some comments saying it was their best album since Inside Out and/or Parallels.

But now? it seems to be the forgotten record. I think it's filled with good songs, much like Parallels or Perfect Symmetry in some ways.

I never saw that at all.   FWX has a few people that swear by it, but most of the feedback that I saw was similar to mine.....meh.   

Left Here is amazing, and there are 3-4 other really good songs, but it's a pretty lifeless record.    I actually would compare it with I/O in that it's firmly in the "good but not great" category.   Not bad.  Decent.  OK.  Those are the descriptors I use for albums like FWX, I/O, and even DiaDL for that matter.     A few spectacular moments, and then a handful of OK stuff and then one or two duds. 

Maybe it's time for a new ranking.

1. Disconnected
2. A Pleasant Shade of Gray
3. Theories of Flight
4. Perfect Symmetry
5. Awaken the Guardian
6. Parallels
7. No Exit
8. The Spectre Within


9. Darkness in a Different Light
10. FWX
11. Inside Out







12. Night on Brocken



And I actually still kinda like Night on Brocken, but I don't pull it out very often.  I just played it a lot back when the Arch albums were the only three they had.   I still remember reading the news that Arch was gone and thinking there was no way they were ever going to be able to replace him.   Then No Exit came out.  It was one of the first CDs I ever bought.  I was really blown away at first.  The only reason it slid down the list a bit is because it hasn't aged as well as some of the others.   But the top 8 albums are all fantastic, and other than a couple of hiccups, they are almost perfect albums.    9-11 were almost random.  I honestly had an extremely difficult time trying to figure out what order to put them in.  They are good, and I do spin them once in awhile, but they are "also ran" albums.    NoB is a bunch of kids trying to imitate Iron Maiden and doing a passing job of it, but it's admittedly a very flawed record.   But Damnation, Kiss of Death, Misfit, and Soldier Boy are decent songs.  And if you put the record on, you'll probably find me headbanging to the rest of it too.

Honestly I don't even hate NoB. It's just wayyyyyy out of the league of the rest of the band's discography. Like you said, it's an album of a bunch of youngin's trying to sound like Iron Maiden. Not bad, but not nearly indicative of what was to come.

I'll have to sit down sometime soon and really think over what my exact rankings for Fate's discography is now. I will say that the best place for most people to start now is hands down Live Over Europe. That right there is an live album on par with the likes of Alive in Athens or Live After Death/Rock In Rio. It's a massive lexicon of highlights over the entire Ray Alder era in a more unified sound to match where the band is now.

DIADL, on the other hand, has one epic song (AYIM), three great songs (Further, I Am and Black) and a bunch of good to very good songs.  There's nothing on TOF that even comes close to AYIM, and I probably prefer it to any individual piece on APSOG.

I love And Yet It Moves, but there's at least two or three tracks on TOF I'd rank over it (From the Rooftops, The Light & Shade of Things, White Flag). I'd probably say And Yet It Moves is comparable to The Ghosts of Home for me. Both are stellar epics, but I don't go back to them as often as some of the other more recent material.

[MoraWintersoul]

I love And Yet It Moves, but there's at least two or three tracks on TOF I'd rank over it (From the Rooftops, The Light & Shade of Things, White Flag). I'd probably say And Yet It Moves is comparable to The Ghosts of Home for me. Both are stellar epics, but I don't go back to them as often as some of the other more recent material.

This is me. The Ghosts of Home is really good but it's absolutely overshadowed by Light and Shade.

I don't understand where and what happened to the love for FWX? when it came out, a lot of fans LOVED it like myself. Many even found it better than Disconnected and/or APSOG. I remember some comments saying it was their best album since Inside Out and/or Parallels.

But now? it seems to be the forgotten record. I think it's filled with good songs, much like Parallels or Perfect Symmetry in some ways.

I love FWX too! It is definitely not mentioned enough, possibly because it comes at the tail end of a very strong era for Fates and other albums get the mentions, and DIADL on the other end always sparked a lot of discussion in the recent years because it was a comeback album, so FWX just gets the shaft discussion-wise. But it has some extremely cool songs.

[bosk1]

I tried Fates several times in the '90s and early '00s, and they never clicked with me.  I liked an odd song here or there, but as as whole, nothing really jumped out at me.  Got their hits album right before seeing them on tour with QR and DT, and had pretty much the same reaction I always had. 

A friend subsequently made me a copy of FWX to check out, and I really liked it--much more than the previous material.  And I was also gaining more exposure to Ray's voice in Redemption, and really liked his work with them on Snowfall and This Mortal Coil.  The same friend who gave me the copy of FWX pursuaded me to pick up the special edition re-release of Parallels, and my reaction was similar to when I had previously heard it:  A few tracks that I kind of liked, but the album still just didn't grab me. 

I bought Darkness and loved it.  Bought Theories, and it was my album of the year.  LOVE that album. 

So, for me, I'm just not a fan of the pre-FWX albums I have heard.  Nothing against them.  But the newer albums are just what has clicked with me.  And I guess I am the anomaly that has FWX as the album that made the band click with me.

[Mister Gold]

I tried Fates several times in the '90s and early '00s, and they never clicked with me.  I liked an odd song here or there, but as as whole, nothing really jumped out at me.  Got their hits album right before seeing them on tour with QR and DT, and had pretty much the same reaction I always had. 

