Author Topic: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero  (Read 29926 times)

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Offline Sigz

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #140 on: August 30, 2010, 01:02:58 PM »
AFAIK the property was bought by the group who's trying to put the center there.
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Offline Tuneman

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #141 on: August 30, 2010, 01:31:32 PM »
However, I do support the confiscation of private property in NYC if it is taken in order to build a Chik fil a.  We need one bad.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #142 on: August 30, 2010, 01:33:22 PM »
No.  You already have Roy Rogers.  There is no fast food fried chicken that can compete with that.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #143 on: August 30, 2010, 02:18:53 PM »
No.  You already have Roy Rogers.  There is no fast food fried chicken that can compete with that.

Kramer will be upset that Kenny Rogers Chicken isn't #1.
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Offline icysk8r

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #144 on: August 30, 2010, 07:09:01 PM »
No.  You already have Roy Rogers.  There is no fast food fried chicken that can compete with that.

Kramer will be upset that Kenny Rogers Chicken isn't #1.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #145 on: August 30, 2010, 10:16:22 PM »
I'm from the NY area, whoever asked.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #146 on: August 31, 2010, 07:15:23 AM »
I wouldn't want to be one of the workers building it. I like my family. I think it could get pretty ugly.
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #147 on: August 31, 2010, 07:57:17 AM »
Nah, all the protesters will show up at Ground Zero not knowing it's being built two and a half blocks away.
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Offline soundgarden

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #148 on: August 31, 2010, 09:45:33 AM »
I really hope any one thinking of violent actions against the center really reflect on the irony of what they are about to do.

Violence against this center gives a far greater and far more meaningful victory to the terrorists.

EDIT...as a new yorker, an immigrant, and an athiest (who's family is split between hindus, christians, and muslims) I don't see any reason why these people shouldn't have the freedom to establish this center, as long as it is within the bounds of the law.


Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #149 on: August 31, 2010, 12:30:28 PM »
Nah, all the protesters will show up at Ground Zero not knowing it's being built two and a half blocks away.

I would lol so hard if this happened.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #150 on: August 31, 2010, 07:56:56 PM »
Nah, all the protesters will show up at Ground Zero not knowing it's being built two and a half blocks away.

I would lol so hard if this happened.

It probably will happen.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #151 on: August 31, 2010, 08:03:33 PM »
Nah, all the protesters will show up at Ground Zero not knowing it's being built two and a half blocks away.

I would lol so hard if this happened.

It probably will happen.
I just hope the angry Christians who intend to blow it up make that mistake as well.  Now that would be a fucking LOL and a half. 
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #152 on: August 31, 2010, 08:39:32 PM »
Nah, all the protesters will show up at Ground Zero not knowing it's being built two and a half blocks away.

I would lol so hard if this happened.

It probably will happen.
I just hope the angry Christians who intend to blow it up make that mistake as well.  Now that would be a fucking LOL and a half. 

That will probably happen as well.
space cadet, pull out.
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Offline soundgarden

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #153 on: September 01, 2010, 09:06:06 AM »
Nah, all the protesters will show up at Ground Zero not knowing it's being built two and a half blocks away.

I would lol so hard if this happened.

It probably will happen.
I just hope the angry Christians who intend to blow it up make that mistake as well.  Now that would be a fucking LOL and a half.  

That will probably happen as well.


"what did we just destroy"
"the 9/11 memorial that was being built"

Oh, god, if that happens..... life would be  :hat

Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #154 on: September 01, 2010, 09:09:58 AM »
Wait a minute.  You mean, it wasn't the Islamic Center for Freedom Tower?
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #155 on: September 01, 2010, 09:42:04 AM »
Uh oh!  Not another religious center encroaching on the "Hallowed Ground" of the WTC!

https://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/30/bigot_establishes_ground_zero_church

Quote
Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage?
A pastor who hates Muslims, Mormons and gays will start preaching Sunday. Will mosque opponents speak out?

By Justin Elliott
 
AP

A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."

Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street . A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)

To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"

Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."

In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.

Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.

(An enterprising reporter could no doubt find some Sept. 11 families who are offended by Keller's project, just as an enterprising reporter did in the beginning of the Park51 controversy.)

And if there was ever a case of insensitivity to Sept. 11 -- another frequent argument of the anti-mosque crowd -- consider the fact that Keller has a history of seeking to profit from his various projects (one, called Gold for Souls, involved telling people to simply mail him their gold and jewelry). The 9-11 Christian Center appears to be no different. The project's website features a prominent link telling viewers to "Earn $$$ - Click Here!" It goes to a letter from Keller offering people a 10 percent referral cut on donations from their friends to the 9/11 Christian Center.

To be perfectly clear, Keller should be permitted to build anything he wants as long as it's legal.

But the only logic by which Keller's project would not be horrifying to those who oppose Park51 is if they believe all Muslims, including the progressive Muslim Americans behind Park51, should be treated as suspicious or even in the same category as the Sept. 11 terrorists. If mosque opponents' concerns are truly about sensitivity to the neighborhood around ground zero -- and not about Muslims -- we'll hear them denounce Keller loudly in the coming days.


Interesting how things work, isn't it?  I have no doubts that most of the people (in general, not necessarily on DTF) who are making so much noise about Park 51 will probably have little to say about it.

Offline 73109

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #156 on: September 01, 2010, 09:51:32 AM »
Does he have the right? Yeah

Should he build a church 2 blocks away from ground zero? Yeah

Should he build it as a fuck you to the New York Muslim community? No

Should this man hang from a tree? Yeah

Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #157 on: September 01, 2010, 10:16:26 AM »
Interesting how things work, isn't it?  I have no doubts that most of the people (in general, not necessarily on DTF) who are making so much noise about Park 51 will probably have little to say about it.

Yes and no.  If it continues to be described as this article does, the Christians will object to it just as vocally, but mainly because it detracts from their anti-Muslim agenda.  If they only go by the douche-bag's website, they'll support it.  His website has taken out the most offensive attacks on the more mainstream and really just reads now like a generic Rush Limbaugh page.  I didn't see one reference to Mormons or Mitt Romney.  Most of the people who actually object to the Park51 project would dig the shit out of this guy's anti-Obama, anti-Islam politics.

Personally, I find his website to me amusing as hell. 
Quote

Coming soon to a mosque near your home... men marrying baby girls!  Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #158 on: September 02, 2010, 11:25:07 AM »
See what I mean?  The mere mention that a "Christian" somewhere was doing something unsavory in the vicinity of Ground Zero and the P/R side doesn't get a single post in over 24 hours.  :rollin

Offline zerogravityfat

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #159 on: September 02, 2010, 12:11:19 PM »
Christians are mostly harmless, they are annoying sure, but apart from the super crazies that bomb abortion clinics, they are mild. muslims are far closer to attack in the first mention of pedo prophet they have.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #160 on: September 02, 2010, 12:43:28 PM »
Christians are mostly harmless, they are annoying sure, but apart from the super crazies that bomb abortion clinics, they are mild. muslims are far closer to attack in the first mention of pedo prophet they have.
Perhaps this is true, but something that occurred to me yesterday is that while Muslims do seem to be more defensive about their religion, they also seem to be more respectful of others.  While doing a bit of research about their "pedophile prophet," I noticed that anytime there was a reference to Moses or Jesus, there's always a blessing to follow.  May Allah continue to bless himPeace & Blessings of Allah be upon Him, etc.  It sure seems to me that they're a helluva lot more respectful to the figures of other religions than what they receive.  I've never talked to a Christian who doesn't have a seething contempt for "the pedophile Mohammad."  Hell, most Christians can't even tolerate other Christians more than a little removed from their own denomination. 

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #161 on: September 02, 2010, 12:48:19 PM »
That's because it's all a part of their religion. Their religion claims Jesus, and Mary and so forth are all blessed and so forth. They'd be insulting themselves, in a sense, if they didn't do that.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #162 on: September 02, 2010, 06:14:14 PM »
Since when is Mohammad a pedophile? I've honestly never heard someone describe him in that way.

