Author Topic: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around  (Read 307722 times)

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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1820 on: October 03, 2019, 11:03:41 AM »
Coming up with a top 5 would be awfully difficult -- especially since, for me, there's absolutely no question that APSOG and TIGOD would be on it.  I said in the DT "league" thread recently that comparing SDOIT (the song) to just about any other DT song is a bit like comparing Rush's Moving Pictures to The Trees.  It's not really a fair comparison, so I'll try and come up with a top 5, excluding APSOG and TIGOD:

1. And Yet It Moves
2. Static Acts
3. Traveler in Time
4. At Fate's Hands
5. Monument

I'm not sure about the order, and honestly, tomorrow I might come up with a completely different top 5 (The Apparition, Fata Morgana, Part of the Machine, Leave the Past Behind, Life in Still Water, Outside Looking In, Pale Fire, Shelter Me, Down to the Wire, Face the Fear, One, Pieces of Me, Another Perfect Day, I Am, Into the Black and Falling Further would all be worthy candidates for a top 5/10).
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Offline emtee

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1821 on: October 03, 2019, 11:19:46 AM »
FWX and Disconnected are my 2 faves.

Love Wish.

Offline Bentower

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1822 on: October 03, 2019, 12:25:02 PM »
Pretty neat that Ray calls it 'APSOG'. :) Parts VI ("I know that I don't know you, etc.") & XII of that would make my top 5.
I consider Still Remains their crowning jewel.
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Offline 425

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1823 on: October 03, 2019, 02:56:34 PM »
Hey Fates Warning fans, I've been really getting into Theories of Flight recently (yes, because of roulette staple The Light and Shade of Things), and I was wondering what the general advice was on where to go next in exploring their stuff. They have a pretty big discography with what seems like a number of different albums that are held in pretty high esteem, and it leaves me a little uncertain about where to dig in next.

The only thing is that, unless there's some really compelling reason not to, I think I'd like to stay in the Ray Alder era for now, and check out the John Arch stuff later on.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1824 on: October 03, 2019, 03:02:47 PM »
If you want something that sounds very close to Theories in style, then Darkness in a different light is your best bet

But if you want to open it up a little, I would recommend my two favorite FW albums

1. Pleasant shade of grey
2. Perfect symmetry

Both are Ray Alder.

Parallels is also a very well liked album. Honestly, there's no Alder era album I don't like, so you can almost pick anything and get something out of it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:10:49 PM by Phoenix87x »

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1825 on: October 03, 2019, 06:18:26 PM »
If you want something that sounds very close to Theories in style, then Darkness in a different light is your best bet

But if you want to open it up a little, I would recommend my two favorite FW albums

1. Pleasant shade of grey
2. Perfect symmetry

Both are Ray Alder.

Parallels is also a very well liked album. Honestly, there's no Alder era album I don't like, so you can almost pick anything and get something out of it.

I agree with all of this.

I would say that Darkness is most similar to Theories, but maybe a bit heavier/darker (I prefer Darkness by a pretty wide margin).

Disconnected and FWX are pretty similar.  Both are brooding and atmospheric.  For me, these are at the bottom of the list of Ray Alder albums.

Parallels and Inside Out are fairly similar.  FW's most commercial sounding albums, but both have a good sprinkling of prog, and both are excellent.

No Exit is very Raw - not dissimilar to Warning/Mindcrime era Queensryche.  This album contains the band's only side-long epic, The Ivory Gate of Dreams, which is structurally similar to Rush's 2112, but heavier and a bit more proggy.

Perfect Symmetry is next level above No Exit.  They got a new, more technically skilled drummer, and the album is much more proggy.  Probably my second favorite after APSOG.

A Pleasant Shade of Gray is probably most dissimilar to the rest of the catalog.  It's technically one 54 minute song broken into 12 tracks,  The majority of opinions I've heard absolutely love it, with a small, but not insignificant, minority who don't really care for it.  Not a lot of middle of the road opinions.  It took me a little while to get into it, but I could listen to it on a loop for weeks at a time.

I almost forgot the three John Arch albums (Arch was the singer on the first three, mid-80s albums, Night on Brocken, The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian).  Arch is a very different type of singer (and was the primary lyricist when he was in the band and was a very different lyricist from Jim Matheos), and there's a decent chunk of the fan base that doesn't really care for Arch's singing.  Personally, I think Alder is vastly superior in every way, but I don't dislike the Arch albums.