A friend subsequently made me a copy of FWX to check out, and I really liked it--much more than the previous material.  And I was also gaining more exposure to Ray's voice in Redemption, and really liked his work with them on Snowfall and This Mortal Coil.  The same friend who gave me the copy of FWX pursuaded me to pick up the special edition re-release of Parallels, and my reaction was similar to when I had previously heard it:  A few tracks that I kind of liked, but the album still just didn't grab me. 

I bought Darkness and loved it.  Bought Theories, and it was my album of the year.  LOVE that album. 

So, for me, I'm just not a fan of the pre-FWX albums I have heard.  Nothing against them.  But the newer albums are just what has clicked with me.  And I guess I am the anomaly that has FWX as the album that made the band click with me.

Actually, I feel like I should ask; have you listened to Live Over Europe, Bosk? The band does a stellar job cataloguing the whole of the Ray Alder era from start to finish and making them all feel and sound more in line with the modern sound they have now. Hell, I wish the band would re-record all of No Exit with this lineup, because the two tracks they played on that live album sound monstrous there.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I have it, and I really like it.  And in that vein, I really like their treatment of the older material.  I think the songs I haven't really cared for in the past are elevated quite a bit. 

[Samsara]

re: older era (Alder) Fates songs being done now

I totally like what they've done with the No Exit material. I think Ray does what he can do, and makes it sound great by not trying to be the singer that he was. He sings it lower, goes as far up as he can, and really does an excellent job. Silent Cries was good, Acquiescence (I probably botched the spelling) was good too.

Some songs may not work as well, but I think Fates has done a real good job picking things that Ray can sing well that the crowd wants to hear.

I mean, I love the original version of Ivory Gate of Dreams. Just how Ray sang it. But if it still works and sounds good lowered, by all means, I'm glad they did. Some bands and songs it doesn't work (Tesla and "Edison's Medicine" comes to mind). But those bands whose songs do - I'm happy they still play them.

[pg1067]

Acquiescence (I probably botched the spelling)

Nope.  You nailed it.

And I completely agree.  They've done a great job picking the right songs and adjusting the vocal lines to account for Ray being 30+ years older.  I'd WAY rather hear a song that has been thoughtfully re-arranged so that it can be sung on key than a singer try to sing the original arrangement and fail 6+ times out of 10.  The key is to work it out ahead of time, which is what Fates seems to have done.

[bosk1]

Me too--and while this may not be "fair," that is especially true in a case like this where I didn't really care for Ray's higher register anyway.  I think he sounds fantastic when he is NOT going for that in-the-stratosphere falsetto, but don't like his really high stuff.  He may have lost some range, but I feel like his voice has so much more depth, power, and emotion now.  Kinda how I feel about Michael Sweet in Stryper.

[goo-goo]

Jim Matheos just posted a chart and it's done. Record is off to being mastered (already mixed). Can't wait for this one. Hoping for a fall release.

[Mister Gold]

re: older era (Alder) Fates songs being done now

I totally like what they've done with the No Exit material. I think Ray does what he can do, and makes it sound great by not trying to be the singer that he was. He sings it lower, goes as far up as he can, and really does an excellent job. Silent Cries was good, Acquiescence (I probably botched the spelling) was good too.

Some songs may not work as well, but I think Fates has done a real good job picking things that Ray can sing well that the crowd wants to hear.

I mean, I love the original version of Ivory Gate of Dreams. Just how Ray sang it. But if it still works and sounds good lowered, by all means, I'm glad they did. Some bands and songs it doesn't work (Tesla and "Edison's Medicine" comes to mind). But those bands whose songs do - I'm happy they still play them.

Yeah, Ray and the band have done a terrific job in figuring out which songs can be adjusted to suit his voice and still sound great live. It's a very impressive situation to see these guys take what would be seen as a concrete negative for most any other band and instead make it into a positive. That's a genuinely impressive skill to have.

Jim Matheos just posted a chart and it's done. Record is off to being mastered (already mixed). Can't wait for this one. Hoping for a fall release.

Late Summer or early Fall would be perfect! Can't wait to hear this! I saw Michael Abdow mention on Instagram awhile back that he'd recorded multiple solos for the Fates album, but I have no clue if he's contributed anything to the songwriting or not. Still I'm excited to hear more of him on the album.

[gazinwales]

Finally got round to picking up Live in Europe, got the triple vinyl/2CD set for a steal at $40 Australian, around $27US inc shipping
TBH I wasn't going to bother with it, but the positive feedback in this feed encouraged me.
Going to listen later today and will report back with comments in due course.

[MoraWintersoul]

Somebody help me, I'm too psyched for this album.

[bosk1]

Finally got round to picking up Live in Europe, got the triple vinyl/2CD set for a steal at $40 Australian, around $27US inc shipping
TBH I wasn't going to bother with it, but the positive feedback in this feed encouraged me.
Going to listen later today and will report back with comments in due course.

Not sure whether or not this is helpful to you:  As someone who is NOT a "general fan of FW" through their entire history, I think this is a fantastic live album.  It is hard to image a live package that could be much better for my tastes.  The set list itself is really good, and any minor quibbles I have with it are irrelevant, because songs I would not have thought to include are performed so well that I am now a fan of those songs.  Pretty much every track is a "must listen" for me, even songs I previously didn't care for or was not even aware of.