Is it some random reference to the fact that people married younger back then? Because if it is, then it's a stupid argument, because every married younger women back then, including Christians, etc.
space cadet, pull out.
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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #163 on: September 02, 2010, 08:07:07 PM »
Quad, you should look up the definition of a pedo prophet.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #164 on: September 02, 2010, 08:17:54 PM »
It's generally believed that Aisha was 6 at the time of her betrothal to Mohammad, and 9 when the marriage was consummated.  There are also reasons to be skeptical of that (welcome to the wonderful world of scripture).  Regardless, it seems to me that in that era, 9 would have been A-OK.  Just another soundbite, if you ask me. 
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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #165 on: September 02, 2010, 08:19:12 PM »
It's generally believed that Aisha was 6 at the time of her betrothal to Mohammad, and 9 when the marriage was consummated.  There are also reasons to be skeptical of that (welcome to the wonderful world of scripture).  Regardless, it seems to me that in that era, 9 would have been A-OK.  Just another soundbite, if you ask me. 


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Offline 73109

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #166 on: September 02, 2010, 08:22:05 PM »
:lol

Offline emindead

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #167 on: September 02, 2010, 10:10:02 PM »
The 'Ground-Zero Mosque' and Grand Staircase Escalante

Quote
With no end in sight, the controversy surrounding the so-called ground-zero mosque continues to bring out the worst in all of us. As the controversy continues, I'm struck by a parallel between this proposed mosque and another American monument established in 1996.

Background

Almost 15 years ago, President Bill Clinton designated a large expanse of land in Utah as the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. Seen largely as a political ploy to win favor among voting environmentalists, the designation of this national monument immediately halted business development in the area, including a proposed coal mine, and stifled Utah's ability to make use of lands designated to help pay for the state's school system.

Creation of the monument also sparked a conflict between local county officials and the federal Bureau of Land Management over which authorities have jurisdiction over the dirt roads throughout the monument. This controversy continues to this day and is quite emblematic of the frustration felt by many of us in the more rural western United States over BLM practices and fair use of what we see as "our own land."

Make no mistake: these matters are conflicts of law with no easy solutions. The controversy over Grand Staircase Escalante is very much alive in Utah today, with local ranchers and miners still angry about what they see as federal usurpation of important economic resources, and local environmental activists equally as passionate in their support of the monument. However, we must pause to note that this issue no longer has a place on the national stage.

Keep reading...

Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #168 on: September 02, 2010, 10:30:14 PM »
The 'Ground-Zero Mosque' and Grand Staircase Escalante

Quote
With no end in sight, the controversy surrounding the so-called ground-zero mosque continues to bring out the worst in all of us. As the controversy continues, I'm struck by a parallel between this proposed mosque and another American monument established in 1996.

Background

Almost 15 years ago, President Bill Clinton designated a large expanse of land in Utah as the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. Seen largely as a political ploy to win favor among voting environmentalists, the designation of this national monument immediately halted business development in the area, including a proposed coal mine, and stifled Utah's ability to make use of lands designated to help pay for the state's school system.

Creation of the monument also sparked a conflict between local county officials and the federal Bureau of Land Management over which authorities have jurisdiction over the dirt roads throughout the monument. This controversy continues to this day and is quite emblematic of the frustration felt by many of us in the more rural western United States over BLM practices and fair use of what we see as "our own land."

Make no mistake: these matters are conflicts of law with no easy solutions. The controversy over Grand Staircase Escalante is very much alive in Utah today, with local ranchers and miners still angry about what they see as federal usurpation of important economic resources, and local environmental activists equally as passionate in their support of the monument. However, we must pause to note that this issue no longer has a place on the national stage.

Keep reading...