I think Guardian is the favorite Arch era album of a majority of fans.  It's the last Arch album and, not surprisingly, probably the most mature.  Brocken is the debut.  It's VERY raw and kind of a poor man's Iron Maiden clone.  Damnation is the only song that really gets any mention.  Spectre is, for me, hit or miss.  Traveler in Time and The Apparition are two of my three favorite Arch era songs.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 11:17:12 AM by pg1067 »
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Offline Lethean

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1826 on: October 03, 2019, 07:23:35 PM »
pgilovegraceunderpressure1067 did a great job breaking down the albums. :)

I absolutely love Disconnected and FWX so I disagree that they're at the bottom of the Ray albums.  But like Phoenix said, you really just can't go wrong.

My favorite is A Pleasant of Gray; after that probably Disconnected.  But they're all great.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1827 on: October 03, 2019, 10:17:28 PM »
My favorite is A Pleasant of Gray; after that probably Disconnected.  But they're all great.

These are two of my favorites too! The last two are really good too, I really like how tight this lineup sounds with Bobby on drums.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1828 on: October 04, 2019, 02:02:32 AM »
I absolutely love Disconnected and FWX so I disagree that they're at the bottom of the Ray albums.  But like Phoenix said, you really just can't go wrong.

My favorite is A Pleasant of Gray; after that probably Disconnected.  But they're all great.
Same here, and as we're on the DT board, it's interesting to note that Kevin Moore played keyboards on APSOG and Disconnected. So if you wanna hear more soulful prog keys from the guy who gave you Surrounded...  :yarr

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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1829 on: October 04, 2019, 03:55:40 AM »
I absolutely love Disconnected and FWX so I disagree that they're at the bottom of the Ray albums.  But like Phoenix said, you really just can't go wrong.

My favorite is A Pleasant of Gray; after that probably Disconnected.  But they're all great.
Same here, and as we're on the DT board, it's interesting to note that Kevin Moore played keyboards on APSOG and Disconnected. So if you wanna hear more soulful prog keys from the guy who gave you Surrounded...  :yarr
as far as I can remember, James worked with them too (and James will always get the  :yarr from me)
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1830 on: October 04, 2019, 09:07:12 AM »
as far as I can remember, James worked with them too (and James will always get the  :yarr from me)
You remember correctly, he sang backing vocs on one of the songs on Parallels!  :yarr

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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1831 on: October 04, 2019, 10:47:21 AM »
pgilovegraceunderpressure1067

Watch it there, bud!  :D


I absolutely love Disconnected and FWX so I disagree that they're at the bottom of the Ray albums.  But like Phoenix said, you really just can't go wrong.

My favorite is A Pleasant of Gray; after that probably Disconnected.  But they're all great.
Same here, and as we're on the DT board, it's interesting to note that Kevin Moore played keyboards on APSOG and Disconnected. So if you wanna hear more soulful prog keys from the guy who gave you Surrounded...  :yarr
as far as I can remember, James worked with them too (and James will always get the  :yarr from me)

This is actually a bit of an interesting tidbit.  JLB sang background vocals on the song "Life in Still Water" on FW's Oct. 1991 album, Parallels.  At that point, he had yet to perform (publicly) with DT or appear on any DT recording, but he was still credited as being a member of "Dream Theatre."  DT reciprocated this typo by thanking "Fatez Warning" in the liner notes for I&W.
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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1832 on: October 04, 2019, 11:02:56 AM »
I honestly have never been able to notice James on Life in Still Water.

Almost like not really noticing Janelle Monae on the fun. track "We Are Young ft. Janelle Monae."

anyway, I did a React To to The Prog Report FW Top 5 List

http://allmediareviews.blogspot.com/2019/10/react-to-prog-reports-top-5-fates.html

1 A Pleasant Shade of Gray
2. Still Remains
3. The Light and Shade of Things
4. The Ivory Gate of Dreams
5. Epitaph

Honorable Mentions:
Damnation
The Apparition
Traveler in Time
Fata Morgana
Prelude to Ruin
Guardian
Nothing Left to Say
Through Different Eyes
Chasing Time
The Eleventh Hour
Face the Fear
Outside Looking In
Something for Nothing
So
Pieces of Me
Another Perfect Day
Heal Me
Left Here
Wish
Handful of Doubt
Ghosts of Home
From the Rooftops
Seven Stars

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1833 on: October 04, 2019, 11:14:25 AM »
I honestly have never been able to notice James on Life in Still Water.

Nor have I.

And nothing from DIADL in your honorable mentions list?!
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline 425

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1834 on: October 04, 2019, 11:31:18 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts, y'all, especially pg for the nice detailed writeup. Based on what people said (and the fact that it's one of the cheapest ones on Amazon), I think I'm going to order Perfect Symmetry and then see where I want to go from there.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Lethean

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1835 on: October 04, 2019, 11:10:44 PM »
pgilovegraceunderpressure1067

Watch it there, bud!  :D


What do you mean?  :angel:

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1836 on: October 07, 2019, 08:18:10 AM »
I honestly have never been able to notice James on Life in Still Water.

Nor have I.
Listen to him during BLIIIINDEEED BYYY and WHEEEEN YOOOOU'RE NOOT parts of the chorus.

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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1837 on: October 07, 2019, 11:39:34 AM »
I honestly have never been able to notice James on Life in Still Water.

Nor have I.
Listen to him during BLIIIINDEEED BYYY and WHEEEEN YOOOOU'RE NOOT parts of the chorus.

I know where he's supposedly singing.  I just can't pick out a second voice beyond Ray's multitracked voice.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1838 on: October 07, 2019, 11:41:07 AM »
I never had a clue he was on it until I read he was. Even now, I have to listen super closely to pick it out.

Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1839 on: October 07, 2019, 11:33:50 PM »
I honestly have never been able to notice James on Life in Still Water.

Nor have I.

And nothing from DIADL in your honorable mentions list?!

I could put Firefly in there, but it's weird how that album, Night on Brocken, and Inside Out I see so far below the rest of their catalog. I probably should revisit Darkness to see if I may enjoy it now, 6 years later. I always felt like it was rushed-album and most of Jim's best ideas ended on Sympathetic Resonance, rather than it.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1840 on: October 08, 2019, 02:59:05 PM »
Yeah I always found James' inclusion on that song hilarious.  Absolutely pointless.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1841 on: October 08, 2019, 03:09:21 PM »
Yeah I always found James' inclusion on that song hilarious.  Absolutely pointless.

Yeah...a guy who, at the time, was a complete nobody did background vocals that are nearly impossible to discern from those of the band's lead singer.  Kind of interesting how things turned out, though.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1842 on: October 09, 2019, 02:11:59 AM »
Yeah I always found James' inclusion on that song hilarious.  Absolutely pointless.

Yeah...a guy who, at the time, was a complete nobody did background vocals that are nearly impossible to discern from those of the band's lead singer. 
Ray didn't have time to finish the recording/come in for another recording, so they talked to DT and James wrapped it up for them! It really wasn't a "feature".

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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1843 on: October 09, 2019, 05:07:28 AM »
Yeah I always found James' inclusion on that song hilarious.  Absolutely pointless.

Yeah...a guy who, at the time, was a complete nobody did background vocals that are nearly impossible to discern from those of the band's lead singer. 
Ray didn't have time to finish the recording/come in for another recording, so they talked to DT and James wrapped it up for them! It really wasn't a "feature".

That kinda seems more bizarre.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1844 on: October 09, 2019, 07:45:31 AM »
Ray had more pressing matters than finishing a record that aimed at propelling the band to higher echelons of metal? That's crazy.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1845 on: October 09, 2019, 10:24:35 AM »
Yeah I always found James' inclusion on that song hilarious.  Absolutely pointless.

Yeah...a guy who, at the time, was a complete nobody did background vocals that are nearly impossible to discern from those of the band's lead singer. 

Ray didn't have time to finish the recording/come in for another recording, so they talked to DT and James wrapped it up for them! It really wasn't a "feature".

It's for sure accurate that it wasn't a "feature."  As I mentioned, at the time, JLB was a complete nobody, and DT was virtually unknown outside of the greater NYC area.*  I'm awfully skeptical, though, about the statement that Ray didn't have time to finish the recording.  Do you have a source for that?


* - I've told this story a bunch of times in the past, but I first got into FW as a result of a little blurb on MTV at the height of popularity of Queensryche's Operation: Mindcrime (mid-1989) about "bands you might like if you like Queensryche."  They mentioned three bands:  FW, DT and Crimson Glory.  I went out and found No Exit and was immediately hooked, but I never could find anything by DT.  By the time Parallels came out in October 1991, I had all but forgotten about DT, but then I saw the credit in the liner notes, so I started looking again for something by DT.  I never found anything until PMU broke in the summer of 1992.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1846 on: October 10, 2019, 09:53:23 AM »
I'm awfully skeptical, though, about the statement that Ray didn't have time to finish the recording.  Do you have a source for that?
This is quoted on their Wikipedia without a source: "James LaBrie performs harmony vocals on the song "Life in Still Water" due to Ray Alder having to leave Toronto and not having time to finish with the backing vocals. Producer Terry Brown came up with the idea of bringing in LaBrie, as he had just joined Dream Theater and had a similar style." I remember watching someone say this on video - maybe it's one of their documentary-ish videos/interviews with Brian Slagel? I'll try to source this for you over the weekend.