A few issues I might have with it.  For one, I thought a majority of New Yorkers opposed the Mosque

More to his point, though, I'm not sure the two cases are very similar.  For one, there could actually be a reasonable interstate commerce rationale behind the Utah situation.  I'm not familiar with it, but I can certainly understand situations where Uncle Sammy might have some say-so in such an area.  Generally I tend to side with the state if it's inhabitants are stupid enough to want to destroy their own backyard, but I won't automatically rule out federal intervention.  And as for the center itself,  while I as an outsider don't have any legal place to intervene, if the people of another state wish to do something that I think pretty plainly trounces the law of the land, I have no problem bitching about it.  The author speaks of pundits creating controversy.  While I often find that an annoying occurrence, I also recognize that often times the controversy is necessary.  If the upstanding and enlightened folk in South Carolina decide to enact a law that makes it legal to hang any Croatians on the third Wednesday of every month, would you suggest that people from other states should butt out and mind their own business?  If the New Yorkers find a legal method of preventing it, then I'll just write them off as silly and childish and go on with my continued disgust for the masses.  If they seek to prevent a legal act by any means necessary, then pundits should be stirring things up and people should be whining about it. 
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Offline soundgarden

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #169 on: September 03, 2010, 10:27:21 AM »
The 'Ground-Zero Mosque' and Grand Staircase Escalante

Quote
With no end in sight, the controversy surrounding the so-called ground-zero mosque continues to bring out the worst in all of us. As the controversy continues, I'm struck by a parallel between this proposed mosque and another American monument established in 1996.

Background

Almost 15 years ago, President Bill Clinton designated a large expanse of land in Utah as the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. Seen largely as a political ploy to win favor among voting environmentalists, the designation of this national monument immediately halted business development in the area, including a proposed coal mine, and stifled Utah's ability to make use of lands designated to help pay for the state's school system.

Creation of the monument also sparked a conflict between local county officials and the federal Bureau of Land Management over which authorities have jurisdiction over the dirt roads throughout the monument. This controversy continues to this day and is quite emblematic of the frustration felt by many of us in the more rural western United States over BLM practices and fair use of what we see as "our own land."

Make no mistake: these matters are conflicts of law with no easy solutions. The controversy over Grand Staircase Escalante is very much alive in Utah today, with local ranchers and miners still angry about what they see as federal usurpation of important economic resources, and local environmental activists equally as passionate in their support of the monument. However, we must pause to note that this issue no longer has a place on the national stage.

Keep reading...

A few issues I might have with it.  For one, I thought a majority of New Yorkers opposed the Mosque



Pay special attention to the very last graph.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #170 on: September 03, 2010, 10:35:36 AM »
Is there a parallel being drawn between lack of extended education and potential for racism?  Not being a dick, but honestly not certain if that is or is not the implied idea with that last graph.

Offline soundgarden

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #171 on: September 03, 2010, 10:42:50 AM »
Is there a parallel being drawn between lack of extended education and potential for racism? 

Wait, you wouldn't agree with that regardless of the graph? 

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #172 on: September 03, 2010, 11:01:58 AM »
That last graph made me :lol and :\ at the same time. It just goes to show that the uneducated, are...well...uneducated.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #173 on: September 03, 2010, 11:09:49 AM »
Is there a parallel being drawn between lack of extended education and potential for racism?  Not being a dick, but honestly not certain if that is or is not the implied idea with that last graph.
I don't think it's a potential for racism exactly.  Racist tendencies will be present in the entire group.  The difference is that as intellect increases, so does the ability to better see the nuances.  In this case, I suspect the more educated are more able to say "yeah, it sucks, but denying them would be even worse."  The dipshit doesn't see anything but his own narrow point of view in stark black & white.  The educated will see the whole picture including the shades of gray.  I'd simply view it as shallow reasoning vs. complex thought. 
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Islamic community center to go up near New York's ground zero
« Reply #174 on: September 03, 2010, 03:23:46 PM »
I would say even more than reasoning and complex thought, education simply exposes you to a lot of different ideas, and it shows you that what you think as the right thing is not necessarily the only option, and that the other options can equally as valid to other people.

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