I went through a phase of looking up their interviews/song explanations/other stuff, and I remember getting so offended about how Jim Matheos described that "Eye To Eye" is essentially about how fans look up to musicians and musicians can't reciprocate that feeling  :lol now that I'm older I'm just like... yeah, I see how having fans at all is annoying.

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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1847 on: October 10, 2019, 12:06:14 PM »
I'm awfully skeptical, though, about the statement that Ray didn't have time to finish the recording.  Do you have a source for that?
This is quoted on their Wikipedia without a source: "James LaBrie performs harmony vocals on the song "Life in Still Water" due to Ray Alder having to leave Toronto and not having time to finish with the backing vocals. Producer Terry Brown came up with the idea of bringing in LaBrie, as he had just joined Dream Theater and had a similar style." I remember watching someone say this on video - maybe it's one of their documentary-ish videos/interviews with Brian Slagel? I'll try to source this for you over the weekend.

Are we looking at the same Wikipedia page?  It says, "1991 saw the release of Parallels, which was distributed by Warner.  The album, which started the collaboration with Rush producer Terry Brown, contains more accessible and streamlined songs than in the past, except for tracks such as 'The Eleventh Hour' and 'Life in Still Water'.  Parallels is considered an essential album that 'has influenced a great amount of subsequent musicians' and is possibly the band's most commercially successful record.  James LaBrie (who had just joined Dream Theater) provided guest vocals on the song 'Life in Still Water'."

The page was last updated on Sept. 19.  I'd be very curious to see a video with Brian Slagel discussing this.  He would, obviously, be a good source for this.
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Offline ?

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1848 on: October 10, 2019, 12:08:31 PM »
I'm awfully skeptical, though, about the statement that Ray didn't have time to finish the recording.  Do you have a source for that?
I remember watching someone say this on video - maybe it's one of their documentary-ish videos/interviews with Brian Slagel? I'll try to source this for you over the weekend.
It must've been in the bonus DVD doc that came with the anniversary edition I have. Now I have a good reason to watch it again tomorrow :lol

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1849 on: October 10, 2019, 02:00:07 PM »
Are we looking at the same Wikipedia page?
Are we? I'm looking at this one.

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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1850 on: October 10, 2019, 04:23:49 PM »
I'm awfully skeptical, though, about the statement that Ray didn't have time to finish the recording.  Do you have a source for that?
I remember watching someone say this on video - maybe it's one of their documentary-ish videos/interviews with Brian Slagel? I'll try to source this for you over the weekend.
It must've been in the bonus DVD doc that came with the anniversary edition I have. Now I have a good reason to watch it again tomorrow :lol

I was thinking the same thing (although it won't be tomorrow).


Are we looking at the same Wikipedia page?
Are we? I'm looking at this one.

Ah...I thought you were talking about the page for the band (which is where the bit I quoted came from).  I didn't even notice that on the page for the album.  I like how the "citation needed" comment has been there for 4 1/2 years!

BTW...where does the GIF in your signature come from?
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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1851 on: October 10, 2019, 04:51:02 PM »
Found it.  The discussion of James's involvement starts at 8:03.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ClYTWG-osk&list=PL7voS2JjFDI5g9mqTVC8Q4qBQ6D4-OZLi&index=2
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1852 on: October 10, 2019, 07:27:31 PM »
Went to watch the one clip and ended up watching the entire documentary  :lol  Really good stuff

I wish there was a documentary like that for pleasant shade of grey

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1853 on: October 11, 2019, 09:54:13 AM »
BTW...where does the GIF in your signature come from?
I made it myself! Think it's Ytse Jam on Live in Tokyo. I have a Tumblr full of Dream Theater gifs that I will not link because Tumblr fucked up the quality of the smaller gifs really bad in the last year or so  :lol

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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: The Official Fates Warning thread v. Theories of Flight
« Reply #1854 on: October 11, 2019, 11:02:52 AM »
I think Terry Brown's work with Ray and the band cannot be understated.

Parallels
A Pleasant Shade of Gray
Disconnected